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#1 renamerusk

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 09:29 AM

The City's places, streets, bridges,landmarks, etc: What makes sense and what does not in a name? 

 

To open discussion - Lancaster Avenue west of downtown.



#2 renamerusk

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 09:50 AM

 

It sort of feels like the parts of downtown that aren't Sundance are searching for an identity of their own.

 

I'll map it later, but here's what I'd have in mind in terms of districts:


- Sundance Square (existent)  
- Flatiron (suggested)
- Lancaster Corridor (in the works)
- Justice 
- Transit Center 
- Burnett 
- Upper Westside (existent...sort of) 

- Trinity Uptown (currently developing) 

- Summit 
- Sunset Terrace (existent, but not underdeveloped) 

 

 

What makes sense and what does not - change or remain the same?

 

Does Not Make Sense/change: Lancaster Avenue- from Jones Street to Montgomery Street. 

 

Instead of Lancaster Avenue, and as a way to emphasize the importance of this corridor that links Downtown to the Art/Exhibition District, I advocate for a change in name.  Lancaster to be known as The Avenue Fort Worth.  How does that appeal?



#3 RD Milhollin

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 10:41 AM

Texas and Pacific Plaza. Perhaps one day the semi-paved parking lot in front of the iconic station will be developed into a public place along the lines of Sundance Square.



#4 Dismuke

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 10:43 AM

For naming the district - what is the single most defining characteristic and obvious focal point of the area?  Obviously the massive T&P complex - the skyscraper depot, the freight warehouse and the post office that was built as part of the complex.    So my thought is to name it after the T&P.  Something along the lines of "T&P District" with signage based on the old T&P logo.

 

An alternative I don't like as much would be to revive the name "Hell's Half Acre" and move it south a few blocks.   Or one could call it the "South End"   But I think T&P is the most appropriate.  It ties in with the area's history - and, for people new to the area who will have to learn a geographic name whatever it might be, it introduces them to and gives them an every day connection to the city's history.

 

As for renaming Lancaster - I generally do not like the practice of renaming streets.  First it is an expense and a major inconvenience for a lot of people in that the city has to come up with new street signs and residents and businesses end up having to replace stationary, advertising and advise everyone they do ongoing business with of the change.  It also creates confusion for people from out of town who might rely on maps that are not that old but now out of date.   And, in this case, it is even more disruptive because Lancaster is a very long street - basically spanning the city from its eastern boundary to the Cultural District.  Having a street where it changes from one name to another and then back again is confusing to people.   Plus many people are likely to just continue calling the street by the old name - which leads to confusion by newer people who only know it by the new name.


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#5 Dismuke

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 10:47 AM

Texas and Pacific Plaza. Perhaps one day the semi-paved parking lot in front of the iconic station will be developed into a public place along the lines of Sundance Square.

 

I suggested T&P - but Texas and Pacific would certainly accomplish the same purpose and might be easier to understand.  Sometimes when people pronounce letters, especially if they are talking on the phone, they misunderstand them to a letter that sounds similar.  "B" and "D" are two common examples.  And "T&P" could also be misunderstood in verbal communication as being "TNP."


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#6 renamerusk

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 12:22 PM

.... So my thought is to name it after the T&P.  Something along the lines of "T&P District" with signage based on the old T&P logo.....

 

As for renaming Lancaster - I generally do not like the practice of renaming streets.  First it is an expense and a major inconvenience.....

 

 While I agree with you about the Texas & Pacific complex.  However, citing the expense and the inconvenience for reasons to avoid changes to a street are not as insurmountable as one would imagine.  Think about this: Sixth Avenue of New York to Avenue of the Americas; and all that that had to entail.

 

My understanding is that Mr. Lancaster, an employee of the Texas & Pacific Rwy, was somewhat like the modern day Donald Trump that was someone who put his name on streets and towns as the railroad made its way westward.  It is worth arguing whether his self awareness is important today.  Locally, Dallas has recently renamed major corridors: George W. Bush Expressway (Central Express) Riverfront, Cesar Chavez, Martin Luther King come immediately to mind.

 

While we must take caution in naming parks or streets for individuals, geographical and districts names can be helpful for tourists and neighborhoods. 

 

I like Main Street for downtown, but would like a new name for Main Street as it crosses through the Near South and the Near North (Stockyards).

 

Why is there a street named "Beach" in Fort Worth?



#7 JBB

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 01:03 PM

I lucked out on finding anything on Google, but I would say there's a pretty good chance it's named after a person or family.

#8 Jeriat

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 02:27 PM

Glad you started this topic. 

I've made some changes to what I'd name these districts. I'll get to it a lil' later...


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#9 Dismuke

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 04:36 PM

I wasn't aware that Dallas renamed Central Expressway.  I think that is terrible for reasons I will get to in a moment.  And to name it after George W. Bush in particular is downright crazy given that there is already a President George Bush Tollway.  That is going to be really helpful for people from out of town or even for locals when someone mentions that a place is located on "the George Bush." 

 

Also, I personally don't like naming streets after politicians of any stripe.  Maybe I will make an exception when they are dead for a lengthy period and become historical figures. But naming a street after a politician of recent decades - I don't care who the politician is, there are going to be plenty of people who will have, shall we say, a less than favorable opinion of the person.  Everybody has to use the roadways - so I see no need to politicize the naming of them.

 

My biggest objection to changing street names is that I consider it to be a senseless destruction of history.  One may argue over the virtues of Mr.Lancaster who has been dead for decades and whether or not he was worthy of having a street named after him way back when.  But, of the hundreds of thousands of people who have become familiar with that street in one respect or another over the decades, I am sure that only a fraction of a percent ever knew or even ever wondered who it was named after.  Lancaster has always been a major thoroughfare (most of it was part of the old Bankhead Highway and later Highway 80) and it has a rich history not just in Fort Worth but in the lives of the many people over the years who lived and worked near it and traveled it.  When someone discovers that their great grandparents once lived or worked on East Lancaster they immediately have a point of reference and contemporary connection to their lives even if the original neighborhood has long since been demolished. Over the years, the name of that street has become much more than just an honor somebody decided to give to a certain Mr. Lancaster.  The street itself has a heritage - and the name that the street has been known by is part of that heritage.   And, if one does become curious as to the origin of the name and decides to look it up, then one learns a bit about the city's history and the level of importance that the railroad once had.

 

It is not possible to preserve everything from the past. But it costs nothing to keep street names intact.  It is not uncommon for entire neighborhoods that were once an important part of a city to be almost if not completely lost in terms of buildings and homes.  For example, The Cedars in Dallas.  But, in the older parts of town, the street names are, for the most part, the same as they were 100 years ago.  And if you read about someone who lived or a business that once existed at a certain address, you can usually still find without difficulty the exact location even if it is now just a parking lot or a modern office building. You can still walk the same streets they did and see street signs with names that they would have recognized.   It is a connection that we have to generations of people who have, in some way, been part of the city who have come and gone - and, if the street names remain the same, they will be a common connection that people whose parents haven't even been born yet will have with us long after we are gone. 

 

To the degree we rename streets we disrupt all that.  If we wish to honor someone by naming a street after them, then do so with a brand new street that, over time, will have its own unique history.

 

As for Central Expressway being renamed - that is not only a confusing inconvenience it is a historical crime.  There is a reason it is called Central Expressway - it follows the old route of the old Houston & Texas Central Railroad which helped put Dallas on the map when it came through in the late 1860s.  A lot of people and businesses that would have a major impact on the city in decades to come came to Dallas as a result of that railroad.  There are actually a few spots south of Downtown where tracks still exist.  But the most visible connection Dallas has to that aspect of its history is in the route and name of Central Expressway.   Why take that away?  Beyond that, regardless of what name they gave it when it opened in 1948, Central Expressway was among the very first freeways of its kind in the United States and had a major impact on how our region developed in the postwar decades. The freeway itself is a major part of Dallas history.  It would have been insane to preserve the obsolete 1948 original roadway.  But to rename it something else is a crime against the freeway's heritage and our area's heritage. If they wanted to name something after George W Bush, there's all sorts of interchanges and bridges being built or which do not already have names that they could have used to bestow the honor.


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#10 Dismuke

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 05:52 PM

Re:  the renaming of Central Expressway.

 

Turns out that they have renamed it - and, at the same time, they haven't renamed it.

 

http://www.dallasobs...rs-desk-7106256

 

So it is officially still called Central Expressway for its entire length.  But between Knox-Henderson and Northwest Highway it is, by proclamation of the State Legislature and the former governor, also called George W Bush Expressway.  But any signs that state the name must be privately funded.

 

Thankfully they haven't gotten rid of the historic name.  But what on earth is the point??????   If the objective is to find a way to honor a former president or anybody else, that is an utterly stupid way to do so.   So the freeway is going to be Central and then turn into George W. Bush and then a few moments down the road turn back to Central - but it really was Central all along.   Stupid.  Even as symbolism it is stupid.   Why not instead just name the Mockingbird Lane bridge over the freeway the George W. Bush Overpass and have a fancy sign saying so?


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#11 John T Roberts

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 09:01 PM

You raise some good points about street renaming.  For the record, Lancaster used to be North and Front Streets through downtown before it was renamed Lancaster Avenue.



#12 renamerusk

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:03 AM

RE: Post #9 -

 

It is hard to find anything to disagree with the salient points that have been raised.

 

I too believe that a significant time of vetting should have past before a honorarium is bestowed upon an individual, though there can be exceptions.

 

I feel that Fort Worth should actually have a grand corridor; and so to have such a signature corridor, I chose as the ideal  candidate the western portion of Lancaster Avenue between Downtown and the Cultural District. Along its path lies an unparalleled  collection of the city's landmarks.

 

I would name it The Avenue Fort Worth. 



#13 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 05:02 PM

I'm not a big fan of how some streets that have been broken up retain the same name.

 

If there are two unconnected streets that share the same name, one of them should change their name to avoid confusion.

 

One example is Broadway, which is interrupted by I-35 and I-30 (as well as some buildings in the southside), but it's all called the same street. The different segments should be known as different streets IMO.

 

Another example: 3rd street downtown turns into 4th street east of downtown, then 1st street, then Randol Mill. 4th street and 1st street in downtown FW dead end as you head east, but resume somewhere east of downtown on what downtown knows as 3rd street.

 

I might make an exception for Main Street even though it can cause confusion as well.

 

 

 

EDIT: Oops, looks like I'm off topic. Maybe I'll post something on topic later.


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#14 Jeriat

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:30 AM

I was going to go with "Station Square" for the east side district, but then I remembered it's a name of a stage on Sonic Adventure, so I just went with "center" instead. 

 

Downtown%20Districts_zpsura1ulkp.jpg


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#15 RD Milhollin

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 09:33 AM

For an area this size I can't reasonably envision more than 4, maybe 5 "districts". What purpose would such small discreet areas serve? 



#16 Jeriat

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:05 PM

For an area this size I can't reasonably envision more than 4, maybe 5 "districts". What purpose would such small discreet areas serve? 


It basically gives people an idea of where certain landmarks and buildings are.

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#17 beverlyb

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 07:19 PM

I like those names in Post #14.  Maybe combine some of them so there aren't so many.

 

4 and 5 - Landmark Station

 

8 and 9  - Hunter-Burnett Plaza

 

11 and 12 - Sunset Summit



#18 Austin55

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 08:30 PM

For an area this size I can't reasonably envision more than 4, maybe 5 "districts". What purpose would such small discreet areas serve? 

 

The thing is though most of those areas that Jeriat has outlined have a unique identity already. Like Beverly said, a few are perhaps unnecessary, #9 especially, but there is a character and use that each of those have. Sundance is the retail part. Landmark is the energy hub. Uptown and Hillside are the cozy neighborhoods. Flatiron is the convention and hotel driven part. Heritage is the justice and education center. 



#19 Jeriat

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 10:57 PM

I like those names in Post #14.  Maybe combine some of them so there aren't so many.

 

4 and 5 - Landmark Station

 

8 and 9  - Hunter-Burnett Plaza

 

11 and 12 - Sunset Summit

 

... I actually like that. Except, for 11 and 12, I'll just name the entire thing "Summit". 


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#20 Jeriat

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:03 AM

REVISED (with descriptions) 

 

Downtown%20Districts_zpsgeylkq3a.jpg

 

 

1. Heritage District

  • Named for: The general area where Fort Worth was founded. 
  • Primary thoroughfares: Main, Weatherford, Belknap, Henderson 
  • Landmarks/important buildings: The Courthouse, both TCC campuses, Heritage Park 
  • District's identity: History, Education, and Civil 
  • Need for development: 70% (high) 

2. Trinity Uptown (partial) 

  • Named for: The given name of the neighborhood/future development.
  • Primary thoroughfares: Weatherford, Belknap, Samuels 
  • Landmarks/important buildings: 501 Samuels Ave., Pioneer's Rest, The Garvey House   
  • District's identity: Victorian neighborhood with some modern elements. 
  • Need for development: *questionable* 

3. Sundance Square

  • Named for: Given name of the area.
  • Primary thoroughfares: Main, 3rd, 4th, Houston, Throckmorton, Commerce
  • Landmarks/important buildings: The Plaza, Bass Performance Hall, Bass Towers, The Tower, Renaissance Worthington Hotel 
  • District's identity: Entertainment & Shopping 
  • Need for development: 50% (medium) 

4. Landmark District

  • Named for: The former Landmark Tower, its site centralized in the area. 
  • Primary thoroughfares: 6th, 7th, Houston, Commerce, Throckmorton, Taylor
  • Landmarks/important buildings: Fort Worth Club, 777 Main, 1st Christian Church, General Worth Square 
  • District's identity: Business, Energy. 
  • Need for development: 30% (low)

5. Station Center District 

  • Named for: The ITC
  • Primary thoroughfares: Jones, Calhoun, 6th, 7th
  • Landmarks/important buildings: ITC, UTA-Sante Fe campus, Ashton Depot
  • District's identity: Transit 
  • Need for development: 100% (SORELY needed) 

6. Flatiron District

  • Named for: The Flatiron
  • Primary thoroughfares: 9th, Houston, Throckmorton, Commerce 
  • Landmarks/important buildings: The Flatiron, Convention Center, Municipal Building, Hyde Park
  • District's identity: Conventions, Bars, and city government 
  • Need to develop: 65% (high)

7. Lancaster Corridor 

  • Named for: Lancaster Avenue 
  • Primary thoroughfares: Lancaster, Commerce, Houston
  • Landmarks/important buildings: Water Gardens, T&P Station/Warehouse, central Post Office, F.W. Omni Hotel 
  • District's identity: ...? 
  • Need for development: 95% (very high)

 

8. Burnett-Hunter District

  • Named for: Burnett Park and Hunter Plaza
  • Primary thoroughfares: West 7th, Henderson, Texas & 10th, Taylor
  • Landmarks/important buildings: Burnett Park, Burnett Plaza, U.S. Courthouse, 1st United Methodist,
  • District's identity: Park and Residential 
  • Need to develop: 80% (very high)

9. The Upper Westside 

  • Named for: Geographical location in terms of downtown... sort of.
  • Primary thoroughfares: West 7th, Summit, Henderson, Texas & 10th
  • Landmarks/important buildings: Pier 1 Imports Building, Masonic Temple 
  • District's identity: Residential (with few office)
  • Need to develop: 65% (high)

10. Summit

  • Named for: Summit Ave.
  • Primary thoroughfares: Summit, Lancaster 
  • Landmarks/important buildings: the remaining Victorian homes, Water Dept. Treatment Facillity. 
  • District's identity: no definitive identity
  • Need to develop: 65% (high)

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#21 JBB

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:18 AM

My only criticism of "Landmark" is that you're naming it after a building that's been gone for nearly a decade and was only referred to by that name in its last 6 or 7 years of its 50 years of existence. And never while it was actually occupied.

#22 Austin55

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 04:53 AM

It's also worth talking about what type of development that each area needs. 

 

Heritage is the civil part of town, don't expect much private development, but some should occur on along the Trinity as part of the TRV. Trinity Uptown is rowhomes and duplexes and will likely remain that way. Sundance's future has been outlined, the west side will likely look like a taller and denser Trinity Uptown. Landmark (domain of XTO) is nearly full, it should be reserved for 30 floor corporate offices, but looks like it's going to get 8 floor parking garages instead. Flatiron is full, could use some minor infill. All these districts are far from full but there is'nt a signifcant amount of room. 

 

Lancaster, Burnett, and Station are the big areas that need focus and reserve of large development. Lancaster's plans seem to be falling mostly into a very mixed use area of 4-5 floor buildings. Station is an empty canvas, It should be reserved for high rise convention hotel development and perhaps some large, 10 story minimum residential development and lots of retail and other TOD. Burnett seems be the logical choice of any future office demand to expand into as room runs out in the core, in the past years we've seen the Carnegie, and in the near future Jetta tower which are expanding downtown's highrise office core further to the west. 



#23 renamerusk

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 06:24 AM

Quite frankly, there seems to be too many districts.  Downtown is a single district. The idea that it has to be carved into multiple districts seems pointless and confusing.  It may be too microscopic IMO.

 

Prompted to suggest that the City needed a signature corridor(s) and signature landmarks, places like 7th Street Bridge, Lancaster Avenue (west) are, IMO, too generic and ought to be branded in a way that they are given an identity.  Begging pardon for the repetition -

 

7th Street Bridge = Van Cliburn Bridge; Lancaster Avenue (west) = Avenue of Fort Worth, Main Street (south side) = ?; Main Street (north side) = ?

 

:)



#24 renamerusk

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 09:16 AM

While downtown is a single district, there is no reason it can't have multiple neighborhoods within its boundaries, as (hopefully) each area will organically take on a unique feel from the others.

 

 

Sort of like "Ten Flags Over Downtown Fort Worth"  :swg: 



#25 Jeriat

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:38 PM

My only criticism of "Landmark" is that you're naming it after a building that's been gone for nearly a decade and was only referred to by that name in its last 6 or 7 years of its 50 years of existence. And never while it was actually occupied.

 

Honestly, that was the best name I could think of that wasn't cheesy (like Sundance Square... which is kinda cheesy when you think about it) or corporate (like naming it "XTO"), so unless maybe there's a person of importance it could be named for, I decided "Landmark" was the best.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just following in other cities district maps, you can see that there are many districts within the neighborhood.

Here's Dallas

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Houston: 
houstondowntownmap.gif

 

Austin (although, I believe this is just planned and not official)
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Toronto
Toronto_WV_downtown_districts_map.png

 

L.A.

dtla%20map.jpg

 

New Orleans

Downtown-New-Orleans-Map.jpg


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#26 renamerusk

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 03:27 PM

 

Just following in other cities district maps, you can see that there are many districts within the neighborhood.

 

Very good documentation for your idea. :)



#27 RD Milhollin

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 11:52 PM

First, I agree with Renamerusk that you have documented well and that your presentation is exceptional. However, I have to look at scale. On first glance it looks like each of the "districts" in the other cities is much larger than those proposed for downtown Fort Worth. I was just in NOLA a couple of weeks ago and the Warehouse/Museum/Arts District is easily as big as all "Downtown" Fort Worth. Each of the Toronto districts is 4 - 20 times the proposed districts in Fort Worth. The small size of FW downtown blocks has a lot to do with this. The Austin comparison probably comes closest, but I doubt anyone in Austin outside of the CVB would be able to name or delineate the "districts" shown. We are talking about a relatively small area here, from any edge most young and healthy citizens could walk briskly to the opposite edge in less than 30 minutes (excepting 10 and 2 which many would not consider "downtown" anyway). I still feel that there are too many fine distinctions being offered for the small area being considered.  



#28 Jeriat

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 11:46 AM

Even with its small area in comparison to other cities, our downtown still has many sections that feel different. And every one I mapped out is what I see could be (or already is) a potential district. 

The area around Sundance Square is obviously the area that stands out the most. "Heritage" stands out because of it being attached to the bluff/river on the northside. Lancaster, Trinity Uptown, and the Upper Westside already have their own designations. And it goes without saying, but the area around the ITC is just BEGGING for development. To a certain extent, I feel the area around Summit  is the same way. 

Burnett-Hunter is the only one of those that may be unnecessary, but I actually have my own vision for it (even though it has changed a few times), which is why I marked it down. 

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#29 lcbrownz

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 05:17 AM

 

 

It sort of feels like the parts of downtown that aren't Sundance are searching for an identity of their own.

 

I'll map it later, but here's what I'd have in mind in terms of districts:


- Sundance Square (existent)  
- Flatiron (suggested)
- Lancaster Corridor (in the works)
- Justice 
- Transit Center 
- Burnett 
- Upper Westside (existent...sort of) 

- Trinity Uptown (currently developing) 

- Summit 
- Sunset Terrace (existent, but not underdeveloped) 

 

 

What makes sense and what does not - change or remain the same?

 

Does Not Make Sense/change: Lancaster Avenue- from Jones Street to Montgomery Street. 

 

Instead of Lancaster Avenue, and as a way to emphasize the importance of this corridor that links Downtown to the Art/Exhibition District, I advocate for a change in name.  Lancaster to be known as The Avenue Fort Worth.  How does that appeal?

 

The name "Lancaster" Avenue has some historical significance to Fort Worth. It was named after J.J. Lancaster, the President of the Texas & Pacific Railway). It was his leadership that expanded the presence of the railway in Fort Worth during the early 20th Century. The T&P rail yards were named after him.



#30 renamerusk

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 10:25 AM

Not everybody is a junior urban planner as a hobby or even that aware of labels like Downtown or Near Southside or Panther Island. Sure, there's some generally agreed upon boundaries to Downtown, but to most people, the label is pretty arbitrary. Some just have different perspective. I had an aunt that lived in Granbury while I was growing up and to her going in to Hulen or Ridgmar, or pretty much anywhere north of Whiskey Flats, was going "downtown". Her car was stolen from the Red Lobster on Hulen one time and I'm sure she told everyone it was stolen "downtown". Are you really going to make people like that care about labels by dogmatically correcting them?

 

 

It's easy for me to forget that not everyone is into districts and urban planning like I and a few of you on this board are.

BUT, you would think that the average person in this country sees "downtown" as tall buildings (and when I say "tall", I mean over 10 floors) collected together within a single neighborhood. You don't really see that in West 7th or the Near Southside. 

That, and the thought of exactly how large our downtown area really is. Seems like they're being very generous considering that some of those same people think Ft. Worth is still a small-ish city.

 

It could be a matter of life or death if someone hurt or a crime took place in the Hulen District and that someone told the EMS that they are in Downtown when in reality they are in Southwest Fort Worth.  So it does make both dogmatic and practical sense.

 

I feel that the point made by Jeriat is and should be the correct thinking for the average person, if for no other reason than that Downtown looks very different from other neighborhoods; and that should be reasonably clear in someone's eyes.



#31 Austin55

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 12:42 PM

Cartan's shoes on Magnolia is always advertising their "downtown" location. 

 

Here's another example. Weather broadcaster from NBC saying "Exploring downtown Fort Worth", while posting a picture of Exchange Ave and the Stockyards sign. You'll see this a lot on social media. 



#32 renamerusk

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:54 PM

Cartan's shoes on Magnolia is always advertising their "downtown" location. 

 

 They are wrong; and are better sticking to the selling of shoes and not the teaching of geography.



#33 JBB

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 05:32 PM

It could be a matter of life or death if someone hurt or a crime took place in the Hulen District and that someone told the EMS that they are in Downtown when in reality they are in Southwest Fort Worth.  

 

I have plenty of confidence in our emergency call takers and first responders and the technology of the 911 and dispatch systems.  They're trained and designed to answer calls from people from out of town, people incapacitated by injury or illness, people under the influence of drugs or alcohol, people ignorant of their location or the neighborhoods in the city, person's with disabilities, and even people who don't realize the movie theater they just got mugged in front of is in Crockett Row or Downtown.



#34 renamerusk

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 06:17 PM

 

It could be a matter of life or death if someone hurt or a crime took place in the Hulen District and that someone told the EMS that they are in Downtown when in reality they are in Southwest Fort Worth.  

 

I have plenty of confidence in our emergency call takers and first responders and the technology of the 911 and dispatch systems.  They're trained and designed to answer calls from people from out of town, people incapacitated by injury or illness, people under the influence of drugs or alcohol, people ignorant of their location or the neighborhoods in the city, person's with disabilities, and even people who don't realize the movie theater they just got mugged in front of is in Crockett Row or Downtown.

 

 

 Providing 911 dispatch good data as oppose to fake data that requires EMS to second guess the input may make a difference depending upon the emergency.  Besides, EMS is not 100% correct 100% of the time.



#35 gdvanc

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 05:44 PM

It could be a matter of life or death if someone hurt or a crime took place in the Hulen District and that someone told the EMS that they are in Downtown when in reality they are in Southwest Fort Worth.  So it does make both dogmatic and practical sense.



Even if we agree on a fairly narrow definition of Downtown, that's probably not going to be nearly specific enough to help in an emergency. "I'm being mugged!" "Where are you?" "Downtown!" No, you'd need the kind of spectacular emergency that's visible from quite a distance if you can't be more specific than that.



#36 renamerusk

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 09:05 PM

 

.....I had an aunt that lived in Granbury while I was growing up and to her going in to Hulen or Ridgmar, or pretty much anywhere north of Whiskey Flats, was going "downtown". Her car was stolen from the Red Lobster on Hulen one time and I'm sure she told everyone it was stolen "downtown". Are you really going to make people like that care about labels by dogmatically correcting them?

 

 


Even if we agree on a fairly narrow definition of Downtown, that's probably not going to be nearly specific enough to help in an emergency. "I'm being mugged!" "Where are you?" "Downtown!" No, you'd need the kind of spectacular emergency that's visible from quite a distance if you can't be more specific than that.

 

 

 I take your point gdvanc; even though geography does not weigh heavily on the minds of many people, it is one of the essential factors in establishing spatial identity.  Of course, this is the preeminent "bitch of mine" that Fort Worth is casually and often subsumed into Dallas and, for myself, has become a never ending frustration.

 

 Fort Worth is not Dallas; and Hulen is not Downtown even though that for each in the minds of too many there exists an equation of spatial proximity between the pairs that creates somewhat of a challenge to them.



#37 johnfwd

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 12:33 PM

In fairness to the mentality of old-timers, they probably inherited the pre-1920s lingo when farms dominated west of the Mississippi and a town was where produce was sent to market and you shopped for dry goods, etc. (see old episodes of "Gunsmoke"). So the crusty old farmer would tell his wife, "I'm a goin' down to the town, woman.  Don't wait up for me." He meant the whole town, which was actually bounded by only a few streets back then.

 

At some point "downtown" became the central business district where the tall builders are located.  And, yes, Fort Worth is certainly not Dallas because they have so many tall buildings everywhere there you can't tell where downtown starts and leaves off.






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