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Adding More Hotels Downtown

Downtown Hotels New Construction Conventions Convention Center

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#51 John T Roberts

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 06:31 PM

The Hilton Garden Inn on Jones Street is supposed to start construction very soon. 



#52 JBB

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 07:55 PM

There was the rumor of a hotel proposed in the T&P building, which maybe is worth counting.


That's a strange one that I haven't heard. What's the rumor? Buy out some or all of the condo owners and convert to hotel?

#53 rriojas71

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 08:07 PM

The Hilton Garden Inn on Jones Street is supposed to start construction very soon.


That's good news. I am glad to hear that. I think it could create a bit of foods traffic East of Sundance. I think that area between Sundance and Hillside has tons of potential

Have the new renderings been released? Last I recall, the prior proposal was denied by the DDRB.

#54 NSFW

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 08:10 PM

Not the lofts but the T&P warehouse.

http://www.star-tele...le76098732.html

Adrian


#55 JBB

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 08:24 PM

Ah. When I hear "T&P building", I think of the terminal rather than the warehouse.

#56 John T Roberts

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 08:36 PM

The DDRB approved the Hilton Garden Inn design on December 1, 2016. 

 

Many years ago, there was a hotel proposal for the terminal building.  As for the warehouse, I think the owner has tossed around many different ideas.



#57 JBB

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 08:58 PM

The hotel proposal for the terminal was dead on arrival because the city would not approve any economic incentives out of fear that it would compete with the then proposed convention center hotel. It was a neat proposal from what I remember. The hotel would have a railroad theme and the developer was looking for a retired steam locomotive to display in the lobby. He even floated the idea of looking for the T&P locomotive that is believed to be buried in the mud near Village Creek in west Arlington.

#58 Austin55

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 11:59 PM

Apologies for the confusion, I'll be more careful to distinguish the two T&P's in the future. 



#59 Austin55

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 03:44 PM

Here's the full quote from the SoDT 

 

 

DFWI is tracking nine hotels in various stages of development. These hotels, if all are built, represent the potential addition of 1,488 rooms to our existing 2,522-room inventory

 

By my count, 704 rooms are currently under construction,

Hampton - 245

Aloft - 180

Autograph by Marriot (Sinclair) - 165

Fairfield (Park Central) - 114



#60 Volare

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:42 AM

Here's the full quote from the SoDT 

 

 

DFWI is tracking nine hotels in various stages of development. These hotels, if all are built, represent the potential addition of 1,488 rooms to our existing 2,522-room inventory

 

 

Compared to 8500+ in downtown Austin. In my travels throughout the country, it never ceases to amaze me at the small cities I go to who have larger downtown hotels than anything in Fort Worth.



#61 John T Roberts

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:12 AM

With the small number of hotel rooms downtown and our convention center being undersized, these are probably the two biggest reasons that we are not attracting more conventions in the city. 

 

Volare, I don't travel near as much as you do, but I have noticed the small number and the smaller size of our hotels in downtown as compared to other cities. 



#62 rriojas71

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:15 AM

Austin is kind of an unfair comparison. Austin is our capital and many people travel there for state congressional work and other state related functions. Not to mention that Austin is the music capital of Texas and it seems to have a music event every other week, plus there is the fact that it is Austin.

I also think that many smaller cities that you travel to don't have another larger city next to them to draw potential visitors or maybe they are the largest most important economic city of that region. I don't compare Fort Worth to other cities of similar size for those reasons. I compare it to other comparable 2nd tier cities like St. Paul, St. Petersburg, Oakland, Newark, Tacoma. All of these cities are the 2nd anchor of a joint metro area. None of those cities, except maybe St. Paul, come close to matching Fort Worth. Oakland may as well, but Oakland is a different story all together.

Fort Worth isn't the main reason why people come to our area. Most people come here to visit Dallas, followed by Arlington. Fort Worth I guess would be third or maybe fourth.

#63 JBB

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:33 AM

A lot of those other smaller cities also aren't competing against a resort hotel with 400k square feet of meeting space that's a 5 minute drive to the airport.

#64 johnfwd

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:50 AM

A lot of those other smaller cities also aren't competing against a resort hotel with 400k square feet of meeting space that's a 5 minute drive to the airport.

True.  This just means that promoters of Fort Worth as a tourist stop have to work that much harder.



#65 renamerusk

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 04:37 PM

"The east side of the metroplex is getting a lot more office prospects than the west side".....

 

 

.........Fort Worth isn't the main reason why people come to our area. Most people come here to visit Dallas, followed by Arlington. Fort Worth I guess would be third or maybe fourth.

 

 

 

A lot of those other smaller cities also aren't competing against a resort hotel with 400k square feet of meeting space that's a 5 minute drive to the airport.

True.  This just means that promoters of Fort Worth as a tourist stop have to work that much harder.

 

I believe that this is a excellent topic for discussion.

 

I have come to the recognition that hospitality can be just as strong a contributor to Downtown as is a large office work force.

 

NID, I think that we can all agree that Fort Worth will not compete with the office speculation going on to its east; but that does not mean that Downtown along with the rest of Fort Worth cannot become competitive to its neighbor to the east when it comes to tourism. 

 

RRJ71, there are two kinds of tourists: business tourist and leisure tourists.  A large, functioning convention business and a large office force generates business tourism; attractions and culture generates leisure tourism.  I would suggest that Dallas' tourism is of the business kind; and that Fort Worth's tourism is largely of the the leisure kind.  

 

Furthermore, it can be argued that the leisure tourism has a greater potential than does the business tourism.  Businesses tend to draw back business travel because of the economy and because of innovations.  One other thing to consider is that leisure tourism is typically a 100% injection of revenue from outside whereas office related business tourism tends not to be.

 

JBB & JFWD,  one to one comparision, Fort Worth is equal or better in the amount of leisure tourism attractions that it has then has its neighbor to the east. In fact, Fort Worth exceeds in quality whatever Dallas has to offer in leisure tourism.

 

So, that is why lately, I have been so encouraged by the boom in hospitality projects.  Soon, the City will have added to it three headed offering (Cultural District-Stockyards-Agricultural Arena) a tourist mecca Downtown with a competitive convention center.  Other cities, such as Orlando, San Antonio, Reno, Austin have shown that leisure tourism has vast potential that is environmental friendly as opposed to the good/bad potential associated with business tourism and office speculation.

 

Yes, I would like to see a high rise or two added to Downtown, but these hotels and the hospitality related jobs and businesses that will be generated from a newly sizeable influx of out of town tourists will lessen our despair feelings of inadequacy over what is going on to our east.



#66 JBB

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 05:58 PM

I'm not sure why you're addressing me with that statement.  I never said FW couldn't compete with Dallas in tourism.  I was just pointing out that FW faces convention competition that other similar size cities don't. 



#67 renamerusk

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 07:07 PM

I'm not sure why you're addressing me with that statement.  I never said FW couldn't compete with Dallas in tourism.  I was just pointing out that FW faces convention competition that other similar size cities don't. 

 

 It was not intended to be a rebuttal towards any particular statement but an affirmative statement to stress that the convention competition is something that Fort Worth can and will overcome.



#68 Austin55

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 07:25 PM

There are two over things that will be a huge help to tourism downtown - TexRail and CVS. Both will make travel and visiting much easier and more convenient and make downtown more marketable.

#69 John T Roberts

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 07:37 PM

One other thing the city should promote is Heritage Tourism.  We have many historic buildings, houses, and neighborhoods that have been restored.  In my work at Historic Fort Worth, Inc. I have learned that our city has more designated (City, State, and National) structures than any city in Texas.  I have not verified this information, so I am not sure it is correct.



#70 JBB

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 07:44 PM

Agreed on all of the above. Replacing the arena with more meeting space is huge and I'm still disappointed that there wasn't more forethought put into financing that when the CD arena was planned. John, I would qualify your comment about heritage tourism by saying that the Stockyards should be included in that but not the only focus.

#71 renamerusk

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 07:47 PM

There are two over things that will be a huge help to tourism downtown - TexRail and CVS....

 

 While I can agree somewhat with the impact that TexRail may have on tourism, I don't actually understand how  a single retail store, i.e. another CVS will increase tourism. 

 

Besides, Fort Worth's tourism potential, though Downtown is one component of leisure tourism, comprises of a number of additional components across the City that will attract tourists to the City.



#72 Austin55

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 07:49 PM

I'm not saying it will increase it, but it would be immensely useful for many visitors (and residents) to have a convience store with a short stroll of Sundance and the CC.

#73 renamerusk

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 07:54 PM

Agreed on all of the above. Replacing the arena with more meeting space is huge and I'm still disappointed that there wasn't more forethought put into financing that when the CD arena was planned.....

 

 I am recalling, but not definitively, that the City was taking a conservative approach to the timeline of an Arena/Convention Space package.  The City did not want to load too much debt at one time on the taxpayers, so it decided to do the Arena phase first followed by the Convention Space phase.

 

We have been promised that the Convention Space will begin immediately after the Arena opens and is generating a stream of income.

 

We can have some confidence in the current and projected hotel boom that is a reaction to this stated timeline and is the how the City will be positioned to accommodate both a larger arena and a larger, improved convention  spaces.



#74 John T Roberts

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 08:49 PM

Yes, the Stockyards should be included, but not the entire focus.  The Stockyards are our newest local historic district.



#75 Doohickie

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 11:30 AM

Yes, the Stockyards should be included, but not the entire focus.  The Stockyards are our newest local historic district.


Which is it?  New, or historic?  ;)


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#76 John T Roberts

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:02 PM

Maybe I should have said "latest" instead of "newest".  The Stockyards are obviously "old and historic".  The district that was created by City Council is "new".  The Stockyards are the most recently created historic district in the city.  You probably knew what I was trying to say in the first place.



#77 Doohickie

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:13 PM

Just yankin' yer chain, John.  :swg:


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#78 renamerusk

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:16 PM

.... I don't compare Fort Worth to other cities of similar size for those reasons. I compare it to other comparable 2nd tier cities like St. Paul, St. Petersburg, Oakland, Newark, Tacoma. All of these cities are the 2nd anchor of a joint metro area. None of those cities, except maybe St. Paul, come close to matching Fort Worth. Oakland may as well, but Oakland is a different story all together.....

 

  Again, it is very exciting to see the hospitality industry discovering 2nd cities, if you may Fort Worth, as a result of the larger cities being overpopulated with hotels. 

 

 All this bodes very well for our City, who has a very good product to offer tourists and travelers seeking new destinations.



#79 Austin55

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 10:56 AM

Something I noticed poking around TAD, the empty plot of land along 7th & 5th and between the old Packard dealer and Whitley Penn building is owned by "WEST 7TH HOSPITALITY INC".

#80 Now in Denton

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 11:39 AM

 

"The east side of the metroplex is getting a lot more office prospects than the west side".....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NID, I think that we can all agree that Fort Worth will not compete with the office speculation going on to its east; but that does not mean that Downtown along with the rest of Fort Worth cannot become competitive to its neighbor to the east when it comes to tourism. 

 

I hope you know it was a quote from the President of the Fort Worth chamber. Not my words. If anything from what I remember he was planning to "compete" with Dallas on business that needs office space. I have my doubts weather he can ? But I hope I am wrong. And he was not talking about tourism. lol But it seems I cannot find my post with the link ?



#81 renamerusk

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 12:03 PM

Something I noticed poking around TAD, the empty plot of land along 7th & 5th and between the old Packard dealer and Whitley Penn building is owned by "WEST 7TH HOSPITALITY INC".

 

"Interesting".



#82 renamerusk

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 12:29 PM

I hope you know it was a quote from the President of the Fort Worth chamber. Not my words. If anything from what I remember he was planning to "compete" with Dallas on business that needs office space. I have my doubts weather he can ? But I hope I am wrong. And he was not talking about tourism. lol But it seems I cannot find my post with the link ?

 

 

 Again, not a rebuttal to anything you said, IMO, the emphasis being placed on competing with Dallas for businesses needing office space is going to be daunting. Fort Worth doesn't have an available pipeline of speculative new, cutting edge office space that businesses will be demanding. 

 

It seems that 1 or 2 realty groups control the Downtown Market.  Until Downtown becomes less of a monopolistic district and more open to where speculators like Jetta can come in with the willingness to build 21st Century office spaces,  there will be a revolving door through which office space will be largely under the management of Sundance Realty and Simpson Restoration. If the Chamber wants some speculative office projects for new office business for Downtown, then I hope that it can persuade Hillwood to invest in Downtown. Hillwood should be the first developer on it list. And why not?; as Hillwood has certainly done well in Far North Fort Worth.

 

 

Leisure Tourism is a market that Fort Worth ought to compete in more vigorously.  The hospitality industry is showing that there is a growing interest in Fort Worth evidence by the new speculative hotels in the pipeline. Fort Worth immediate future when it comes to Downtown is to get the Convention Center and Convention Tourist business up an running in a major way.



#83 Austin55

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 01:09 AM

Here's some quick numbers on how much FW stands to profit from more rooms.

 

Downtown hotels contributed $14,561,600 in taxes, at 2,522 existing rooms each room is taxed at around $15.8 a day, about 5,700 a year. If there are 690 (not counting the Park Central conversion) new rooms under construction now, the total taxes these would pay is just under $4,000,000 a year.

 

Source for the tax contribution/room numbers on page 4 of the 2013 State of downtown.



#84 Urbndwlr

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 11:45 AM

Austin 55 - good work as usual on providing statistics.   Thanks for all of your work.

 

Someone mentioned all the "2nd cities" - I think the best city pairs that relate best to Fort Worth and Dallas are Baltimore and Washington DC.  Many reasons they are not a perfect parallel, but they are almost exactly the same distance apart, and appear more comparable in terms of size and economic prowess.  (Baltimore is actually much smaller than FW but is still a significant city).

 

Either way, I think we're all in agreement that Fort Worth is overdue for more, quality hotel rooms of various types (big conference hotels, smaller, interesting boutique hotels, luxury hotel(s), etc etc).  Right now it seems the limited service hotel segment is on fire, and are opening everywhere.  Good to have, but the harder-to-finance and develop full service and high quality boutiques are really missing. 

 

And I cannot tell if the planned Renovo will be high quality and nicely designed (inside and out) or just claim to be.  Its easy to say you're going to be a luxury hotel, its another matter to actually do it. 



#85 Austin55

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 10:43 PM

Add the Canopy by Hilton to the list.

http://www.fortworth...wtopic=6396&hl=



#86 renamerusk

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 11:37 AM

Fort Worth Business Press: More Hotel Rooms Needed -

 

http://www.fortworth...ffb8b6356e.html



#87 Austin55

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 11:56 AM

Wow, I hadn't realized the Omni was the last hotel built. Nearly a decade with nothing and now several at once.

The article also doesn't mention a few that we've seen renderings of but haven't heard many details on, like the Canopy or Residence Inn.

#88 John T Roberts

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 05:44 PM

I think the one reason the Residence Inn and the Canopy were not mentioned is that we really don't know for sure if they will be built.  Neither of those two properties have gone before the Downtown Design Review Board and both of them still have buildings on them that need to be demolished to build the new hotels.



#89 Austin55

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 02:15 PM

 

 

He also added that between in-progress and coming projects about 4,000 new rooms will be added to the city through 26 hotels. Twelve hotels are coming to downtown, one to the cultural district, two to the Stockyards and 11 to North Fort Worth/the Near Southside/the South West.

http://www.fortworth...06a3098072.html

 

Last mentioned, DFWI said 9. I'm not sure what new hotels are in the pipeline, but more are coming...



#90 Austin55

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:15 PM

Quick article from ST about hotels. Nothing really new though.

 

http://www.star-tele...e177852491.html



#91 arch-image

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 04:36 PM

 

I hope you know it was a quote from the President of the Fort Worth chamber. Not my words. If anything from what I remember he was planning to "compete" with Dallas on business that needs office space. I have my doubts weather he can ? But I hope I am wrong. And he was not talking about tourism. lol But it seems I cannot find my post with the link ?

 

 

 Again, not a rebuttal to anything you said, IMO, the emphasis being placed on competing with Dallas for businesses needing office space is going to be daunting. Fort Worth doesn't have an available pipeline of speculative new, cutting edge office space that businesses will be demanding. 

 

It seems that 1 or 2 realty groups control the Downtown Market.  Until Downtown becomes less of a monopolistic district and more open to where speculators like Jetta can come in with the willingness to build 21st Century office spaces,  there will be a revolving door through which office space will be largely under the management of Sundance Realty and Simpson Restoration. If the Chamber wants some speculative office projects for new office business for Downtown, then I hope that it can persuade Hillwood to invest in Downtown. Hillwood should be the first developer on it list. And why not?; as Hillwood has certainly done well in Far North Fort Worth.

 

 

Leisure Tourism is a market that Fort Worth ought to compete in more vigorously.  The hospitality industry is showing that there is a growing interest in Fort Worth evidence by the new speculative hotels in the pipeline. Fort Worth immediate future when it comes to Downtown is to get the Convention Center and Convention Tourist business up an running in a major way

 

To a VERY large degree your correct in this statement, while I don't know I would say it is those two families/companies, but one of the biggest differences between Dallas and Ft Worth when it comes to land is in Dallas, everything has a price and at the end of the day, usually a reasonable one depending on what your buying. Ft Worth on the other hand is much the opposite, land in downtown and even surrounding areas in many cases have been in families for generations and many times quite frankly .... there is no price, or at least sensible price. I remember looking at a nice piece 5 years or so back about 2 acres vacant, hasn't been anything on it in decades and when we approached the owners, "not for sale" I mentioned, "everything has a price", the guy looked at me quizzically and said well, that's true, but I don't think your going to be willing to pay 10 mil for it and that's what it would take. D vs FW .... totally different worlds when it comes to buying land and doing developments.



#92 arch-image

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:47 AM

Interesting article in the FWST this morning on the opening of the first of seven hotels being built downtown. I was a bit surprised to see that overall occupancy is only 70%. Center core has 2522 rooms and they are adding just over 1,000. Can't help but feel like that will drive it down in to the mid 60's unless something changes substantially with and increase in convention bookings or new large corporate moving in.



#93 John T Roberts

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:57 AM

Supposedly the increase in convention bookings will keep the numbers up.  The article also mentions the Hilton Garden Inn on Jones being under construction.  The last time I was by there, which wasn't that long ago, nothing was happening on the site.



#94 Doohickie

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:21 AM

What would be a "healthy" occupation rate?  I can see where maybe 70% isn't awful, as long as they are full for big events (stock show, conventions, etc.)  I honestly don't know what a good occupancy metric is.

 

EDIT:  To answer my own question, 70% is actually above average.  Average in 2016 was 65.5%.  If the trend is for more business coming to downtown, having a below average rate might be considered an investment in the future (i.e., if you wait until demand is there, you've missed the boat).


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#95 arch-image

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:44 PM

Your correct, 70% is not bad, like to see more in the 75-80 but usually 70 is ok, concern is with 30% more rooms added what is going to happen to rates



#96 Doohickie

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 11:34 AM

Assuming no additional occupancy, that would lower the rate to 53%.  Like I said though, if the hotels weren't being built now they wouldn't be there in time to support anticipated growth.  Even with no growth in other areas of downtown, I wonder if there's an induced demand similar to that in roads?  If the hotels are there they will attract more guests simply because they are there.


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#97 John T Roberts

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 12:34 PM

I'm not an expert in hotels, but I do think there is some induced demand when it comes to them.  I also know that the Convention and Visitors Bureau will market the Convention Center to some of the conventions that turned us away because they claimed we didn't have enough hotel rooms.  If they attract those conventions, then the rooms will fill, and they will fill more often.  You also have to remember that we are building that big new arena in the Cultural District, and once that opens, there will probably be more of a need for hotel rooms.



#98 Urbndwlr

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 10:11 PM

Induced demand particularly applies in cases of really interesting leisure traveler hotels such as the Hotel Emma in San Antonio, which is a destination in and of itself.



#99 rriojas71

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 10:23 AM

The Hilton Garden Inn on Jones Street is supposed to start construction very soon.


Any news on this hotel? It’s been 7 months since this post and there still doesn’t seem to be any action at this site.

#100 John T Roberts

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 11:30 AM

The last time I drove by the site, nothing was happening.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Downtown, Hotels, New Construction, Conventions, Convention Center

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