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Fort Worth Stockyards

Stockyards New Development Historic District

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#1 renamerusk

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 11:52 AM

A major announcement is imminent about the Stockyards and is certainly deserving of a thread of its own. "Great anticipation for June 3, 2014!"

 

http://fwbusinesspre...mayor-says.aspx



#2 John T Roberts

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 02:20 PM

It will be interesting to see what is announced.  I have no early idea, other than the hotel on the west side of Main Street.



#3 Austin55

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 11:24 AM

Very curious about this to. 30 acres is a lot... Here's 2 potentials for the former meatpacking sites, which are between 33 and 34 acres each. Give or take a few and this is where I could see something happen.

 

Ox4z87I.jpg

 

Should we be worried about whats left of Swift will be getting torn down? Hopefully we'll know more Tuesday...



#4 Austin55

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 01:08 PM

A little more information from FWBP
 

http://fwbusinesspre...incentives.aspx

 

Sounds like the guy owns a lot of land along Marine Creek, perhaps Saunders park could get an expansion out of this? It's one of my favorite parts of FW and so few know of it.

 

Odd to see the stockyards suddenly undergoing a bit of a boom. Good for Ft. Worth's tourism scene though!



#5 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 05:53 PM

When I think of the old west, I think of buildings with wood facades, not brick facades.

 

I hope that some of these projects will have wood (or fake wood) exteriors instead of brick/masonry exteriors.


- Dylan


#6 Fort Worthology

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:39 AM

Funny, I've always wished that all the stockyards buildings with the fake wood facades would be restored to their original appearance. There are some lovely old commercial buildings on Exchange that would look great fully restored.



#7 renamerusk

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:22 PM

When I think of the old west, I think of buildings with wood facades, not brick facades.

 

I hope that some of these projects will have wood (or fake wood) exteriors instead of brick/masonry exteriors.

 

From what I have been able to learn, the area that is known as the Stockyard was mainly formed at the end of the 19th Century (1890's) and the building reflect the architecture of that period.  Wooden buildings are from  the mid19th Century (1840-60's) and were probably already fading or outdated forms of commercial structures. 

 

My guess is that the buildings that remain today in the Stockyards are for the most part what was actually being built at the time of the Stockyards' heyday.

 

Restoring the 1890's structures to their original likeness would be appropriate, but constructing wood structures, log cabins, teepees or such would not be appropriate.



#8 djold1

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:39 PM

The Stockyards is the Stockyards of 1902-1972..  and not the old west. It was built with mostly brick buildings and those that weren't were soon replaced because of the threat of fire.  

 

The old west in Fort Worth was Hell's Half Acre in the 1870's through the 1890's or the early 1900's and it covered the area downtown from approximately 9th or 10th street to the T&P railroad...  And by the late 1880's most of the major buildings were also of brick or stone. 


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#9 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 09:18 PM

Gotta admit, I'm surprised by the negative responses.

 

I understand that the Stockyards came after the period of old west architecture that I'm thinking of, but was suggesting that some of these proposed buildings replicate architecture from the prior era since we don't have good examples of that in Fort Worth except at the Zoo.


- Dylan


#10 Jeriat

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 11:39 PM

Today's the big day...


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#11 RD Milhollin

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 09:42 AM

 

I understand that the Stockyards came after the period of old west architecture that I'm thinking of, but was suggesting that some of these proposed buildings replicate architecture from the prior era since we don't have good examples of that in Fort Worth except at the Zoo.

 

Much of the "original architecture" in pioneer towns like Fort Worth was in the 1850's was pretty ramshackle, and not really meant to last; but this doesn't at all take away from its usefulness to the pioneers or its appeal to modern tourists. There was a time when the newer brick buildings were being constructed that the older wooden structures were still standing and serving useful purposes. As regards the Stockyards today, I would not see anything wrong with infill on vacant lots being built to resemble historically accurate wooden structures any more than someone building replica brick buildings there. It would be great if the new buildings actually resembled actual historical structures that were once on that property, but that may be getting too picky. I would not think it was a good idea to hide historical brick structures behind modern replica wooden facades though. Any historical structures should, as well as possible, be reconstructed to their original appearance.



#12 Fort Worthology

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:15 PM

 

 

I understand that the Stockyards came after the period of old west architecture that I'm thinking of, but was suggesting that some of these proposed buildings replicate architecture from the prior era since we don't have good examples of that in Fort Worth except at the Zoo.

 

Much of the "original architecture" in pioneer towns like Fort Worth was in the 1850's was pretty ramshackle, and not really meant to last; but this doesn't at all take away from its usefulness to the pioneers or its appeal to modern tourists. There was a time when the newer brick buildings were being constructed that the older wooden structures were still standing and serving useful purposes. As regards the Stockyards today, I would not see anything wrong with infill on vacant lots being built to resemble historically accurate wooden structures any more than someone building replica brick buildings there. It would be great if the new buildings actually resembled actual historical structures that were once on that property, but that may be getting too picky. I would not think it was a good idea to hide historical brick structures behind modern replica wooden facades though. Any historical structures should, as well as possible, be reconstructed to their original appearance.

 

 

Yeah, that's one problem I have with the Stockyards today - quite a few historic brick & stone structures with cheesy fake wood "wild west" storefronts.



#13 JBB

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 03:06 PM

Star Telegram has an article up on the new project that's pretty light on details. Renovation of a livestock barn for more retail and the existing retail in Stockyards Station, a new livestock auction, asking the city to create a TIF, new mixed use development that's very vague on details - hotel, residential, retail, dining. I would assume that's the possible project on the Billy Bob's parking lots that was alluded to in another thread. Sounds like there's promise, but far from a done deal.

#14 Austin55

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 03:34 PM

That barn on the south part (directly north and connecting to Saunders park) is used as a parking garage currently, definitely could include some better access to the park from there.

#15 cjyoung

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 03:56 PM

All the anticipation for nothing. :z:



#16 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 04:55 PM

This caught my attention in the ST article:

 

Also, a hotel and offices for corporate headquarters that could employ as many as 1,000 employees are part of the plan, the letter said.

http://www.star-tele...-seek-city.html

 

I'm wondering what large company would move their corporate headquarters to the Stockyards.

 

The article also says we will learn more about the project this afternoon. I hope that includes renderings.


- Dylan


#17 Austin55

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 05:51 PM

All the anticipation for nothing. :z:

Nothing? There's some pretty significant sounding stuff in here! This is just the beggining, it's way to early to get bored. 

 

 

I'm wondering what large company would move their corporate headquarters to the Stockyards.

 

The article also says we will learn more about the project this afternoon. I hope that includes renderings.

 

1,000 workers does seem like a ton, anybody have any idea about how large a building that would require?

 

The thing that caught my eye was the developer, Ed Roski. He's got L.A. live under his belt among some other things. That's a LOT of available money (side note, noticed he owns the Kings, who are just about to start playing the Rangers in the Stanley Cup Finals...)



#18 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 09:13 AM

It is difficult to overstate just how huge a project this is for the Stockyards and for Fort Worth. I fully recognize that there are many here who are sick and tired of everything in Fort Worth being about cowboys, cowboys, cowboys, and I will be one of the first to point out the dangers of Fort Worth being viewed as culturally monolithic or unnecessarily perpetuating stereotypes and I also recognize the need to better promote the other sides of Fort Worth - the sides that give additional depth to its character, demonstrate its creative/innovative/indie contributions and stand as bold examples of how Fort Worth is every bit as modern a city as one can find - but Fort Worth's western heritage is a critical part of its identity, making it distinct from so many other places in the world and is an important asset that should not be ignored, neglected or embarrassed about.

 

I say this because it can be easy sometimes to take all of this for granted, but there have been times when Fort Worth really was in danger of losing it. First around the 1950s when the rise of interstate highways and trucking enabled a move toward local cattle auctions and feed lots rather than a cattle industry that was highly centralized in Fort Worth - a change that practically decimated the stockyards. And then second during the widespread urban decay of the 60s, 70s and 80s that witnessed the crumbling of much of what was left of those times, at least in terms of architecture.

 

I have been told, for instance, that in the early 80s, right around the time that Billy Bob's was getting off the ground, there was a serious debate over which of the two main contenders for what to do with the Stockyards would be backed. One option that eventually won out was to go the Western Heritage route. The other, which apparently was receiving legitimate consideration at the time, was... professional wrestling. Yes, the stockyards could just as easily have become a center for professional wrestling. You can say what you will about Fort Worth being all about cowboys... but I'd much prefer that over it being associated with WWE.

 

And cheesy and cliché as it may be, the Stockyards are indeed iconic and Fort Worth's authentic western heritage is, particularly in an increasingly international economy, an asset (not the city's only asset nor one that should be promoted exclusively, but an asset nonetheless). As evidence of this I offer the following photos - they are of Billy Bob's... at Disneyland... in Paris (apparently it's been a huge hit over there). 

 

n007678_2016jan_billy-bobs_926x351.jpg

 

billy-bobs-country-western-saloon.jpg

 

N014832_2050jan01_billy-bobs_926x351.jpg



#19 johnfwd

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 10:48 AM

Good points, RenaissanceMan, and I like the photos.  Along with the "western heritage" theme, I think another great entertainment venue for the Stockyards would be casino gambling.  Yeah, I know that's a broken record statement, and the legislature has yet to legalize it here in Texas.  But, if they ever do, why not attract a Jack Binyon-style hotel/gambling casino to the Stockyards?  Does it belong here?  Yes, I believe so, because Fort Worth's early history included cattle drovers, saloons, and gambling.



#20 renamerusk

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 11:25 AM

It is difficult to overstate just how huge a project this is for the Stockyards and for Fort Worth. .... - but Fort Worth's western heritage is a critical part of its identity, making it distinct from so many other places in the world and is an important asset that should not be ignored, neglected or embarrassed about.....I say this because it can be easy sometimes to take all of this for granted, but there have been times when Fort Worth really was in danger of losing it.....And cheesy and cliché as it may be, the Stockyards are indeed iconic and Fort Worth's authentic western heritage is, particularly in an increasingly international economy, an asset (not the city's only asset nor one that should be promoted exclusively, but an asset nonetheless). As evidence of this I offer the following photos - they are of Billy Bob's... at Disneyland... in Paris (apparently it's been a huge hit over there). 

 

Ditto!



#21 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 11:27 AM

I have a feeling that within the next couple of legislative sessions, we could see some movement toward the legalization of limited gambling venues in Texas (beyond racetracks). I don't think (nor, if I'm being particularly honest, would I really want) that we are going to see full-scale casinos in Texas on the level that is found in Oklahoma and Louisiana (and certainly not Vegas)... for one thing, the casinos in Oklahoma and Louisiana depend too much on customers from Texas and will continue to lobby hard against that. But I would not be surprised if a very limited number of licenses were approved to allow card games and poker tournaments (but probably not slots), as long as they also have a significant hotel/entertainment component attached to it. With this in mind, I think that the Stockyards could be a great location for limited gambling, especially black jack and poker, but I wouldn't want to see it overrun with it (and if the state legislature were to approve it, odds are there would be provisions to prevent that. Similarly, I think you will eventually see this in Galveston as well.



#22 mmiller2002

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 11:29 AM

 

 

 

I understand that the Stockyards came after the period of old west architecture that I'm thinking of, but was suggesting that some of these proposed buildings replicate architecture from the prior era since we don't have good examples of that in Fort Worth except at the Zoo.

 

Much of the "original architecture" in pioneer towns like Fort Worth was in the 1850's was pretty ramshackle, and not really meant to last; but this doesn't at all take away from its usefulness to the pioneers or its appeal to modern tourists. There was a time when the newer brick buildings were being constructed that the older wooden structures were still standing and serving useful purposes. As regards the Stockyards today, I would not see anything wrong with infill on vacant lots being built to resemble historically accurate wooden structures any more than someone building replica brick buildings there. It would be great if the new buildings actually resembled actual historical structures that were once on that property, but that may be getting too picky. I would not think it was a good idea to hide historical brick structures behind modern replica wooden facades though. Any historical structures should, as well as possible, be reconstructed to their original appearance.

 

 

Yeah, that's one problem I have with the Stockyards today - quite a few historic brick & stone structures with cheesy fake wood "wild west" storefronts.

 

Wild West probably draws more tourism than slaughter house brick...



#23 Austin55

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 11:50 AM

I don't think such a minor detail has any effect on tourism. I'd rather be historically accurate.

#24 renamerusk

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 11:59 AM

 

Yeah, that's one problem I have with the Stockyards today - quite a few historic brick & stone structures with cheesy fake wood "wild west" storefronts.

 

I never get that feeling about the Stockyards.  Am I alone?



#25 cjyoung

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:14 PM

 

All the anticipation for nothing. :z:

Nothing? There's some pretty significant sounding stuff in here! This is just the beggining, it's way to early to get bored. 

 

 

Meh. We'll see. Never been drawn to the Stockyards as configured.



#26 Fort Worthology

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:25 PM

 

Wild West probably draws more tourism than slaughter house brick...

 

 

 

No, more like Sundance Square brick than "slaughterhouse" brick.



#27 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:36 PM

 

 

Wild West probably draws more tourism than slaughter house brick...

 

 

 

No, more like Sundance Square brick than "slaughterhouse" brick.

 

 

Brick is every bit as western and period-appropriate as wood panel... it just meant you had more money. The Stockyards were no ramshackle mining camp filled with pop-up general stores, it was the "Wall Street of the West" and the attraction of Amour and Swift was, at the time, the single biggest business attraction victory in the state's history (think Toyota to Plano times a thousand). It was big Boston money combined with even bigger Chicago money and what was built was so strong and so built to last that it would later crack a wrecking ball that was being used by a demolition crew that would eventually give up on the tear down project. Also worth noting that the Amour and Swift buildings were Acme Brick's first major project and the one that launched them into the big leagues... so there's that.



#28 mmiller2002

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 03:43 PM

 

 

Wild West probably draws more tourism than slaughter house brick...

 

 

 

No, more like Sundance Square brick than "slaughterhouse" brick.

 

 

Then it would just be Sundance North without a unique character.



#29 mmiller2002

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 03:46 PM

 

 

Yeah, that's one problem I have with the Stockyards today - quite a few historic brick & stone structures with cheesy fake wood "wild west" storefronts.

 

I never get that feeling about the Stockyards.  Am I alone?

 

I like the "cheesy" old-western concept of Exchange street.  It needs cleaning up a bit, but that takes the business' money, and I don't think that they are nearly as profitable as they were in the early 80's with the Urban Cowboy craze.



#30 Austin55

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 05:23 PM

 

 

 ...it was the "Wall Street of the West" and the attraction of Amour and Swift was, at the time, the single biggest business attraction victory in the state's history (think Toyota to Plano times a thousand). It was big Boston money combined with even bigger Chicago money and what was built was so strong and so built to last that it would later crack a wrecking ball that was being used by a demolition crew that would eventually give up on the tear down project. Also worth noting that the Amour and Swift buildings were Acme Brick's first major project and the one that launched them into the big leagues... so there's that.

 

 

All the more reason it needs to be somehow preserved. I don't care if it's a graffiti gallery. 



#31 John T Roberts

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:21 AM

Former City Councilman Steve Murrin will be asking for a postponement of the vote for the Stockyards plan.  The reason for this request is that the developers have not guaranteed they will protect the historical, architectural, and cultural portions of the Stockyards.  The area is on the National Register of Historic Places, but it is not a locally designated historic district.  Therefore; these buildings are not legally protected against demolition.

 

Here is a link to the article in the Business Press: http://fwbusinesspre...pment-plan.aspx



#32 RD Milhollin

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:32 AM

The Mule Barns are certainly worthy of historical preservation. 

 

http://www.stoppingp...y=tarrant&img=1



#33 John T Roberts

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:18 AM

This is interesting.  The western half of the mule barns are locally designated Highly Significant Endangered, and the eastern half are designated Demolition Delay.  Other local designations in the area include: The Stockyards Station and the Coliseum are designated Historic & Cultural Landmarks.  The Livestock Exchange and the Swift Office Building are designated Highly Significant Endangered.  Most of the other buildings considered historic within the National Register District are designated Demolition Delay.  The old Swift and Armour Plants proper have no designation.  The White Elephant Saloon is not designated.  The bridge over Marine Creek and the buildings on top of it are only designated Demolition Delay.  Basically everything west of the creek is only DD.



#34 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 01:59 PM

When are they going to release renderings of this project?

 

I think it's odd that the developers are asking for incentives without showing us any renderings.


- Dylan


#35 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 05:44 PM

When are they going to release renderings of this project?
 
I think it's odd that the developers are asking for incentives without showing us any renderings.


Not sure what obligation they are under to share renderings with us, but they've shown a couple basic ones and a site plan to Council at the pre-Council meeting this Past Tuesday. You can download the full PPT from the City's website.

#36 John T Roberts

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:35 PM

I was interviewed today along with Jerre Tracy, the Executive Director of Historic Fort Worth, Inc. relating to the Council vote tomorrow night.  Here's the link to the Business Press article:

 

http://fwbusinesspre...h-factions.aspx

 

I was also interviewed by the Star-Telegram about the Post Office being sold or transferred to the City of Fort Worth.



#37 Austin55

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:58 PM

That article basically confirms the lot Swift's remains are on is targeted for development. John- what historical status do the ruins hold?

 

I really wish I knew more about what the plans are. 



#38 John T Roberts

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:03 PM

We sat down with Scott for 1 1/2 hours.  I learned more about the project, and I would highly encourage everyone to attend tomorrow night's City Council Meeting to hear about this first hand.  The vote is late on the agenda, so plan for a long night.  I'm working weekends, and extra hours during the week right now, so I'm not sure that I will be there.



#39 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:11 PM

Just read the articles in the FWBP and the ST about the specific concerns relating to the proposed Stockyards development and I have to admit that I am deeply conflicted and do not know, if I had a vote and were forced to use it, which way that vote would fall. I am really encouraged by the idea of implementing a form-based code/development design guidelines, though I may be putting more faith in them than they deserve in this instance. I am not too particularly concerned about use (once a strong form based code / ddg is put in place) as much of that will in some ways be limited by the code. The establishment of a TIF could also give the City some longer-term leverage (as long as it is interested in using it).

I suppose that I would be interested to learn more about what (beyond a delay in the vote) Historic Fort Worth, Murrin and others would/could hope to achieve - is it strictly about the idea of committing the area to oversight by the historical commission or are there other aims? Have City staff reached out to the concerned parties about having a seat at the table in establishing the development design guidelines?

#40 John T Roberts

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:35 PM

To be honest with you, I have not seen the "plans" for this project or development.  Since this is happening rather quickly, I don't want to see the City commit to this project without having some kind of form base code, design guidelines, or historic district in place.  The reason is very clear from my listing of the designated properties.  The entire Stockyards area is in a National Register Historic District, but that does not protect any building from demolition, or even from abominable alterations. Our local designations are generally based on property lines.  Most of the vacant property is not designated; therefore, without a historic district or design guidelines, anything can be built within the existing zoning parameters literally right next to existing historic structures.  Would you like a Walmart to be built on Exchange Avenue right in the middle of the Stockyards?  It could happen.  Placing the area in a local historic district puts any new construction or alterations to existing historic buildings into review by City Staff and the Landmarks Commission.  It also gives local neighboring property owners a chance to express their views and give their input at public hearings. (Landmarks)  This gives local control over design within an area that is already a National Register Historic District.  It's probably the most logical step.  Also, heritage tourism is a big moneymaker for cities.  More dollars are spent on that type of tourism.  I do have stats to back this up, and Historic Fort Worth will be presenting those stats at tomorrow's City Council Meeting.  Preservation projects generate more construction jobs because they are more labor intensive.  Many tourists go to the Stockyards for what they are.  I'm worried that unchecked new development will change the character to a place that tourists may not be as likely to visit.



#41 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:25 PM

Not sure what obligation they are under to share renderings with us, but they've shown a couple basic ones and a site plan to Council at the pre-Council meeting this Past Tuesday. You can download the full PPT from the City's website.

 

What obligation are they under to show us renderings? They're asking for incentives ($$$), yet none of us know what this project will look like.

 

Do you have a link to that part of the city website? Searching "stockyards" was no help.


- Dylan


#42 renamerusk

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:07 AM

.....The entire Stockyards area is in a National Register Historic District, but that does not protect any building from demolition, or even from abominable alterations. Our local designations are generally based on property lines.  Most of the vacant property is not designated; therefore, without a historic district or design guidelines, anything can be built within the existing zoning parameters literally right next to existing historic structures.  Would you like a Walmart to be built on Exchange Avenue right in the middle of the Stockyards?  It could happen. .... Many tourists go to the Stockyards for what they are.  I'm worried that unchecked new development will change the character to a place that tourists may not be as likely to visit.

 

Excellent red flag.  I do recall my angst when the Sonic Drive-in was being put in near the Stockyards.

 

Majestic Realty Co. of California's homepage suggest to me that their development format is mainly in the warehouse and light commercial areas.   What type of businesses will they pursue and why have 400-500 employees commuting into the Stockyards?  http://www.majesticrealty.com/projects

 

IMO, Mr. Murrin is correct to ask for a slowing down of this project before it is too late.



#43 John T Roberts

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:27 AM

What I have seen from Majestic is that they are basically suburban developers.  You all may argue the point with me, but the last time a suburban developer had a major historic property was the Montgomery Plaza project.  Even though that acted as a catalyst for more (and better) West 7th Street development, from a design and restoration standpoint, it is/was a disaster.  The historic store and warehouse lost some of its historic character, a suburban development surrounded the warehouse, and the condos on the upper floors went belly up.  In addition to this, all of the contractors on the condominiums lost on the project.  This is why I have a real problem with the city giving these incentives sight unseen.

 

One other thing I failed to mention about economic incentives is that if the area was in a local historic district, the project could qualify for federal, state, and city tax incentives.



#44 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:14 AM

What I have seen from Majestic is that they are basically suburban developers.  You all may argue the point with me, but the last time a suburban developer had a major historic property was the Montgomery Plaza project.  Even though that acted as a catalyst for more (and better) West 7th Street development, from a design and restoration standpoint, it is/was a disaster.  The historic store and warehouse lost some of its historic character, a suburban development surrounded the warehouse, and the condos on the upper floors went belly up.  In addition to this, all of the contractors on the condominiums lost on the project.  This is why I have a real problem with the city giving these incentives sight unseen.
 
One other thing I failed to mention about economic incentives is that if the area was in a local historic district, the project could qualify for federal, state, and city tax incentives.


John, I share all of the concerns that you've outlined here, but I suppose that my primary point of confusion relates to whether or to what extent these concerns might addressed by the establishment of a form based code and development design guidelines - particularly as it currently seems that all incentives are contingent on this point. I think we can all agree that the last thing we'd want is another Montgomery Plaza situation or another Walgreens there in the Stockyards, but I am thinking of the example given by the Near Southside and, in particular, its ability to fend off the Comerica bank situation (though it did involve a fight).



#45 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:27 AM

 

Not sure what obligation they are under to share renderings with us, but they've shown a couple basic ones and a site plan to Council at the pre-Council meeting this Past Tuesday. You can download the full PPT from the City's website.

 

What obligation are they under to show us renderings? They're asking for incentives ($$$), yet none of us know what this project will look like.

 

Do you have a link to that part of the city website? Searching "stockyards" was no help.

 

 

Perhaps I should have been clearer. I fully expect that more detailed renderings than the developer is prepared to put out there publicly have been part of discussions with City Staff, Council (in Executive Session) and the Chamber. Nevertheless, they did include a few, as I said, very basic renderings and site plans in their presentation last week. Here's the PowerPoint: http://fortworthgov....&meta_id=234225.

 

While I do believe that there should be every expectation for the developer to show renderings to elected representatives of the public (Council), certain City staff and key stakeholders, I think it would be a stretch to suggest that any developer has any obligation to satisfy posters on internet forums (which is all that my original point was aimed at saying).



#46 Austin55

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:56 AM

If you don't want to donwload a PDF ^ Here's the given siteplan. 

lqv86Zo.jpg

 

I actually really like a lot of it. In fact, I like 2/3rds of it, the Stockyards north and Marine Creek districts both seem like they would be very positive and I'm excited for them. There's a lot of mixed use and creative ways of using the landscape. 

 

But, it really saddens me to see that the plans for the Swift Ruins are to get rid of them. I wish instead that development could be moved north , to the existing empty lot East of Packers St. 



#47 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:13 AM

If you don't want to donwload a PDF ^ Here's the given siteplan. 

lqv86Zo.jpg
 
I actually really like a lot of it. In fact, I like 2/3rds of it, the Stockyards north and Marine Creek districts both seem like they would be very positive and I'm excited for them. 
 
But, it really saddens me to see that the plans for the Swift Ruins are to get rid of them. I wish instead that development could be moved north , to the existing empty lot East of Packers St. 


I agree with your disappointment about that one district. It would be nice if they were able to somehow incorporate the ruins or at a minimum their materials into the project, but I honestly don't know how feasible that is given their current state (though I hope someone could tell me). I also don't like the amount of surface parking in that particular area (seems a tad unnecessary, but maybe that is something the TIF could help with), though it seems that the amount is the other areas is fine.

#48 Fort Worthology

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 12:23 PM

 

I agree with your disappointment about that one district. It would be nice if they were able to somehow incorporate the ruins or at a minimum their materials into the project, but I honestly don't know how feasible that is given their current state (though I hope someone could tell me). I also don't like the amount of surface parking in that particular area (seems a tad unnecessary, but maybe that is something the TIF could help with), though it seems that the amount is the other areas is fine.

 

 

Yeah, that's a lot of surface parking in that one area.  Going to be a bit disconnected, especially that residential - who doesn't love looking out their bedroom window at a parking lot? </sarcasm>



#49 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:16 PM

Perhaps I should have been clearer. I fully expect that more detailed renderings than the developer is prepared to put out there publicly have been part of discussions with City Staff, Council (in Executive Session) and the Chamber. Nevertheless, they did include a few, as I said, very basic renderings and site plans in their presentation last week. Here's the PowerPoint: http://fortworthgov....&meta_id=234225.

 

While I do believe that there should be every expectation for the developer to show renderings to elected representatives of the public (Council), certain City staff and key stakeholders, I think it would be a stretch to suggest that any developer has any obligation to satisfy posters on internet forums (which is all that my original point was aimed at saying).

 

 

Oh, ok. I agree with you now. I would argue taxpayers should know as well, but I do not live in Fort Worth proper or pay Fort Worth taxes, so I count as just an internet poster. The fact that they hadn't shown anything to the public was cause for concern, though.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

As far as the site plan, it looks good to me as long as everything is built exactly as shown. Dissapointed that the ruins will be torn down, but they're worthless and unsalvagable anyway. Doesn't look like anything else will be torn down.

 

I do hope they reconsider the exterior of the buildings in that retail area, though. I would rather see wooden "false" fronts.


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#50 John T Roberts

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:12 PM

The City Council just voted to grant $26 million in tax incentives for the project.  I hope I have the number correct.  However, Councilman Espino proposed to change the zoning from K - Industrial to PD - Planned Development.  He also proposed form based codes and design guidelines and that the "city would watch the project like a hawk".  My hat is off to outgoing District 9 Councilman Joel Burns in his swan song.  He spoke on how he has spent the last 15 years as Landmarks Commissioner (later Chair of that commission), Zoning Commissioner, and then as Councilman.  He spoke on how he championed preservation and how he wanted to get city owned buildings landmarked, and that never happened.  He even mentioned that the architecturally and important Will Rogers Auditorium, Coliseum, and Pioneer Tower are not locally designated.  Then he went off on the gutting of the Preservation Department within the city.  He even stated that preservation within city hall smells like what is left behind after the Fort Worth Herd has gone through the Stockyards.  He essentially stated that a local historic district was proper to be a part of this proposal, and since it wasn't, he was going to vote "No".  The actual vote in favor of this was 8 for and 1 against. 

 

I would highly encourage everyone to watch the entire portion of this meeting, especially Joel's final speech.  I'm just hoping that his replacement will be as good of a councilperson to District 9 as he has been.







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