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#1 renamerusk

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 04:51 PM

Even though there is a yet to be funded potential HSR corridor between Dallas and Houston , multiple media outlets are now reporting the preferred HSR corridor connecting North Texas to Houston by both the RTC and the Texas HSR Commision will include terminals in Fort Worth, Arlington and Dallas.

 

Perhaps it is time to focus more on the recommendation of the regional/state authorities than the other potential player. - Lets separate the two.



#2 renamerusk

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 05:24 PM

I have long felt that the city should work to convince the railroads to combine freight operations onto the set of tracks downtown closest to I-13W, freeing up the other tracks closest to Jones Street for passenger service. These tracks seem largely unused,....[use] eventually [for] HSR connecting to San Antonio to the south and Oklahoma City and Tulsa (or even Chicago) northward.... Dedicated passenger rails are going to be needed to make expanded commuter rail work and modern HSR work in this area. 

 

Pending the report establishing the best location of a HSR station in Fort Worth,  it is premature to rule out the T&P station or an entirely new station for HSR in Fort Worth.  From my admittedly untrained eyes, the T&P station seems better situated to inbound/outbound trains traveling east/west/south.



#3 Austin55

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 05:56 PM

What commuters is HSR really catering to? I don't really know about them because we don't really have them in the US. Is it a lot of business travelers for meeting/conventions? Vacationers just visiting for sightseeing and staying in hotels? Mix of both like air travel?

#4 RD Milhollin

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 11:30 PM

 

I have long felt that the city should work to convince the railroads to combine freight operations onto the set of tracks downtown closest to I-13W, freeing up the other tracks closest to Jones Street for passenger service. These tracks seem largely unused,....[use] eventually [for] HSR connecting to San Antonio to the south and Oklahoma City and Tulsa (or even Chicago) northward.... Dedicated passenger rails are going to be needed to make expanded commuter rail work and modern HSR work in this area. 

 

Pending the report establishing the best location of a HSR station in Fort Worth,  it is premature to rule out the T&P station or an entirely new station for HSR in Fort Worth.  From my admittedly untrained eyes, the T&P station seems better situated to inbound/outbound trains traveling east/west/south.

 

 

There is very limited track potential behind the T&P for passenger rail; the freight traffic there is substantial and there are soft plans for future commuter rail to continue from there down the 8th Avenue/Granbury Road corridor. I have a hard time seeing where the separate tracks necessary for HSR would be located there.

 

Furthermore, there is little potential for west-bound HSR past Fort Worth (to Abilene? Midland -Odessa?) I DO think there is potential for the east-west AMTRAK to use this route if tracks are ever doubled. The main HSR rail potential for Fort Worth in the future is going to be oriented more north-south than east-west.

 

The potential for expansion as the system grows exists at the Jones Street Station (oops, sorry, ITC), and could connect several additional modes of travel over what it handles now; the bus lines, AMTRAK, and limited commuter rail. This potential simply doesn't exist at the T&P. 



#5 renamerusk

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 08:42 AM


There is very limited track potential behind the T&P for passenger rail...... I have a hard time seeing where the separate tracks necessary for HSR would be located there.....Furthermore, there is little potential for west-bound HSR past Fort Worth (to Abilene? Midland -Odessa?)...... The main HSR rail potential for Fort Worth in the future is going to be oriented more north-south than east-west.....The potential for expansion as the system grows exists at the Jones Street Station (oops, sorry, ITC), and could connect several additional modes of travel over what it handles now; the bus lines, AMTRAK, and limited commuter rail.

 

This potential simply doesn't exist at the T&P. 

 

I think as in all matters of this magnitude a round of public hearings and an engineering/consultant's report will be necessary before public/federal funds are approved for a HSR project.  Fort Worth is the natural crossroad for north/south and east/west HSR corridors.  Among the topic that planners should also study is the future potential of HSR beyond Fort Worth to West Texas (El Paso), to Phoenix, AZ and Southern California.  In these early stages of planning for and ultimately developing a regional/national HSR system, how has it already been determined which directional corridor is preeminent?

 

As for the T&P station, I can envision an expansion of the T&P complex south to Vickery Street .  Not only would there be growth  for the south and west sectors of the CBD, but there would also be explosive growth brought to the near south areas of the city.  The ITC would not offer as broad of a impact.

 

In the end, there will be many factors that go into the final decision made for the best site of the HSR station; and whether that site be the ITC, the T&P or a new station. 

 

At this juncture in the conceptual phase of HSR, to declare the ITC as the best site for the station based upon its merits today and to eliminate other potential sites is premature.



#6 RD Milhollin

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 09:52 AM

 


There is very limited track potential behind the T&P for passenger rail...... I have a hard time seeing where the separate tracks necessary for HSR would be located there.....Furthermore, there is little potential for west-bound HSR past Fort Worth (to Abilene? Midland -Odessa?)...... The main HSR rail potential for Fort Worth in the future is going to be oriented more north-south than east-west.....The potential for expansion as the system grows exists at the Jones Street Station (oops, sorry, ITC), and could connect several additional modes of travel over what it handles now; the bus lines, AMTRAK, and limited commuter rail.

 

This potential simply doesn't exist at the T&P. 

 

I think as in all matters of this magnitude a round of public hearings and an engineering/consultant's report will be necessary before public/federal funds are approved for a HSR project.  Fort Worth is the natural crossroad for north/south and east/west HSR corridors.  Among the topic that planners should also study is the future potential of HSR beyond Fort Worth to West Texas (El Paso), to Phoenix, AZ and Southern California.  In these early stages of planning for and ultimately developing a regional/national HSR system, how has it already been determined which directional corridor is preeminent?

 

I was basing that on the generally accepted (?) guideline that HS rail segments longer than 400-500 miles are not economically competitive with airlines, given time and current cost considerations. There needs to be a certain demand present as well, and there are not very many people in west Texas compared to points east, or south for that matter. However, that said it certainly is premature to start drawing blueprints for the next rail station. I don't think it is premature to start laying the groundwork for implementing the most likely scenario, and the track consolidation I was referring to would seem to be a step in that direction for several reasons.



#7 renamerusk

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 04:50 PM

 I don't think it is premature to start laying the groundwork for implementing the most likely scenario, and the track consolidation I was referring to would seem to be a step in that direction for several reasons.

 

 

Likely scenario without a study or public comments......Reasons?  I suppose you are favoring ITC.



#8 BlueMound

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 06:43 PM

The Big Texas Plan to Copy Japan's High-Speed Rail Success
http://www.citylab.c...success/372984/

#9 renamerusk

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:41 PM

The Big Texas Plan to Copy Japan's High-Speed Rail Success
http://www.citylab.com/commute/20

 

I had hoped that this thread might be dedicated to the debate of any HSR project other than the Japanese/Texas Central Project.  The TCR project debate has many threads and tangents which has made it a mangled mess too exhausting to follow.

 

Excuse me for wanting to keep the state/federal HSR project separate from TCR.



#10 johnfwd

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 05:51 AM

Not meaning to disparage a desire to discuss the topics separately, but I've been overwhelmed by the comments here and elsewhere about all the various proposals for train terminals and stops and connections here and there in Texas.  Not being a rail industry expert, it's all confusing to me.

 

But my simplistic view is that any project that depends on federal and/or state government funding these days is going nowhere fast!   That being the case, a privately funded consortium with sufficient resources to do HSR will pick it's own route based on anticipated market demand.  Because HSR seems to be viewed as an alternative to commercial airline passenger service, I'm guessing that anticipated market demand would be the existing airline passenger service customer.  And since the only city-to-city service of this kind in our area is Southwest Airlines, I'm guessing the winning route will be Dallas to Houston.  As a Fort Worth native, of course, I'd like to see an HSR connection that includes Fort Worth.  But I don't believe that will happen in the beginning of any Texas project for this fledgling industry.



#11 Volare

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:12 PM

Sal Espino posted today on Facebook:

 

At High Speed Rail Briefing on route from Houston to Dallas to FW w/Bill Meadows Chairman of the Texas High Speed Rail Commission and Michael Morris of the Regional Transportation Council. Thank you to FW Chamber of Conmerce for this event!



#12 johnfwd

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:16 AM

Any details about this briefing?



#13 Volare

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:19 AM

I didn't even know it was happening. Now that I know it happened I can do some digging to find minutes and such, as well as ask Sal about it.



#14 johnfwd

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 11:57 AM

Accolades to Mayor Price for her role in getting this China-based company to move its headquarters to Fort Worth, as reported in A. Lee Graham's article in the Fort Worth Business Press.  But the reason I downloaded this article here is because of references (in the last few paragraphs of the FWBP article) to discussions in Tokyo between the Fort Worth delegation of Texas' high-speed rail initiative and the Japanese consortium involved in this venture.  The Japanese need to be impressed with the need for a Dallas to Fort Worth rail route.

 

http://fwbusinesspre...merican-HQ.aspx



#15 Volare

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 10:35 PM

Here's a parallel to the importance of HSR for Fort Worth.

 

http://us.megabus.com

 

You can hop on the MegaBus and go to place like Austin, San Antonio, Houston, for less than the gas it would cost you to drive there yourself. Although they advertise a DFW station, in fact they have a station in Dallas and one in Grand Prairie.

 

Are we about to miss the bus again?



#16 RD Milhollin

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 11:47 PM

Yep, looks like we missed it. Too bad that service could not originate from the ITC (9th Street Station), seems a natural fit.



#17 johnfwd

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 06:01 AM

Greyhound had a small bus station in downtown Fort Worth back in the days...

 

I'm not anti-bus and don't wish to get anyone hot under the wheels.  But I believe HSR, if not too burdened with mid-cities stops, would get you from Dallas to Fort Worth and back much quicker than an express bus (when you consider that buses share the bumper caravan when I-30 has a traffic accident, stalled clunker, or some other obstacle).  And we've given buses a chance to shine on the lanes since WWII.  Now let's get back to pre-1955 railroading with some modern locomotives! 



#18 Volare

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 07:21 AM

Oh don't get me wrong, the train is better, I'm just pointing out that FTW isn't even staying competitive with the MegaBus.

I don't see how we are thinking the train has any chance at all of coming to FTW if we can't even bring the MegaBus here.



#19 johnfwd

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 08:33 AM

You may be right, regrettably.



#20 Volare

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 08:09 AM

http://www.star-tele...speed.html?rh=1

 

Now they don't even mention Fort Worth.

 

The bus and train have left the station...



#21 RD Milhollin

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 12:41 PM

The article clearly says this is the plan floated already by the private interests that want to build the railroad. They have proposed south of Dallas to north of Houston. I would estimate that they are going to wait for public entities to approach them about extending the route north and south to city centers over expensive right-of-way gained through eminent domain. The extension from Dallas to Fort Worth is most likely not going to be seriously proposed until the other parts are in place. Studies by the state and federal governments will probably continue, and proposals would hopefully be formally submitted at an appropriate time in the master-planning process.



#22 Dallastar

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:22 AM

Potential sites selected

 

http://www.dallasnew...il-revealed.ece



#23 renamerusk

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 04:45 PM

Potential sites selected

 

http://www.dallasnew...il-revealed.ece

 

Who will you be siding with in this upcoming battle: "Death to the Wright Amendment" Southwest Airlines or Texas Central Railway?

 

Buried down in the article is this little nugget:

 

"The company has the power to use eminent domain for the project. The two routes selected for closer consideration largely follow existing rail lines or utility rights of way, which would minimize the need for land purchases or seizure". DMN.

 

This will be dynamite, kinda like the XL Keystone Pipeline!



#24 Dallastar

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 07:44 AM

I believe Southwest will do what they can to try to stop this, but I feel that both can co-exist.



#25 RD Milhollin

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 10:09 AM

The S-T editorial board urges that Fort Worth keep itself visible as a future end-stop on the D(FW) - Houston HSR line. Having the Dallas stop downtown at Union Station would help the argument that an urban route connecting downtown FW and D could be constructed along the I-30 corridor ($4B - wow!)

 

http://www.star-tele...-as-dallas.html

 

It might be an additional selling point by continuing to mention (and support) planning efforts to bring HSR to the I-35 corridor; OKC, FtW, Austin, SA, and even Monterrey, and eventual connections to Tulsa, St. Louis, and Chicago, and routes east, with possible stops at Shreveport, Jackson, Montgomery or Birmingham, and then Atlanta. The expensive urban link would be a critical component in providing seamless HRS service to the region, and the country, in years ahead, sort of how the Hudson River tunnels are vital in connecting NYC and New England to the rest of the nation's rail infrastructure. Given the demands that that transportation link is experiencing today it might prudent to push for a three-rail link DFW link to avoid shutdowns due to maintenance and "unscheduled events".



#26 renamerusk

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 11:42 AM

I believe Southwest will do what they can to try to stop this, but I feel that both can co-exist.

 

I believe that SWA has suggested in so many words that it will drown any Dallas-Houston HSR baby in the bathtub before its has a chance to crawl.



#27 Electricron

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 08:46 PM

Early cost estimates to build HSR 30 miles between Dallas and Fort Worth is around $4 Billion. Texas Central only plans to spend $10 Billion to build the 240 miles between Dallas and Houston.

 

I don't see private enterprise spending 40% more to lengthen the line 12% more.



#28 renamerusk

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 11:42 PM

Early cost estimates to build HSR 30 miles between Dallas and Fort Worth is around $4 Billion. Texas Central only plans to spend $10 Billion to build the 240 miles between Dallas and Houston.

 

I don't see private enterprise spending 40% more to lengthen the line 12% more.

 

 

I am skeptical of most everything that the S-T opines.

 

Why continue to muddy the waters with such nonsense.  Texas Central is in no way capable or interested in connecting to Fort Worth; and that reality is something that Fort Worth understands.

 

What Fort Worth understands is this - that it is strategically positioned on Texas' I-35 R.O.W. (FW - Austin - San Antonio) and will be a component of the joint OK-TX-MEX HSR project.  If Dallas is to tie into OTM, then it will be Dallas who will require the $4B I-30 R.O.W. link to tie in to the regional HSR, not Fort Worth.

 

I see this as purely B.S. marketing on the part of TCR.  How is it that TCR has yet to designate the sites of its terminals? What acquisitions have been completed; what agreements with the RR have been inked?  Be excited Dallas, nothing so far that TCR has been "high speed"; and with so much yet to be determined, how can this really be up and running by 2021?

 

As for  Fort Worth, it is wisely placing its chips on the Oklahoma-Texas-Mexico HSR where the prospects are better and far less involved. Except for the occasional blogger from Dallas who may find a need to routinely evoke the TCR Dallas-Houston project into this forum, Fort Worth should not concern itself with TCR as it will not have any consequence whatsoever to our city.

 

The Texas Central HSR, without a significant infusion of a public funds bailout and the use of public R.O.W., is a sham and a tease that Dallas seems to so readily fall for.  



#29 johnfwd

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 06:14 AM

First time I've heard of a Oklahoma-Texas-Mexico HSR.  But maybe i missed this in earlier discussion or reading.  What's the news about this?



#30 RD Milhollin

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 09:14 AM

First time I've heard of a Oklahoma-Texas-Mexico HSR.  But maybe i missed this in earlier discussion or reading.  What's the news about this?

 

Check posting #248 in this thread:

 

http://www.fortworth...pic=4819&page=5



#31 renamerusk

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 12:37 PM

Early cost estimates to build HSR 30 miles between Dallas and Fort Worth is around $4 Billion. Texas Central only plans to spend $10 Billion to build the 240 miles between Dallas and Houston.

 

I don't see private enterprise spending 40% more to lengthen the line 12% more.

 

 

First time I've heard of a Oklahoma-Texas-Mexico HSR.  But maybe i missed this in earlier discussion or reading.  What's the news about this?

 

Of course, TCR is posturing, and Big D is gladly stepping up to be the pigeon.  Two angles to this switch and bait are:

 

(1) TCR wants a sit at the table when the Federal/State funding of the only legitimate option for HSR in the Southwest U.S. is developed using the Interstate R.O.W.  As any potential investor could easily surmise, the TCR has zero possibility of future expansion beyond the two terminals in Dallas and Houston. TCR must be tied into (frow the west) the OK-TX-MEX system if it is to be relevant.  The "switch and bait" is that TCR is angling for the contract to manage the public HSR project.

 

(2) OK-TX-MEX, with the power of the Federal/State governments,  can afford to let TCR stick its neck out and go "head to head" with both the airlines and automobile at no cost to the taxpayers.  TCR seems willingly to be the guinea pig; and I seriously doubt that investors will want to want be the bank under that scenario.  The "switch and bait" is that TCR will be hoping for a bailout.

 

In any case, TCR really has nothing for Fort Worth and Fort Worth has nothing for TCR.  As a taxpayer, letting TCR go ahead with its plans will benefit the public project by providing information of what to and of what not to do.

 

To answer your question, Johnfwd, here are some reports about the OK-TX-MEX HSR:

 

http://geo-mexico.com/?p=11411

 

http://www.texastrib...igh-speed-rail/

 

http://www.khou.com/...ities/14801183/



#32 BedfordLawyer

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 11:29 AM

I don't see how any high speed rails are built anywhere in Texas. HSR is not just a risk to Southwest but to all regional commuter airlines so any serious proposal here in Texas is going to face an opposing lobby of all the regional airlines along with all of the larger airlines. Texas will be for HSR what Vietnam was for the spread of communism: one working example ensures its spread. Tie in other strange bedfellows like the air travel unions, ground transportation unions, busing companies, AMTRAK (possibly), businesses that support the airports and their employees' unions, businesses that support freeway upkeep and all the landowners at risk of having a rail cut through their property.

 

If such a rail system gets into serious discussions, it is almost certain to be tied to regional airports. Those airports stand to lose the most from HSR and will have almost a 1:1 business shift from regional jet passenger to rail passenger. So rather than leave a lot of empty terminals at an airport and have to build new infrastructure somewhere else it is probable that terminals will be converted from one system to the other. That also allows the rental car businesses to operate their locations at those regional airports. If they had to split their business between a regional airport and a regional rail station it is also probable that neither location can sustain itself off of half the business. That means any plan that does not loop into the regional airports and risks the profitability of those businesses will also face an opposing lobby from that industry. That also pretty much ensures Fort Worth is locked out because Love Field and/or DFW would be likely destinations. Meacham no longer has the infrastructure for it. Alliance could be a destination with a rail looping west of Fort Worth but there's no commuter infrastructure there either.


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#33 Electricron

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 05:13 AM

The Texas Central HSR, without a significant infusion of a public funds bailout and the use of public R.O.W., is a sham and a tease that Dallas seems to so readily fall for.  

Name one faster than 110 mph "new" HSR corridor the FRA has fully funded? I'm waiting.

Any teasing going on is for the publicly funded San Antonio to Oklahoma City HSR. Oklahoma sold its rail corridor between Tulsa and Oklahoma City last year - because it has little to no interests subsiding passenger trains, outside the existing Heartland Flyer slow speed train.

 

The FRA has spent close to $5 Billion upgrading a rail corridor in Illinois between Chicago and St. Louis over the last decade. So far, trains proceed at 110 mph over just 20 miles, whoopee! It'll be another few years before more miles see increased speeds. They are still studying how to increase speeds on tracks between Joliet and Chicago, and Alton and St. Louis, where existing passenger trains see heavy freight rail congestion delays. Whether they will find more funding to finish the job, and to double track the line, hasn't been answered.

 

I'll be laying in a coffin 6 feet under before you'll see trains running even 110 mph through Fort Worth. Maybe you will be too. How long has Fort Worth waited for TexRail to receive federal funding for the much more desirable commuter train to DFW airport? And you expect it'll be easier to find more federal funds to build a HSR line to OKC and SA?



#34 gdvanc

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 06:34 PM

Got this from a tweet from the City of Arlington (the American Dream City):

 

Learn More About High Speed Rail in North Texas

 

Basically there will be three public meetings to allow local residents to learn about "a study conducted by the Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT) and Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) regarding a proposed high-speed passenger rail service between Fort Worth and Dallas".

 

The Fort Worth meeting will be at the ITC on Tuesday, November 18th.



#35 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 07:06 PM

Where's the dislike button?

 

Dear Arlington: This is supposed to be an intracity train, not a commuter train.


- Dylan


#36 RD Milhollin

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 07:57 PM

Arlington might surprise everyone by working out a compromise route straight up SH 360 with a stop between the stadiums and Centerport for all city users and a terminal stop at DFW airport. If the right of ways could be cleared, even with freeway frontage or medians, it might work...



#37 Electricron

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 01:59 AM



Arlington might surprise everyone by working out a compromise route straight up SH 360 with a stop between the stadiums and Centerport for all city users and a terminal stop at DFW airport. If the right of ways could be cleared, even with freeway frontage or medians, it might work...

Please read the Texas Central EIS, the most expensive projected routing between Dallas and Houston was immediately adjacent to I-45, so they have eliminated that route. 

 

It's not going to be cheaper  in suburban and urban areas to build rail adjacent to a freeway - but I will admit buying and building a rail corridor in suburban and urban areas will certainly be more expensive than doing so in rural areas. In suburban and urban areas, it might be cheaper to build adjacent to a freeway.

 

But why do so when there's a very wide rail corridor because it's really two parallel rail corridors into Dallas from the south? Please read the environmental studies, you just might learn some facts!



#38 renamerusk

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 09:08 AM

 

Please read the Texas Central EIS, the most expensive projected routing between Dallas and Houston was immediately adjacent to I-45, so they have eliminated that route.

 

Why read the Texas Central EIS; it has little to do with the TXDOT/FRA efforts of its own to build a separate HSR network; well maybe, except as a learning curve.

 

There appears to be a disconnect by TCR proponents who are unable to distinguish between two distinctive efforts. TCR is a "private" EIS that has its backers so completely hood winked in the belief that it can achieve HSR without public funds. The Fort Worth-Arlington-Dallas route is a publicly funded EIS with backing from federal, state and local agencies. TCR will be left at the conceptual stage and its investors, if any, will be stuck holding the bag once the public funded HSR completes its EIS and effectively take the wind out of the sails of TCR.

 

The I-30 route will connect downtown Fort Worth to downtown Dallas while TCR has no idea where it will locate its terminals. Having determined that decision already gives the momentum to the I-30 HSR and gives pause to potential investors of TCR who do not to this date know the final placement of its Dallas and Houston terminals. Interestingly, have there been numbers in dollars reported about the capital already raised from investors in TCR?

 

Again, TCR has nothing for Tarrant County; and therefore, is merely an interesting side-show for Fort Worth and Arlington. Attempting to convince us that we should care about TCR is as odd as attempting to convince us that I-45 is an interstate highway.



#39 Electricron

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 01:01 AM

Why read the Texas Central EIS; it has little to do with the TXDOT/FRA efforts of its own to build a separate HSR network; well maybe, except as a learning curve.

A learning curve is exactly what I was attempting to bring into this discussion.

 

I find it extremely hard to believe the construction costs along I-45, I-30, I-20, or along I-35 (E or W) will be significantly different. It shouldn't matter who is paying the bill, US, TX, or private enterprise, if one EIS discovers higher costs along freeways, maybe everyone should find that same basic fact.

 

End of line.



#40 johnfwd

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 09:34 AM

The FWBP article below is still another public notice of the upcoming HSR meetings being held in accordance with the environmental study process.   Such meetings are usually attended by public officials, stakeholders, and citizen activists, not the "general public."  But it does suggest the publicly funded Fort Worth-to-Dallas proposal may attract more interest than the privately-funded Dallas-to-Houston plan.  Especially so if the FW-D project is shown to be more environmentally friendly as well as being more economically and technically feasible.  One advantage the FW-D project may have over the Dallas-Houston HSR is the shorter geographic distance that it would cover.  Another advantage (perhaps) is that it would have fewer stopping points between the terminals.  The big drawback, as I see it, is getting the new stingy Republican-controlled Congress to help fund the FW-D project (simply a reality, not intended to be a politically partisan statement).

 

http://fwbusinesspre...-announced.aspx



#41 BlueMound

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 05:00 PM

Can High-Speed Rail Help Dallas Build a Great Transit System?

http://www.citylab.c...-system/382813/

 

High Speed Rail brings with it a new problem: The local transit system, run by DART, will have to be ready to handle the passenger spike.

 

So DART s is proposing a local rail transit expansion plan that will cost $983 million in order to accommodate the passenger spike

 

1. DART wants to lengthen platforms at 28 light rail stations outside the city to accommodate three-car trains, which can hold about 150 more passengers than the current two-car service.

2.DART would also like to build a new light rail alignment downtown to expand track capacity.

3. And it would like to expand the $51 million, two-mile downtown streetcar line set to open next year.



#42 BlueMound

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 05:14 PM

I guess that Dart is predicting that High Speed Rail passengers from Houston would rather use mass transit in Dallas versus renting a rental car.



#43 Electricron

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 08:10 AM

So DART s is proposing a local rail transit expansion plan that will cost $983 million in order to accommodate the passenger spike

 

1. DART wants to lengthen platforms at 28 light rail stations outside the city to accommodate three-car trains, which can hold about 150 more passengers than the current two-car service.

2.DART would also like to build a new light rail alignment downtown to expand track capacity.

3. And it would like to expand the $51 million, two-mile downtown streetcar line set to open next year.

All three of the above items were on DART's "To Do Lists" for a long time, long before Texas Central. Items one and two will be funded by DART with whatever Federal funds they can find, and item 3 will be funded by the City with whatever Federal funds they can find. DART has spent much of its available capital projects cash already. 

The question the news article was asking was whether HSR can help DART find more cash to build its "To Do Lists"? I'm sorry to write the article didn't answer its own question.....Disappointingly!



#44 fortworthhorn

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 09:48 AM

Hey there.

First time poster.

I went to the high speed rail meeting last night at the ITC.

It was interesting talking to a few of the people there.

 

Betsy Price spoke (prepared statement).

- must push rail

- high speed rail is a game changer

- can't build enough highways

- must be visionary

- she is in favor of the I-30 route

 

Councilman Espino also spoke and said the same things basically ("high speed rail is the future")

Arlington really wants in the game bad and they had a councilwoman there speak.

Of note she mentioned three stops (Dallas, FW, Arlington) while Sal and Betsy did not mention Arlington.

I know it doesn't really help out inter-city transportation issues but I was glad she came out and spoke in favor of it on the record.

 

One final note is that someone from Tarrant County basically said FW is fubar unless the Dallas stop is Union (Houston to Dallas leg)

If the Dallas stop is not downtown then there is no way to directly connect FW was his point.



#45 RD Milhollin

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 11:02 AM

"Front Page" (e-edition) story about HSR, Fort Worth, and last night's meeting:

 

http://www.star-tele...speed.html?rh=1

 

It is good to have the top Fed transportation guy interested in the project, but a stingy Congress still holds the purse strings. No mention here about the idea for a MTY-FTW-OKC route, and I think that is going to be important to convince funding sources that the DAL-FTW link is needed. Dallas has a feeder-distribution system in place for a downtown HSR station in DART, Fort Worth doesn't; that fact could be a game changer in getting the connector link built this time around. The cost of feet-dragging on transportation issues on our side of the metromess is going to be felt; playing catch-up is going to be expensive. I still have deep reservations about the need for a stop on a HSR link in Arlington; Arlington has never bought into public transit at all, Fort Worth at least has a bus system and partners with Dallas on the TRE. There are other rail options that would make more sense for the Mid-Cities including joining DART or partnering with Fort Worth and Dallas on a southern E-W commuter type train...either of these choices would connect them to the inter-regional systems in Dallas and (maybe, someday) Fort Worth.



#46 fortworthhorn

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 02:40 PM

"Front Page" (e-edition) story about HSR, Fort Worth, and last night's meeting:

 

http://www.star-tele...speed.html?rh=1

 

It is good to have the top Fed transportation guy interested in the project, but a stingy Congress still holds the purse strings. No mention here about the idea for a MTY-FTW-OKC route, and I think that is going to be important to convince funding sources that the DAL-FTW link is needed. Dallas has a feeder-distribution system in place for a downtown HSR station in DART, Fort Worth doesn't; that fact could be a game changer in getting the connector link built this time around. The cost of feet-dragging on transportation issues on our side of the metromess is going to be felt; playing catch-up is going to be expensive. I still have deep reservations about the need for a stop on a HSR link in Arlington; Arlington has never bought into public transit at all, Fort Worth at least has a bus system and partners with Dallas on the TRE. There are other rail options that would make more sense for the Mid-Cities including joining DART or partnering with Fort Worth and Dallas on a southern E-W commuter type train...either of these choices would connect them to the inter-regional systems in Dallas and (maybe, someday) Fort Worth.

One funny thing I forgot about the meeting.

This echoes the theory: "Fort Worth is not culturally ready for streetcars or [insert rail project here]"

They were having problems with the microphone going in and out.

So at one point this good ole Fort Worth senior citizen says out loud...

Paraphrasing - "If you can't get a microphone to work, how in the hell you gonna get a train to work"



#47 fortworthhorn

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 01:38 PM

Some skeptics came out in Big D:

http://www.dallasnew...keptics-say.ece



#48 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 08:45 PM

They seem to forget that Fort Worth wants a direct connection to Houston.

 

That said, I'm tempted to support expansion of the TRE instead of expanded HSR. With the money that would be saved, Tarrant County could build three or four brand new commuter rail light rail lines. We would be losing importance to Dallas, however.

 

------

 

Yes, I've edited this post a few times.


- Dylan


#49 fortworthhorn

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 08:50 PM

They seem to forget that Fort Worth wants a direct connection to Houston.

 

That said, I'm tempted to support expansion of the TRE instead of expanded HSR. With the money that would be saved, Tarrant County could build two or three brand new commuter light rail lines. We would be losing importance to Dallas, however.

I wish I shared your optimism on that front.

I suspect FW will not be getting light rail in my lifetime.

At this point, I would be happy with rapid bus.

But I will remain hopeful though.

I would let them build a station in my freaking driveway.



#50 Now in Denton

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 08:51 PM

If a Fort Worth stop makes no sense. Than a Arlington stop seems even more less likely. But I see it this way. The real goal is to link coast to coast. Just like the train system in the 1800's . You gotta start somewhere . To the north .Oklahoma, Kansas. Chicago will want to get in on this. To the west. Midland Odessa, Albuquergue, Phoenix on to LA. . Stops at Dallas and Fort Worth on high speed to me makes sense. And Light rail and buses for feeder links into the city. And I think we got to get Austin and San Antonio in the system somehow.






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