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Frost Tower - Jetta Operating to Build Downtown Office Building

Downtown Office New Construction Bennett Benner Partnership Frost Tower 640 Taylor

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#101 Jeriat

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:30 PM

Let's be realistic here.  If construction has not started by Labor Day, then there are probably delays in the project.  Most of you are not architects, but I can tell you that delays happen.  I currently have several projects on my desk that are on hold. 

 

 

 

I've just finished my first month in a firm (FJLC), my desk is across from Senior Arch. Norris McIntosh, and I can tell you in all honesty:

I believe you... 


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#102 JBB

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 10:02 PM

Let's be realistic here.  If construction has not started by Labor Day, then there are probably delays in the project.  Most of you are not architects, but I can tell you that delays happen.  I currently have several projects on my desk that are on hold.


I really hope it wasn't hard to see the tongue-and-cheekness in my post.

#103 John T Roberts

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 10:06 PM

It wasn't.  However, I did want to let the skeptics know that delays occur frequently.

 

Congratulations on finding work in an architectural firm!  Tell everyone over there, "Hello"!



#104 Jeriat

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 10:17 PM

 

So what will that look like on the skyline now that the rendering has been released?  

Think it might be a bit taller than someone had estimated in an earlier post.  

I'm curious how visible it will be from the west (view from Amon Carter Museum/ UNTHSC) and from the east, approaching downtown on Airport Freeway or I-30 around Gateway Park.  

 

I gotchu!

 

Airport Freeway

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30

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Southside

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Amon Carter (+267 ft River Tower)

hsYwPe1.jpg

 

It stands out pretty well! It's kinda an odd height for DTFW, there a weird gap between the pre-70-current buildings and some of the international boxes, then you've got the big 6 rising above that. It's a great filler, yet still tall enough it is visible from nearly all directions. 

 

 

It is a lot of garage, but I think it will be nice looking garage. I'm fine with that. 900 spaces is a lot. As long as we build them to look decent, its ok I guess. At least until we get better transit. I say we just build a 900 foot car elevator in the landmark lot and say no more :P

 

 

A little off topic... but good lord look at all those cracks in I-30. 


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#105 Jeriat

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 10:18 PM

It wasn't.  However, I did want to let the skeptics know that delays occur frequently.

 

Congratulations on finding work in an architectural firm!  Tell everyone over there, "Hello"!

 

Thanks. And I will.

I work under Bill and John Franz. Bill's supposed to be retiring soon. 


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#106 Austin55

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:17 PM

Screengrab from the NBC broadcast.

 

U3hEIVr.jpg



#107 BlueMound

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:35 PM

Looks damn good!

#108 NSFW

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 02:08 AM

The building looks great! I am just wondering if there will be any exterior lighting.  


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#109 johnfwd

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 06:35 AM

At the risk of repeating the kudos on this design, it's classy!  And a wonderful replacement for a parking lot.  I saw two surveyors on one of the lots yesterday and thought they might be doing this for the project.  (Incidentally, congrats on your new position, Jeriat!).



#110 renamerusk

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 09:41 AM

I am curious to find out how BBP will handle parking: subterranean or stacked: 1-retail+ 2-4 parking + 22 levels of class A space?.......Subterranean = 350 ft    Stacked = +400ft

 

 

What we really don't know at this time is if the 26 floors count the parking.  Even at what you call a stacked condition, it would lower the height of the building as comparing it with 26 floors of office space only.  Parking levels do not require the floor to floor height that office space requires.  A parking garage can usually be built with a 10' floor to floor dimension.

 

 

I also agree with you on the parking levels.  They are the largest floor plates.  I believe the Business Press stated that they were providing parking for their building, MorningStar Oil & Gas, and the Fort Worth Club.  If they did not provide parking for the Historic Electric Building residents, this virtually seals the fate of the old Hollywood Theater shell inside.  Without parking across the street, the theater will remain a parking garage.  I was actually hoping that this developer would have enough foresight to provide parking for that project, as well.  That would make restoration of the theater a possibility in the future. 

 

I have long been a proponent of  "better garages" and while I love the Omni Garage and like what the developers are planning for the Hilton Hotel Annex,  I don't much care for the Sundance/Bass Garage. 

 

I think JOT/B+BP has done a beautiful job in its below/above parking design.  I hope that this is the design concept of the future.  Found this in San Francisco that is similar to JOT (see floor plans/gallery)

- http://222second.com/building/gallery/

 

"What? the Hollywood Theater is now a parking garage --shameful" --- I hope that this new supply of parking coming on line from JOT will free up parking for the theater.  There ought to be a thread for the Hollywood Theater.



#111 John T Roberts

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 09:51 AM

There is one, but Fortworthology removed all of the photographs.  Here is the link:

 

http://www.fortworth...lywood +theater



#112 Fort Worthology

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 10:02 AM

They were on an old Flickr account of mine that's long deleted.  I don't know if I have them saved anywhere anymore.


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#113 Jeriat

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 11:44 AM

The building looks great! I am just wondering if there will be any exterior lighting.  


I could see LED lighting along the top and that edge of the square section of the building.

Like the BoA in Dallas.


And thanks for the congrats, guys.

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#114 renamerusk

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 04:37 PM

The building looks great! I am just wondering if there will be any exterior lighting.  

 

Post#86 has two renderings: day and night.  IMO, JOT needs no additional accent lighting...its looks awesome just as it is.



#115 johnfwd

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 06:54 AM

Walking by there yesterday I wondered about its effect on density in that particular area.  Then I was reminded that this new high-rise building is, in a way, not an addition but rather a replacement for the vacancy created when the nearby Landmark Tower (200 W 7th) was demolished.  Also, looking at the rendering from its aerial perspective it appears that the church building is going to be entirely "dwarfed"--that is, its remaining unobstructed view to the northeast will be eliminated.



#116 David Love

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 07:14 AM

WFAA "kinda" had a story on it: http://www.wfaa.com/...anned/24925889/

 

Was mostly about BBQ, but they did have some renderings... but seemed more of an excuse to talk about BBQ, but they did mention a 26 story building downtown. (Starts this summer.)

 

I'm starting to put a lot more credence in how downtown is planning its developments; that one building could solve the "west of Taylor street" curse, which has limited the viability of establishments.

 

Almost as if they just picked up and move the corner post of what is considered "downtown."

 

Here's a better story on it: http://www.nbcdfw.co...-296492721.html


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#117 John T Roberts

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 07:55 AM

From the rendering standpoint, it does appear that the new building is about the same height of the old Landmark Tower without the clock. 

 

David, I don't think one building will solve the "west of Taylor Street" curse, but any new development along and west of the street certainly won't hurt.  Until the old Monnig's Block is developed, there will be a visual connection to Sundance Square, so if the 12th floor restaurant is a place that becomes a "destination", then there is hope that more commercial activity will push westward. 



#118 John T Roberts

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 08:02 AM

I also didn't realize that NBC5 had vague details about the height of the building.  Obviously that was only presented at the DDRB meeting, since no one else picked up on it. 



#119 brownjd

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 08:04 AM

Screengrab from the NBC broadcast.

 

U3hEIVr.jpg

 

Judging from the previous posts, I must be in the minority in not liking this design. The notched out balcony reminds me of the two shining examples of brutalist architecture nearby. The tacked on shiny-shiny screens of glass remind me of the Museum place "flat iron". In short, it looks like a 80's glass box with a some tacked on panels and a notch for a balcony. 

 

I'm excited as everyone else about a new building to replace a parking lot, but I just don't get the kudos on the design. I recognize that this may be a matter of taste, but clearly I am missing something if you all think it is great.

 

Because I seek to learn, can someone post a more in depth critique of the design and why it is so great?



#120 Fort Worthology

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 09:56 AM

I should expand upon my thoughts, because I find your post stirs me to consider my opinions.

 

In my opinion, honestly, I don't think this building is any kind of remarkable masterpiece, or anything.  It is, as you say, a glass box with some panels and a notch.  It isn't in any notable way different from countless similar buildings in other cities (it looks to me like it could just as easily be in Uptown Dallas).  It's a nicely executed, professionally handled glass box with some panels and a notch, but yeah, it's not all that original/striking.

 

I do like it, though, as while it is not in any way remarkable, it's also not in any way (that we can see) awful.  It's the very definition of a "background building," which is exactly what it should be IMHO.  It fills a dead space in the city with something that is perfectly agreeable if not strikingly original/beautiful, and it makes things better for its presence without calling a ton of attention to itself in some kind of solipsistic "look at meeeeeeee" fashion a la a starchitect building.

 

What's more, if the info we've got so far on its pedestrian interactions is accurate, while as a piece of design it's not all that remarkable, it does seem to be doing everything right in terms of what a building in an urban setting should be doing first and foremost: it's enhancing the public realm and making people want to be around it.  It'll have nice wide sidewalks, engaging ground floor businesses and interactions, etc.  That aspect of the development gets it a lot of brownie points in my book, as it's easy for an office developer to skimp on such things, particularly when the building is outside of the active core of downtown and in a part that is, honestly, just as dead as the dead parts of other cities we say Fort Worth has a "better" downtown than.  I appreciate that the developer and designer are going the extra mile to do the right thing (while "the extra mile" should, in fact, be the norm, it very often isn't - witness the nothingness that is the ground floor of nearby Cantey-Hangar Plaza, etc. - so I applaud them for it all the same).

 

And also, another way I like the building is that while it's, as I've said, not really all that remarkable or interesting as a piece of design, when placed into its context it comes across as more interesting.  It's got great historic buildings in close proximity, plus a '60s tower that's not all *that* bad (500 W. 7th) and a brutalist piece of garbage over at the park that towers above all else, both of which are very "concrete-y."  So in that context, this glassy notch box is kind of like a splash of cold water in the face, like a '60s International Style glass box can be.  It's refreshing.  Now, I'd hate a huge stretch of buildings like this - it'd be monotonous and repetitive and dull - but as an accent here and there, I enjoy the contrast.


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#121 renamerusk

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 10:56 AM

In my opinion, honestly, I don't think this building is any kind of remarkable masterpiece, or anything.  It is, as you say, a glass box with some panels and a notch.  It isn't in any notable way different from countless similar buildings in other cities (it looks to me like it could just as easily be in Uptown Dallas).  It's a nicely executed, professionally handled glass box with some panels and a notch, but yeah, it's not all that original/striking.....I do like it, though, as while it is not in any way remarkable, it's also not in any way (that we can see) awful......And also, another way I like the building is that while it's, as I've said, not really all that remarkable or interesting as a piece of design, when placed into its context it comes across as more interesting.... So in that context, this glassy notch box is kind of like a splash of cold water in the face, like a '60s International Style glass box can be.  It's refreshing.  Now, I'd hate a huge stretch of buildings like this - it'd be monotonous and repetitive and dull - but as an accent here and there, I enjoy the contrast.

 

Great points.

 

I will disagree somewhat with the "Uptown Dallas" inclusion.  The architecture on display in UD, with the possible exception of the Ritz Carlton, is a quilt best described with the comment "monotonous and repetitive. I suggest that the JOT,  as does the Museum Tower in the Dallas Arts District, would standout within the cookie-cutter skyline of UD because as JOT will do within its immediate Downtown surrounding it would also do if it were theoretically located in UD. 

 

JOT is a nice splash and it is far from being brutalistic.



#122 johnfwd

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 12:35 PM

 

In my opinion, honestly, I don't think this building is any kind of remarkable masterpiece, or anything.  It is, as you say, a glass box with some panels and a notch.  It isn't in any notable way different from countless similar buildings in other cities (it looks to me like it could just as easily be in Uptown Dallas).  It's a nicely executed, professionally handled glass box with some panels and a notch, but yeah, it's not all that original/striking.....I do like it, though, as while it is not in any way remarkable, it's also not in any way (that we can see) awful......And also, another way I like the building is that while it's, as I've said, not really all that remarkable or interesting as a piece of design, when placed into its context it comes across as more interesting.... So in that context, this glassy notch box is kind of like a splash of cold water in the face, like a '60s International Style glass box can be.  It's refreshing.  Now, I'd hate a huge stretch of buildings like this - it'd be monotonous and repetitive and dull - but as an accent here and there, I enjoy the contrast.

 

Great points.

 

I will disagree somewhat with the "Uptown Dallas" inclusion.  The architecture on display in UD, with the possible exception of the Ritz Carlton, is a quilt best described with the comment "monotonous and repetitive. I suggest that the JOT,  as does the Museum Tower in the Dallas Arts District, would standout within the cookie-cutter skyline of UD because as JOT will do within its immediate Downtown surrounding it would also do if it was theoretically located in UD. 

 

JOT is a nice splash and far from being brutalistic

I I think I agree with your points, as well.  The design is okay, but not a masterpiece.  (I know some earlier posts questioned whether the project architectural firm could handle a high rise in light of its current portfolio of low-rise buildings).  The question I have is, what is a "masterpiece" of a downtown high-rise building these days?  Anyone have an exemplary design of a skyscraper already built here or elsewhere to show?



#123 Austin55

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 12:35 PM

If Jetta was built where Pier 1 is, it would look awkward. If Pier 1 was built where Jetta will be, it'd look awkward.

#124 RD Milhollin

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:02 PM

Walking by there yesterday I wondered about its effect on density in that particular area.  Then I was reminded that this new high-rise building is, in a way, not an addition but rather a replacement for the vacancy created when the nearby Landmark Tower (200 W 7th) was demolished.  Also, looking at the rendering from its aerial perspective it appears that the church building is going to be entirely "dwarfed"--that is, its remaining unobstructed view to the northeast will be eliminated.

 

About time the CNB/Landmark Building was replaced... nothing bad about that. As for the church, I thought the same thing as you when I saw the initial drawings; it made me think that it resembles on a much smaller scale the effect on St. Pat's in Manhattan when looking at it in the context of its location across the street from Rockefeller Center: a significant building in it's own right appears dwarfed when sited next to a significantly larger (taller) building.



#125 JBB

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:25 PM

This is my completed un-architecturally-educated opinion, but I like it because it is relatively interesting as far as modern design goes and it is quite a bit different from anything else in town. I liked the Omni for similar reasons. It doesn't blow me away, but it's different.

In the end, how the base looks and interacts with the street level is much more important than the overall design.

#126 brownjd

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:42 PM

I should expand upon my thoughts, because I find your post stirs me to consider my opinions.

 

In my opinion, honestly, I don't think this building is any kind of remarkable masterpiece, or anything.  It is, as you say, a glass box with some panels and a notch.  It isn't in any notable way different from countless similar buildings in other cities (it looks to me like it could just as easily be in Uptown Dallas).  It's a nicely executed, professionally handled glass box with some panels and a notch, but yeah, it's not all that original/striking.

 

I do like it, though, as while it is not in any way remarkable, it's also not in any way (that we can see) awful.  It's the very definition of a "background building," which is exactly what it should be IMHO.  It fills a dead space in the city with something that is perfectly agreeable if not strikingly original/beautiful, and it makes things better for its presence without calling a ton of attention to itself in some kind of solipsistic "look at meeeeeeee" fashion a la a starchitect building.

 

What's more, if the info we've got so far on its pedestrian interactions is accurate, while as a piece of design it's not all that remarkable, it does seem to be doing everything right in terms of what a building in an urban setting should be doing first and foremost: it's enhancing the public realm and making people want to be around it.  It'll have nice wide sidewalks, engaging ground floor businesses and interactions, etc.  That aspect of the development gets it a lot of brownie points in my book, as it's easy for an office developer to skimp on such things, particularly when the building is outside of the active core of downtown and in a part that is, honestly, just as dead as the dead parts of other cities we say Fort Worth has a "better" downtown than.  I appreciate that the developer and designer are going the extra mile to do the right thing (while "the extra mile" should, in fact, be the norm, it very often isn't - witness the nothingness that is the ground floor of nearby Cantey-Hangar Plaza, etc. - so I applaud them for it all the same).

 

And also, another way I like the building is that while it's, as I've said, not really all that remarkable or interesting as a piece of design, when placed into its context it comes across as more interesting.  It's got great historic buildings in close proximity, plus a '60s tower that's not all *that* bad (500 W. 7th) and a brutalist piece of garbage over at the park that towers above all else, both of which are very "concrete-y."  So in that context, this glassy notch box is kind of like a splash of cold water in the face, like a '60s International Style glass box can be.  It's refreshing.  Now, I'd hate a huge stretch of buildings like this - it'd be monotonous and repetitive and dull - but as an accent here and there, I enjoy the contrast.

 

 

I think your point about it being a reasonable background building is fair. I agree it is unremarkable, which is why the praises for it caused me to wonder what I was missing. I *really* like the surrounding historic buildings, but I agree we probably need some variety. It could have been significantly worse.

 

Did you derive your information on the pedestrian interactions from this image? Or is there better information elsewhere?

 

 

 

JettaOverall%20Site%20Plan.jpg



#127 David Love

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 03:26 PM

From the rendering standpoint, it does appear that the new building is about the same height of the old Landmark Tower without the clock. 

 

David, I don't think one building will solve the "west of Taylor Street" curse, but any new development along and west of the street certainly won't hurt.  Until the old Monnig's Block is developed, there will be a visual connection to Sundance Square, so if the 12th floor restaurant is a place that becomes a "destination", then there is hope that more commercial activity will push westward. 

 

I'm thinking with a rather large structure putting itself between that section of Taylor Street and Sundance Square, could increase more pedestrian traffic "not" totally focused on where they parked their car. So my logic is that with more foot traffic in the area, you have a greater potential for retail traffic and with more retail traffic, you push the alcohol only establishments more to the edges. ...just a theory.


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#128 renamerusk

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 03:57 PM

...The question I have is, what is a "masterpiece" of a downtown high-rise building these days?  Anyone have an exemplary design of a skyscraper already built here or elsewhere to show?

 

I think your question is spot on!

 

I do not agree with the rush of negative energy that this project has generated in only 48 hours.  I too would like to see the "perfect" skyscraper that seems to be asked for.

 

My only regret is that it will not be a 40-story structure.



#129 Austin55

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 04:03 PM

  The question I have is, what is a "masterpiece" of a downtown high-rise building these days?  Anyone have an exemplary design of a skyscraper already built here or elsewhere to show?

 

This could be a fun topic on its own. 



#130 Fort Worthology

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 04:31 PM

 

 

I do not agree with the rush of negative energy that this project has generated in only 48 hours.  I too would like to see the "perfect" skyscraper that seems to be asked for.

 

My only regret is that it will not be a 40-story structure.

 

 

What rush of negative energy?  The vast majority of comments have been positive, as far as I can tell.


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#131 johnfwd

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 04:40 PM

 

  The question I have is, what is a "masterpiece" of a downtown high-rise building these days?  Anyone have an exemplary design of a skyscraper already built here or elsewhere to show?

 

This could be a fun topic on its own. 

 

Actually, we here on this Forum have imaginative and thoughtful students of architecture--Jeriat and Austin55, notably--who have created designs for show, some of which are exemplary.  One would hope that they can carry their ideas into realization in the marketplace.  I trust that architectural firms (like those of other professions) hire those who are talented,and encourage and implement rather than stifle creativity in those who work on their projects.



#132 John T Roberts

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 08:04 PM

Johnfwd, as you know, I'm an architect and I haven't weighed in on my opinion of this building.  One of the reasons that I have not is that I don't think the information that has been released so far is enough information for me to form an honest opinion.  I tend to agree with most of the comments expressed here so far.  I would really like to see more detailed renderings of the base of the building. 

 

I don't think this building has to be a "masterpiece", but it does need to do a better job than some of the others that have been built in the city, especially the buildings of the 1980's.  It is a little different, in that it has an "L" shaped podium that wraps around an existing structure.  The tower rises on a half block rectangle. 

 

Kevin mentioned Cantey Hanger Plaza in his earlier post.  For the record, that building was designed by the same architectural firm, although that was two name changes ago. 



#133 renamerusk

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 10:13 PM

 

I do not agree with the rush of negative energy that this project has generated in only 48 hours.  I too would like to see the "perfect" skyscraper that seems to be asked for.

 

My only regret is that it will not be a 40-story structure.

 

What rush of negative energy?  The vast majority of comments have been positive, as far as I can tell.

 

 

 


 

I should expand upon my thoughts, because I find your post stirs me to consider my opinions.

 

In my opinion, honestly, I don't think this building is any kind of remarkable masterpiece, or anything.  It is, as you say, a glass box with some panels and a notch.  It isn't in any notable way different from countless similar buildings in other cities... but yeah, it's not all that original/striking.

 

I do like it, though, as while it is not in any way remarkable...

 

What's more, if the info we've got so far on its pedestrian interactions is accurate, while as a piece of design it's not all that remarkable....

 

And also, another way I like the building is that while it's, as I've said, not really all that remarkable or interesting as a piece of design.....

 

 

 

Density and wide sidewalks are not mutually exclusive.....This section of downtown is pretty dead and a bit off the beaten path, and I'm not asking for this building to have three restaurants or anything in it.  But the ground floor should still be welcoming and not deaden the street - at least should have no blank walls or pitch black tinted windows, some kind of attractive entrance, and some architectural details that make it pleasant to be around.  And the sidewalks should be at least as wide as most sidewalks downtown are now, and it'd be great if they would at least put some trees along the curb.

 

True the comments have been vastly positive; but also true there is IMO already a rush of negativity being voiced. While I am not overlooking all of the positive comments, I am also not overlooking the disparing comments either.

 

Were we not bemoaning the fact that Fort Worth was seemingly missing out on the Dallas, Houston and Austin building booms?  I, for one, am more than satisfied to see something other than a five/six story Schwartz building.

 

And accordingly to what was being asked for prior to its unveiling, JOT has met or surpassed the wall test, the sidewalk test, the attractive entrance test and the tree test.  I would like to know what is the "perfect" building?



#134 gdvanc

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 10:59 PM

I don't think his saying he doesn't find the design remarkable colors his remarks as negative. It's certainly possible to like a building - to even be excited about it - and to feel it has a very positive overall impact on its environment without thinking the design is in the running for AIA recognition.

 

And the March 1st comment - that was over two weeks ago (before we even knew what the building looked like) and can therefore not technically be considered part of a rush of negative energy. Statute of limitations and all. Plus it's not really even a negative comment about the building; just an observation on some things that work and don't work in terms of being inviting to pedestrians and amblers and the like.



#135 Fort Worthology

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 11:14 PM

I don't think his saying he doesn't find the design remarkable colors his remarks as negative. It's certainly possible to like a building - to even be excited about it - and to feel it has a very positive overall impact on its environment without thinking the design is in the running for AIA recognition.

 

 

Yes, this, exactly.  I like the building and am excited about it.  I just don't think it's a crazy remarkable design.  The two statements aren't mutually exclusive.


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#136 Jeriat

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 12:17 AM

Look, as far as the design goes, I'm just glad it doesn't look like Burnett or the AT&T. The majority of comments are positive. 

It's a nice, sleek, modern design and really, you can't ask for much more other than how it will look at street level, and that's been covered. 

The height is fine, as well. I think it's good to have five 300 footers for every one that's 40 floors or higher. Gotta build more density, ya know? 


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#137 hannerhan

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 08:02 AM

 

  The question I have is, what is a "masterpiece" of a downtown high-rise building these days?  Anyone have an exemplary design of a skyscraper already built here or elsewhere to show?

 

This could be a fun topic on its own. 

 

 

 

I think the Shanghai World Financial Center is the prettiest skyscraper built in the past couple of decades.  Obviously we aren't going to get something this tall, but when Fort Worth finally gets a new tallest building, I hope it's along those lines...tapering toward the top, thinner profile to contrast the blocky 80's buildings, and some interesting design feature distinguishing it.  And put it on top of the old Landmark Tower so it's right in the middle.

 

17-WFC.jpg



#138 RD Milhollin

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 08:36 AM

 

I think the Shanghai World Financial Center is the prettiest skyscraper built in the past couple of decades.  Obviously we aren't going to get something this tall, but when Fort Worth finally gets a new tallest building, I hope it's along those lines...tapering toward the top, thinner profile to contrast the blocky 80's buildings, and some interesting design feature distinguishing it.  And put it on top of the old Landmark Tower so it's right in the middle.

 

 

Not very good street-level interaction though... I suppose you can't have everything in one building. I agree the overall design including the tapering shape and the signature crown is spectacular.



#139 renamerusk

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 09:27 AM

Johnfwd, as you know, I'm an architect and I haven't weighed in on my opinion of this building.  One of the reasons that I have not is that I don't think the information that has been released so far is enough information for me to form an honest opinion.  I tend to agree with most of the comments expressed here so far.  I would really like to see more detailed renderings of the base of the building.

 

 

Look, as far as the design goes, I'm just glad it doesn't look like Burnett or the AT&T. The majority of comments are positive. 

It's a nice, sleek, modern design and really, you can't ask for much more other than how it will look at street level, and that's been covered.

 

So its about 72 hours since a grand total of two renderings of JOT have been made public, and it is already being labeled unofficially as "unremarkable". I think that qualifies as being a rush to judgement. Of course, I am rushed to ask "show me what would be and is remarkable?"   Is there a building in Texas that is remarkable?

 

John and Jeriat, being architects, have taken the sensible approach by withholding their opinions until more details are published. I respect their approach.  We have a private company investing $100m in our downtown and who has also placed its investment in the hands of a local firm, B+BP. It is possible that one, both or some of their employees read this blog.

 

Until the public has seen a more complete set of renderings of the whole project, the disparging comments are premature and the acftions of habitual criticism . I am perfectly content to wait for the finished product to actually experience JOT. Time will tell.

 

I think that JOT is happening is remarkable in itself.



#140 BlueMound

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 10:07 AM

I like the design. I think the Jetta bldg will be great.
Plus I like and appreciate the work of B+BP.

#141 John T Roberts

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 10:25 AM

Rename, I will have to reply to the rest of your post later when I have more time, but I would also like to say that I prefer not to make my final judgments on a building until it is finished. 

 

As for who reads this forum, you just never know.  There are many people in this city who do read what is posted here on a daily basis, and they prefer to remain anonymous. 



#142 hannerhan

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 10:29 AM

 

Is there a building in Texas that is remarkable?

 

 

Don't disagree with your overall point, and I actually really like the building.  But yes, there are absolutely buildings in Texas that are remarkable.  Pennzoil Place and Fountain Place being the first two that come to mind for me personally, but plenty more could be on the list.



#143 Fort Worthology

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 12:40 PM

So its about 72 hours since a grand total of two renderings of JOT have been made public, and it is already being labeled unofficially as "unremarkable". I think that qualifies as being a rush to judgement. Of course, I am rushed to ask "show me what would be and is remarkable?"   Is there a building in Texas that is remarkable?

 

John and Jeriat, being architects, have taken the sensible approach by withholding their opinions until more details are published. I respect their approach.  We have a private company investing $100m in our downtown and who has also placed its investment in the hands of a local firm, B+BP. It is possible that one, both or some of their employees read this blog.

 

Until the public has seen a more complete set of renderings of the whole project, the disparging comments are premature and the acftions of habitual criticism . I am perfectly content to wait for the finished product to actually experience JOT. Time will tell.

 

I think that JOT is happening is remarkable in itself.

 

 

 

Criminy...

 

1.  "It's not all that remarkable or unique, but it's attractive and well executed and I like it" is not a "disparaging comment," and if you think it is, then I don't see a way forward in this discussion.  That's just "having a positive opinion that isn't 300% OMG IT ARE AMAZEBALLS."

 

2.  It is not a "rush to judgement" or "habitual criticism" to form an initial opinion on a project that we have seen multiple renderings of from multiple angles as well as a site plan and quite a few details in written form (and ever think maybe I've seen a view or two that you haven't?).  That is called "being an observer."  brownjd asked why so many of us were excited about the project, and I elaborated on my feelings which, despite not thinking the building is the second coming of Architecture Jesus, I like it and am excited about it.  It's not a rush to judgement to take several publicly-available pieces of information and express an opinion based on them.

 

3.  So my saying "this building isn't all that remarkable but that's OK and it's also well executed and I like it" is disparaging and a rush to judgement and offensive because somebody from the design firm might be reading, but you saying things like the proposed Water Gardens modifications are "moronic" and cracking jokes at the mayor based on nothing more than a couple of quotes and a blurry site plan is perfectly fine and not a rush to judgement and not offensive to anybody from the city or the firm involved who might be reading?  Pot, kettle, etc.  I'm not allowed to form an opinion based on several clear renderings of a building - I should shut my mouth and wait until it's finished and I can see it in person before I express any opinion at all - but it's A-OK for you to slag off on something we've never seen a clear look at?  That dog, as they say, don't hunt.


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#144 John T Roberts

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 12:52 PM

I never thought I would say this about comments regarding a new building in downtown, but I think everyone is going to need to take a step back on this subject.  If you are wondering why I'm not expressing more opinions on the building, my reasons are personal.  I would be willing to share them with any of you via PM, this evening.

 

I'm going to be leading a downtown tour this afternoon for the Art Libraries Society of North America whose conference is in town through the weekend.  This group also includes architectural librarians.  I will be out of touch for a few hours.  So, please don't make any personal comments about people on the forum while I'm leading the tour. 



#145 renamerusk

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 01:00 PM

 

 

Is there a building in Texas that is remarkable?

 

 

Don't disagree with your overall point, and I actually really like the building.  But yes, there are absolutely buildings in Texas that are remarkable.  Pennzoil Place and Fountain Place being the first two that come to mind for me personally, but plenty more could be on the list.

 

 

Honestly, I did think of the Pennzoil Place and consider Fountain Place to be a valid candidate.  I believe these buildings were constructed during the 70's-80's.  I would argue at the time of their opening that they were projected to redefine the skylines of their respective cities.  While Pennzoil Place does not so much define Houston skyline today, Fountain Place still more or less does in Dallas.  JOT, I would argue cannot redefine the Fort Worth skyline and it is, as has been more accurately described as being, a "fill in" project if that is a proper analogy. 

 

The next, if ever, super tall skyscraper project for Fort Worth will and should be judged on whether it is remarkable or not by skyline defining projects like BOA in Dallas or the tower in OKC. 

 

There have been several "fill in" projects recently in Texas that JOT "blows their door off".  It is in this context that JOT in my opinion does not deserve to be tagged as being "unremarkable".



#146 cberen1

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 02:46 PM

Hard to believe we're getting hung up on this, but, what the hell, I'll weigh in.

 

By definition, if the design of a building is so impactful as to be considered "remarkable", I believe it would be so immediately.  You would take one look and say "Wow, that's remarkable."  I would suggest that this really only applies to a small percentage of buildings. 

 

For arguments sake, let's arbitrarily say the top 2 - 5% of designs are "remarkable."  Compared to the last 20 new skyscraper designs I've seen, is JOT clearly at the top of the list from a design standpoint?  Well, no, it probably didn't jump out at me to that degree.  I do definitely remember not having any particular negative thoughts about it, which puts it in the top third.  But I can't recall any part of it making me say "Wow, that's really unique or innovative." 

 

The shame of it is that we're judging it solely on it's shape and assumed materials.  Good design encompasses so much more.

 

Overall, I like it.  I think it's a good project and good for downtown, and might even be the best thing you can do with a rather small L-shaped lot.  I'm exceedingly glad to see it underway.



#147 SurplusPopulation

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 04:25 PM

I don't mind this building's design, but I'm extremely excited that it is being built and about its location. Overall, I'm a little burned out on the current style of 'blocky' architecture (don't know what it's really called) that we see on most new 'urban' structures. But as far as that style is concerned I think it's alright.

#148 David Love

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 04:43 PM

I've found that the more things something is capable of the less pleasing to the eye they tend to be. Yes, there are exceptions. 

 

As buildings go, people are going to park there, eat and drink there, live there, work there, all in a very small footprint and within a set budget which I'm assuming is aimed at ensuring a viable, profitable operation. I'm much more impressed with what something is capable of doing. 

 

So far I've not seen anything that I actually "dislike" about it, but I've only seen a couple CAD images and a footprint. ...and now I have a craving for BBQ I can't quite explain. 

 

I'd like to see more of what it's actually going to look like on the interior, how they deal with the transitions from parking to office to retail to living. 


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#149 renamerusk

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 11:53 PM


...to form an initial opinion on a project that we have seen multiple renderings of from multiple angles as well as a site plan and quite a few details in written form (and ever think maybe I've seen a view or two that you haven't?).....  It's not a rush to judgement to take several publicly-available pieces of information and express an opinion based on them.

 

3.  So my saying "this building isn't all that remarkable but that's OK and it's also well executed and I like it" is disparaging and a rush to judgement and offensive because somebody from the design firm might be reading, but you saying things like the proposed Water Gardens modifications are "moronic" and cracking jokes at the mayor based on nothing more than a couple of quotes and a blurry site plan....I'm not allowed to form an opinion based on several clear renderings of a building - I should shut my mouth and wait until it's finished and I can see it in person before I express any opinion at all - but it's A-OK for you to slag off on something we've never seen a clear look at? 

 

"Criminy - how about YELP-y"

 

I am obviously at a disadvantage here.  I have seen only 2-3 renderings while presumably you have seen several renderings that have yet to be made widely public and that you have read quite a few of the written details that were kept secret. Who could have known without some form of disclosure that you work for either Jetta or B+BP or that  you had the benefit of an insider's perspective?

 

I stand behind my remarks regarding the Water Gardens.  I do not think it is the prerogative of subsequent generations to make alterations to original works of art or ones that are universally considered a masterpiece.  Conservation and preservation - Yes!  I will be appalled when the mayor takes a jackhammer to the walls of the Water Gardens to achieve the modifications and to install a restaurant. It is the right of citizenship to protest and to bring question to elected officials. If this generation can do whatever it pleases, then other generations should be able to do so too; and such actions would be travesty   Maybe the next County Judge will want to paint the Tarrant County Courthouse in the latest fashionable color. Call it progress if you have a mind to, but these acts cannot be respect for the art or the artist.

 

A with that said, I think it is time for me to stand down.



#150 Doohickie

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 08:11 AM

The building looks great! I am just wondering if there will be any exterior lighting.  

 

I have little doubt that it will be lined with color-shifting LEDs as is the fashion these days.


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