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New "crown" for Burnett Plaza (From as far back as 2008)


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#1 Jeriat

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:57 PM

Ok, I found what I was talking about in another thread a few weeks ago (completely by accident) about how the Burnett might look better with a different topper, at least. Here are the renderings, and....

 

Burnetteplaza.jpg?t=1165376052

 

I gotta admit, neither one of these really seem that much better from what I remember. But maybe you can find something in it?


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#2 johnfwd

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:47 AM

Jeriat, interesting options for the Burnett top.  From your knowledge, is changing the top of a high rise a common occurrence, or is it rare, and have you seen it done?



#3 Jeriat

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:59 AM

Jeriat, interesting options for the Burnett top.  From your knowledge, is changing the top of a high rise a common occurrence, or is it rare, and have you seen it done?

 

I usually see more re-cladding than changing the tops of buildings. Like First Canadian Place

 

B+H_UC-First-Canadian-Place_TA_06.jpg

 

StoneToronto.jpg

 

I'd hope they do something like this for 777 Main, as well. Like adding a silver strip in between each floor. 


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#4 John T Roberts

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:25 PM

Recladding the existing exterior is more common than adding a crown or top to a building.  A couple of local buildings that have had their tops altered were The Tower here in Fort Worth and Renaissance Tower in Dallas.  Both of these projects included altering the exterior walls.  The Tower had balconies integrated within the existing structure and a new curtain wall system.  The Renaissance Tower received new glazing in a pattern replacing the reflective glazing it had previously.



#5 JBB

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:29 PM

I've always thought something like in the upper right photo would be better than the current top.  Just extending the "box" across the entire top of the building, more or less.  I don't know that any of those options really does much to improve my overall opinion of the building.



#6 cberen1

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:53 PM

Of those, I like the second row, first from the left.  I wonder if you could do it in a beige translucent panel or a beige wire mesh that you could back light.



#7 Austin55

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 06:12 PM

I have to say... besides the "paint to match" option, I dislike all of them.

 

Don't forget the Verizon reclad to

3241806291_18bb333d5c.jpg  verizon_building_battery_park_city_offic



#8 Jeriat

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:17 PM

I have to say... besides the "paint to match" option, I dislike all of them.

 

Don't forget the Verizon reclad to

3241806291_18bb333d5c.jpg  verizon_building_battery_park_city_offic


Yeah.... not very much you can do to make Burnett look pretty. 

As far as re-cladding this thing goes, probably the best way to go would be to paint it, like City Place. Not sure how the structure is, though. Wish I had some blueprints. 

 

Also, I'd prefer Verison's look over Burnett's. 


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#9 John T Roberts

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:37 PM

Burnett Plaza is poured in place concrete.  Everything on the outside is structural.  On the interior, it's almost column-free. 



#10 Jeriat

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:51 AM

Burnett Plaza is poured in place concrete.  Everything on the outside is structural.  On the interior, it's almost column-free. 


Ah... thought so. 

 

Well, looks like the best lipstick on that pig would be to paint it. 


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#11 cberen1

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:17 AM

Some thought (however ill conceived it may have been) and effort went into making it look the way it does.  Yes, beige is boring, but it's not without its merits.  Paint it once and it will forever be a maintenence nightmare.  Also, it's not a straight up, grey, smooth conrete standard finish.  It's very coarse. I would never recommend painting that concrete.  If you owned the building, painting it would almost certainly be a poor financial decision in that you would make no more money, but you would forever incur higher operating/maintenance costs.



#12 John T Roberts

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:01 AM

I'm never a fan of painting a material that was never meant to be painted in the first place.  Cberen1 is right.  Painting the building would create a major maintenance issue in the future.  Who knows, when the building is 50 years old, it may be appreciated for it's architectural style.



#13 Austin55

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:25 PM

Yea, I'd agree, Burnett's problem is the park it covers and not the way it looks. 



#14 Jeriat

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 05:10 PM

I'm never a fan of painting a material that was never meant to be painted in the first place.  Cberen1 is right.  Painting the building would create a major maintenance issue in the future.  Who knows, when the building is 50 years old, it may be appreciated for it's architectural style.

Key words there are "may be". 

I'd rather look for SOMETHING to dress it up a little. 

At the very least, some kind of panel covering like the apartments below:

Post_Lamar_01.jpg

 

Speaking of which, I was walking by today, and thought of what it would look like if it was converted into apartments. The park side would be easy, but the Cherry St. side is a killer.  


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#15 Dismuke

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 07:35 PM

Here's the solution to Burnett Plaza:

 

1) Tear down the ugly parking lot to its west and replace it with a very cool looking building tall enough to obscure most of the ugliness from the west.

 

2) Move the park it its east to the lot where Landmark Tower used to stand and replace it with a very cool looking building tall enough to obscure most of the ugliness from the east.

 

The north and south facades are ugly too, of course.  But they are narrow enough that the blight on the skyline is minimized.

 

3) After the new buildings are completed Burnett Plaza will become less desirable to tenants because most of the windows will now only over look the side of a very close by building.

 

4) After a few years the building will become so unprofitable that it will be shuttered.

 

5)  The owners of the two buildings built to blot it out decide to buy Burnett Plaza for very little money and pay to have the thing imploded.   They then build something cool where the building once stood.


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#16 Austin55

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 07:42 PM

No way is Burnett Park going anyplace. TBH if it was'nt for the Park, the building wouldn't be that bad at all.



#17 JBB

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:09 PM

Yeah, I think the tounge-in-cheekiness of Dismuke's post was lost on you.  :)



#18 John T Roberts

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:26 AM

Here's an old picture taken in early 2005 of the end view of Burnett Plaza.  I thought I would share.  The building is 90 feet wide and 567 feet tall on this side.

burnett-end.jpg



#19 Dismuke

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:54 AM

I wonder if the architect who designed the yellow awning in the foreground of the photo was the same as the one who designed Burnett Plaza in the background.   Both structures seem to be based on similar aesthetic premises.


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#20 Brian Luenser

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:15 PM

I am not crazy about the looks of Burnett Plaza, but I am not offended by it either.  There are uglier buildings for sure.  (The Fort Worth Convention Center is the ugliest building in Texas. Primarily the new, expensive South half.)   The coloring and design of the bricks make me nauseous.  The Burnett Plaza building is at least very formidable and efficient looking. (Space efficient)   Big.  Tall.  Business.

I would be happy enough if they got some colored lighting to make the place a bit fun looking.  That goes for most every building in town.  Maybe just the crown.  Some massive colored lights or light panels. 


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#21 Jeriat

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:30 PM

I am not crazy about the looks of Burnett Plaza, but I am not offended by it either.  There are uglier buildings for sure.  (The Fort Worth Convention Center is the ugliest building in Texas. Primarily the new, expensive South half.)   The coloring and design of the bricks make me nauseous.  The Burnett Plaza building is at least very formidable and efficient looking. (Space efficient)   Big.  Tall.  Business.

I would be happy enough if they got some colored lighting to make the place a bit fun looking.  That goes for most every building in town.  Maybe just the crown.  Some massive colored lights or light panels. 


Yes, there are uglier buildings, but BP is the TALLEST skyscraper in the city and most noticeable. You couldn't miss it even if you were blindfolded. 

.... also, this has to be the first time I've ever heard (or in this case, seen) anyone refer to the Convention Center as ugly, let alone "ugliest in Texas". The east side, maybe. The UFO arena, definitely! But even if you don't like the Convention Center, hey, at least it doesn't stick out from miles away. 

And yes, there really does need to be better lighting on Burnett and 777 Main. The 1980's Christmas lighting really only works on the City Center towers. Maybe because they're both in Sundance Square and the lights are few and spread out.  It just looks tacky on the other two I mentioned. 


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#22 ramjet

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:59 PM

Here's the solution to Burnett Plaza:

 

1) Tear down the ugly parking lot to its west and replace it with a very cool looking building tall enough to obscure most of the ugliness from the west.

 

2) Move the park it its east to the lot where Landmark Tower used to stand and replace it with a very cool looking building tall enough to obscure most of the ugliness from the east.

 

The north and south facades are ugly too, of course.  But they are narrow enough that the blight on the skyline is minimized.

 

3) After the new buildings are completed Burnett Plaza will become less desirable to tenants because most of the windows will now only over look the side of a very close by building.

 

4) After a few years the building will become so unprofitable that it will be shuttered.

 

5)  The owners of the two buildings built to blot it out decide to buy Burnett Plaza for very little money and pay to have the thing imploded.   They then build something cool where the building once stood.

 

With the speed at which much of Fort Worth's development goes, you do realize that:  the TRV would be complete, the Cowboys would have won a Super Bowl, and quite possibly Jesus would have returned before all of those multiple transactions would be completed on a single piece piece of downtown Fort Worth property.  (However, Rick Perry might possibly still be governor.)  :swg:



#23 Dismuke

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:15 PM

With the speed at which much of Fort Worth's development goes, you do realize that:  the TRV would be complete, the Cowboys would have won a Super Bowl, and quite possibly Jesus would have returned before all of those multiple transactions would be completed on a single piece piece of downtown Fort Worth property.  (However, Rick Perry might possibly still be governor.)  :swg:

 

 

Yes. And by then Fort Worth will have surpassed Dallas in terms of population - yet people will still be upset anytime Dallas gets something new and Fort Worth doesn't!


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#24 Dismuke

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:24 PM

There are uglier buildings for sure.

 

Indeed.  And I actually still recall the very first time I saw Burnett Plaza about a year or so before I moved to Fort Worth.   From the west my initial impression of the building was that it was mildly interesting.  But it didn't take very long for the novelty of it to become old and wear off - and, after that, it was just awkward looking and ugly.  I wouldn't characterize it as the ugliest.  But as Jeriat points out, its size and prominence makes the ugliness stand out all the more.

 

BTW - I always thought the pre-tornado appearance of The Tower was butt ugly both from the distance and especially from the street level.  I think they did a great job at transforming it into something that is much, much more attractive.


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#25 RD Milhollin

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 09:56 PM

I think that adding a lighted crown would make a significant difference in the Burnet Plaza Building; and would go on record as preferring the second option from the left on the top row of the ideas submitted at the top of this topic. It really wouldn't take much to eliminate, mask, or at least incorporate the awkward "dog house" up on the roof.

 

Another option might be a Zeppelin mast ...



#26 Brian Luenser

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:08 PM

There are uglier buildings for sure.

 

Indeed.  And I actually still recall the very first time I saw Burnett Plaza about a year or so before I moved to Fort Worth.   From the west my initial impression of the building was that it was mildly interesting.  But it didn't take very long for the novelty of it to become old and wear off - and, after that, it was just awkward looking and ugly.  I wouldn't characterize it as the ugliest.  But as Jeriat points out, its size and prominence makes the ugliness stand out all the more.

 

BTW - I always thought the pre-tornado appearance of The Tower was butt ugly both from the distance and especially from the street level.  I think they did a great job at transforming it into something that is much, much more attractive.

I agree about the Tower building.  (Bank One Building) it looked better after the tornando (with plywood windows) than before the tornado.  And I like it a lot now.  Many building like that.  Cash America is one of my favorite buildings, now.


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#27 Austin55

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 03:30 PM

Ugh the tower was horrid before it's renovation, I was to young to remember actually seeing the original base, but it is certainly better now, it is probably the single best looking highrise in FW and it's really quite nice at the street now. I just wish that cool red sculpture had stuck around.

 

And if you want Modern ugly (in downtown)-There are a few that stick out for me. The jail building at Taylor at Belknap is horrendous, AT&T is a well known eyesore, the Hilton Annex looks like the Soviets designed it, and the newer Fort Worth Club building, on top of nearly every parking garage.



#28 Jeriat

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:05 PM

Ugh the tower was horrid before it's renovation, I was to young to remember actually seeing the original base, but it is certainly better now, it is probably the single best looking highrise in FW and it's really quite nice at the street now. I just wish that cool red sculpture had stuck around.

 

And if you want Modern ugly (in downtown)-There are a few that stick out for me. The jail building at Taylor at Belknap is horrendous, AT&T is a well known eyesore, the Hilton Annex looks like the Soviets designed it, and the newer Fort Worth Club building, on top of nearly every parking garage.


I do have a soft spot for The Tower. When I was in the 2nd grade or so when it was the Bank One Building, my father took me up to where that restaurant was (I forgot the name) and we looked over the downtown. Of course, this was back in '96 when downtown was just starting to get reshaped to what it is now. But that's when I knew I wanted to be an architect when I got older. 

As for the Tim Curry Criminal Center, to be fair, it is just a jailhouse.... 


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#29 cberen1

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:31 AM

Ugh the tower was horrid before it's renovation, I was to young to remember actually seeing the original base, but it is certainly better now, it is probably the single best looking highrise in FW and it's really quite nice at the street now. I just wish that cool red sculpture had stuck around.

 

And if you want Modern ugly (in downtown)-There are a few that stick out for me. The jail building at Taylor at Belknap is horrendous, AT&T is a well known eyesore, the Hilton Annex looks like the Soviets designed it, and the newer Fort Worth Club building, on top of nearly every parking garage.


I do have a soft spot for The Tower. When I was in the 2nd grade or so when it was the Bank One Building, my father took me up to where that restaurant was (I forgot the name) and we looked over the downtown. Of course, this was back in '96 when downtown was just starting to get reshaped to what it is now. But that's when I knew I wanted to be an architect when I got older. 

As for the Tim Curry Criminal Center, to be fair, it is just a jailhouse.... 

 

The restaurant you're thinking of was the Reatta in its first downtown location (I think it would have been there in '96).  The whole cowboy theme was not nearly as in your face as it is now.  Great 360 degree views of the city from up there while you dined.  After the tornado they relocated.  Caravan was waning anyway.  It worked out well for all involved, although I wish downtown still had a really prominent music venue.



#30 Jeriat

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 04:52 PM

Just a mock up I did. I went with a "crystal" crown. 

 

46994_10200315255317460_886660435_n.jpg

 

536211_10200315254637443_1459725951_n.jp

 

28165_10200315254757446_984783675_n.jpg

 

64232_10200315254157431_2045213347_n.jpg

 

This is where all the lighting would be, of course, LED like Chesapeake. It would make BP 651' and create a triangle top skyscraper.... sort of.  

As for the tower to the northwest of it, I'll get to that a little later. 


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#31 Bonfire98A

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:21 AM

Here's what I'd do, if it were my building.  

 

50 years ago, the tallest building in town was the late CNB Building, topped by that enormous rotating digital clock which was a tremendous source of civic pride.  I remember reading on here that it was possible to read the time on it from several miles away.  See where I'm going?  Why not re-create the clock atop Burnett Plaza's elevator penthouse?  

 

It wouldn't need to be an exact replica -- for one thing, CNB isn't around anymore, and for another, there have been 50 years of technological advances that could go into a new clock (LED lights, for example).  But it could certainly be designed to look and feel like the old one did.

 

If I'd been a kid back then, I would have thought that clock was the neatest thing in the world.  As it was, I had to settle for the smaller display atop the 12-story "Big Blue" building in downtown Wichita Falls, not all of whose bulbs seemed to be in working order half the time.  Sadly, we hardly ever went to Fort Worth when I was a kid, so I never got to see it for myself.  But how cool would it be to bring back a beloved piece of Fort Worth history?

 

Just imagine this on top of Burnett Plaza....

 

cnbclockcloseup.jpg



#32 RD Milhollin

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:39 AM

There may be an ordinance restricting roof-top signs now, I'm sure someone who knows will chime in...



#33 Jeriat

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:46 PM

There may be an ordinance restricting roof-top signs now, I'm sure someone who knows will chime in...

 

Wouldn't surprise me if that were the case, seeing how there are NO roof-top signs anywhere now-a-days. 


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#34 John T Roberts

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:32 PM

RD has it right.  There is now an ordinance against rooftop signs.  However, a variance for such a sign could be requested.  I don't know if it would be approved, but you never know. 

 

I also first thought that an almost identical situation that plagued the Continental National Bank Building/Landmark Tower would apply here, but I don't think that would actually be the case.  When you add these rooftop elements after the building was designed, you have to beef up the structural system to support it.  That's one of the problems that led to the demise of the Landmark Tower; it really wasn't beefed up enough.  Burnett Plaza is different in the fact that there is already a rooftop screen to hide the buildings communications equipment.  You would probably only have to beef up the rooftop screen structure itself to support LED screens on each side.  It wouldn't rotate, but the LED's could animate any message, or color.



#35 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:56 PM

I don't like the idea of Burnett Plaza having a giant clock. The last thing that ugly tower needs is more attention.


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#36 Bonfire98A

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 11:24 PM

I don't like the idea of Burnett Plaza having a giant clock. The last thing that ugly tower needs is more attention.

 

Well, consider the building on which the original clock stood -- by itself, it didn't have much going for it aesthetically either.  The clock was what made the building unique, and so would a similar clock atop Burnett.  Besides, there's only one tallest building in town, and that's where a new clock would have to go to ensure the greatest visibility for it.



#37 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:45 PM

The old CNB tower looked a whole lot better than Burnett tower does. Burnett already has enough attention and already looks awkward enough without a large clock on it.


- Dylan


#38 Austin55

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 03:29 PM

Well, they're painting the box to match the building. 

 

CnwTqgnUAAA9RbC.jpg
 



#39 Now in Denton

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 09:11 AM

If they could add lighting that changes color for events and holidays like the Bank of America in Dallas. That would be cool. 



#40 jefffwd

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 09:59 AM

I don't see why they can't.  They swapped the lights out for LED's a few months ago. 



#41 Jeriat

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 12:23 PM

Well, they're painting the box to match the building. 

 

CnwTqgnUAAA9RbC.jpg
 

 

You already know my reaction...

 

shrug.gif


7fwPZnE.png

 

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#42 renamerusk

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 07:37 PM

What ever possess them to do anything except embarrassment?  As you can see, overlooking some excellent options laid out in post#1 by simply choosing to paint the box is a disappointment and a so-so event.






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