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New 58 story mixed-use tower planned - but where?


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#101 hannerhan

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:16 AM

Rename should start with Dallas Police and Fire when he goes out to raise the money...they're into speculative highrise projects.  :swg:

 

In all seriousness, post #97 is worth reading several times for those unfamiliar with why things do or do not get built (and more broadly with how investment capital flows).  Nice summary.



#102 renamerusk

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:18 PM

Just as importantly, I think there would be a fairly high degree of demand from a high-end hotel and also on the condo thing..... Hotel space is nonexistent out there, and I really do think there are a lot of people who live in Midland but spend a lot of time in other places (or those who now live in the other places but spend a lot of time in Midland) that would be interested in a high end condo.....So I'm surprised to say it, but it seems to me like this thing could actually work.

 

 

Rename should start with Dallas Police and Fire when he goes out to raise the money...they're into speculative highrise projects.  :swg:

 

Let me see if I actually understand what you are saying:

 

A speculative project in Midland has a better chance for success than a speculative project in Dallas (Museum Tower); is that your position?



#103 hannerhan

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:38 PM

Just as importantly, I think there would be a fairly high degree of demand from a high-end hotel and also on the condo thing..... Hotel space is nonexistent out there, and I really do think there are a lot of people who live in Midland but spend a lot of time in other places (or those who now live in the other places but spend a lot of time in Midland) that would be interested in a high end condo.....So I'm surprised to say it, but it seems to me like this thing could actually work.

 

 

Rename should start with Dallas Police and Fire when he goes out to raise the money...they're into speculative highrise projects.  :swg:

 

Let me see if I actually understand what you are saying:

 

A speculative project in Midland has a better chance for success than a speculative project in Dallas (Museum Tower); is that your position?

 

 

When the Dallas condo project pricing starts at $800 per foot, and given the current situation in Midland Texas, yes that is absolutely what I'm saying. 

 

But it doesn't really matter what I think...it matters what the market decides.  I don't know the financials on the Museum Tower deal but I think it's safe to say that so far it has been an unmitigated disaster for investors.  The final results on both projects remain to be seen.



#104 renamerusk

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:20 PM

..... given the current situation in Midland Texas....

 

What is the current situation in Midland,Texas to wit you reference?

 

And an aside; having provided the formula determining "high rise profitability", here is a graphic determining the efficiency gain from a high rise:

 

http://thesocietypag...er-kate-ascher/



#105 hannerhan

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 03:57 PM

..... given the current situation in Midland Texas....

 

What is the current situation in Midland,Texas to wit you reference?

 

An extended period of high oil prices coupled with new technology increasing the viability of nearly all old wells in the Permian as well as making new wells profitable...which is drawing billions in new infrastructure investments and all that goes along with it.  Lowest unemployment rate and highest population growth rate in the country.  Housing shortages, hotel room shortages, and Class A office space shortages on a fairly large scale.



#106 renamerusk

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 08:17 PM

There very well may be a great need for a multi purpose project in Midland for which this speculative project may be able to fulfill; and earlier for the record, I made a bitter sweet comment offering good luck wishes to Midland.

....the Midland Project may have some hurdles although it does appear that the hurdles can be overcome....Severely bitter sweet but for sure, the bar has and is being raised by places even like Midland.

 

 

An extended period of high oil prices coupled with new technology increasing the viability of nearly all old wells in the Permian as well as making new wells profitable...which is drawing billions in new infrastructure investments and all that goes along with it.  Lowest unemployment rate and highest population growth rate in the country.  Housing shortages, hotel room shortages, and Class A office space shortages on a fairly large scale.

Aside from Midland having perhaps the greatest need for such a speculative multi purpose project of any sizeable city in Texas, Dallas chances are at least equal or better that a speculative project will be doable as are the chances of Midland.   Time is the perspective.  http://www.bizjourna...n.html?page=all

 

FYI, here is a list of the largest cities in Texas, estimated 2011 population and growth rate; including Midland:  http://en.wikipedia....s_by_population

 

 

And while I think post #97 is an interesting post, it is an editorial without much of an offering of facts to support standing. The bottom line for me has always been this nagging question: Why Fort Worth seems to lack the large speculative projects that we see happening in the region?  A bad economy and or speculative projects are not profitable have both been cited; yet both reasons have been addressed by me with factual data and reports that call these remarks into question.

 

Psychologically, I get it that people are apt to confuse their personal economy with that of a regional or national economy; but no individual or household is a multi-trillion dollar economy as is our American Economy which is capable of driving the global economy. The fear of the U.S. becoming Cyprus or Greece is irrational; the U.S. economy is just so much more diverse and gigantically dense and pivotal; and if it were to come about, then what would it matter for the world would be doomed anyway. The American economy is an economy of risk and speculation which has proven that it can withstand anything even when it does go terribly wrong as it just did; the U.S. economy picked itself up again as it always has ready to usher in the next market surge; and btw which signs indicate lately to be already underway.  Watching Texas leading the next building boom while at the same time watching the self serving "leadership" of  Fort Worth being super cautious is a fact that cause me chagrin, notwithstanding the remaking of the city's core.



#107 JOCOguy

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:21 PM

http://www.youtube.c...v=H75mYDI7-lw#!



#108 Fort Worthology

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:44 PM

It's like every mistake of '60s/'70s design rolled into one - sunken plaza!  Below-grade retail *under* a giant monolithic tower!  A tower-in-the-park design!  Theoretical people hanging out under a bunch of concrete columns!



#109 beverlyb

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:36 PM

I love those glitzy what's to come proto-type vids. I moved to Lincoln Trinity because of the Lincoln Trinity Vision video.  But now I'm beginning to wonder if it's really going to happen. :smwink:

 

Maybe I should move to Midland?



#110 Austin55

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 05:58 PM

Everything above the lobby looks fantastic. Everything below it is atrocious. 



#111 Dallastar

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:23 PM

http://www.bizjourna...l-become-a.html



#112 John T Roberts

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:33 PM

I will be passing through Midland in a few weeks.  I do know where the site is located, so I may drive by there to take a look at what's happening there at that time.  Usually, on this trip, I eat there twice.  I have a couple of restaurants that I like, so I eat at one on the way out, and the other on the way back.



#113 cjyoung

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:00 PM

The building is OK. Hope they build it. Maybe it will motivate our industriy captains to build something other than the boxy buildings we have over 30 stories.

#114 johnfwd

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:34 AM

Here's an updated article, July 11, 2013, on the planned 58-story building re-copied from the Houston Chronicle.  Amusing to me is that the highest towers in downtown Midland are 25 stories, so this new energy center will certainly tower over them (and I would just bet some sarcastic New York tourist will say it "sticks out like a sore thumb").

 

http://enr.construct...ry_id=187657673



#115 Austin55

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:58 AM

Sticks out like a sore thumb in the skyline and on the street. Really hope Midland gets something better.



#116 Doohickie

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:06 PM

 

So why is this such a devestating blow to Fort Worth?  If it even happens?  I have a hard time seeing how the economics of this work out in positive territory.

 

Just feels like yet another reminder that this city is behind or too slow for its size, as if the rest of the world is passing us up. 

Just like our whole issue with rail.... or just public transportation in general, for that matter. 

 

 

 

I'd rather have slow growth than boom (and subsequent bust).  Sustained and sustainable growth is key.


My blog: Doohickie

#117 johnfwd

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:14 AM

I'm still puzzled as to the why of a skyscraper of this magnitude for an energy center in the low profile downtown of Midland, but not one of similar size in downtown FW by one of our local energy companies (XTO?).  Yes, Chesapeake has the former 20-story PIer1 Imports building.  It can't be that the Midland Class A office market demands a 58-story building?  Has to be hubris and, of course, money.  Developers in Fort Worth surely have the money.  But where is the hubris these days in Fort Worth?



#118 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:58 PM

It can be done here, its just that nobody with money wants to do build one here. They would rather build in Midland or Oklahoma City for whatever reason.

 

As for how Midland can support a 58 story tower, its going to be mixed-use, not just offices. There are going to be hotel rooms and condos as well.


- Dylan


#119 JOCOguy

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:36 AM

http://www.mrt.com/t...1a4bcf887a.html



#120 johnfwd

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:21 AM

The article states that the 53-story building was scotched because critics said it would be "too tall" for Midland's DT.  I suspect the developer's decision was more than a reaction to "too tall."  Other factors, including market demand, availability of undeveloped land downtown, square footage costs, may have influenced their decision to build two smaller-scale buildings.



#121 Austin55

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 02:40 PM

It looks way more interesting at street level and above. Go Midland.

#122 RD Milhollin

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:38 PM

Here is a link to the courthouse building that will be torn down to build the 54, er, make that 22 story tower:

 

http://www.texasesca...idlandTexas.htm



#123 John T Roberts

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:35 AM

I have been going through Midland every summer for the past four years and I have done some exploring.  Before I found out that the old Courthouse was going to be demolished for this project, I thought it was an ugly 1960's or 70's building that replaced an older structure.  I was surprised to find out that it was a horrible remodel of the 1930 Courthouse.



#124 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 05:32 PM

When I first heard of the two tower proposal, I was thinking two 30 story towers since the original plan was a 59 story tower. Sucks for Midland.


- Dylan


#125 Austin55

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:31 PM

At this point they'd be lucky to get anything. 

 

http://cbs7.com/mult...17a43b2370.html



#126 renamerusk

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:41 PM

At this point they'd be lucky to get anything.  (Energy Towers)

 

 

Send recruits from Fort Worth to Midland; and build the towers here. :swg:



#127 FWFD1247

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 08:14 PM

^^^I second that^^^
I mean who wants to live in Midland over Fort Worth?!?!

16atmjd.jpg


#128 RD Milhollin

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 08:27 PM

Might want to ask that question in Midland as well if you are looking for a balanced answer to the question ...



#129 FWFD1247

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 10:12 PM

True to each there own...

16atmjd.jpg


#130 JBB

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 10:16 PM

So to you guys that thought this tower was a devastating blow to FW, does this mean we're not going to fall off into the ocean?

#131 RD Milhollin

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 10:40 PM

No, we are not going to fall off into the ocean anytime soon. We still might fall off into the desert though...



#132 renamerusk

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 06:46 AM

So to you guys that thought this tower was a devastating blow to FW, does this mean we're not going to fall off into the ocean?

 

Well, I was one who thought this 'cause I took it as bumping Fort Worth farther down a notch on the Texas skyline totem-pole.

Yeah, I do think that the "Island of Fort Worth" stands perilously close to being swallowed up by the "seas" who are its ambitious siblings. :ninja:

 

Fort Worth over everybody.
 



#133 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 09:57 PM

The entire project has been cancelled.

 

http://www.mrt.com/t...a.html?mode=jqm


- Dylan


#134 Austin55

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 10:16 PM

That should come as a surprise to no one. 

 

I do hope it gets something out of this gas boom it's got going down there. There's a loooot of money being made there. 



#135 RD Milhollin

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 10:28 AM

The legacy of the petrochemical boom (and bust cycle) is going to be ghost towns out west, just like the gold and silver extraction booms that came before. Oil and gas extraction result in a tremendous amount of damage to the environment, and wastes other more critical resources in the process, such as ground and surface water. This wasting is helped along by climate change, by most estimates a product of the over use of products from the same industry. Every time the economy turns over from the artificial boom bubbles brought on by greed and exploitation the West Texas cities and towns suffer, and everyone who can leaves for somewhere else. I estimate that there will be one bust too many, possibly from depletion of the resource or groundwater, and the area will empty out from being inhabitable or just unemployable. This could be postponed if someone could figure out how to convert oil to water, or if massive sheets of solar photovoltaic panels could be manufactured cheaply.

 

Why would investors build anything other than temporary structures in such an environment? 



#136 johnfwd

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 05:43 AM

Much said, undoubtedly true, about the cyclical phenomenon of the economy of energy production; however, I suspect the canceling of the Midland project had more to do with real estate market-related issues than those having to do with oil and gas extraction.



#137 Austin55

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 08:19 PM

The people behind the Magnolia Ave hotel are the folks behind a new development on this bit of land in downtown Midland. 

 

 

Thanks to  Renamerusk for linking this.






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