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"Fort Worth": Going, going...gone?


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#101 Doohickie

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 10:05 PM

Yesterday, a local news affiliate here in Houston reported on the unfortunate Fort Worth police incident.

 

There was a short, pre-recorded interview clip with the victims in front of a Dallas skyline backdrop.

 

Nice.

 

I've actually ridden by that spot dozens, if not hundreds, of times on my bicycle.  My impression is that it's a sleepy little suburban area.  Nice homes, generally kept up, typically very quiet.


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#102 Now in Denton

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 08:17 AM

Yesterday, a local news affiliate here in Houston reported on the unfortunate Fort Worth police incident.

 

There was a short, pre-recorded interview clip with the victims in front of a Dallas skyline backdrop.

 

Oh boy this national story as expected had "Dallas" all over it. I'm talking about people from all over facebook

kept calling it that police officer from the "Dallas PD" I always hold off until I hear the WHOLE  story before passing judgement.

But I just could help myself I got so ticked off on how a parents reports her child being choked and SHE goes to jail ? And

I could not help myself setting people straight  and telling people Fort Worth is the 16th 17th largest city in America. And a bigger

city than many city NFL teams !  



#103 johnfwd

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 08:28 AM

Crime news is not how Fort Worth should be viewed nationally.  But, in this particular case, I think people across the country still remember the Dallas sniper incident.  Maybe that's why some think the Dallas PD is involved in the Fort Worth incident.



#104 renamerusk

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 10:18 PM

 

..... Sure it's an interesting rivalry within the region, but it's not worth getting into a snit because the rest of the world isn't quite sure where Ft Worth is.

 

This mindset is part of the reason why people incorrectly think of Fort Worth as a satellite or a suburb.

 

 

 

Yesterday, a local news affiliate here in Houston reported on the unfortunate Fort Worth police incident...There was a short, pre-recorded interview clip with the victims in front of a Dallas skyline backdrop.

 

 Its not an interesting rivalry.  It is a shame that supposedly intelligent people do not know that Fort Worth is not Dallas; that Fort Worth has a downtown, a police department; etc. Sadly what it does not have is an "airport" to set it apart from any other city.

 

The shame is even more profound by other Texas cities that routinely morph Fort Worth into Greater Dallas.  Try, if you can stomach it, listening to the Texas Tribune Standard Media reports from the major Texas metro areas- Austin, San Antonio, Houston and Dallas.  Datelines for news of Fort Worth are routinely given as "Dallas".

 

And there are those who will continue to maintain that Fort Worth is already on the "map". :o

 

PAS - "I share your ainst and agree with your frustration."



#105 Doohickie

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 10:52 PM

If you don't think Fort Worth isn't part of greater Dallas, you're clueless.  It's called the DFW Metroplex, and yes, it's one continuous, greater urban area.  Sorry to burst your bubble.


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#106 johnfwd

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 07:42 AM

Alas, when I created this particular thread I wasn't intending to declare the extinction of the city itself...was just making a point that people were prone to avoid saying "Fort Worth" in preference for "Tarrant" or "DFW," or "Texas".  I note here, for example, that we could have named the speedway, the "Fort Worth Motor Speedway" (like the  "Atlanta" Motor Speedway).  Instead it became Texas Motor Speedway.  The North Tarrant Parkway should have been the North Fort Worth Parkway, in view of the fact that it originates in Fort Worth.  Similarly, the Dallas North Tollway originates in their city but goes beyond city limits.  Other examples abound.  Our problem is that, long ago, we decided to call our county "Tarrant" instead of "Fort Worth."  Nothing knew here, there's "Travis" for Austin, "Harris" for Houston.  But for Dallasites it makes it easy for them to call things outside their city limits by the name Dallas, since it also names their county. Much of this says less about Fort Worth than about how much Dallasites are enamored with their city namesake.  They prefer most all their sports franchises to be named after the city. So when Dallas far surpassed Fort Worth in population and commercial development back when, the idea of a Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex came into vogue and, soon, people were calling it the DFW Metroplex or, simply, the Dallas Metroplex.



#107 renamerusk

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 07:42 AM

If you don't think Fort Worth isn't part of greater Dallas, you're clueless.  It's called the DFW Metroplex, and yes, it's one continuous, greater urban area.  Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

I am not clueless. It does not further the argument to characterize the debate in that tone.  I am from Fort Worth, I'm a native. 

 

As a native, I have witnessed the erosion of Fort Worth's identity in the name of a greater regional identity.   Asking to be granted some respect from people or institutions that are indeed clueless about my hometown is not anything for me to be sorry for, apologetic about or for me continuing to emphasize that there is a difference between two of the major cities within the metro area.

 

As for following your logic, is Dallas, therefore, a part of a greater Fort Worth since the greater urban area is called DFW Metroplex?  Yes, Dallas is big and it is bigger when it is inflated by taking Fort Worth into its realm, like and when a smaller bubble is absorbed by a larger bubble.  

 

In this ever increasingly migratory society that we live in, it is easy to discard ones roots.  Not me. And it is okay for someone whose hometown is,  for instance Buffalo, NY to tout from time to time their hometown when everybody knows who is beyond Upstate that  there is only "one" city in the State of New York.



#108 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 12:56 PM

If you don't think Fort Worth isn't part of greater Dallas, you're clueless.  It's called the DFW Metroplex, and yes, it's one continuous, greater urban area.  Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

The way I see it, Fort Worth co-anchors the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex ... or "greater Dallas-Fort Worth," if you prefer.


- Dylan


#109 Doohickie

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 08:18 PM

Anyone who lives here sees it that way.  The rest of the world is vaguely aware that Dallas is somewhere in North Texas, and that based on DFW Airport, Fort Worth is probably close to it.


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#110 Not Sure

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 08:25 PM

Dallas and Fort Worth are linked to each other to the rest of the world like Minneapolis and St. Paul or closer to home Midland and Odessa. Outside of each respective area, it's rare one is thought of or mentioned without the other.

#111 johnfwd

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 03:53 PM

I would agree with the analogies of Minneapolis-Saint Paul, Midland-Odessa, and also San Francisco-Oakland, as they apply to Fort Worth-Dallas, but there's a big difference a lot of people don't realize.  Dallas is separated geographically from Fort Worth by 30 miles and in between there's Arlington and Grand Prairie.  The geographic distance between the other twin cities mentioned here is far less than that of D-FW (e.g., Oakland and San Francisco are only 15 miles apart).  And there are no other municipalities between the others.  I see Dallas and Fort Worth as two major metropolitan areas that just happened to be located 30 miles from each other and a lot of satellite communities grew up around each of them. 



#112 renamerusk

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 05:44 PM

.... I am from Fort Worth, I'm a native......As a native, I have witnessed the erosion of Fort Worth's identity in the name of a greater regional identity.

 

I went too far expressing my hometown boosterism. 

 

I don't dislike Dallas; there is a whole lot of things to like about it.  Besides, it is pointless and irrelevant to hold such an attitude.  

 

I simply wish that Fort Worth could receive the well deserved recognition that it is entitled.  Fort Worth is a place; and it has a face; and it should not be that it is a "tree lost among the forest".

 

My hometown is a place that I admire endlessly.  I think you will all agree, warts and all,  that  Fort Worth is a wonderful place to call home.



#113 John T Roberts

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 07:25 PM

I'm also a Fort Worth native.  I admire and love Fort Worth, as well.  I also like Dallas, and there are a lot of things to like about the city.  I enjoy going over there from time to time to do something a little different.  I also agree that Fort Worth deserves the recognition that it is entitled.  Joel Burns had it right when he has tried to correct people from calling it "Dallas".  We are two separate cities with different identities. 

 

Here is one thing that bugs me, locally.  On the local news channels, they refer to Fort Worth as "Tarrant County", like they call the surrounding counties, yet they don't usually say "Dallas County", they just call it Dallas.



#114 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 11:40 PM

Anyone who lives here sees it that way.  The rest of the world is vaguely aware that Dallas is somewhere in North Texas, and that based on DFW Airport, Fort Worth is probably close to it.

 

We would like to get outsiders to recognize Fort Worth as a metro anchor (sure, a metro anchor that's near Dallas) as opposed to viewing Fort Worth as an extension of Dallas (which it's not).

 

For those unaware, I'm a Dallas native.  :blink: For whatever reason, I'm much more attached to Fort Worth than Dallas.


- Dylan


#115 Now in Denton

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 01:32 PM

If you don't think Fort Worth isn't part of greater Dallas, you're clueless.  It's called the DFW Metroplex, and yes, it's one continuous, greater urban area.  Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

Well born in Harris hospital I don't see Fort Worth as a part of "greater Dallas" Sorry to burst your bubble. And I am NOT clueless. Who made the rules anyway ? And who says rules laws whatever you want to call it is always right ? Greater Dallas, Dallas MSA, I even heard Dallas Metroplex a few time. I don't care what some bureaucrat who thinks it is best just to drop Fort Worth and say Dallas. IF Fort Worth was still 35 and Dallas was still 7th in city size. Then yea I think Fort Worth should take a back seat. But that gap is long gone and still closing in.  



#116 Doohickie

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 01:03 AM

Well born in Harris hospital I don't see Fort Worth as a part of "greater Dallas" Sorry to burst your bubble. And I am NOT clueless. Who made the rules anyway ? And who says rules laws whatever you want to call it is always right ? Greater Dallas, Dallas MSA, I even heard Dallas Metroplex a few time. I don't care what some bureaucrat who thinks it is best just to drop Fort Worth and say Dallas. IF Fort Worth was still 35 and Dallas was still 7th in city size. Then yea I think Fort Worth should take a back seat. But that gap is long gone and still closing in.

That's precisely my point:  People who are *from* this area naturally see it as its component parts.  But people from outside the area... not so much.  The fact that you were born here makes you blind to the way the rest of the country views this area.


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#117 johnfwd

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 06:59 AM

 

Well born in Harris hospital I don't see Fort Worth as a part of "greater Dallas" Sorry to burst your bubble. And I am NOT clueless. Who made the rules anyway ? And who says rules laws whatever you want to call it is always right ? Greater Dallas, Dallas MSA, I even heard Dallas Metroplex a few time. I don't care what some bureaucrat who thinks it is best just to drop Fort Worth and say Dallas. IF Fort Worth was still 35 and Dallas was still 7th in city size. Then yea I think Fort Worth should take a back seat. But that gap is long gone and still closing in.

That's precisely my point:  People who are *from* this area naturally see it as its component parts.  But people from outside the area... not so much.  The fact that you were born here makes you blind to the way the rest of the country views this area.

 

Yep, it's perception begging reality.  If Fort Worthians feel frustrated, we haven't an argument to make to Brooklynites.  Poor Brooklyn, which has twice the population of Dallas, is forever one of New York's "boroughs" and is located about 20 miles from the center of the megalopolis.  But Brooklyn had what we've never had...a major sports franchise.  The Brooklyn Dodgers.



#118 eastfwther

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 07:28 AM


 

That's precisely my point:  People who are *from* this area naturally see it as its component parts.  But people from outside the area... not so much.  The fact that you were born here makes you blind to the way the rest of the country views this area.

 

I totally agree.  I guess you can put some blame on local media whenever they refer to areas of FW as Dallas, but I don't think you can put much fault on national media.  When national media are doing sports, crime or most any other story for that matter, they have to consider their audience..which is national and sometimes international.  The story they are doing is not intended to educate the audience about the boundaries of FW and Dallas.  They're most likely going to use the Dallas moniker because that simply is what most of the country and world is more familiar with. And let's face it, if I live in New York or London, unless I'm going to physically attend the Armed Forces Bowl, I probably care very little about where it's being played when I'm just watching it on tv. These journalists only have so many minutes or so many words to tell a story, they can't be expected to waste time explaining the geographical boundaries of the DFW metroplex and it's a little silly to expect them to.  Especially when most of the audience could care less. 



#119 Doohickie

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 08:51 AM

But Brooklyn had what we've never had...a major sports franchise.  The Brooklyn Dodgers.


...and although they don't carry the Brooklyn moniker, the NY Nets and NY Islanders both play in Brooklyn.


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#120 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 07:02 PM

 


 

That's precisely my point:  People who are *from* this area naturally see it as its component parts.  But people from outside the area... not so much.  The fact that you were born here makes you blind to the way the rest of the country views this area.

 

I totally agree.  I guess you can put some blame on local media whenever they refer to areas of FW as Dallas, but I don't think you can put much fault on national media.  When national media are doing sports, crime or most any other story for that matter, they have to consider their audience..which is national and sometimes international.  The story they are doing is not intended to educate the audience about the boundaries of FW and Dallas.  They're most likely going to use the Dallas moniker because that simply is what most of the country and world is more familiar with. And let's face it, if I live in New York or London, unless I'm going to physically attend the Armed Forces Bowl, I probably care very little about where it's being played when I'm just watching it on tv. These journalists only have so many minutes or so many words to tell a story, they can't be expected to waste time explaining the geographical boundaries of the DFW metroplex and it's a little silly to expect them to.  Especially when most of the audience could care less. 

 

 

If national media outlets would start using the term "Fort Worth" more often, and would show off the Fort Worth skyline when it's more appropriate than showing off the Dallas skyline, more people would be familiar with Fort Worth.

 

It's not difficult to say the words "Fort Worth." It's two syllables.


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#121 Doohickie

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 08:00 PM

But they won't.  Why should they?


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#122 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 09:42 PM

"Why should they?" Because the media is geographically WRONG whenever they refer to Fort Worth as Dallas or treat it as an extention of Dallas.

 

As you should know, Fort Worth is a metro anchor that grew on its own and developed a large urban core many years before Fort Worth and Dallas suburbs began to blur together.

 

Incorrectly treating Fort Worth as an extension of Dallas hurts the urban growth of Fort Worth.


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#123 JBB

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 10:32 PM

A half century of ignoring the central core and subsidizing sprawl hurts the urban growth of Fort Worth. Exxon Mobil and American Airlines won't suddenly decide to build 80 story headquarters buildings downtown because an anchor in Des Moines remembers to attribute the latest amateur video of an overzealous cop to the right city or because a United pilot greets his flight from Newark with "welcome to Fort Worth". Is it lazy to mix up Fort Worth with Dallas? Yes. But it it doesn't have thing one to do with the city's development.

#124 Now in Denton

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 12:02 PM

"Why should they?" Because the media is geographically WRONG whenever they refer to Fort Worth as Dallas or treat it as an extention of Dallas.

 

As you should know, Fort Worth is a metro anchor that grew on its own and developed a large urban core many years before Fort Worth and Dallas suburbs began to blur together.

 

Incorrectly treating Fort Worth as an extension of Dallas hurts the urban growth of Fort Worth.

 

Agreed. Bottom line the national media has a bad lazy habit.  If and when something happens in Fort Worth that is a national event story. Just say Fort Worth. No need for the media to spend anytime to explain the history of Fort Worth and Dallas. If someone don't knows where Fort Worth is they can look it  up. Most will not bother. Either way no one will die. Sad day if the media cannot give a simple accurate geographic location ? Sidenote I was watching this new show "BEYOND" last night. Don't know if I like it or not. Anyway.  One line in the show "From Fort Reed to Fort Worth" She did not go into detail about Fort Worth history and it being near Dallas lol. In other words producers of the show believe most people know where Fort Worth is. Small victory but is it a start. Oh and Texas Flip and Move on HGTV very Fort Worth on that show also. Maybe Fort Worth is turning a corner on national exposure ? National Media needs to get with it !                           



#125 renamerusk

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 03:10 PM

 

....But people from outside the area... not so much.  The fact that you were born here makes you blind to the way the rest of the country views this area....

 

.....I guess you can put some blame on local media whenever they refer to areas of FW as Dallas, but I don't think you can put much fault on national media.  When national media are doing sports, crime or most any other story for that matter, they have to consider their audience..which is national and sometimes international.  The story they are doing is not intended to educate the audience about the boundaries of FW and Dallas.  They're most likely going to use the Dallas moniker because that simply is what most of the country and world is more familiar with....

 

"Boundaries?"  How is that relevant.

 

In other words, geography is way too complicated for people so it is simpler to give in to perpetuating a "dumb down" audience then to be as accurate as the journalism profession should aspire to be.  What ever happened to the journalistic creeds: who..what..when..where? 

 

It seems that the New York Times is consistent when citing datelines for "Fort Worth" when the story is about and occurs in Fort Worth.  Apparently NYT does not seem to share the approach that its readers are ignorant as do some.

 

Beyond saying that the world and the country is more familiar with, what excuse other than laziness is there to blur facts?  It makes me wonder, how do outsiders ever find a place called Fort Worth?



#126 Doohickie

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 04:10 PM

Incorrectly treating Fort Worth as an extension of Dallas hurts the urban growth of Fort Worth.

 

Can you cite anything at all to back up this assertion?  (Fort Worth is growing fine, thanks.)


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#127 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 04:11 PM

A half century of ignoring the central core and subsidizing sprawl hurts the urban growth of Fort Worth. Exxon Mobil and American Airlines won't suddenly decide to build 80 story headquarters buildings downtown because an anchor in Des Moines remembers to attribute the latest amateur video of an overzealous cop to the right city or because a United pilot greets his flight from Newark with "welcome to Fort Worth". Is it lazy to mix up Fort Worth with Dallas? Yes. But it it doesn't have thing one to do with the city's development.

 

Really? You don't think that name recognition or the perception of a city has any influence on where companies or developers choose to build offices, condos, apartments, retail, etc.? We'll have to agree to disagree, I guess.


- Dylan


#128 Doohickie

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 04:14 PM

One line in the show "From Fort Reed to Fort Worth" She did not go into detail about Fort Worth history and it being near Dallas lol. In other words producers of the show believe most people know where Fort Worth is. Small victory but is it a start. Oh and Texas Flip and Move on HGTV very Fort Worth on that show also. Maybe Fort Worth is turning a corner on national exposure ? National Media needs to get with it !

 

Do you know where Fort Reed is?  I don't.  Point being, the person who wrote that line was just looking for two "Forts" to use in a sentence.  If you want to feel good about the "national exposure" Fort Worth just got, great.  Meanwhile maybe you should look up Fort Reed as well.


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#129 renamerusk

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 04:56 PM

 

One line in the show "From Fort Reed to Fort Worth" She did not go into detail about Fort Worth history and it being near Dallas lol. In other words producers of the show believe most people know where Fort Worth is. Small victory but is it a start. Oh and Texas Flip and Move on HGTV very Fort Worth on that show also. Maybe Fort Worth is turning a corner on national exposure ? National Media needs to get with it !

 

Do you know where Fort Reed is?  I don't.  Point being, the person who wrote that line was just looking for two "Forts" to use in a sentence.  If you want to feel good about the "national exposure" Fort Worth just got, great.  Meanwhile maybe you should look up Fort Reed as well.

 

 

 Is Fort Reed a city of 700,00 inhabitants; is it a city of even 7,000 inhabitants?  Does Fort Reed have an "international airport?".

 

You would think that DFW written on your airline ticket, displayed in every airport arrival and departure monitor would turn on a light of some sort within a person with a modicum of curiosity that two places are being served at once.  As for "point being", the person writing that particular line obviously knows a bit about geography, otherwise the line might have read "from Fort Reed to Fort Dallas" so as to not go over the heads of many who are unfamiliar.

 

There are all kinds of ways to feel good about national exposure; one for me is the simple, courteous action of being recognized as a distinctive place; not better or worse; just separately apart.



#130 Now in Denton

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 07:22 PM

 

One line in the show "From Fort Reed to Fort Worth" She did not go into detail about Fort Worth history and it being near Dallas lol. In other words producers of the show believe most people know where Fort Worth is. Small victory but is it a start. Oh and Texas Flip and Move on HGTV very Fort Worth on that show also. Maybe Fort Worth is turning a corner on national exposure ? National Media needs to get with it !

 

Do you know where Fort Reed is?  I don't.  Point being, the person who wrote that line was just looking for two "Forts" to use in a sentence.  If you want to feel good about the "national exposure" Fort Worth just got, great.  Meanwhile maybe you should look up Fort Reed as well.

 

 

Wow you really are grasping today. It is a SCI-FI show lol. "the person who wrote that line" As you say. Felt confident using Fort Worth as a reference point. That's all !  Calm down relax. Take a deep breath. Look If some national event story happened in Fort Worth.  Just say Fort Worth. No more no less. If you "feel good" with Fort Worth being in the shadows. And a simple line about Fort Worth on a show that may not last upsets you. Well that is on you. Not just me. But former Council member Joel Burns. Former Council member Jim Lane for example always stick up for Fort Worth in the national media especially if Dallas gets credit for it. You should look up when Fort Worth held a event in Times Square a few years ago for "national exposure" But then again maybe not if Fort Worth national exposure upsets you.  



#131 Doohickie

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 08:30 PM

You're the one that sounds desperate, but whatever.  The whole discussion is beyond absurd.


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#132 Not Sure

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 08:33 PM

The whole discussion is beyond absurd.


I'll drink to that.

#133 JBB

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 09:06 PM

 

A half century of ignoring the central core and subsidizing sprawl hurts the urban growth of Fort Worth. Exxon Mobil and American Airlines won't suddenly decide to build 80 story headquarters buildings downtown because an anchor in Des Moines remembers to attribute the latest amateur video of an overzealous cop to the right city or because a United pilot greets his flight from Newark with "welcome to Fort Worth". Is it lazy to mix up Fort Worth with Dallas? Yes. But it it doesn't have thing one to do with the city's development.

 

Really? You don't think that name recognition or the perception of a city has any influence on where companies or developers choose to build offices, condos, apartments, retail, etc.? We'll have to agree to disagree, I guess.

 

 

Companies that have any hope for success make decisions based on economic and financial factors, not touchy-feely intangibles like name recognition or perception.  Someone could make a claim that they do, but if you dig deep enough, you'll find that it all ultimately leads back to the money.  



#134 renamerusk

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 02:41 PM

 

 

...Is it lazy to mix up Fort Worth with Dallas? Yes. But it it doesn't have thing one to do with the city's development.

 

Really? You don't think that name recognition or the perception of a city has any influence on where companies or developers choose to build offices, condos, apartments, retail, etc.? We'll have to agree to disagree, I guess.

 

Companies that have any hope for success make decisions based on economic and financial factors, not touchy-feely intangibles like name recognition or perception.  Someone could make a claim that they do, but if you dig deep enough, you'll find that it all ultimately leads back to the money. 

 

JBB, you speak as though, the two cities do not share the same region within the same state. The non touchy-feely intangibles, include but not solely,  recognition and perception.  If one of the two cities is perceived as subordinate to the other, then the snowballing effect of momentum in the direction of one of the cities over the other will be the outcome.

 

Other then scale, would you agree that both cities offer or could offer the same economic and financial factors (transportation, housing, medical infrastructure,  etc.). Perhaps money is a factor, but I don't sense that Fort Worth lacks money, but instead lacks a strategy to really compete for high paying jobs. I believe that there is ample money to go around throughout the region, but there seems to be influence to maintain development at a pace that does not rock the status quo.

 

Clearly, Dallas has a speedier process of getting projects up and running than does Fort Worth, a concern that many developers have expressed when dealing in the city.  How quickly, Dallas pounced upon money to expand public transit (streetcar) when the city would not.  Add too that national statistics have largely played a role in conglomerating the region into one large selling and marketing entity; shortening the region to be known as "Dallas". for brevity.  Omission, rather than inclusion, has become the national norm.

 

I don't know about you, but whenever you are not apart of the conversation, whether it is for a job promotion or whatever, you will likely be overlooked unless you promote your talents by distributing your resume often and unabashedly.  Being a team player is good, but standing out is more likely to get you the results that you seek. Truly, that is how one climbs upwardly; and that is how a city climbs also.

 

As for this discussion being absurd, its is as absurd as it is for someone to stand by quietly as promotions are being handed out when you have very similar qualifications. You cannot win it, if you are not in it in a partisan way. Of course, no one can or should take away what Dallas has accomplished for itself; but one should boost the city in every way and manner by rabidly promoting it as a economic entity ready to stand on its own and not just another cog within Greater Dallas.



#135 eastfwther

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 11:03 AM

 

 

....But people from outside the area... not so much.  The fact that you were born here makes you blind to the way the rest of the country views this area....

 

.....I guess you can put some blame on local media whenever they refer to areas of FW as Dallas, but I don't think you can put much fault on national media.  When national media are doing sports, crime or most any other story for that matter, they have to consider their audience..which is national and sometimes international.  The story they are doing is not intended to educate the audience about the boundaries of FW and Dallas.  They're most likely going to use the Dallas moniker because that simply is what most of the country and world is more familiar with....

 

"Boundaries?"  How is that relevant.

 

In other words, geography is way too complicated for people so it is simpler to give in to perpetuating a "dumb down" audience then to be as accurate as the journalism profession should aspire to be.  What ever happened to the journalistic creeds: who..what..when..where? 

 

It seems that the New York Times is consistent when citing datelines for "Fort Worth" when the story is about and occurs in Fort Worth.  Apparently NYT does not seem to share the approach that its readers are ignorant as do some.

 

Beyond saying that the world and the country is more familiar with, what excuse other than laziness is there to blur facts?  It makes me wonder, how do outsiders ever find a place called Fort Worth?

 

Hate to break it to you, but in my many years of travelling around this country, most people I've met not that familiar with this state, know two things about Fort Worth.  1. It's in Texas and 2. It's somewhere near Dallas.  And most are not interested in knowing much more than that. And they have no real reason to be concerned with it.  The media also knows this (and are not that concerned as well)  so "Dallas" becomes the catch all.  Some sensitive people in Fort Worth are not going to change that especially since the majority of viewers and listeners are unconcerned about Fort Worth's location.   Perhaps if Fort Worth had transformed into a "cool"  immensely popular city like Austin things would be different. But it didn't and they're not. 



#136 youngalum

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 03:22 PM

It is simple

 

If you were lucky to be born in Texas or Fort Worth, the conversation makes sense on "why" folks from this area make noises about location identity.

 

if you are unlucky to be born outside Texas or heavens forbid buffalo new york, one tends to think this issue is no big deal.

 

That is the dividing line and the moniker of "get a rope" for these outsiders.



#137 renamerusk

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:12 PM

Hate to break it to you, but in my many years of travelling around this country, most people I've met not that familiar with this state, know two things about Fort Worth.  1. It's in Texas and 2. It's somewhere near Dallas.  And most are not interested in knowing much more than that. And they have no real reason to be concerned with it.....

 

 (1) That says more about the circle of your acquaintances; and (2) more about their lack of interest and possible missed opportunities.

 

Of course you don’t really hate breaking your so called  “unscientific” hearsay of what “most” people know about Fort Worth; its seems evident to me that minimizing Fort Worth  whenever and however often you can is sporting for you. 

Here is what I have noticed about many people. In general,  people have a very poor understanding about geography; and that includes a lot of places, just not Fort Worth.  Point in case, I had the occasion to ask a medical tech who lived in Duncanville TX and working in Dallas, TX  which county did she reside in? She didn’t know that Duncanville is in Dallas County or that the county seat for Duncanville is Dallas.  So, I would agree with you that most people are not interested in knowing much more than that nor of anything geographically, politically or economically.  People are  about thing socially.(media)

On November 21, 1963, Dallas was pretty much small potatoes stuck somewhere out in the middle of the country; then November 22, 1963 happened and Dallas was suddenly on the map nationally and globally.  It has taken 50 plus years for Dallas to polish its image and give it credit for doing so; it certainly needed to do something; and being unabashed about soaking up as much positive self serving press along with its perpetual quest for a global identity is “catnip” to it.  Remember the ” Arlington Olympics?”

You speak as though you are an authority on the subject of what a majority of viewers and listeners concern themselves with regards to Fort Worth and presumably, you can prove that you are. I would note that many travelers and tourists from across the country, Europe and Asia comment about the authenticity of Fort Worth’s cultural and western style and say it is what they came to Texas to experience. You should linger among them the next time that you are in the Stockyards.   I believe the top tourist attraction in Dallas to this day still remains the 6th Floor Texas Book Depository Building and the green grass knoll; there is even a tall green building next to it - but that is a painful digression.  As to Austin , it has become an alien place to many of its long time residents - I know; I once attended school there.  You don’t have to wait long for people from Austin to routinely voice regret about some of the transformation that has taken place there.  I will also suggest, as I have in other blogs, that Austin has some built in advantages that Fort Worth does not: State & Federal concentration and a 50K university both which make Austin practically recession proof and constantly changing.  And given, all of this, Fort Worth is as good a place to live as is Austin. You must think so too, choosing to live in Fort Worth rather than in Dallas or Irving.

As for the future of Fort Worth, you cannot say for sure that the city will not transformed into a “cool” immensely popular city.  You just don’t have the cards or the time to know one way or the other if it will not; unless you can predict the future.  I believe the city is changing right before our eyes and deserves to be recognized.   We have the better BBQ, Home Brew, TexMex and museums. The last thing that Fort Worth needs is to be lost in a catch all identity trap.

Calling me sensitive about the city that is my hometown is a compliment, not a dig.  Fort Worth, I hope is defined by being what it is; and not by who its neighbor is.  The French have a saying - “Long live the difference”; it a good way of thinking of oneself apart from a being consumed by a larger entity.  I’m not going to change minds of people who for all that I know may have zero self identity or who can drop theirs  when it is convenient.  However, I will be precise and I will say Fort Worth, when it is Fort Worth in spite of  “catch all” marketing gimmick to inflate numbers.
 



#138 renamerusk

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:14 PM

It is simple.....If you were lucky to be born in Texas or Fort Worth, the conversation makes sense on "why" folks from this area make noises about location identity.

 

 "Touche"



#139 Doohickie

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:10 AM

(1) That says more about the circle of your acquaintances; and (2) more about their lack of interest and possible missed opportunities.


No, that's pretty much the prevailing view.
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#140 renamerusk

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:42 AM

 

(1) That says more about the circle of your acquaintances; and (2) more about their lack of interest and possible missed opportunities.


No, that's pretty much the prevailing view.

 

 So, is that prevailing view held about other cities or just specifically Fort Worth?  I suggest that if you are not interested in professional sports, you probably do not know much about a majority of cities of sizes similar to Fort Worth.  Many of opportunities have been missed simply because of a limiting ones scope.



#141 Doohickie

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 11:24 AM

Not specifically Fort Worth. 

 

I mean, unless you've actually been to the Detroit Metro area, you probably have no idea that it consists of 3 counties with strong tensions between Wayne Country (where Detroit is) and Oakland/Macomb Counties (where the money is).  That Pontiac is an urban center unto itself but also a suburb of Detroit.

 

There are various cities around Seattle, and having never been there myself, I have no idea what the relationship is between Seattle and Redmond, Bellevue and Everett.  I'm sure people who live there, or have traveled there, are better educated, but am I suffering from a "lack of interest and possible missed opportunities" because of this?  Do outside people need to know any of that?

 

Which brings us back to DFW.  People in Seattle or Detroit or Los Angeles or New York won't know the geography of DFW.  They will recognize Dallas as the largest city the area, Ft Worth if they happen to think about the initials in the name of the local airport, Arlington because of the Ballpark and Jerry World and maybe they've heard of another local city such as Mequite, Plano, Irving or maybe even the home of Kelly Clarkson, Burleson.

 

That's as much as one might expect an outsider to know about DFW.  If they know no more than that, are they ignorant to a fault?  No.  Such knowledge is of little use to someone in Detroit or Irvine unless they actually plan to come to this area.  For them, it's all Dallas, more or less, and that's good enough for them.


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#142 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 12:33 AM

 

Incorrectly treating Fort Worth as an extension of Dallas hurts the urban growth of Fort Worth.

 

Can you cite anything at all to back up this assertion?  (Fort Worth is growing fine, thanks.)

 

 

There's no specific proof regarding Fort Worth that I could find, but you and JBB don't have any proof that my assertion is wrong.

 

There is a paper I found that discusses the importance of how people view cities:

http://www.academia....balised_economy

Unfortunately, it doesn't talk about media attention, and it places an emphasis on tourism, but it does talk about why image is important for attracting new businesses and investment.

 

 

 

A half century of ignoring the central core and subsidizing sprawl hurts the urban growth of Fort Worth. Exxon Mobil and American Airlines won't suddenly decide to build 80 story headquarters buildings downtown because an anchor in Des Moines remembers to attribute the latest amateur video of an overzealous cop to the right city or because a United pilot greets his flight from Newark with "welcome to Fort Worth". Is it lazy to mix up Fort Worth with Dallas? Yes. But it it doesn't have thing one to do with the city's development.

 

Really? You don't think that name recognition or the perception of a city has any influence on where companies or developers choose to build offices, condos, apartments, retail, etc.? We'll have to agree to disagree, I guess.

 

 

Companies that have any hope for success make decisions based on economic and financial factors, not touchy-feely intangibles like name recognition or perception.  Someone could make a claim that they do, but if you dig deep enough, you'll find that it all ultimately leads back to the money.  

 

 

Theoretically, if a company (or developer) thinks they can make more money in a metro anchor than a suburb, and they view Fort Worth as a suburb, they will overlook Fort Worth in search of other metro anchors.


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#143 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 12:50 AM

 

"Boundaries?"  How is that relevant.

 

In other words, geography is way too complicated for people so it is simpler to give in to perpetuating a "dumb down" audience then to be as accurate as the journalism profession should aspire to be.  What ever happened to the journalistic creeds: who..what..when..where? 

 

It seems that the New York Times is consistent when citing datelines for "Fort Worth" when the story is about and occurs in Fort Worth.  Apparently NYT does not seem to share the approach that its readers are ignorant as do some.

 

Beyond saying that the world and the country is more familiar with, what excuse other than laziness is there to blur facts?  It makes me wonder, how do outsiders ever find a place called Fort Worth?

 

 

Hate to break it to you, but in my many years of travelling around this country, most people I've met not that familiar with this state, know two things about Fort Worth.  1. It's in Texas and 2. It's somewhere near Dallas.  And most are not interested in knowing much more than that. And they have no real reason to be concerned with it.  The media also knows this (and are not that concerned as well)  so "Dallas" becomes the catch all.  Some sensitive people in Fort Worth are not going to change that especially since the majority of viewers and listeners are unconcerned about Fort Worth's location.   Perhaps if Fort Worth had transformed into a "cool"  immensely popular city like Austin things would be different. But it didn't and they're not. 

 

 

Many more people would care about Fort Worth if the national media treated Fort Worth the same way they treat Dallas and Austin.

 

People would care much less about Dallas or Austin if the national media were to ignore those cities the same way they ignore Fort Worth.


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#144 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 01:34 AM

Not specifically Fort Worth. 

 

I mean, unless you've actually been to the Detroit Metro area, you probably have no idea that it consists of 3 counties with strong tensions between Wayne Country (where Detroit is) and Oakland/Macomb Counties (where the money is).  That Pontiac is an urban center unto itself but also a suburb of Detroit.

 

There are various cities around Seattle, and having never been there myself, I have no idea what the relationship is between Seattle and Redmond, Bellevue and Everett.  I'm sure people who live there, or have traveled there, are better educated, but am I suffering from a "lack of interest and possible missed opportunities" because of this?  Do outside people need to know any of that?

 

Which brings us back to DFW.  People in Seattle or Detroit or Los Angeles or New York won't know the geography of DFW.  They will recognize Dallas as the largest city the area, Ft Worth if they happen to think about the initials in the name of the local airport, Arlington because of the Ballpark and Jerry World and maybe they've heard of another local city such as Mequite, Plano, Irving or maybe even the home of Kelly Clarkson, Burleson.

 

That's as much as one might expect an outsider to know about DFW.  If they know no more than that, are they ignorant to a fault?  No.  Such knowledge is of little use to someone in Detroit or Irvine unless they actually plan to come to this area.  For them, it's all Dallas, more or less, and that's good enough for them.

 

Pontiac, MI has a small downtown with no large office buildings. I'd consider it to be a satellite of Detroit.

 

- Everett, WA also has a small downtown wth no large office buildings. I'd consider it to be a satellite of Seattle.

- Bellevue is interesting because it has large office buildings. However, Historic Aerials shows that most large buildings were built since 1980, and it did not have a "downtown" at all in the early 20th century. I'd consider Bellevue to be a suburb since it grew because of its proximity to Seattle.

- Redmond is simply a suburb of Seattle without a downtown or any large office buildings.

 

For comparison, Fort Worth is a metro anchor with a large urban core and many large office buildings. Fort Worth has had large buildings since the early 1900s, and did not grow large because of its proximity to another city, unlike the suburbs and satellites mentioned above.

 

People across the U.S. consider Fort Worth to be a part of Dallas because of national media outlets who wrongly treat Fort Worth as a suburb.


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#145 mmmdan

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 12:11 PM

It would seem the city has an issue with its own residents.  KERA has an article about how/why Tarrant County in red.  All politics aside, this quote from the middle of the article to me is a huge problem with the city being recognized.

 

http://keranews.org/...otes-republican

 

 

“It is a very much more rural or bedroom-community-type thing,” says Fran Rhodes, who has lived in that area for years with her husband. “I don’t think of Fort Worth unless I go downtown, and you know that’s 20 miles away and an hour on the messed-up freeways." 



#146 Doohickie

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 12:49 PM

 

Not specifically Fort Worth. 

 

I mean, unless you've actually been to the Detroit Metro area, you probably have no idea that it consists of 3 counties with strong tensions between Wayne Country (where Detroit is) and Oakland/Macomb Counties (where the money is).  That Pontiac is an urban center unto itself but also a suburb of Detroit.

 

There are various cities around Seattle, and having never been there myself, I have no idea what the relationship is between Seattle and Redmond, Bellevue and Everett.  I'm sure people who live there, or have traveled there, are better educated, but am I suffering from a "lack of interest and possible missed opportunities" because of this?  Do outside people need to know any of that?

 

Which brings us back to DFW.  People in Seattle or Detroit or Los Angeles or New York won't know the geography of DFW.  They will recognize Dallas as the largest city the area, Ft Worth if they happen to think about the initials in the name of the local airport, Arlington because of the Ballpark and Jerry World and maybe they've heard of another local city such as Mequite, Plano, Irving or maybe even the home of Kelly Clarkson, Burleson.

 

That's as much as one might expect an outsider to know about DFW.  If they know no more than that, are they ignorant to a fault?  No.  Such knowledge is of little use to someone in Detroit or Irvine unless they actually plan to come to this area.  For them, it's all Dallas, more or less, and that's good enough for them.

 

Pontiac, MI has a small downtown with no large office buildings. I'd consider it to be a satellite of Detroit.

 

- Everett, WA also has a small downtown wth no large office buildings. I'd consider it to be a satellite of Seattle.

- Bellevue is interesting because it has large office buildings. However, Historic Aerials shows that most large buildings were built since 1980, and it did not have a "downtown" at all in the early 20th century. I'd consider Bellevue to be a suburb since it grew because of its proximity to Seattle.

- Redmond is simply a suburb of Seattle without a downtown or any large office buildings.

 

For comparison, Fort Worth is a metro anchor with a large urban core and many large office buildings. Fort Worth has had large buildings since the early 1900s, and did not grow large because of its proximity to another city, unlike the suburbs and satellites mentioned above.

 

People across the U.S. consider Fort Worth to be a part of Dallas because of national media outlets who wrongly treat Fort Worth as a suburb.

 

I get your point relative to history, but people outside of a given metro area don't really make such distinctions. 

 

It took a long, long time for Orange County, CA, to get any kind of recognition as an entity distinct from L.A. or San Diego.  It took having their own airport, major amusement parks, their own sports teams, etc., to get there.  For Fort Worth, it would probably take the same sort of identifiers.  And even then, Anaheim is still thought of by many as part of suburban L.A.

 

I can't argue with your logic in terms of why Fort Worth should be thought of its own urban center, but the perception that most people who've never been here have is that it is not distinct from Dallas.


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#147 eastfwther

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 12:58 PM

 

Not specifically Fort Worth. 

 

I mean, unless you've actually been to the Detroit Metro area, you probably have no idea that it consists of 3 counties with strong tensions between Wayne Country (where Detroit is) and Oakland/Macomb Counties (where the money is).  That Pontiac is an urban center unto itself but also a suburb of Detroit.

 

There are various cities around Seattle, and having never been there myself, I have no idea what the relationship is between Seattle and Redmond, Bellevue and Everett.  I'm sure people who live there, or have traveled there, are better educated, but am I suffering from a "lack of interest and possible missed opportunities" because of this?  Do outside people need to know any of that?

 

Which brings us back to DFW.  People in Seattle or Detroit or Los Angeles or New York won't know the geography of DFW.  They will recognize Dallas as the largest city the area, Ft Worth if they happen to think about the initials in the name of the local airport, Arlington because of the Ballpark and Jerry World and maybe they've heard of another local city such as Mequite, Plano, Irving or maybe even the home of Kelly Clarkson, Burleson.

 

That's as much as one might expect an outsider to know about DFW.  If they know no more than that, are they ignorant to a fault?  No.  Such knowledge is of little use to someone in Detroit or Irvine unless they actually plan to come to this area.  For them, it's all Dallas, more or less, and that's good enough for them.

 

Pontiac, MI has a small downtown with no large office buildings. I'd consider it to be a satellite of Detroit.

 

- Everett, WA also has a small downtown wth no large office buildings. I'd consider it to be a satellite of Seattle.

- Bellevue is interesting because it has large office buildings. However, Historic Aerials shows that most large buildings were built since 1980, and it did not have a "downtown" at all in the early 20th century. I'd consider Bellevue to be a suburb since it grew because of its proximity to Seattle.

- Redmond is simply a suburb of Seattle without a downtown or any large office buildings.

 

For comparison, Fort Worth is a metro anchor with a large urban core and many large office buildings. Fort Worth has had large buildings since the early 1900s, and did not grow large because of its proximity to another city, unlike the suburbs and satellites mentioned above.

 

People across the U.S. consider Fort Worth to be a part of Dallas because of national media outlets who wrongly treat Fort Worth as a suburb.

 

Bottom line is this: Fort Worth has done (and continues to do )  a lousy job of promoting itself.  "Cowboys and small town atmosphere" has done nothing to bring this city out of Dallas' shadow.  Fort Worth still does not attract big companies, sports teams, tv shows or much else that gets much attention.  There are people  bragging that Zuckerberg went to a rodeo here..big deal!!  Just keep pushing more cheezy cowboy culture that few people  outside of Fort Worth and Texas cares about. It's not the media's job to be Fort Worth's marketing firm and as you see, they have no interest in the job.  The problem with Fort Worth's lack of notoriety lies solely with Fort Worth. Stop blaming the media, it's just sad at this point. 



#148 Doohickie

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:47 PM

I wonder if there is some kind of mid-point.  I'm thinking of marketing the city alongside Dallas.  That would be a tough sell maybe to both sides with the civic egos involved.  If Fort Worth decided to do it though, they could probably do it without Dallas's cooperation, similar to the way Avis did their We Try Harder campaign to compare and contrast themselves with Hertz).


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#149 Austin55

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 03:01 PM

Who is Fort Worth supposed to be advertising to? TV viewers? Internet users? Corporations? 


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#150 Doohickie

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:58 PM

I'm just saying if they wanted to try to improve their image...


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