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Texas Central Railway - Proposed Bullet Train


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#101 RD Milhollin

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:01 AM

I wonder if the Fort Worth to ___ to Dallas bullet train would run on Sundays?



#102 Volare

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 08:26 PM

Only during the State Fair. :rolleyes:



#103 Not Sure

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 12:35 PM

So is that why the TRE was running last night? I had to take a train over the Duncan Sub. last night and when I talked to the TRE dispatcher I was told "we're running commuters tonight" which really took me by surprise.



#104 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:24 PM

Probably because of the state fair.


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#105 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:35 PM

I wonder if the Fort Worth to ___ to Dallas bullet train would run on Sundays?

 

Probably. Keep in mind the train's purpose is to connect the Metroplex to Houston, not Fort Worth to Dallas like the TRE. Think more along the lines of extra-fast Amtrak trains rather than extra-fast TRE trains.

 

 

Come to think of it, that doesn't leave any time for track maintenance, which I've heard is the reason why the TRE doesn't run on Sundays. So maybe not.


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#106 JBB

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 07:50 PM

The TRE has run on Sundays during the State Fair since the DART green line opened in 2009.

 

And I've hear of maintenance as a speculated reason for the TRE not running on Sunday, but I've always assumed it was for lack of demand.  Rail transit around the world runs 7 days a week and they somehow all figure out a way to do maintenance.



#107 renamerusk

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 09:58 PM

..... Rail transit around the world runs 7 days a week and they somehow all figure out a way to do maintenance.

 

True, except that TRE is not transit; it is commuter rail.   So much the pity. 

 

I came across some ridership data lately and found that ridership on TRE has declined in recent years.



#108 Electricron

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:23 PM

 

..... Rail transit around the world runs 7 days a week and they somehow all figure out a way to do maintenance.

 

True, except that TRE is not transit; it is commuter rail.   So much the pity. 

 

I came across some ridership data lately and found that ridership on TRE has declined in recent years.

 

DART's Orange line has probably stolen some TRE riders  from Irving east, although without station data it'll be difficult to prove on paper. TRE's fares have also gone up, which usually results in lowering ridership too.



#109 JBB

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:42 AM

 

..... Rail transit around the world runs 7 days a week and they somehow all figure out a way to do maintenance.

 

True, except that TRE is not transit; it is commuter rail.   So much the pity. 

 

 

 

Fair enough.  But it doesn't change my point.  Commuter rail around the world runs 7 days a week and they somehow all figure out a way to do maintenance.



#110 renamerusk

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:39 AM

True, except that TRE is not transit; it is commuter rail.   So much the pity. 
 

Fair enough.  But it doesn't change my point.  Commuter rail around the world runs 7 days a week and they somehow all figure out a way to do maintenance.

 

It sounds like you and I are fundamentally in agreement.  I would only add that TRE is receiving public funds from the general populations, yet is servicing a narrow slice of the public -  the traditional 8-5, work week commuter.  It would seem to me to be more equitable if TRE would operate a schedule that would accommodate the public daily.

 

Fort Worth over everyone.



#111 renamerusk

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:46 AM

 

I came across some ridership data lately and found that ridership on TRE has declined in recent years.

 

DART's Orange line has probably stolen some TRE riders  from Irving east, although without station data it'll be difficult to prove on paper. TRE's fares have also gone up, which usually results in lowering ridership too.

 

 

Since the DART Orange Line through Irving only began operating in June 2012, I don't believe that it is a plausible contributor to the decline in TRE ridership.

 

TRE annual ridership data:

 

http://www.trinityra...g/aboutTRE.html



#112 AndyN

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 01:33 PM

I spent last week in Los Angeles. I rode everything. And I mean, everything. Taxi, Express Bus, Bus, Bus Rapid Transit, Light Rail, Commuter Rail, streetcar, subway. The LA system is much improved since my last long visit in 1998 (except the funicular was closed awaiting new wheels this time). One thing I did notice was seven day a week service on the light rail and the commuter rail. The light rail ran about 22 hours a day. The commuter line I took between San Bernardino and downtown LA runs 4am-Midnight:30 M-F. Saturday 6a-1a and Sunday service was 6a-11p. Makes the "maintenance" excuse sound laughable.

 

There was no shortage of service and most of the lines I rode had great ridership.

 

I don't think that light rail and commuter rail are necessarily the same creature as high speed rail, tho. I couldn't imagine they wouldn't have Sunday service if they want to be a serious competitor to airlines. Sunday afternoon/evening is peak demand for people trying to get home in time for work on Monday.


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#113 Electricron

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:50 PM

Not all commuter rail agencies run trains 7 days a week over every line. So which ones do, and which do not?

Here's a list of commuter rail lines in the USA.....

MBTA: (?) trains M-F on 12 lines, (?) trains S-S on 9 lines, 0 trains S-S on 3 lines

Shoreline East: 30 trains M-F, 18 trains S-S

LIRR: (?) trains M-F on 11 lines, (?) trains S-S on 11 lines

MNRR: (?) trains M-F on 9 lines, (?) trains S-S on 9 lines

NJT: (?) trains M-F on 8 lines, (?) trains S-S on 8 lines

SEPTA: (?) trains M-F on 16 lines, (?) trains S-S on 15 lines, 0 trains S-S on 1 line

MARC: 95 trains M-F, 0 S-S trains (Starting Dec 7 will have 9 Sat trains and 6 Sun trains on Penn Line only)

VRE: 30 trains M-F, 0 trains S-S

TriRail: 50 train M-F, 30 trains S-S 

Merta: 271 trains M-F to Union Station, just 8 of 11 lines, (?) trains S-S

NICTD: 41 trains M-F, 20 trains Sat, 0 trains Sun

Northstar: 12 trains M-F, 6 trains S-S

TRE: 47 trains M-F, 23 trains Sat, only special events on Sun

Railrunner: 23 trains M-F, 11 trains Sat, 7 trains Sun

UTA: 62 trains M-F, 42 trains Sat, 0 trains Sun

Sounder: 28 trains M-F. only special events trains on S-S

WES: 32 trains M-F, 0 trains S-S

CalTrains: 92 trains M-F, 34 trains Sat, 30 trains Sun

Metrolink: (?) trains M-F on 7 lines, (?) trains S-S on 4 lines, 0 trains S-S on 4 lines

Coaster: 22 trains M-F, 8 trains S-S

 

Large, multiple lines systems are difficult to count trains mainly because one could if one was willing to count the number of trains per each line and add them all up, and I'm not willing to do so for more than three lines. That's why there are so many (?)s on this list. As for Merta, I found some daily train data for Union Station, but 3 of the 11 lines don't go there, but you get the idea there's lots more trains than on some.

 

Never-the-less, of the 20 commuter rail agencies listed above, 10 agencies don't provide services on Sunday on at least one line. 4 agencies provide services on Sunday on some lines but not others. 3 agencies provide services on Saturday but not on Sunday. 10 agencies provide services on Sunday on every line. Every agency that does provide services on weekends, does so at a greatly reduced level. 



#114 AndyN

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:12 AM

So in spite of the data barf in your reply, you're finally admitting that it is possible to run service on Sunday?


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#115 JBB

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:19 AM

I also don't think anyone is saying that every commuter line runs a full Sunday schedule.  My point was just that the maintenance excuse doesn't pass the sniff test. 



#116 Electricron

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:27 AM

It certainly makes performing track maintenance faster, easier, and safer when the trains are not running on them. 

 

Whether the trains run on Sundays or not depends upon the trade-offs that you are wiling to make. Every train that does run on Sunday sees significantly less riders. Shucks, they see significantly less riders on Saturday too. Where would you rather spend your money, have a few trains running on Sunday or more trains on weekdays? That's the decision these transit agency boards are making. I would like to point out that some of those running trains on Sundays are running less trains than the TRE on weekdays. 



#117 renamerusk

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:18 PM

It certainly makes performing track maintenance faster, easier, and safer when the trains are not running on them. 

 

  Are there freight trains that run on the tracks on Sundays?



#118 Keller Pirate

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:46 PM

Yes, freight trains do run on Sunday.  I think the original maintenance excuse was during the time when a lot of construction was being done on the line a few years ago.  During that time the freights did not operate on Sunday's, they had to try and detour on the UP.  I'm not sure how much, if any construction is taking place now.  Most likely the old maintenance excuse is left over, even though there isn't as much work going on.  Of course, we could be talking maintenance on the rolling stock.  I suspect at this time they are just trying to save money by not offering service on Sunday.



#119 BlueMound

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:12 PM

Interesting debate going on in England about HS2 (High Speed Rail 2)
This is a proposed high speed & freight rail linking London up to Edinburgh
It will function as a Strategic National Transport Corridor.
http://www.dailymail...-HS2-route.html

#120 mmiller2002

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:01 PM

Doesn't freight traffic beat-up the rails? Better to keep separate lines like in a lot of dense Japan.



#121 Electricron

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:46 PM

Doesn't freight traffic beat-up the rails? Better to keep separate lines like in a lot of dense Japan.

Japan's cities, much like England, that generate most of its freight lie on the coast, where shipping by sea rules because it is cheaper. Little of the long distance freight is moved by rail in Japan. Most of its freight by rail goes to the closest sea port. I'm suggesting short distance locals that FWWR and DGNO do in DFW area, not the long cross country trains you see in America by BNSF and UP. So, we're comparing apples to oranges when discussing the differences between freight rail in Japan and America. 



#122 Not Sure

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:27 AM

 

Doesn't freight traffic beat-up the rails? Better to keep separate lines like in a lot of dense Japan.

Japan's cities, much like England, that generate most of its freight lie on the coast, where shipping by sea rules because it is cheaper. Little of the long distance freight is moved by rail in Japan. Most of its freight by rail goes to the closest sea port. I'm suggesting short distance locals that FWWR and DGNO do in DFW area, not the long cross country trains you see in America by BNSF and UP. So, we're comparing apples to oranges when discussing the differences between freight rail in Japan and America. 

 

 

Yes, the freight traffic will tear up the track and do it quickly. When a portion of track fails inspection but is still passable, it will have a speed restriction placed on it until it can be repaired. The more severe the defect, the lower the speed restriction. Most often, the defects that affect freight and passenger trains will have two different speeds posted for each class of service with the higher speed reserved for passenger service.

 

If you are talking about high speed rail, I don't think there's any way you could have a track that could support the speeds necessary to make it work and also have that same rail carry freight traffic. Part of what makes high speed rail equipment work is that it is not designed to crash into a freight train. That means it can be significantly lighter, which enables quicker acceleration and higher speed and greater efficiency. Commuter rail equipment that operates on freight rails must be held to that higher crashworthiness standard, which is why you have essentially freight locomotives with head-end power capability on the TRE. Anything smaller wouldn't achieve the crashworthiness standard. So, either you have overbuilt, heavy passenger trains to share right-of-way with freight trains (what we have now with the TRE and Amtrak) or you separate the two and actually achieve high speed rail and actually move freight. The way it is on shared rights-of-way, not much of either happens.



#123 Not Sure

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:40 AM

 

 

..... Rail transit around the world runs 7 days a week and they somehow all figure out a way to do maintenance.

 

True, except that TRE is not transit; it is commuter rail.   So much the pity. 

 

 

 

Fair enough.  But it doesn't change my point.  Commuter rail around the world runs 7 days a week and they somehow all figure out a way to do maintenance.

 

 

The same is true of freight rail. It's a 24 hour a day world and track defects - depending on severity, of course - can be corrected at any hour.



#124 BlueMound

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 07:11 PM

High Speed Rail could be built connecting Singapore to China through Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam
http://nextbigfuture...ia-and.html?m=1
'will provide tight integration of China to ASEAN economies'

#125 Electricron

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 09:13 PM

The same is true of freight rail. It's a 24 hour a day world and track defects - depending on severity, of course - can be corrected at any hour.

 

Usually, if the track defect is bad enough, the track in question is closed to services when the repairs are underway. Freight railroads have the advantage of diverting traffic onto other lines, or can just wait until the track reopens. Passenger trains can experience significant delays. How would you like to ride the TRE from downtown to downtown, a trip that should take less than an hour, into a five or six hour trip? 



#126 Not Sure

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 02:02 AM

 

The same is true of freight rail. It's a 24 hour a day world and track defects - depending on severity, of course - can be corrected at any hour.

 

Usually, if the track defect is bad enough, the track in question is closed to services when the repairs are underway. Freight railroads have the advantage of diverting traffic onto other lines, or can just wait until the track reopens.

 

Rarely is there a defect that is that bad, especially on this line. There is too much traffic to allow the rail to get bad enough to shut it down, so they are pretty vigilant with the inspections and repairs. Except in the case of accidents, such as a grade crossing accident, catastrophic failure is very rare and defects are almost always caught before they get to that point. But, if something as bad as a break in the rail was to occur, there would be no choice but to shut it down and repair it. However, in the case of the TRE, there is a significant amount of the line that has a siding or is two main tracks, so a defect on one rail could be bypassed on the other in many cases.

 

It's pretty rare that freight railroads divert traffic to other lines, but it does happen occasionally. Most railroads don't have the redundancy required to do so, even when taking trackage rights agreements into consideration. The fact of the matter is so few UP crews are qualified to run on BNSF rails and vice versa that it's just not practical. For example, I can count on one hand the number of engineers I know qualified to run on the UP Midlothian Subdivision, and even fewer are qualified on the UP Fort Worth Subdivision south of Ney Yard. Instead, most often the freight just stacks up and runs after the maintenance window ends. 

 

Passenger trains can experience significant delays. How would you like to ride the TRE from downtown to downtown, a trip that should take less than an hour, into a five or six hour trip? 

 

I have that beat. I once took a grain train from Birds to Crowley in just under 12 hours. Longest. Day. Ever.  :laugh:


#127 renamerusk

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 02:35 AM

Rarely is there a defect that is that bad, especially on this line...........Instead, most often the freight just stacks up and runs after the maintenance window ends.

 

I have that beat. I once took a grain train from Birds to Crowley in just under 12 hours. Longest. Day. Ever.  :laugh:

 

 

Great points, Not Sure, every one of them.  Reading your comments, I had guessed that you might be employed in the rail road sector...Right?



#128 Not Sure

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:50 PM

 

Rarely is there a defect that is that bad, especially on this line...........Instead, most often the freight just stacks up and runs after the maintenance window ends.

 

I have that beat. I once took a grain train from Birds to Crowley in just under 12 hours. Longest. Day. Ever.  :laugh:

 

 

Great points, Not Sure, every one of them.  Reading your comments, I had guessed that you might be employed in the rail road sector...Right?

 

 

That is correct. Locomotive engineer.



#129 Electricron

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 07:59 PM

 

Rarely is there a defect that is that bad, especially on this line. There is too much traffic to allow the rail to get bad enough to shut it down, so they are pretty vigilant with the inspections and repairs. Except in the case of accidents, such as a grade crossing accident, catastrophic failure is very rare and defects are almost always caught before they get to that point. But, if something as bad as a break in the rail was to occur, there would be no choice but to shut it down and repair it. However, in the case of the TRE, there is a significant amount of the line that has a siding or is two main tracks, so a defect on one rail could be bypassed on the other in many cases.

 

It's pretty rare that freight railroads divert traffic to other lines, but it does happen occasionally. Most railroads don't have the redundancy required to do so, even when taking trackage rights agreements into consideration. The fact of the matter is so few UP crews are qualified to run on BNSF rails and vice versa that it's just not practical. For example, I can count on one hand the number of engineers I know qualified to run on the UP Midlothian Subdivision, and even fewer are qualified on the UP Fort Worth Subdivision south of Ney Yard. Instead, most often the freight just stacks up and runs after the maintenance window ends. 

 

I'll agree with you that few engineers/conductors are qualified on another railroad companies corridors. But how many different routes can the UP take between DFW and Houston today, assuming one route was blocked by flash floods? I can think of at least three routes. BNSF has two routes. So there are more alternates available for freights than inter-city passenger rail. 



#130 Not Sure

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:47 AM

I'll agree with you that few engineers/conductors are qualified on another railroad companies corridors. But how many different routes can the UP take between DFW and Houston today, assuming one route was blocked by flash floods? I can think of at least three routes. BNSF has two routes. So there are more alternates available for freights than inter-city passenger rail. 

 

 

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you there, because Amtrak could use all of those since both UP and BNSF are participating roads. Using your example, that's five routes DFW to Houston. With Amtrak in particular, when a major route is closed to floods, landslide, derailment or some other problem, it isn't unheard of for Amtrak to be detoured on another railroad. 



#131 RD Milhollin

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 01:31 PM

A UTA study recommends using existing highway right of way for new high speed rail corridors… including I-20 between Dallas and Fort Worth. Mention is made in the article of the I-30 corridor, and a photo of the unused paved median is included:

 

http://www.star-tele...cates.html?rh=1



#132 Not Sure

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 03:56 PM

A UTA study recommends using existing highway right of way for new high speed rail corridors… including I-20 between Dallas and Fort Worth. Mention is made in the article of the I-30 corridor, and a photo of the unused paved median is included:

 

http://www.star-tele...cates.html?rh=1

 

That's a great plan for tangents. What about curves? A 4 Degree curve on a railroad is considered tight and is subject to speed restrictions. For information, a 4 Degree curve has a radius of 1432.7 feet.

 

I'm also interested in how the line would be addressed at interchanges, where stations are required, liability issues related to the privately owned railroad on state land in the event of an accident, faulty construction, etc. Remember this?

 

http://youtu.be/uFGs6hieZg4

 

How would you like to see that coming at you while driving home after a long day at work?

 

I think it's a good idea, but one that could easily be very badly executed.



#133 Electricron

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 11:10 PM

I'm going to have to disagree with you there, because Amtrak could use all of those since both UP and BNSF are participating roads. Using your example, that's five routes DFW to Houston. With Amtrak in particular, when a major route is closed to floods, landslide, derailment or some other problem, it isn't unheard of for Amtrak to be detoured on another railroad. 

 

Look at what Amtrak did during construction work on the Chicago to St. Louis tracks as an example what happens to passenger trains. The trains were CANCELLED and replace with buses (using I-55), except for the Texas Eagle - which was rerouted without any intermediate stations between St. Louis and Chicago. The Eagle's riders also took buses to the intermediate stations. 

I remember the Eagle being cancelled for several days because it's tracks in southern Missouri and northern Arkansas (Ozarks) were washed out. Amtrak did not reroute the trains, and did not substitute buses for the cancelled trains. Amtrak did provide buses for the two trains that were in service when the washouts occurred. 

Finding an alternate route is easier to do when you have time to make the arrangements with the host railroads and have time to train your engineers to the alternate route. The key work is time. If the loss of tracks occurs unplanned, the trains are usually terminated.

The Sunset Limited east of New Orleans has been terminated since Hurricane Katrina washed out the tracks, and while the tracks have been repaired, the Sunset hasn't restarted service. 



#134 Electricron

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 11:30 PM

A UTA study recommends using existing highway right of way for new high speed rail corridors… including I-20 between Dallas and Fort Worth. Mention is made in the article of the I-30 corridor, and a photo of the unused paved median is included:

 

http://www.star-tele...cates.html?rh=1

That unused median will be used for managed lanes (tolls) once the new mixmaster, I-30 and I-35 bridges in downtown Dallas are completed.  HSR trains along the I-30 corridor will have to placed on elevated tracks adjacent to the freeway, between the main lanes and service roads. It'll look like the new managed lanes on Stemmons and LBJ freeways - except the traffic will not be cars and trucks going 80 mph illegally, but trains going 200 mph. The noise from such trains will be deafening.

 

Suppose someone built a HSR corridor the 30 miles between Dallas and Fort Worth, who is going to use it? Texas Central may not come and use it, even if they don't have to pay to use it. Their financial model is similar to FEC AAF train between Orlando and Miami - real estate developments adjacent to their stations is their key for success. While there might be land available in downtown Fort Worth near the tracks east of downtown, there isn't much demand for new developments. 



#135 BlueMound

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 04:57 PM

China's High Speed Rail Web will drive transcontinental commerce and political dominance

http://nextbigfuture...will-drive.html



#136 RD Milhollin

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 10:57 AM

Bill Meadows from Fort Worth to be first chair of the Texas High Speed Rail Commission; will push for HOU-FTW HSR line.

 

HA! HSR right down the middle of I-30!

 

http://www.star-tele...es-default?rh=1

 

I am thinking less and less that a HSR stop in Arlington or at DFW Airport is a good idea. Where HSR works the stations are in the city centers, and the advantage over air travel is in the time from central city origination to central city destination. There needs to be a better system of regional transportation to get people, residents or visitors, from city centre to other destinations, such as tractor pulls and airports. My same thinking is telling me more and more that The T is not capable of providing what is needed in regional rail transit for Tarrant County, that DART needs to be recognized by Fort Worth leaders as the regional commuter and light rail provider. 



#137 renamerusk

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 12:15 PM

Bill Meadows from Fort Worth to be first chair of the Texas High Speed Rail Commission; will push for HOU-FTW HSR line.

 

... that DART needs to be recognized by Fort Worth leaders as the regional commuter and light rail provider. 

 

I did not get that impression at all.

 

What Mr. Meadows seems to be doing is drawing a clear line as to what Fort Worth and Tarrant County will or will not accept.

 

Until DART, who until now has remain silent about the Fort Worth's HSR concerns, takes an affirmative position about our concerns, then I don't think Fort Worth will or should make that recognition - surrendering that responsibility to a rival is unwise.

 

The T can be directed to focus on Fort Worth to make the city a crosstown web of bus and streetcar transit.  I think regional commuting goals are being, for better or worse, addressed by projects now and on the drawing board of the NTTA.



#138 Electricron

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:26 PM

Bill Meadows from Fort Worth to be first chair of the Texas High Speed Rail Commission; will push for HOU-FTW HSR line.

 

HA! HSR right down the middle of I-30!

 

http://www.star-tele...es-default?rh=1

 

I am thinking less and less that a HSR stop in Arlington or at DFW Airport is a good idea. Where HSR works the stations are in the city centers, and the advantage over air travel is in the time from central city origination  to central city destination. There needs to be a better system of regional transportation to get people, residents or visitors, from city centre to other destinations, such as tractor pulls and airports. My same thinking is that telling me more and more that The T is not capable of providing what is needed in regional rail transit for Tarrant County, that DART needs to be recognized by Fort Worth leaders as the regional commuter and light rail provider. 

The key paragraph in that news article is:

"The Texas Central Railway said it could build the system while taking into account local sentiment. While the company can pay the estimated $10 billion for the Houston-to-Dallas connection, it makes no such promises about funding the Dallas-to-Fort Worth portion."

 

While the Texas High Speed Rail Commission may set State policies about HSR, without bonding or taxing authority it will have zero powers over a private enterprise regulated by the FRA (Federal Railroad Administration).

 

Additionally, the I-30 and I-35 bridges over the Trinity River in Dallas have already had their designs set in stone, without any consideration given for HSR tracks. I think it's a little late to be changing the I-30 bridge design - construction contracts have already been signed and construction is underway. 

 

Do you believe that Grand Prairie and Arlington citizens will tolerate "noisy" 200+ mph trains running over I-30?

Do you really believe they will without a HSR train station? I believe it's far easier to implement HSR in rural areas than in urban areas, mainly because there are less people with fewer votes in rural areas. The reason getting into central Dallas is even remotely possible is because the rail line is routed through the great Trinity Forest in the Trinity River bottom lands.

 

Appointing the head of this Commission to a Fort Worth businessman is just a bone thrown towards Fort Worth to keep them happy, but the Commission will be exhaling just hot air!



#139 renamerusk

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 04:22 PM

 

Bill Meadows from Fort Worth to be first chair of the Texas High Speed Rail Commission; will push for HOU-FTW HSR line....HA! HSR right down the middle of I-30!....

 

My same thinking is that telling me more and more that The T is not capable of providing what is needed in regional rail transit for Tarrant County, that DART needs to be recognized by Fort Worth leaders as the regional commuter and light rail provider. 

 

The key paragraph in that news article is:

"The Texas Central Railway said it could build the system while taking into account local sentiment. While the company can pay the estimated $10 billion for the Houston-to-Dallas connection, it makes no such promises about funding the Dallas-to-Fort Worth portion."


Additionally, the I-30 and I-35 bridges over the Trinity River in Dallas have already had their designs set in stone, without any consideration given for HSR tracks. I think it's a little late to be changing the I-30 bridge design - construction contracts have already been signed and construction is underway. ....Do you believe that Grand Prairie and Arlington citizens will tolerate "noisy" 200+ mph trains running over I-30?.

 

Appointing the head of this Commission to a Fort Worth businessman is just a bone thrown towards Fort Worth to keep them happy, but the Commission will be exhaling just hot air!

 

 

A BONE!

 

Is this the sort of regional spirit that you are hoping for?

 

Fort Worth over everyone.



#140 RD Milhollin

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 10:42 PM

Monterrey NL to San Antonio TX in 2 Hours? HSR project being proposed:

 

http://www.star-tele...high-speed.html

 

The Mexicans have a leg-up on this project, and if it goes "fast-track" could set the standard for HSR in this part of the country, as other projects would need to be able to connect to it. As regards ground transportation, the US is looking more and more like a "third-world country". 



#141 RD Milhollin

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 01:16 PM

Here is a story shown on the noon WFAA Channel 8 News - Texas High Speed Rail Commission:

 

http://www.wfaa.com/...-242490161.html

 

Does this seem like deja vu to anyone else?



#142 Fort Worthology

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:05 PM

It's completely deja vu.  "Texas exploring high-speed rail" - we've been "exploring" it for how many years now?  And at this rate, we'll be exploring it indefinitely into the future without ever actually doing anything.



#143 renamerusk

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:28 AM

Bill Meadows from Fort Worth to be first chair of the Texas High Speed Rail Commission; will push for HOU-FTW HSR line.

 

HA! HSR right down the middle of I-30!

 

 

 


What Mr. Meadows seems to be doing is drawing a clear line as to what Fort Worth and Tarrant County will or will not accept.

 


"it makes no such promises about funding the Dallas-to-Fort Worth portion."

 

While the Texas High Speed Rail Commission may set State policies about HSR, without bonding or taxing authority it will have zero powers over a private enterprise regulated by the FRA (Federal Railroad Administration).

 

Appointing the head of this Commission to a Fort Worth businessman is just a bone thrown towards Fort Worth to keep them happy, but the Commission will be exhaling just hot air!

 

 

"Associate Professor Mattingly found that each of the routes – which include Interstates 20, 35 and 45 and Texas 6 – could contain the high-speed rail within existing TxDOT right of way, which would greatly reduces the capital cost of building the system.... the  case study didn’t pinpoint exact costs of a high-speed rail system for Texas, it did outline some possible funding mechanism to support construction, including federal involvement, state and local funds, tax increment financing districts and public/private partnerships". - Department of Civil Engineering, University of Texas at Arlington

The fact that 3 of the 4 routes identified as HSR corridors favor Fort Worth demonstrates that the Texas High Speed Rail Commission (THSRC) is doing more than exhaling hot air.; and in fact doing two things: (1) It is also actually placing itself in competition with Texas Central Railway by including multiple metropolitan areas and by doing so, garnering more statewide support; and  (2) It is actually making things a bit more dicey for Texas Central Railway (TCR) to secure the investment that it hopes to raise.

Clearly, not only is the interests of Fort Worth being addressed; as if that was not enough by itself, it really becomes a no-brainer when one recognizes that Fort Worth is positioned geographically as the keystone to a statewide system. A statewide system that would eventually connect West Texas (El Paso, Midland/Odessa ,Amarillo/Lubbock and Abilene to points south of North Texas like Waco, Bryan, Houston, Austin, San Antonio and Laredo.  A statewide system that must travel through Fort Worth to be efficient even to connect to the TCR route.

If the THSRC prevails over TCR, a more likely outcome with the THSRC plan serving more of the state's cities,  then it will actually  become crucial for Dallas to push for a spur along I-30 from Fort Worth to be connected to the statewide system. 

 

Reading recent tea leaves published in the press, one can say with a bit more confidence that “A spur to Dallas” is why I-30 is being preferred for HSR; and that THSRC may have already be ahead of TCR having designated a preferred route and gained the support of key North Texas governmental agencies.
 



#144 Electricron

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 12:06 PM

Professors don't build and operate trains. When's the last time UTA ran a train?

Sure there's room, but when it comes to running, maintaining, and operating a train system, I think I'll listen to the folks from Japan who do. 

You still haven't countered why Arlington and Grand Prairie citizens should ever accept 200 mph trains 25 to 30 feet above I-30? 



#145 JBB

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 12:30 PM

How many practical, useful transit systems could have been built in Texas with the money that has been flushed down the toilet on studying HSR systems that don't have a snowball's chance in hell of happening?



#146 RD Milhollin

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 01:43 PM

I think I'll listen to the folks from Japan who do. 

You still haven't countered why Arlington and Grand Prairie citizens should ever accept 200 mph trains 25 to 30 feet above I-30? 

 

I would like to hear the Europeans weigh in; the landscape here (natural and manmade) more closely resembles parts of Europe than any part of Japan. This is a relative comparison of course, but there are parts of Europe where HSR operates that have similar topography and population density to parts of Texas. No part of Japan could be thought of as qualifying for that comparison.

 

Did (or could have) Arlington and Grand Prairie citizens have any impact on interstate (or similar) highways being pushed through their city limits? A 200 mph train, computer controlled and grade separated, is safer by several degrees of magnitude, and probably about similar in sound impact, than highways with individually piloted cars routinely traveling at 80 mph and faster under varying degrees of operator control. Did I mention Harleys and semi-trucks? Citizens will of course be invited to comment, but can you seriously say that they could veto such a project if it had state, federal, and corporate backing?



#147 renamerusk

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 02:21 PM

Professors don't build and operate trains. When's the last time UTA ran a train?

Sure there's room, but when it comes to running, maintaining, and operating a train system, I think I'll listen to the folks from Japan who do. 

You still haven't countered why Arlington and Grand Prairie citizens should ever accept 200 mph trains 25 to 30 feet above I-30? 

 

Yes, but every major infrastructure project is supported by well founded research.  No state agency or smart investor will go forth with investing money without that data.  Your comment just does not make sense.

 

Listening to the folks in Japan is like listening to Madoff - promising a lot for just a little; in fact, I think TCR hopes to eventually get public funds and cooperation once they get too deeply down a black hole.  Invest as you think and like; its your money, however, THSRC has exerted its preference.

 

As both Arlington and Grand Prairie are towns who owe their existence to the railroad, I don't necessarily follow your argument.  For all of my life, these cities have accepted 24/7 trains rumbling through their city centers with hardly any public outcry that would indicate an unwillingness to accept HSR along I-30.  Do you have compelling evidence to present otherwise?

 

Fort Worth over everyone.



#148 RD Milhollin

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:25 PM

The FW Business Journal has a very quick bleep about this with no link to follow. A quick search on TXDoT found the following:

 

http://www.txdot.gov...homa-rail.html/

 

Follow the "Participate Online" link to find out more about this study; what it covers and what it doesn't, and what options are considered.



#149 Electricron

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:23 AM

A better link to the alternates being studied:

http://ftp.dot.state...resentation.pdf

The only section using TXDOT's highway property is the I-30 between FW and D.

Greenfield sections (new rail corridor) between Norman and Laredo, Norman to Edinburgh, both via Dallas

Existing Rail corridor sections using both BNSF and UP corridors between Oklahoma City and Temple via both Dallas and Fort Worth, with UP and KCS corridors south of Temple. Additionally a KCS corridor between Denton and Dallas. 

 

If they choose to implement using existing rail corridors and sharing the tracks, expect the study to limit train speeds to a max of 90 mph. To go faster, expect new dedicated tracks in the corridor separated from the existing tracks by at 25 feet for BNSF, and 50 feet for UP. To go faster than 110 mph in any section of track, compete grade separation is basically required by FRA. If they choose to using brand new greenfield corridors, max speeds can increase to 200 mph.

 At speeds less than 125 mph, number of trains per direction would be limited to a max of a dozen (two dozen in total for both directions). With a brand new greenfield corridor, a dozen to two dozen trains per direction will be the limitations (single track with passing sidings?)

The faster the trains go, the more expensive the trains service gets. It's not set in stone whether the trains will go through D or FW yet. 

 

----What should be pointed out-----

These questions will not be answered by the study:

Where would new rail be constructed?

What would the impacts be to specific properties?

When would new service be available?

Exactly where would the stations be located?

 

These questions will be answered by the study:

Is improved passenger rail a good idea?

What kind of passenger rail is feasible?

What are the costs, impacts, and benefits of passenger rail service?

What cities would be served by passenger rail?

 

I would like to point out that there is no funding mechanism in place for any actions upon the completion of the study. That's what I call lots of "hot air".

Additionally, this study isn't looking at any potential rail routes between Dallas and Houston. Not one inch. So it basically will have no effect upon Texas Central's plans.



#150 renamerusk

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:15 AM


The only section using TXDOT's highway property is the I-30 between FW and D. .....I would like to point out that there is no funding mechanism in place for any actions upon the completion of the study. That's what I call lots of "hot air"....Additionally, this study isn't looking at any potential rail routes between Dallas and Houston. Not one inch. So it basically will have no effect upon Texas Central's plans.

 

Isn't I-35 TXDOT highway property?

 

 
Connect the dots.   Waco (I-35) tells it all for me. Where is there a I-45 dot like, for instance,  Corsicana or Huntsville?  

 

Whether one knows it or not; one is willing to accept it or not,  there is already starting to be an effect upon the TCR proposal and one can assume so from TCR's loud silence on these recent developments.  My guess is that TCR hopes to eventually join in with the Texas-Oklahoma-Republic of Mexico plans (funds) and Federal funds which will follow.  Perhaps TCR desire is to offer their administrative skills as a contractor.  I feel that TCR does not want to be in competition with TXDOT.

The hot air is actually coming from TXDOT’s suddenly making hot noise about HSR
 






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