9 replies to this topic

[BlueMound]

2 apartment developments planned for Downtown South
Link to article

Phoenix Apartments (behind the Stage West/W. Vickery)

High Point on South Main (south main and pennsylvania)
an ambitious mixed-use project

Also the Berkley Apartments - already mentioned on another thread

[wfsmith10]

Yes! sounds awesome. I wonder what the layout will look like at the Pheonix apts?

[cberen1]

The slums of tomorrow? I always worry about the longevity of dense, relatively low cost rental construction.

[wfsmith10]

The slums of tomorrow? I always worry about the longevity of dense, relatively low cost rental construction.

The mixed use, centrally located, and less car dependent nature of these neighborhoods should mitigate this risk much more than neighborhoods that were built between WWII and 1990, then abandoned. The difference is that pedestrian & transit oriented neighborhoods are much more coheisive because the average travel radius is much smaller. Moreover, these developments actually create a sense of place and community.

The general idea is that people are much less inclined to leave a place that they feel a connection to and a place that doesn't encourage them to get in the automobile for every single chore.

[cberen1]

The general idea is that people are much less inclined to leave a place that they feel a connection to and a place that doesn't encourage them to get in the automobile for every single chore.

I'm familiar with the concept. I think it's a neat idea. It's just that cheap tends to stay cheap. Most (but not all) of the construction I see that was built for rental purposes more than 30 years ago hasn't aged all that well. Some properties have a long, useful life and others don't.

When I think of the benefits of diversification in "mixed use" part of what I want to see is some level of owner occupancy. I guess I'm not seeing it in these developments. The original goal in West 7th was a renter / owner mix, but the economy pushed the mix almost exclusively to rental. It worked out for the developers, but there has to be a "give" down the road. I suspect it will come in the form of neighborhood longevity.

[wfsmith10]

The general idea is that people are much less inclined to leave a place that they feel a connection to and a place that doesn't encourage them to get in the automobile for every single chore.

I'm familiar with the concept. I think it's a neat idea. It's just that cheap tends to stay cheap. Most (but not all) of the construction I see that was built for rental purposes more than 30 years ago hasn't aged all that well. Some properties have a long, useful life and others don't.

When I think of the benefits of diversification in "mixed use" part of what I want to see is some level of owner occupancy. I guess I'm not seeing it in these developments. The original goal in West 7th was a renter / owner mix, but the economy pushed the mix almost exclusively to rental. It worked out for the developers, but there has to be a "give" down the road. I suspect it will come in the form of neighborhood longevity.

Definitely a valid concern, however I still maintain my stance. To use your W7th example: Yes there may be some significant shift from the rent market to the sale market, but because W7th is becoming not only becoming a great place to live but great place to be , i have a feeling the market will be able to adapt though renovations & re-furbishings when the time comes. People won't just say "ahh F it" then pack up and abandon their community.

That being said, it would obviously be advantagous to have a better renter/owner mix today, but I think we just have to work with the cards the economy has dealt to us and continue to make progress while being mindful of the degradation risk.

[hannerhan]

Definitely good points on both sides. One one hand it's true that too many apartments is generally going to be bad in the long run, but on the other hand West 7th is much different than the average location when it comes to development...ie smack between a vibrant downtown and a vibrant cultural district.

But there is also an issue with some of the new construction in terms of quality. Take a look at the new "Lancaster North" apartments going up (which are basic wood frame just like you'd see in the suburbs) and compare that to the reasonably high quality level of Museum Place, and it's clear that in 20 years you are going to have very different price points even if the spread is pretty tight initially.

[Russ Graham]

Curious if anybody knows exactly where Phoenix apts are going?

Also, speaking of "slums of tomorrow", a new apartment complex is going to be built where St Donovan street is now, off of Boland (near the former Elk's Lodge on Bailey). The developer (Alliance Residential) is trying to capitalize off the popularity of West 7th & Museum Place, without anywhere near the design quality or respect for the neighborhood, or mixed use, that those developments provided. Unlike the Lancaster apartments, this will be completely outside walking distance to the West 7th mixed use area.

The West 7th area is being loaded up with MU-1 and MU-2 so-called "Transit Oriented Development" - without any actual additional transit being provided. The traffic you see now on the west side is going to get a lot worse once Lancaster North, Museum Place Phase 2 (...3, ....4... ), West 7th Phase 3, and now the St Donovan St apartments are all occupied in the next year or so. Right about the time the 7th street bridge is closed down.

[cberen1]

The West 7th area is being loaded up with MU-1 and MU-2 so-called "Transit Oriented Development" - without any actual additional transit being provided. The traffic you see now on the west side is going to get a lot worse once Lancaster North, Museum Place Phase 2 (...3, ....4... ), West 7th Phase 3, and now the St Donovan St apartments are all occupied in the next year or so. Right about the time the 7th street bridge is closed down.

This is the wrong thread for this, but I think the Upper Westside will benefit directly from everything going on down on West 7th. Lancaster between University and Summit and maybe all the way to Henderson will likely get a significant boost in traffic. I think the Lancaster/Summit intersection is going to be very stressed, but it might spur development from Lancaster over to the freeway on top of the hill.

Exciting times folks. Exciting times.

[rwolfe]

Curious if anybody knows exactly where Phoenix apts are going?

It is located in the half-block bounded by College Ave on the west, W Peter Smith on the south, and Lipscomb Ave on the east. The city (apparently) abandoned a small portion of Alston Ave for this project. I was by there a few weeks ago and utility work was already underway.

-Richard