Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

TEX Rail project


  • Please log in to reply
831 replies to this topic

#701 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 05:31 PM

I don't think Ron lives in Fort Worth.
 I'm glad y'all found each other to debate with. Keeps me from tilting at windmills.

I don’t live within the city limits of Fort Worth. I live within 40 miles of downtown Fort Worth.
A healthly debate is always good for everyone in the exercise of freedom of speech.

#702 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 19 October 2017 - 07:45 PM

 

I don't think Ron lives in Fort Worth.
 I'm glad y'all found each other to debate with. Keeps me from tilting at windmills.

I don’t live within the city limits of Fort Worth. I live within 40 miles of downtown Fort Worth.
A healthly debate is always good for everyone in the exercise of freedom of speech.

 

  Hardly anything healthy about trolling.



#703 PeopleAreStrange

PeopleAreStrange

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,341 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suburbia

Posted 19 October 2017 - 07:49 PM

DART light rail trains are not named after Dallas. Passenger rail lines are rarely named after the city (or cities) they operate in.

 

I'm fine with "TEX Rail" being the name of our new commuter line.


- Dylan


#704 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 19 October 2017 - 07:58 PM

DART light rail trains are not named after Dallas. Passenger rail lines are rarely named after the city (or cities) they operate in.

 

I'm fine with "TEX Rail" being the name of our new commuter line.

 

 If DART rail is not Dallas Area Rapid Transit then what is it?  DART is geo-specific to the Dallas Area; and stipulates so.

 

The acronym is such that you think it is Texas Rail; but it is not,  it is Tarrant Express Rail.

 

Tarrant Express is geo-specific to Tarrant County and environs; and it is right to stipulate so just as DART does.



#705 PeopleAreStrange

PeopleAreStrange

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,341 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suburbia

Posted 19 October 2017 - 08:07 PM

Perhaps we should promote the name "Tarrant Express Rail" more. But if people think "TEX" stands for Texas... well, we are in Texas. :)


- Dylan


#706 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:03 PM

Perhaps we should promote the name "Tarrant Express Rail" more. But if people think "TEX" stands for Texas... well, we are in Texas. :)

 

Exactly, that is my point!

 

Tarrant Express pinpoints its location; no confusion; no generality.

 

Somewhere, especially at each station should be inscribed the words "Tarrant Express - TEXRail".



#707 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts

Posted 20 October 2017 - 09:42 AM

It might be helpful if Tarrant Express Rail changed its logo from TE[red]X[/red]Rail to T[red]Ex[/red] Rail. Maybe that would be copying Fed[red]Ex[/red] to much for copyright infringement, but I believe more people will interpreted Ex as short for Express rather than EX.

Even changing TE[red]X[/red]to T[red]EX[/red] should make that clearer.

#708 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 20 October 2017 - 01:00 PM

It might be helpful if Tarrant Express Rail changed its logo from TE[red]X[/red]Rail to T[red]Ex[/red] Rail. Maybe that would be copying Fed[red]Ex[/red] to much for copyright infringement, but I believe more people will interpreted Ex as short for Express rather than EX.

Even changing TE[red]X[/red]to T[red]EX[/red] should make that clearer.

 

Agree.  Highlighting the commuter rail line as a Tarrant County Project pinpoints to the residents of Tarrant County that we have something to call our own; and pinpointing that ought not be controversial.

 

I will not insist that the TexRail logo be eliminated, just that Tarrant Express be added and prominently displayed.

 

Inscribing "Tarrant Express" along the side of the rail cars and visibly placing "Tarrant Express" inside of the rail cars will have a psychologically inducement and greater awareness upon the public about public transportation within the county; and I believe that it will have an unifying, beneficial affect upon the communities within  county.



#709 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,510 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 05 November 2017 - 10:43 PM

I'm surprised at the lack of TOD or any sort of master planning from around the Northside station. We're about a year out from opening, you'd think there'd be something by now? Even Berry St has tons of plans in place, and it isn't even known when that station will be completed. Obviously, there are developments going on in the Stockyards, but those aren't really that close to the station. According to NTCOG, 22% of the land within 1/2 mile of the station is vacant, and another 30% either industrial or low-density commercial. 



#710 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 06 November 2017 - 06:32 AM

I'm surprised at the lack of TOD or any sort of master planning from around the Northside station.....

 

 Not so surprising.  The Northside Station flaws were so evident from the beginning.  FWTA/DART goal to make the agency the owner/operator of the TOD superseded working with the Stockyards Developments.  Instead of being solely a transit agency, the agency also views itself as real estate developer. Tarrant Express' NS Station will be a sparsely used stop along the line.



#711 redblock

redblock

    Newcomer

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Location:dallas

Posted 06 November 2017 - 10:10 AM

FWTA is running a tour of TexRail progress using the Vintage Train.

They are posting pictures on the TEXRail website. Go to:

www.texrail.com


Then scroll down to the twitter feed.

#712 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,648 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 06 November 2017 - 11:24 AM

I saw over the weekend that more vehicles were being delivered at the end of last week.  I'll be up near Grapevine this afternoon with a few minutes to spare, so I might swing by and see if I can see any of the Stadler units.



#713 Keller Pirate

Keller Pirate

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 876 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Keller

Posted 06 November 2017 - 11:33 AM

Was in Grapevine last week. The TexRail equipment was just West of the depot. They had 3 units with a trap over the east end waiting for the fourth unit to be delivered and make a full set. Maybe they will take it for a spin after it is all hooked together.

#714 Not Sure

Not Sure

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 205 posts
  • Location:NRH

Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:55 PM

The most recent video update includes delivery footage of the railcar:

https://youtu.be/DpBoOjBH1wo

#715 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,648 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 06 November 2017 - 07:22 PM

Poorly lit pic of a vehicle in the Grapevine station.  All of the vehicles that I could see were lined up along the station on the east side of Main St. with the doors open.

 

IMG_1144-L.jpg



#716 Keller Pirate

Keller Pirate

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 876 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Keller

Posted 06 November 2017 - 09:48 PM

They must have received the fourth car to complete the first train. Being parked at the platform they may be planning to show off the interior to some VIP's

#717 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,510 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 06 November 2017 - 10:33 PM

They did exactly that today.

#718 Jeriat

Jeriat

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,115 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SWFW

Posted 06 November 2017 - 11:30 PM

Anyone know how long this will stay up?


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#719 redblock

redblock

    Newcomer

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Location:dallas

Posted 07 November 2017 - 08:31 AM

They must have received the fourth car to complete the first train. Being parked at the platform they may be planning to show off the interior to some VIP's

http://texrail.com


http://texrail.com now has a video of the ceremony on Nov. 6. FWTA used the tge Vintage Train to give VIPs a tour of the progress on TexRail.

Scroll down to the twitter feed.

#720 rriojas71

rriojas71

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 695 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 07 November 2017 - 09:43 AM

They must have received the fourth car to complete the first train. Being parked at the platform they may be planning to show off the interior to some VIP's

http://texrail.comhttp://texrail.com now has a video of the ceremony on Nov. 6. FWTA used the tge Vintage Train to give VIPs a tour of the progress on TexRail.
Scroll down to the twitter feed.

It is funny that the man in the twitter video said “as the train passes through Dallas-Fort Worth, on through North Richland Hills...etc.”
Whaaaat? I didn’t’t realize this train was going through Dallas? SMH

Also, how many trains will be needed for this project... I was thinking possibly 4 at the max but maybe all they need is 2.

#721 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,648 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 07 November 2017 - 09:57 AM

From one of the project updates:

"∙Purchase of eight Stadler DMU FLIRT vehicles Fast Light Innovative Regional Train"

Not sure if that's 8 trains consisting of 4 coaches each or 2 trains consisting of the 8 vehicles purchased.

#722 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts

Posted 07 November 2017 - 02:26 PM

From one of the project updates:"∙Purchase of eight Stadler DMU FLIRT vehicles Fast Light Innovative Regional Train"Not sure if that's 8 trains consisting of 4 coaches each or 2 trains consisting of the 8 vehicles purchased.

Its 8 trains with 4 passenger coaches and 1 diesel power van each.
Stadler has built FLIRT trains with up to 6 passenger coaches in a single train.
The Stadler designed Class 745 to be built for England will have 12 passenger coaches in a single train.
The TexRail trains will match the largest FLIRT trains built to date with a diesel power van.

#723 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,510 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 07 November 2017 - 02:29 PM

How many trains will be operating at once?

#724 panthercity

panthercity

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 100 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 07 November 2017 - 02:58 PM

I tried to get pictures of the TexRail trains on display this morning since classes were cancelled due to the shuttle bus driver losing it this morning, but they have fences up covering everything minus the tops of the trains. They have the same color scheme as the TRE or am I just blending them together in my mind? (same as the T busses) 



#725 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts

Posted 07 November 2017 - 04:40 PM

How many trains will be operating at once?


Probably close to what DCTA uses with similar distances and frequencies. So I expect 4 to 5 trains running during peak rush hours and 2 to 3 trains running the rest of the day - with one train in standby available to fill in for the occasional breakdowns. One train will be set aside for maintenance - even if maintenance set aside is not needed everyday there will be plenty of days it will.

#726 PeopleAreStrange

PeopleAreStrange

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,341 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suburbia

Posted 07 November 2017 - 09:58 PM

How many trains will be operating at once?

 

Until recently, I've been thinking only four trains at a time during rush hour (two trains in each direction an hour).

 

I've seen drawings where platforms look a little too short to accommodate two trains coupled together. However, I can't find documents showing platform lengths anymore.

 

There is a lot of space between train doors and the end of each train, so platforms may not need to be the full length of two trains.

 

Now, I'm thinking 8 trains at a time during rush hour. Seems like a waste to order 8 trains if you only need 4 or 5 trains at a time.


- Dylan


#727 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts

Posted 08 November 2017 - 08:35 AM

 

How many trains will be operating at once?

 

Until recently, I've been thinking only four trains at a time during rush hour (two trains in each direction an hour).

 

I've seen drawings where platforms look a little too short to accommodate two trains coupled together. However, I can't find documents showing platform lengths anymore.

 

There is a lot of space between train doors and the end of each train, so platforms may not need to be the full length of two trains.

 

Now, I'm thinking 8 trains at a time during rush hour. Seems like a waste to order 8 trains if you only need 4 or 5 trains at a time.

 

The TexRail Flirts will be 266 feet long, the platform lengths should be a minimum of 266 feet long.

These trains will require refueling during the day if ran continuously. What they will do is pull the trains after the morning peak, place other trains on during the day and pull them before the afternoon peak, place the earlier trains on for the afternoon peak, etc. That way they don't run up too many miles. Then they can refuel all of them overnight. There will be one additional train as a spare in case one breaks down and needs to be pulled for an entire day for corrective maintenance so the train schedules aren't affected. 

 

Eight trains in their equipment roster isn't too many. 

https://wwwstadlerra...tr0415en_us.pdf

 

I'm going to have to dig through the FEIS to find the exact station platform lengths. 

 

The maximum length of any station platform from the beginning was 450 feet, but they always planned to build smaller (anywhere from 250-300 feet) and leave room for expansion later. Initial planning assumed 8 inches above the top of the rail for the platform height, but that was always subject to change depending upon the vehicle bought. Since they have bought the vehicles, the platform height will be 2 feet above the top of the rail (24 inches). The standard low floor height of a Stadler Flirt is 22 inches, so the platform will be about 2 inches higher than the train's floor at the door. The only platform length I could find in the Appendix E drawings of the FEIS was for the DFW Station, which will be 318 feet long initially, with room to expand to 450 feet later.

 

Even at 450 feet, the platforms will be too short to fit two 4 car Flirts. Therefore I think you are correct stating the platforms will be too short to run two existing 4 car Flirts. From  what I can gather over the web, 6 car DMU Flirts is a possibly in the future.  Maybe adding 2 more cars to the existing fleet or by buying brand new 6 car Flirts will be the expansion method chosen. I'm pretty sure a 6 car DMU Flirt would fit alongside a 450 feet long platform. 

 

Here's how I determined that. 

A regular (EMU) 4 car Flirt is 246 feet long

A regular (EMU) 6 car Flirt is 349 feet long

Math determining length of the DMU van.

266 - 246 = 20 feet

Therefore, adding 20 feet to 349 feet = 369 feet

 

If a 6 car DMU Flirt would be underpowered, adding a second DMU van and another 20 feet to the train should solve that problem, the train would be 389 feet long in that case. Still far short of the 450 feet reserved for platform length in their plans.



#728 elpingüino

elpingüino

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 335 posts

Posted 11 November 2017 - 03:28 PM

I think I've mentioned this before, but I'd like to see TEXRail focus on getting the southern leg done in segments. With the northern half, the main focus was always DFW too Downtown. With the Southern leg, there's not really much going on beyond TCU. It's only about 4 miles from the Berry Station too T&P station, but the two stops both have prime opportunity for TOD and are already fairly dense and I believe could support decent ridership. Connecting 3 of the biggest urban neighborhoods would really make a lot of sense to me... I'd like to see it done ASAP. 

 

 

Electricron can weigh in if I'm wrong, but my guess is that the southern extension (here's the original route) will have to extend all the way to Summer Creek/Sycamore School because a terminus station needs extra space (for trains to turn around, train storage, etc.) and that is the only site with enough land. I doubt the TCU/Berry site would be big enough. 



#729 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,648 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 11 November 2017 - 06:31 PM

I'm not Electricon, but the TRE and TEX Rail trains don't turn around.  They have a cab on each end (more specifically a cab in the locomotive on the front end and a control cab on the last car for the TRE, the TEX Rail trains have a cab on each end).   And they'll go to the maintenance yard on the north side for storage.



#730 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts

Posted 11 November 2017 - 10:22 PM

Staging of trains on the southern terminus of TexRail will only need tail tracks. When they were discussing an overnight storage, they were still considering using TRE maintenance facility in Irving. I don’t think that need is as much with the TexRail maintenance facilities located in Fort Worth.

#731 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,648 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 24 November 2017 - 01:17 PM

Update on construction and the major upcoming milestones. Also has a short line mentioning that the December 2018 target date might be a little optimistic.

http://www.star-tele...e186304233.html

#732 A_Random_Username

A_Random_Username

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 25 November 2017 - 03:01 PM

Im excited that its moving along. 



#733 bclaridge

bclaridge

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:River Oaks area

Posted 25 November 2017 - 04:45 PM

I'm surprised at the lack of TOD or any sort of master planning from around the Northside station. We're about a year out from opening, you'd think there'd be something by now? Even Berry St has tons of plans in place, and it isn't even known when that station will be completed. Obviously, there are developments going on in the Stockyards, but those aren't really that close to the station. According to NTCOG, 22% of the land within 1/2 mile of the station is vacant, and another 30% either industrial or low-density commercial. 

 

I would also like to see the rail overpass going over 28th Street west of Decatur be widened to accommodate a road with wider lanes and bicycle/pedestrian access to points west of the railroad tracks (including the Stockyards).  That said, I do see some potential for redevelopment in the adjacent Diamond Hill neighborhood with a potential transit-oriented development centered on 28th and Decatur, along with commercial redevelopment along 28th between Decatur and 35W that could serve as a gateway to the Stockyards.  There is also an excellent view of the Downtown FW skyline from the vicinity of Diamond Hill Elementary School.  If the industrial properties between 28th and the river can be redeveloped, there would be even more potential in that area that would come with adding a riverside park and other amenities.

 

On a different note, what disappoints me about TEX Rail would be the lack of a station for the Colleyville area.  Unfortunately, the rail line passes northwest of the main developments in Colleyville that could actually utilize rail service, such as The Village at Colleyville (located at 26 and Main, and has the city hall), plus the shopping center at Hall-Johnson and 26.  A potential station at LD Lockett and Bransford (the closest the rail line gets to this area) would be way too far for pedestrians (and even some bicyclists) to connect with the developments along 26, plus several roads in that area lack sidewalks and bicycle trails.  Barring redevelopment, you would pretty much need bus access for anything in that area to be viable.  I also believe that many people in Colleyville were opposed to a station in their city.


TCU Class of 2017

 

I'm a psychology major, but I have a hobby interest in urban design and planning.


#734 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,648 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 25 November 2017 - 04:59 PM

The Colleyville station was planned for John McCain and 26. It was strictly a commuter station with no connection to any development. The city pulled out of the project and did everything short of filing a lawsuit to try to stop the entire line.

Edit: Oh my. Google led me to this website that almost made me want to gouge my eyes out. https://sites.google...site/stoptrain/

#735 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:43 PM

 

I'm surprised at the lack of TOD or any sort of master planning from around the Northside station. We're about a year out from opening, you'd think there'd be something by now? Even Berry St has tons of plans in place, and it isn't even known when that station will be completed. Obviously, there are developments going on in the Stockyards, but those aren't really that close to the station. According to NTCOG, 22% of the land within 1/2 mile of the station is vacant, and another 30% either industrial or low-density commercial. 

 

I would also like to see the rail overpass going over 28th Street west of Decatur be widened to accommodate a road with wider lanes and bicycle/pedestrian access to points west of the railroad tracks (including the Stockyards).  That said, I do see some potential for redevelopment in the adjacent Diamond Hill neighborhood with a potential transit-oriented development centered on 28th and Decatur, along with commercial redevelopment along 28th between Decatur and 35W that could serve as a gateway to the Stockyards.....

 

 Yes, an overpass would have been sure to generate some TOD activity; and would have created a merging of the Stockyard Development with the Tarrant Express development.  All parties would benefit.  The recently announced Swift Stockyard Hotel and other private investment would have a seamless connection to the Airport and to Downtown. The reality seems clear - FWTA and DART refuse to allow TOD along this project unless they have 100% control.  North Side Station will be a carbon copy of the Richland Hills Station, but with even less use.

 

Hopefully, there will a rethink of this idea and the City of Grapevine, Fort Worth and the Stockyards will better served by Tarrant Express to correct this missed opportunity.

 

We can only hope that eventually a transit line will be put in between Downtown and Stockyards/Meacham.



#736 bclaridge

bclaridge

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:River Oaks area

Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:12 AM

Yes, an overpass would have been sure to generate some TOD activity; and would have created a merging of the Stockyard Development with the Tarrant Express development.  All parties would benefit.  The recently announced Swift Stockyard Hotel and other private investment would have a seamless connection to the Airport and to Downtown. The reality seems clear - FWTA and DART refuse to allow TOD along this project unless they have 100% control.  North Side Station will be a carbon copy of the Richland Hills Station, but with even less use.

 

Hopefully, there will a rethink of this idea and the City of Grapevine, Fort Worth and the Stockyards will better served by Tarrant Express to correct this missed opportunity.

 

We can only hope that eventually a transit line will be put in between Downtown and Stockyards/Meacham.

 

 

I wonder if the city could put some of their mixed-use, urban village zoning in effect for the 28th and Decatur area (or preferably along 28th between the station and 35W), and if so, if property owners in the designated area might be able to "circumvent" some of the issues FWTA has with TOD that way.  Provided, though, that the city is not bound by a contract preventing them from doing that.

Otherwise I agree with renamerusk in that the North Side Station will be quite underutilized.  If you could get a bus line providing a direct connection between the station and the Stockyards, you might be able to get tourists to use the North Side Station.  But first, the area surrounding the station would need to look more attractive.


TCU Class of 2017

 

I'm a psychology major, but I have a hobby interest in urban design and planning.


#737 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts

Posted 27 November 2017 - 02:23 AM

 

Yes, an overpass would have been sure to generate some TOD activity; and would have created a merging of the Stockyard Development with the Tarrant Express development.  All parties would benefit.  The recently announced Swift Stockyard Hotel and other private investment would have a seamless connection to the Airport and to Downtown. The reality seems clear - FWTA and DART refuse to allow TOD along this project unless they have 100% control.  North Side Station will be a carbon copy of the Richland Hills Station, but with even less use.

 

Hopefully, there will a rethink of this idea and the City of Grapevine, Fort Worth and the Stockyards will better served by Tarrant Express to correct this missed opportunity.

 

We can only hope that eventually a transit line will be put in between Downtown and Stockyards/Meacham.

 

 

I wonder if the city could put some of their mixed-use, urban village zoning in effect for the 28th and Decatur area (or preferably along 28th between the station and 35W), and if so, if property owners in the designated area might be able to "circumvent" some of the issues FWTA has with TOD that way.  Provided, though, that the city is not bound by a contract preventing them from doing that.

Otherwise I agree with renamerusk in that the North Side Station will be quite underutilized.  If you could get a bus line providing a direct connection between the station and the Stockyards, you might be able to get tourists to use the North Side Station.  But first, the area surrounding the station would need to look more attractive.

TODs are rarely built and open for business by private investors before the "Transit" component is built and open for business. I have no idea what the zoning will be around every station. The FWTA has no power over local cities on how they zone properties or neighborhoods. I wish advocates stopped suggesting they do.  Take that issue to your local city hall. 

 

The property in downtown Fort Worth surrounding the T&P Station and the ITC aren't owned by the transit agency. The land surrounding the property in downtown Grapevine and at DFW Airport aren't owned by the transit agency either. Some land adjacent to other TexRail and TRE stations are - usually for their own buses to use  and to provide parking for their customers. Most business in Fort Worth also provide parking for their customers as well.  Even most mixed use properties provide enough parking to attract businesses and residents.  There's nothing unusual about having parking near train stations, even airports have parking. Do you really think DFW Airport could survive long without lots of parking? 

 

Where's the advocacy for having mixed use properties  on DFW Airport property immediately adjacent to the airport's passenger terminals instead of parking? Will it be too noisy? Well, trains can be noisy too. :)



#738 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,510 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 27 November 2017 - 02:47 AM

The property in downtown Fort Worth surrounding the T&P Station and the ITC aren't owned by the transit agency.

 

An exception. They also own the curvy lot where 7th splits into spur 280, and the block bounded by 8h, 9th, Calhoun & Jones.

 

I understand your point though, the city/s should be involved. The Berry St plans are sensible and something similar should have been worked out for the Northside station in the planning phases of TEXRail.



#739 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,648 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:28 PM

I make a regular run through Colleyville, Southlake, and Grapevine every Monday to take my daughter to an after school activity and I did it for the first time in several weeks today.  There's been a ton of progress on changing out ties and rail from Grapevine south into Colleyville.   I only saw one short stretch near Grapevine High School where wood ties remained.



#740 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,510 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:06 AM

NBC did a quick story on progress.

 

https://www.nbcdfw.c...-460640643.html



#741 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts

Posted 29 November 2017 - 11:07 PM

As for widening 28th Street discussed earlier, who maintains it? TexRail certainly doesn't, but does the City. County, or State maintain it? It is signed with SH 183, does that mean the TXDOT should/would be responsible for highway expansion?



#742 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 30 November 2017 - 03:36 PM

(1) .... Some land adjacent to other TexRail and TRE stations are - usually for their own buses to use  and to provide parking for their customers. Most business in Fort Worth also provide parking for their customers as well.  Even most mixed use properties provide enough parking to attract businesses and residents.  There's nothing unusual about having parking near train stations,...

 

(2)....even airports have parking. Do you really think DFW Airport could survive long without lots of parking? Where's the advocacy for having mixed use properties  on DFW Airport property immediately adjacent to the airport's passenger terminals instead of parking? Will it be too noisy? Well, trains can be noisy too. :)

 

 

Its hard to make sense of the airport example.

 

(2) All airports are mixed use properties (transportation/retailing/hospitality/food). Parking fees are an important revenue stream for an airport. ------ Not sure where you are trying to take us.

 

(1) There can be commuter stations designed as "K&R" Drop off/Pick up.  A major concern of the southern leg neighborhoods that Tarrant Express is planned to serve are the undesirable side effects expect from large surface lots with light and traffic congestion and criminal activity created by cars remaining the area during the day and into the night. I commented in the thread at that time that K&R stations might be a good compromise. 

 

As for existing commuter rail stations, TRE has at least one station to my thinking that is K&R - the Parkland/UTSW Medical Station where the only options the passenger has is to be dropped-off or picked-up.

 

 

Encouraging Kiss-and-Ride at Commuter Railroad Stations, Joshua Schank, School of Architecture, Planning, and Preservation, Columbia University, 400 Avery Hall, New York, NY 10027
 
Abstract....."Providing parking for commuter rail passengers can be difficult. Commuter railroads want to accommodate as many riders as possible at their suburban stations, but it is often impossible to provide enough parking to satisfy demand. Railroads would rather not charge a marginal fee for parking because this would likely decrease ridership. Local communities usually oppose large parking structures, and space for additional surface parking is often limited. To alleviate some of the parking demand, a possible strategy is to promote kiss-and-ride, or passenger drop-off. This method of station access requires no parking spaces, yet attracts additional riders. Although commuters accessing stations in this way usually choose to do so because of the particular characteristics of their commute, station and parking lot design might also influence their decision. Commuter rail stations in the New York City metropolitan area were studied to help determine the role of parking lot design and regulation in encouraging or discouraging the use of kiss-and-ride as a station access mode. Stations on the Metro-North Railroad and Long Island Rail Road were examined relative to their access and parking statistics and also by site visits. The demographics of the areas surrounding the stations were also considered. The results show that parking lot design and regulation may have an effect on kiss-and-ride usage. Parking lots with larger, more-accessible drop-off points tended to have greater kiss-and-ride percentages. Lots with illegal-parking problems, particularly prevalent on Long Island, tended to have lower kiss-and-ride percentages because it was often impossible to find a place to drop someone off".


#743 PeopleAreStrange

PeopleAreStrange

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,341 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suburbia

Posted 30 November 2017 - 07:22 PM

You can't get rid of parking at stations and expect everyone to get rides there instead. Many people would stop taking the train and drive to their destination.


- Dylan


#744 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,510 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 13 December 2017 - 05:02 PM

Peach Railyard overpass.

 

DQ9XatUUQAIeFqJ.jpg

 

@https://twitter.com/TheTFortWorth/status/941067515026903040



#745 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 13 December 2017 - 05:20 PM

I would also like to see the rail overpass going over 28th Street west of Decatur be widened to accommodate a road with wider lanes and bicycle/pedestrian access to points west of the railroad tracks (including the Stockyards).......

 

Peach Railyard overpass.

 

DQ9XatUUQAIeFqJ.jpg

 

 

 

What might have been had Tarrant Express "overpass" the tracks between 21st - 28th Streets to place the North Side Station...sad!



#746 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts

Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:42 AM

 

I would also like to see the rail overpass going over 28th Street west of Decatur be widened to accommodate a road with wider lanes and bicycle/pedestrian access to points west of the railroad tracks (including the Stockyards).......

 

Peach Railyard overpass.

 

DQ9XatUUQAIeFqJ.jpg

 

 

 

What might have been had Tarrant Express "overpass" the tracks between 21st - 28th Streets to place the North Side Station...sad!

 

It would have been much more expensive. To overpass the tracks between 21st and 28th streets would have meant crossing three freight railroad companies tracks twice more. It took FWTA 10 years to negotiate crossing UP tracks, and using DART tracks. I suppose it might have taken 30 years at that rate to negotiate crossing BNSF, UP, and FWWR tracks. 

As is. they have followed the old Cotton Belt tracks owned by DART, running on the east, then south side of the existing railroad corridor until past the FWWR yard in northeast Fort Worth. They still have had to build expensive overpasses just to build the shorter route. 



#747 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:17 AM

 

 

I would also like to see the rail overpass going over 28th Street west of Decatur be widened to accommodate a road with wider lanes and bicycle/pedestrian access to points west of the railroad tracks (including the Stockyards).......

 

Peach Railyard overpass.

 

DQ9XatUUQAIeFqJ.jpg

 

 

 

What might have been had Tarrant Express "overpass" the tracks between 21st - 28th Streets to place the North Side Station...sad!

 

(1) It would have been much more expensive. To overpass the tracks between 21st and 28th streets would have meant crossing three freight railroad companies tracks twice more. It took FWTA 10 years to negotiate crossing UP tracks, and using DART tracks. I suppose it might have taken 30 years at that rate to negotiate crossing BNSF, UP, and FWWR tracks. 

As is. they have followed the old Cotton Belt tracks owned by DART, running on the east, then south side of the existing railroad corridor until past the FWWR yard in northeast Fort Worth. They still have had to build expensive overpasses just to build the shorter route. 

 

 

Please, first thing - it would be helpful if when posting a comment that the post not be "pancaked" (as this one is and as I have done for illustration).  Thanks.

 

Getting to the comment that I would like to post a respone to - (1) It would have been much more expensive......

 

Stop saying that, please.; and to that I say, the benefit greatly outweigh the costs.

 

Tarrant Express could generate more activity for the Stockyards; could be a direct connection to the Stockyards from Grapevine/North Richland Hills ; and could eventually be a direct connection between the southern extension of Tarrant Express and the Stockyards. 

 

Too expensive is a relative term.  TRE constructed an overpass through Irving from Belt Line to Downtown Irving; DART has elevated tracks through Carrollton and over I35E; a tunnel beneath Central Expressway; and is planning to build a subway tunnel in Downtown Dallas. When was "too expensive" ever use as an excuse to reject the aforementioned projects?

 

DART/FWTA can successfully negotiate projects that it prefers regardless of time. If they were able to negotiate crossing tracks at Peach Yard, they certainly could have negotiated with the same train companies  the rights to cross tracks at 28th-21st streets. If they could not do this as they could do at Peach Yard and at the same,  then they are inept or either they have another agenda.  You should not make that argument again; it is hollow.

 

In this instance, it appears that DART/FWTA did not want to enhance further the Stockyards "ongoing development, but instead wants a TOD of its own; DART/FWTA should be honest about the reason. The North Side Station will be and is a challenging location.  The bottom line is that  DART/FWTA has forgone being a catalyst to the Stockyards to support their own internal goal.



#748 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,982 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:39 AM

That is going to be a real roller coaster of a ride north of downtown.


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#749 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts

Posted 16 December 2017 - 09:28 AM

Just look at that recent photo posted of the railroad viaduct, then count the number of posts and then calculate how long the viaduct is. yes, That far for a 25 to 30 feet elevation change so the TexRail trains will not interfere with freight railroad traffic on the UP Choctaw line at all. 30 feet vertically requires 3000 feet horizontally using a 1% grade, 1500 feet horizontally with a 2% grade. Then multiply by two to get the tracks back down to grade on the other side.

Don't you think TexRail would rather have crossed the UP Choctaw corridor at grade, that's how the GVVR using the Cotton Belt crosses it now? The steam train may cross the Choctaw corridor twice, possibly four times a day, but TexRail was going to cross it 50 to 60 times a day. So UP wouldn't allow TexRail crossing its tracks at grade, that's why TexRail is building that long viaduct. TexRail didn't want to wait 10 minutes for a freight train to pass through an at grade crossing either, another reason to go ahead and build that long viaduct. But even with the viaduct being built to take the TexRail trains over the UP tracks, UP asked and got Amtrak's Texas Eagle trains off their Ft. Worth corridor moved onto the TRE corridor - with all the expenses to make it happen paid for by TexRail. TexRail also had to get permission from the UP to cross another rail corridor with another viaduct. So UP really took them to the cleaners.

Imagine how much more TexRail would have had to pay to cross a third UP rail corridor along with BNSF and FWWR corridors just to get to the Stockyards directly? With the present routing, they don't have to cross the BNSF and FWWR owned corridors. at all That fact alone has saved TexRail scores and scores of millions of dollars.....

 

The main purpose is to get TexRail trains between downtown Fort Worth and DFW airport. TexRail has accomplished doing that, believe it or not, in the most economical way. That's what engineers and building contractors try to do all the time, because the most economical way usually means in the most profitable way. Going directly to the Stockyards has proven not to be the most economical way. 

 

The only economic way to build TexRail to the Stockyards was to continue it south through Forrest Park and bypassing downtown Fort Worth entirely. That routing failed it's primary mission of getting passengers to and from downtown Fort Worth, therefore during the planning process that routing was eliminated. 



#750 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 16 December 2017 - 01:08 PM

(1) Just look at that recent photo posted of the railroad viaduct, then count the number of posts and then calculate how long the viaduct is. yes, That far for a 25 to 30 feet elevation change so the TexRail trains will not interfere with freight railroad traffic on the UP Choctaw line at all. 30 feet vertically requires 3000 feet horizontally using a 1% grade, 1500 feet horizontally with a 2% grade. Then multiply by two to get the tracks back down to grade on the other side.....


(2) The main purpose is to get TexRail trains between downtown Fort Worth and DFW airport. TexRail has accomplished doing that, believe it or not, in the most economical way. That's what engineers and building contractors try to do all the time, because the most economical way usually means in the most profitable way. Going directly to the Stockyards has proven not to be the most economical way. .....The only economic way to build TexRail to the Stockyards was to continue it south through Forrest Park and bypassing downtown Fort Worth entirely. That routing failed it's primary mission of getting passengers to and from downtown Fort Worth, therefore during the planning process that routing was eliminated. 

 

(1) Not actually  having seen this overpass in person, I do think that it is possible from the optics taken in this photograph, the lay of trackage could be misleading.  I cannot imagine that the overpass is literally a "roller coaster" - that would be insane.

 

(2)  Yes. the main purpose is to get Tarrant Rail trains between Downtown and DFW Airport.  But, if you want to be economical, you would not build any stations between Downtown and DFW; and if you did, you would build stations that are viable and have a return for the project (Grapevine,NRH,Downtown); and you would certainly not have a station at 28th Street as it has no current or for seen economic potential.  On the other hand, a direct station for the Stockyards would pay for itself in short order as it is a legitimate destination for tourists and everyday people from Fort Worth that would be the third highest destination on the route.

 

As for Forest Park Blvd and Tarrant Express, you are making a nonsensical and strange point that is not supported by fact. We, in Fort Worth, are scratching our head with that explanation. Tarrant Express will route itself through Downtown via ITC and T&P Stations; and will not require a bypass of Downtown to continue southbound to Southwest Fort Worth.  If you were apart of the planning process, as your comments possibly suggest, then you were then and are now ignorant of the fact and the topography of Fort Worth as your argument. 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users