Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

TEX Rail project


  • Please log in to reply
707 replies to this topic

#651 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 24 September 2017 - 11:05 AM

 

Golly, if DART can not or will not run an express train to DFW airport over a real fully double track line, why do you expect FWTA to do so over a single track line?....

 

A think you may find the answer in your own words: "DART can not or will not run an express train to DFW" because it is and will be against it so that it can obtain its higher priority goals.



#652 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 24 September 2017 - 02:14 PM

Golly, if DART can not or will not run an express train to DFW airport over a real fully double track line, why do you expect FWTA to do so over a single track line?....

 
A think you may find the answer in your own words: "DART can not or will not run an express train to DFW" because it is and will be against it so that it can obtain its higher priority goals.
If having an express train is all that important, whats stopping you from granting FWTA an additional $Billion so they can do it properly, assuming itll cost that much to double track the entire line?
But heres an important point, if they miracously found that much money, the FWTA Board would rather spend that extra cash extending TexRail to the southwest before they would consider running express trains to DFW airport.
They have never promised express trains afterall!

#653 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 24 September 2017 - 03:05 PM

(1) If having an express train is all that important, whats stopping you from granting FWTA an additional $Billion so they can do it properly, assuming itll cost that much to double track the entire line?....(2) But heres an important point, if they miracously found that much money, the FWTA Board would rather spend that extra cash extending TexRail to the southwest before they would consider running express trains to DFW airport.....(3) They have never promised express trains afterall!

 

(1) Well, well. Having to prove a negative can be frustrating. Doubling trackage and the lack of it has been your idea that prevents non-stop service along the 27 mile route. You saw one large roadblock and concluded that there is no way to overcome it. It is a fixation; it is a sign of a deficient problem solving capacity. You compared commuter rail to light rail even though it is a false equivalency to think of them operating in the same way.

 

(2) Which rises another issue all together. FWTA has pursued a regional approach to the transportation needs of Fort Worth and it does not surprise some of us that it will prioritize connecting Fort Worth to Greater Dallas before addressing the internal transit needs (ie, light rail/street cars) of the City.   It was hoped that new thinking was be introduced to the public with the emergence recently of a grass root movement - TTA.; and it was equally disappointing that the grass root effort has been halted for the time being.

 

(3) Of course, FWTA never promised express trains; it would be out of character for it to think out side of the box or do something independently [DART]. When has FWTA had an original idea of its own that has proven to be successful, made sense or both? Afterall, the express trains or non-stop trains is a suggestion made by me; and with some luck, FWTA might come across the suggestion.

 

Someday, should there be a demand for a daily express train from Downtown to DFW Airport, it may be given some consideration. I believe that if you had a say so, the topic would never be allowed to surface.



#654 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 26 September 2017 - 01:06 AM

I've looked through the TexRail FEIS drawings once again, to identify where TexRail will be double tracking the corridor..

Here's the layout upon initiating service.

Double tracks at DFW station, double tracks at downtown Grapevine, double tracks at Smithfield Station, double tracks plus an additional freight only track at Northside (28th Street) Station, double tracks at ITC, although only one track will have a platform for TexRail cars, and double tracks at T&P Station. You will not be able to speed through the end stations, so that leaves just three stations where express trains can pass other trains, Northside at MP 15, Smithfield at MP 24, and downtown Grapevine at MP 33. FYI, DFW Airport is at MP 36 and T&P is at MP 0. Note these stations are around 9 miles apart, 10 to 11 minutes travel time apart.

They estimate 53 minutes runtime from end to end, and plan 30 minute headways during peak rush hours.

 

So let's assume a 7 am departure from DFW, it should get to Grapevine in 5 minutes (1 station in between) adds another minute or so, at let's say 7:05, it should get to Smithfield in another 11 minutes, let's say 7:16, it should get to Northside in another 13 minutes (2 stations in between adds 2 minutes), let's say 7:29, and get to T&P in 19 minutes (1 station in between adds 1 minute) at 7:48.  Not quite the 53 minutes projected, so i'm around 5 minutes off somewhere. It's easy to figure out approximate times in one direction, now we have to make it work in the opposite direction.

Working backwards from where the trains must meet, 19 minutes displaced at least. So the train leaves T&P at 7:10, arrives 19 minutes later at Northside at 7:29 (a perfect meet), 13 minutes later at Smithfield at 7:42, and 11 minutes later at Grapevine at 7:53 and 5 minutes later pulling into DFW at 7:58.

Now will trains running 30 minutes later in both directions met at the appropriate places at the correct times? Let's start northbound first, leaving T&P at 7:40 we crash around 7:44, unless we meet at ITC using the wrong size platform? If we're lucky we reach Northside at 7:59, Smithfield at 8:12, Grapevine at 8:23, and arriving DFW at 8:29

Now lets look at the 30 minute later southbound, leaving DFW at 7:30, reaching Grapevine at 7:35, reaching Smithfield at 7:46 (we're 4 minutes off at Smithfield (need a little tweaking of my projected times), reaching Northside at 7:59(timing perfect), and completes the run at T&P at 8:18. 

With just there 4 train running in both directions 30 minutes apart, we needed Northside, Smithfield, and ITC meets. we avoided needing to have a fourth meet because the trains run the distance in less than an hour, so you could say they're meeting again at DFW and T&P. The only passing siding we didn't need to use in my example was Grapevine. I could have tried forcing a meet there instead of at Northside, who know how that one would have turned out? 

I don't see how it is possible to run an express train skipping stations at a faster pace that wouldn't disrupt the timing of all the train meets. And we still have to account for the Grapevine Vintage Railroad, which per chance, will not be running on the corridor during peaks, but when the trains are running at 60 or 90 minute headways instead of 30. It too will have to have a pretty strict schedule for the meets to happen properly, ;)



#655 tamtagon

tamtagon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 231 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta - Dallas

Posted 26 September 2017 - 06:21 AM

I'm no engineer or any sort of train connoisseur, but just like travel on a plane, direct flights are more desirable than connecting flights (to me, at least) and the same clearly would seem true on a train. If airport-downtown and downtown-airport trips are the most frequent, the reward should be quicker travel with fewer stops along the way. From the end user point of view, quick service cannot be ignored.

 

I've always thought beyond the double track requirement, another slot would be necessary at the stations being skipped.... something like, while the local train is loading and unloading from a third track, a station embarkation track, the express train just passes the station....  



#656 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 26 September 2017 - 07:46 AM

I'm no engineer or any sort of train connoisseur, but just like travel on a plane, direct flights are more desirable than connecting flights (to me, at least) and the same clearly would seem true on a train. If airport-downtown and downtown-airport trips are the most frequent, the reward should be quicker travel with fewer stops along the way. From the end user point of view, quick service cannot be ignored.

 

I've always thought beyond the double track requirement, another slot would be necessary at the stations being skipped.... something like, while the local train is loading and unloading from a third track, a station embarkation track, the express train just passes the station....  

What you think it should be and what it really is - is often very different. 

It's been my experience in life that everything is usually built by the cheapest bidder using the cheapest labor and cheapest materials possible. Few buyers go out of their way to buy the most expensive item when a cheaper item does the job satisfactory. 

 

Not even every TexRail station will be double tracked with two platforms. DFW North, Ironsides, and Beach stations will only be single track with single platforms - per the FEIS. They're only double tracking just enough track and stations to support 30 minute headways. The meets are set to occur at specific locations by the scheduling of the trains. If one train is early, it must wait for the train arriving on time to clear the track ahead before it can proceed. There are no advantages arriving early. If one train is late, the other train must wait on it. Passengers waiting on trains sitting stationary at signals usually are not very happy.  Shucks, most drivers in their cars waiting on traffic signals usually aren't very happy too.



#657 tamtagon

tamtagon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 231 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta - Dallas

Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:31 AM

 

 

What you think it should be and what it really is - is often very different. 

 

haha I know that's right!

 

I represent the end user, not the engineer!   double track double platform - flyover bridge - whatever, I just want to take a non-stop train from the Water Gardens to the Airport!



#658 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 26 September 2017 - 02:14 PM

What you think it should be and what it really is - is often very different.
 
haha I know that's right!
 
I represent the end user, not the engineer!   double track double platform - flyover bridge - whatever, I just want to take a non-stop train from the Water Gardens to the Airport!

If you want non-stop, door-to-door services from public transportation, I suggest calling Uber or Yellow cabs.

#659 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 26 September 2017 - 02:24 PM

 

 

What you think it should be and what it really is - is often very different.
 
haha I know that's right!   I represent the end user, not the engineer!   double track double platform - flyover bridge - whatever, I just want to take a non-stop train from the Water Gardens to the Airport!

If you want non-stop, door-to-door services from public transportation, I suggest calling Uber or Yellow cabs.

 

 

Careful Electricron, you don't want to appear to be flailing. 



#660 Not Sure

Not Sure

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Location:NRH

Posted 26 September 2017 - 04:40 PM

 

 

 

 

What you think it should be and what it really is - is often very different.
 
haha I know that's right!
 
I represent the end user, not the engineer!   double track double platform - flyover bridge - whatever, I just want to take a non-stop train from the Water Gardens to the Airport!

If you want non-stop, door-to-door services from public transportation, I suggest calling Uber or Yellow cabs.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. Those of us along the line between downtown and the airport have no interest in an express. As is it configured with so few stops along the way there will be little difference between an express and the normal run anyway. The express only serves to pass up many of the people the route was designed to serve.

 

As a locomotive engineer who deals with signaling systems, running on the TRE, through downtown and so on, I agree with what Electricron has said about this express tangent, especially why it is apples and oranges to compare express trains elsewhere with some notion of express trains on the TexRail route.



#661 PeopleAreStrange

PeopleAreStrange

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,157 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suburbia

Posted 26 September 2017 - 07:07 PM

 

 

haha I know that's right!
 
I represent the end user, not the engineer!   double track double platform - flyover bridge - whatever, I just want to take a non-stop train from the Water Gardens to the Airport!

If you want non-stop, door-to-door services from public transportation, I suggest calling Uber or Yellow cabs.

 

 

Oops - Uber, Lyft, and Yellow cabs aren't necessarily nonstop. You've got traffic lights, potential freeway traffic, and airport toll booths.

 

It's not like TEX Rail passengers will be forced to disembark at every station.


- Dylan


#662 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 26 September 2017 - 08:14 PM

...... Those of us along the line between downtown and the airport have no interest in an express...... there will be little difference between an express and the normal run anyway. The express only serves to pass up many of the people the route was designed to serve.

 

I recall during the days that I worked as an agent for a legacy railroad, the crews also at that time did not have interest in clearing the line for the eastbound and westbound Amtrak trains that operated non-stop between North Fort Worth and Downtown.  Even so, the "green light"  routing was done and the crews resumed their jobs after the passing of the passenger trains.  The bottom line, it happened without much hulabaloo or without massive disruption to the work of the crews.  The disruption as I recall was typically a 20-30 minute stoppage to allow the passenger trains to pass through.

 

I have suggested that there be several non-stop trains between Downtown and DFW, but one early train eastbound to DFW before regular scheduled westbound trains start for Downtown.  The express or non-stop train would board in Downtown and would be a premium service offered once a day for airline passengers needing to board an early flight; travel time should be under 35 mins or less.  As soon as the non-stop train to DFW departed, regular local trains could began their eastbound trips, stopping along the way to board and disembark riders at every station on the route.

 

I am not suggesting multiple non-stop trains day long.



#663 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,327 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 26 September 2017 - 08:34 PM

That sounds like a great idea on the surface, but assuming TEX Rail starts regular service at 5:00am like the TRE, I have doubts about how much business could be generated on a 4:00am train to the airport.

#664 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:23 PM

It is about scheduling and time.  I do think that there is a major difference between TexRail and TRE. 

 

TRE is a commuter service connecting the Downtown Fort Worth and Downtown Dallas where trains are operating to bring commuters to two job centers.  TexRail operates between one job center and a destination - DFW - and where the commuter is taking a departure flight.  

 

TexRail is a commuter service connecting Downtown to DFW Airport.  The demand for service from DFW to Downtown need not be started as early as generally speaking more flights depart DFW in the early morning than arrive during this time creating the crush at DFW around departures; not arrivals. Airplanes are already at the gate for departure ready for boarding.  One way to understand the traffic flow at the airport is simply to observe the peak activity at the skycap areas of the airport; it is instructive. There are other examples of traffic flow such as the directional use of HOV lanes to demonstrate this principle. In transportation, traffic flow is studied and can the information is utilized to implement better use of resources.

 

If TexRail is capable or if it is willing to understand the flow of traffic; it can operate a daily non-stop train from Downtown to DFW.  If not, then it will as usual an agency without much of the innovative advancement to be an alternative to the automobile.



#665 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,944 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 27 September 2017 - 11:15 AM

I'm guessing actual operation of the line will be contracted to an experienced private operator like Herzog does for the TRE. 


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#666 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 08 October 2017 - 12:24 PM

Heres a transit agency that did express trains properly. Caltrains runs express trains called Baby Bullets from San Jose to San Francisco over 50 miles. The entire corridor is double track for frequent trains running in both directions, and Quad track at two locations so the express trains can pass the slow trains. Both type,of trains have excellent on time performance.
Read more about the Baby Bullets at https://en.m.wikiped...altrain_Express
The two sections of Quad tracks are each around 2 miles long. So 4 miles of the 50 miles long corridor is Quad track.
Whats the lesson to be learned, you need more than 10% of your line double tracked to actually run express trains.

Lets look at how much time was actually saved running an express train. Per
http://www.caltrain....er_1__2017.html

Look at trains 207 and 309(BB). Train 309 leaves 5 minutes later, then arrives 16 minutes earlier, saving a total of 21 minutes over 50 miles, a generous 26 seconds per mile. TexRail will only be 27 miles long, so at 26 seconds per mile an express train with similar per miles time savings saves just 11 minutes. I don't think getting to DFW airport 11 minutes faster when airline passengers actually go to the airport is worth twice the construction costs for building TexRail?

#667 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,327 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 08 October 2017 - 01:38 PM

I think rename gets that.  What he's proposing is running express trains outside of the operating schedule when no other trains are running - before or after regular operation begins or ends and during breaks in the schedule.



#668 Not Sure

Not Sure

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Location:NRH

Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:41 PM

What rename doesn't seem to get is that those of us along the route outside Fort Worth (NRH, Grapevine) aren't interested in paying our share for trains that pass us by.

#669 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 08 October 2017 - 10:26 PM

What rename doesn't seem to get is that those of us along the route outside Fort Worth (NRH, Grapevine) aren't interested in paying our share for trains that pass us by.

 

 Yes, I remember the outcries when DART Express Bus #205, 206,208,210,211,278,282,283 and the more publicized MAX (Arlington) routes were implemented and the DART community telling DART that it isn't interested in paying for a bus that passed it by.



#670 Not Sure

Not Sure

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Location:NRH

Posted 08 October 2017 - 11:38 PM

What rename doesn't seem to get is that those of us along the route outside Fort Worth (NRH, Grapevine) aren't interested in paying our share for trains that pass us by.

 
 Yes, I remember the outcries when DART Express Bus #205, 206,208,210,211,278,282,283 and the more publicized MAX (Arlington) routes were implemented and the DART riders telling DART that they aren't interested in paying for a bus that passed them by.

What does this have to with the price of tea in China? I've lived in NRH for the past 15 years. I've never lived in a DART member city. I care about public transit in my area. More to the point, as a citizen, I am paying in part for public transit in my area. This is the first and only route and transit option for NRH. Comparing it to any of the myriad services DART offers is disingenuous. I'm not the one here cherry picking things to get offended by.

Hasn't this express nonsense you're spouting run its course? I don't understand how the extra ten people - which I'm assuming is you and nine others - who would ride a train from downtown to the airport because it's an express train vs. a train you would not ride because it stops along the way (and picks up the people in Northside, Beach, NRH and Grapevine who might also like a ride to the airport at the same time) negate the needs of every other stakeholder along the route. It's been demonstrated upthread not only how much more expensive it is to serve these "elite riders" who would demand an express train but also how negligible the time savings would be that I cannot imagine it would be worth it to everyone getting the bill. How many times a week do you fly out of DFW? Is it always at the same time? If not will you call to get the express train rescheduled for the day?

I'm not the guy who says, "hey, these scraps are all we are going to get, let's not complain," but instead of trying to do better with this system right now, I'll be happy it's done at all in light of the long wait (I remember coming out of the hospital in Grapevine one day to tour the Colorado Railcar DMU that came through in 2003, back when this system was to be up and running a few short years later). I have lived in this particular town and in this particular part of town specifically to utilize this long-promised service when it finally becomes available. I've paid a lot of property and sales taxes along the way knowing this was coming. I'm ecstatic there is real tangible progress being made. Once it gets going and a real need is demonstrated for additional services I'm all for revisiting schedules and frequency. Throwing cold water on the project over a lack of express service is ridiculous, if I'm being kind here. I think it's a silly tangent to the discussion.

By the way, is Courier font supposed to represent sarcasm on this forum?
  • JBB likes this

#671 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,327 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:19 AM

Yes.



#672 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 09 October 2017 - 09:36 AM

#1 ....What does this have to with the price of tea in China? ....Comparing it to any of the myriad services DART offers is disingenuous. I'm not the one here cherry picking things to get offended by.

#2.....Hasn't this express nonsense you're spouting run its course?

#3.....I'm not the guy who says, "hey, these scraps are all we are going to get, let's not complain".... I've paid a lot of property and sales taxes along the way knowing this was coming.

#4....By the way, is Courier font supposed to represent sarcasm on this forum?

 

#1.  Ok. You are having a difficult time realizing that DART and other transit agencies do and can operate express service. News; they do.

 

#2.  What and who determines what ideas are nonsense?

 

#3. People who will never use TexRail are paying property and sales taxes in support of the project; even federal taxpayers from all 50 states;  what makes your grievance more salient than anyone of us or them?

 

#4. Yes. Sarcasm can sometime be useful to blunt unnecessarily harsh rhetoric.



#673 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 09 October 2017 - 09:46 AM

What rename doesn't seem to get is that those of us along the route outside Fort Worth (NRH, Grapevine) aren't interested in paying our share for trains that pass us by.

 
 Yes, I remember the outcries when DART Express Bus #205, 206,208,210,211,278,282,283 and the more publicized MAX (Arlington) routes were implemented and the DART community telling DART that it isn't interested in paying for a bus that passed it by.

All those express bus services are done on streets with “multiple”lanes, you know where there are passing lanes for buses to pass one another and other traffic. Now imagine providing the same express service on a street with two way traffic with just “ONE” lane! Wouldn’t you need passing lanes added to street so the buses could actually pass each other? No amount of scheduling of the buses can overcome the lack of lanes........

#674 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 09 October 2017 - 09:59 AM

 

 

What rename doesn't seem to get is that those of us along the route outside Fort Worth (NRH, Grapevine) aren't interested in paying our share for trains that pass us by.

 
 Yes, I remember the outcries when DART Express Bus #205, 206,208,210,211,278,282,283 and the more publicized MAX (Arlington) routes were implemented and the DART community telling DART that it isn't interested in paying for a bus that passed it by.

All those express bus services are done on streets with “multiple”lanes, you know where there are passing lanes for buses to pass one another and other traffic. Now imagine providing the same express service on a street with two way traffic with just “ONE” lane! Wouldn’t you need passing lanes added to street so the buses could actually pass each other? No amount of scheduling of the buses can overcome the lack of lanes........

 

 

And all those routes pass by someone who has paid taxes.

 

First the objection was that there was not enough trackage Then the objection was that an express interferes with the work of other trains and the crews just are not interested in being bothered.   Now the objection is that one's taxes are being used for something that does not benefit you or somehow express service denies you service.  What next?



#675 A_Random_Username

A_Random_Username

    Newcomer

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:25 PM

I would love to have better transit options. subways, better bus routes/times (thinking 24/7), better rail options. I would support developments that increased the options and/or improve existing plans. face it, our transit system sucks. we can continue letting it suck as is, and feeling the increase of vehicle traffic, and with that traffic accidents, OR, we can improve it, in turn give something to the developers to bring them in. if this goes through and it does happen to reach down Hemphill towards Seminary, more developers would want to come in and build in town. Id love to see Ft worth as something other than Dallas' little brother, and until we can get the transit system fixed, and developers coming in, we will never be a separate city.



#676 redblock

redblock

    Newcomer

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Location:dallas

Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:59 AM

Here is Stadler's report on the Railway Gazette Internatonal's Facebook page about the TexRail display at the APTA EXPO in Atlanta.

http://www.railwayga...-flirt-dmu.html

The EXPO is now over so the equipment could arrive in Fort Worth next week. Is the maintenance facility ready to keep it secure?

#677 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:48 AM

It’s only half a train, they will have to piece a whole train together to test it.
Where do they plan to test the prototype train, in Texas or Utah?
Where ever that location is, that’s where they should send this half of a train.

Anyways, if the TexRail maintenance facility isn’t ready, they could send this half the train to the DCTA or TRE maintenance facility for storage until it is ready.

#678 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:27 PM

It would be nice to have a whole train in Fort Worth to display before the Fat Stock Show and Rodeo crowds this winter.

#679 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:33 PM

I've asked and they don't have a hard date on when they'll have one here but that would be a great way to build excitement!

#680 PeopleAreStrange

PeopleAreStrange

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,157 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suburbia

Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:00 PM

Here are a few pictures from (presumably) Utah: http://railcolornews...-s-flirt-train/

 

Looks really nice, though it does seem to have those awkward bulky restrooms.


- Dylan


#681 Keller Pirate

Keller Pirate

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 868 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Keller

Posted 13 October 2017 - 08:08 AM

Interesting that Ballard said he is excited to bring these cars to Fort Worth and Dallas.

#682 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 13 October 2017 - 12:52 PM

Interesting that Ballard said he is excited to bring these cars to Fort Worth and Dallas.

 

Of course he would say something like that; after all, FWTA is defacto agency to DART.



#683 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 13 October 2017 - 04:55 PM

 Of course he would say something like that; after all, FWTA is defacto agency to DART.


Is it? really? Why do you think it is?

#684 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 14 October 2017 - 02:04 PM

 

 Of course he would say something like that; after all, FWTA is defacto agency to DART.


Is it? really? Why do you think it is?

 

Three things:

 

1. A reprint is not currently available from the FWST about the hire of Mr. Bullard (September 2013)  and it would press me to reproduce it at this time but a quote from it read-

 

"and any hiring by FWTA would come under the scrutiny of DART" 

 

2. Mr. Bullard came from Tennessee to specifically lead the implementation of TEXRail after frustrations boiled over from a lack of progress on the project coming mainly from Fort Worth but frustrations being expressed from DART.  DART required that its preferred trains be selected for use on the Cotton Belt Line. 

 

3. The Cotton Belt Line is owned by DART and leased to FWTA.

 

Mr. Bullard's comments about Fort Worth and Dallas are merely the acknowledgement of the current reality.

 

http://www.texrail.c...7-50e874f0-8af3



#685 johnfwd

johnfwd

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,850 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:southwest
  • Interests:Running, bicycling, bowling, nightclub life, science, technology.

Posted 17 October 2017 - 09:31 AM

The train is modern looking and will be a great service to residents of Fort Worth.



#686 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 17 October 2017 - 09:33 AM

My exceedingly minor complaint is that the colorful paint should have come forward more on the side near the front (quarter panel?) area, as right now there's just a bunch of grey and it's kinda bland.


  • JBB likes this

#687 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,327 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 17 October 2017 - 10:31 AM

There's a lot of room for a colorful, more prominent logo in that big gray area near the cab.

#688 redblock

redblock

    Newcomer

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Location:dallas

Posted 17 October 2017 - 08:16 PM

I went to a TRE advisory committee meeting today and they included a progress report on the TEXRail project. Two important points:

1. The maintenance facility and the TEXRail trackage in that area are not ready to receive equipment yet, but will be ready by the end of the year.

2. The FLIRT equipment displayed in Atlanta is being delivered to Grapevine and is being set up in the Vintage Train area. The power unit was delivered yesterday, Monday, 10/16, and the cab/passenger and passenger sections should arrive tomorrow. In the next week or so, the other two sections will arrive from Utah to form a complete train. FWTA will hold an open house on Nov. 6 in Grapevine to show off the new train.

#689 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 17 October 2017 - 08:24 PM

Oh man that's exciting! Can't wait to check it out. Ty for update.

#690 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,327 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 17 October 2017 - 08:36 PM

Thanks for the update. I'll be over that way next Monday. I'll try to drive by and see if I can see it. I'm off work in the 6th so I'll try to go to the open house.

#691 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 17 October 2017 - 09:43 PM

Keep us informed if the November 6 date remains on track. ;)

 

As for liveries, here's what other transit agencies have done on the latest Flirt 3 units.....

It is fun to compare......... ;)

DB

Stadler_Flirt_3_1428_501.jpg

Mannheim

800px-Süwex_Flirt_Mannheim_Hbf.JPG

Hertogenbosch

maxresdefault.jpg

Lodzka Kolej Aglomeracyjna

FLIRT3_dla_PKP_IC_fot_Stadler.jpg

Lodz

first-od-flirt-starts-test-runs_b.jpg

Rhein-IJssel Express

1343px-Stadler_Flirt_3_Abellio.jpg

BeNEX

Stadler_FLIRT3_dla_BeNEX,_Stadler_Polska,_2014-08-21_(Muri_WK14).jpg

Moskve

15249958203_29827bffa0_b.jpg

Hagen-Eckessey

1600px-Abellio_Flirt_3_in_Hagen-Eckesey,_2016.JPG

Newag dia PKP Intercity

FLIRT3_dla_PKP_IC_fot_Stadler.jpg

Berlin

der-dreiteilige-stadler-flirt-3-534024.jpg

 

Well, that's at least 10 different liveries, few if any used the opportunity to do anything fancy behind the cab where the main electrical cabinets are located. 

 

Maybe I'm thinking the TexRail livery isn't as bad as some of these. Maybe beauty is in the eye of the beholder? 

From a lazy point of view, a gray (silver) exterior paint job is the easiest to keep clean, or looks clean the longest between washes. 



#692 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 18 October 2017 - 01:38 PM

We have a train in Tarrant County!

 

cniChia.jpg

 

WOm0lh5.jpg



#693 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 18 October 2017 - 03:23 PM

All in all, I am quite satisfied with the commuter rail line.  I wished that the name was more specific to Fort Worth and or Tarrant County; TexRail is very non-specific and does not sufficiently attach the City or County to the rail line.  I suppose eventually when the commuter rail line is extended out to McKinney, had something to do with it being branded TexRail.  I recall that doing the contest to name the commuter rail line, I was disappointed with the winning choice.



#694 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 18 October 2017 - 05:49 PM

How important is a brand, or name for a commuter railroad line?
Almost everyone in a few years, especially after more lines are built, will call it the line to Grapevine.
Most of us already call the A Train the line or train to Denton.
Golly, the destination sign above the drivers window, or the electronic sign on the side of the train cars, read so.

How many of us call the A Train that, or do most of us call the service the DCTA train?
Do we even distinguish the DART light rail trains from their buses and vans? Dont we just call them DART?

After a few years, most of us will just call it the Fort Worth Train or the Grapevine Train.

#695 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 18 October 2017 - 08:47 PM

How important is a brand, or name for a commuter railroad line?...

 

It is important if one has civic pride; if you don't have much, then it isn't important to you.



#696 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 08:29 AM

 

How important is a brand, or name for a commuter railroad line?...

 

It is important if one has civic pride; if you don't have much, then it isn't important to you.

 

As I wrote before, most trains and most railroad companies are/were called by their final destinations. 

Texas and Pacific, Missouri Pacific, Missouri - Kansas -Texas, Southern Pacific, St. Louis and Southwestern, St. Louis and San Francisco, Atkinson - Topeka - and Santa Fe, Union Pacific, Northern Pacific, Rock Island, etc. 

 

Would you be happy with Fort Worth Rail, Fort Worth Railroad, Fort Worth Line, etc? Keep in mind that there is a railroad company already called the Fort Worth and Western Railroad which FWTA hopes to extend the TexRail trains onto in the future. How about the Grapevine Rail, Grapevine Railroad, Grapevine Line, etc? Keep in mind that there is a railroad company already called the Grapevine Vintage Railroad which will share the TexRail tracks as far as Tower 60. 

 

How about nicknames? How about the Cow Town train? How about the Fat Show train? 

How about stealing another city's slogan? The Spirit of Fort Worth? Pride of Fort Worth? 

How about the major river? The Trinity River Dinky, because Express is already in use?

 

Why don't you suggest another name showing civic pride, maybe it will catch on?



#697 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 19 October 2017 - 12:12 PM

 

 

How important is a brand, or name for a commuter railroad line?...

 

It is important if one has civic pride; if you don't have much, then it isn't important to you.


Why don't you suggest another name showing civic pride, maybe it will catch on?

 

 

How about calling it by its official name - Tarrant Express Rail.  I think we see and read TEx and automatically say or think Texas Express Rail.

 

 And yes as civic pride goes, Tarrant County actually means more to me as the exacting place of home than Texas in general. It is largely a reason that Dallas really doesn't do much for me.



#698 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 02:22 PM

How about calling it by its official name - Tarrant Express Rail.  I think we see and read TEx and automatically say or think Texas Express Rail.
 
 And yes as civic pride goes, Tarrant County actually means more to me as the exacting place of home than Texas in general. It is largely a reason that Dallas really doesn't do much for me.

What would you think about TREX? TR short for Tarrant, EX short for Express. Drop the R in TR you'll have just T, combine that with EX, you'll end up with TEX. TEX Rail - sounds great to me. Isnt that what they are using?
Just correct everyone using TexRail to use TEXRail instead?

Or we can paint the trains Barney purple or Sinclair green, and just call it T-REX instead. We could even ask some artist to draw a new dinosaur cartoon character to be the advertizing mascot.

#699 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,686 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 19 October 2017 - 02:44 PM

 

How about calling it by its official name - Tarrant Express Rail.  I think we see and read TEx and automatically say or think Texas Express Rail.
 
 And yes as civic pride goes, Tarrant County actually means more to me as the exacting place of home than Texas in general. It is largely a reason that Dallas really doesn't do much for me.

What would you think about TREX? TR short for Tarrant, EX short for Express. Drop the R in TR you'll have just T, combine that with EX, you'll end up with TEX. TEX Rail - sounds great to me. Isnt that what they are using?
Just correct everyone using TexRail to use TEXRail instead?

Or we can paint the trains Barney purple or Sinclair green, and just call it T-REX instead. We could even ask some artist to draw a new dinosaur cartoon character to be the advertizing mascot.

 

 I think that the proper name is Tarrant Express Rail and that name actually ties to Fort Worth and Tarrant County. It was inevitable that the acronym would become widely used, but that still does not alter the fact that it still Tarrant Express and not Texas Express Rail.

 

You lack civic pride or it is evident that you don't understand it;  that is your way; it does not have to be that way for people who do.

 

I will as often as I can, call the commuter rail by its proper name: Tarrant Express Rail no matter what the color of the livery; as long as it isn't yellow.



#700 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,944 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 19 October 2017 - 02:49 PM

I don't think Ron lives in Fort Worth.

 

I'm glad y'all found each other to debate with. Keeps me from tilting at windmills.


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users