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Texas & Pacific Warehouse


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#1 Ron Payne

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 11:43 AM

I did some snooping around the T&P warehouse yesterday, and came away with a whole mess of pictures!

Brick and tile work still looking good after 80+ years!
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Haunted? Maybe not, but certainly creepy!
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Recent rains or is it always like this?
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Some serious support columns
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Elevator shafts sans elevators
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Was there a brick road behind this building, or was this just part of the parking lot?
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#2 John T Roberts

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 01:25 PM

Ron, there has been water in the basement since at least the year of 2000. I would suspect that the water has been down there since the first renovation project started. That was back in the 1980's, I think. At that time, the HVAC equipment was removed from the roof and one of the elevator penthouses had the masonry removed from its perimeter. This left a gigantic hole at roof level where water could just pour in.

At the rear of the building, the parking lot was originally paved in brick.

#3 Ron Payne

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:12 PM

Thanks for the info John - it seemed like an odd place for a street, but I thought that it could have been a pre-I30 road paved in brick like Camp Bowie. I also saw a neon "Open" sign over one of the doors facing Lancaster, so I assume there was some sort of business in there? I'm picturing a nightclub of some sort, which could explain the creepy paintings on the walls!

I'd still love to get in there and check out some of the upper floors, but it's locked up pretty tight...
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#4 renamerusk

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:24 PM

Ron, there has been water in the basement since at least the year of 2000. I would suspect that the water has been down there since the first renovation project started. That was back in the 1980's, I think. At that time, the HVAC equipment was removed from the roof and one of the elevator penthouses had the masonry removed from its perimeter. This left a gigantic hole at roof level where water could just pour in.

At the rear of the building, the parking lot was originally paved in brick.


John - I think of you as someone with considerable knowledge about the preservation or maintenance of prominent historical sites. How can it be that our city is allowing such negligence at this iconic building? Not only has this become an eyesore, but a public health hazard too. Until Ron posted his images, I had no idea that standing water covered the floor of the building and that it had become a breeding ground for disease and contamination. If this was my home, it would be made to be brought up to code or condemned! Surely even the purest property rights advocates must be as appalled as I am at viewing these deplorable images. If only our local newspaper would publish Ron's images or images of their own, I feel confident that the public would be outraged and stunned by the current interior images of the T&P Warehouse.

I am sure the owner is lawyer-ed up, but code enforcement does have a duty here. My wish is that some clever "imminent domain" clause can be employed to save this building; perhaps re-purpose it as a educational campus such as a TCU/Texas Wesleyan law school and a public records and property depository for the city, county and state.

Keep Fort Worth folksy

#5 Volare

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:44 PM

Back in the 80s some of that building was used as a haunted house. Later it was used for paintball. I'm guessing some of the scary artwork is related to that.

#6 renamerusk

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:51 PM

Back in the 80s some of that building was used as a haunted house. Later it was used for paintball. I'm guessing some of the scary artwork is related to that.


Notwithstanding the paintball and haunted house use that I thought was a sad use that showed a lack of sensitivity to a grand and important place of our city's history, my greater concerns come from an earlier reply:

" At that time, the HVAC equipment was removed from the roof and one of the elevator penthouses had the masonry removed from its perimeter. This left a gigantic hole at roof level where water could just pour in". - John T. Roberts

Would the public had allowed the historic courthouse to become a paintball/haunted house for a cheap profits?

#7 RD Milhollin

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:37 PM

The owner of that building has obviously shed any reasonable sort of responsibility for the structure. Is there any way the city can place a lien on the property to eliminate the public danger / attractive nuisance and structural damage? Surely the building is not currently being insured, I don't think a carrier would allow open holes in the roof. This owner needs to be relieved of the responsibility of maintaining the building.

#8 JBB

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:14 PM

I know this isn't a popular opinion here, but a building of this size needs to stay on the tax rolls. Something should be done about the neglect, but I suspect the fact that the current owner is keeping up with the property taxes makes it unlikely for the city to seize it.

#9 John T Roberts

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:31 PM

Unfortunately, I don't know all of the details about what has transpired between the owner and the city. I would imagine that Code Enforcement has held off because of the promise to redevelop the building. I agree with all of you that the building is a public health hazard, but I also don't want to see it demolished. The building is a Highly Significant and Endangered Landmark in the City of Fort Worth. I would definitely consider this as a case of demolition by neglect, since the water has been in the basement for more than 10 years. The latest information that I have on the redevelopment of the building is that it is on hold until the City completes the Lamar/Hemphill Street connection that would run on the west side of the building.

#10 Volare

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 04:24 PM

Would the public had allowed the historic courthouse to become a paintball/haunted house for a cheap profits?


This is a citizen population that stands by as we endure the worst drought in a century yet watches as water is drained from our rivers and lakes and injected miles underground- where it will never return to the water cycle. Hey as long as those royalty checks keep coming, right?

#11 Brian Luenser

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 06:28 PM

If your concern is pollution, you should love natural gas. Way better than either filthy coal (Used by far, more than any other source of electrical generation) or terrorists oil. Natural gas is clean and American. And as a side benefit has kept Texas from going under. Particularly Fort Worth. In the near term, Natural gas is best, no doubt.

Always amazes me that natural gas burns so clean that my stove, oven and natural gas fireplace do not need a chimney. That's clean.
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#12 Volare

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:24 AM

No, my concern is not pollution at all, since as you have pointed out, NG is much cleaner. My concern is that for the first time ever in human history we are permanently removing water from the water cycle that can never be recovered, to the tune of 1-2 million gallons per frack. If you waste water on your lawn or washing your car it will evaporate into the sky to one day fall as rain again, etc. With fracking it is gone forever.

#13 jefffwd

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 02:47 PM

The building is an eyesore and way beyond rehab... it needs to be razed before somone falls down one of those elevator shafts. It is sad but imagine a nice 60-story glass office tower in its space. (Oh my God I think I have to move to Dallas after a comment like that :smwink: )

#14 John T Roberts

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:16 PM

I disagree with you, Jeff. Apparently, the building still has good "bones" and it just needs to be mothballed properly until redevelopment can occur. This is one of the few buildings in the city that has been designated a Highly Significant Endangered Landmark. It would be a shame to demolish such an important part of the city's architectural heritage and history just because it has become unsightly in its appearance or the owner is not taking good care of it.

Even though the old Montgomery Ward Retail Store and Warehouse wasn't restored to my personal preferences, many of you on the forum comment on how much you like the old building now that it has been rehabilitated. The developer could have easily demolished it because it was designated only Demolition Delay (wait 180 days) and it would have been easier to build more suburban buildings on the site like the Super Target.

Also, I'm not so sure that this shouldn't be merged in with the main topic of the Texas & Pacific Warehouse because we are now discussing more than just the photographs.

#15 Joshw

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 09:13 AM

I'd honestly love see the T&P Warehouse be rebuilt into some stores and shopping type places. With the Tandy Center gone, what reason do people have to come downtown, except at night? People need to come to downtown for more than Nightlife. I remember when we used to spend a whole saturday at the Tandy Center, eating, shopping, and seeing a movie. Instead of the money going out of downtown, it was staying in one place.

BTW, great pictures! I need to go snoop around there and see some of that. I don't do haunted houses so I never went to it when it was the haunted house.

#16 Brian Luenser

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 09:36 AM

Jeff, I agree with Mr. Roberts. A grand building that looks like crap in its current state. I do think it is too structurally sound to raze. I speculate, but seems like even in this condition, it would be cheaper to fix then to build an new structure of that size. I still think this building has more cubic feet than any building in town. (Now I am really speculating) A massive building for sure. For the right price, it would make a great manufacturing facility.

I came close to buying the Supreme Golf building South of downtown in 2006 for water filter manufacturing. Was literally one day late. The owner had "Verbally, but just as good as iron clad" promised the Museum of History the space to store their stuff for the next few years for their remodel. The T&P building is too big for us but I do think manufacturing is a good candidate for the building.
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#17 renamerusk

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 12:36 PM

... A massive building for sure. For the right price, it would make a great manufacturing facility.


Seems like a very sensible idea...throw in some tax abatement incentives...and in-source hundreds of central city jobs.

Keep Fort Worth folksy

#18 Keller Pirate

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 06:24 PM

I have pondered what would be a reasonable use for this building, but never really could come up with anything. Since we are only talking here and not actually putting our money where our keyboards are, how about turning it into a personal storage building? Remodeling expenses would probably be less that other uses and it was a warehouse. I have seen old warehouses in other central cities converted or saved by this kind of use.

#19 Brian Luenser

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 08:10 PM

Storage is an excellent idea in my opinion. The interior looks could be pretty unimportant. You could just finish floors as necessary. Do the second floor. When it is leased out, do the third floor. I do think with all the apartments and condos in use and coming on line, storage is likely an increasing need.
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#20 360texas

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 10:01 AM

Opps you are correct ... the TP Station and Warehouse are two separate buildings. My error

Did find this almost 1 year old article FWST Sandra Baker. Wonder what is new ?


http://www.ongo.com/...ehouse-at-issue

And this one July 2011
http://www.ongo.com/...other-extension

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#21 Phil Phillips

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 10:19 AM

The T&P station and the T&P warehouse are different buildings. TAD sends the tax bill on the warehouse to Cleopatra Investments Ltd. in Dallas.

#22 Brian Luenser

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 10:57 AM

I think that is correct Phil. It is owned by a Lady in Dallas. I am guessing for 10 years now.
This is the Lady that keeps trying to convince the Fort Worth leaders that she is about to convert to apartments and needs more time on the abatement time limit or something like that from the city.

My good source at the City says "It ain't ever going to happen with her."
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#23 John T Roberts

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:50 PM

The T&P Warehouse and the T&P Railway Terminal are two separate buildings under two separate ownerships. If you go to the main site of http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com and click on "Downtown", you will see all of the major buildings listed. Follow the links to both buildings and you can read more about them.

The T&P Warehouse has been owned by Cleopatra Investments for more than 10 years, now. She bought the property in late 1998.

#24 360texas

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:09 PM

Sorry for the duplication... yes they are two separate buildings that happen to look similar and I think be on the same street.

John said:
"Apparently, the building still has good "bones" and it just needs to be mothballed properly until redevelopment can occur. This is one of the few buildings in the city that has been designated a Highly Significant Endangered Landmark. It would be a shame to demolish such an important part of the city's architectural heritage and history just because it has become unsightly in its appearance or the owner is not taking good care of it."

Seems the Fort Worth City Code Compliance should take up the slack.. do their job... make the owner take care of their property !

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#25 ron4Life

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 10:32 AM

How about turning this historic masterpiece to a motion picture complex... prop sets, editing room, etc.

#26 dangr.dave

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:02 PM

Some of my favorite T&P Warehouse photos that I've taken:

Posted Image
The T&P Warehouse and the Omni Hotel, Fort Worth by dangr.dave, on Flickr

Posted Image
I've found a reason for me to change who I used to be by dangr.dave, on Flickr

#27 johnfwd

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 03:41 PM

Unfortunately, I don't know all of the details about what has transpired between the owner and the city. I would imagine that Code Enforcement has held off because of the promise to redevelop the building. I agree with all of you that the building is a public health hazard, but I also don't want to see it demolished. The building is a Highly Significant and Endangered Landmark in the City of Fort Worth. I would definitely consider this as a case of demolition by neglect, since the water has been in the basement for more than 10 years. The latest information that I have on the redevelopment of the building is that it is on hold until the City completes the Lamar/Hemphill Street connection that would run on the west side of the building.

Another year has gone by and nothing done to resolve Fort Worth's chronic embarrassment.  Now it's actually become the site for photo shoots...shots of cute little girls sitting on one of the decrepit porch steps or teen-age girls starring in some advertisement using the warehouse as a backdrop.  If this building is a public hazard, shouldn't it be cordoned off to avoid risk liability issues for the owner?  Did the city complete the street connection and, if so, is there some further obstacle to re-development?



#28 dangr.dave

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:48 PM

I would like to buy the building and make America's longest bowling alley on one of the floors.



#29 Austin55

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:40 PM

Another year has gone by and nothing done to resolve Fort Worth's chronic embarrassment.  Now it's actually become the site for photo shoots...shots of cute little girls sitting on one of the decrepit porch steps or teen-age girls starring in some advertisement using the warehouse as a backdrop.  If this building is a public hazard, shouldn't it be cordoned off to avoid risk liability issues for the owner?  Did the city complete the street connection and, if so, is there some further obstacle to re-development?

 

Don't forget teenage boy racers taking pictures of their car, http://www.flickr.co...uvr/8391115428/

 

 

Hey  Dave, why stop there?

Floor 1-Go cart track

Floor 2-Worlds largest McDonalds playplace

Floor 3-Giant bowling lanes

Floor4-Lasertag and paintball

etc etc.



#30 dangr.dave

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:23 PM

I like your style, Austin!  I am especially interested in the go-cart track idea.  I guess one of the floors could also be the world's largest skating rink.  And, on the roof, since it appears to contain good soil for tree growth, I'm thinking Fort Worth should create the world's largest roof-top tree farm.



#31 Doohickie

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:55 AM


Another year has gone by and nothing done to resolve Fort Worth's chronic embarrassment. Now it's actually become the site for photo shoots...shots of cute little girls sitting on one of the decrepit porch steps or teen-age girls starring in some advertisement using the warehouse as a backdrop. If this building is a public hazard, shouldn't it be cordoned off to avoid risk liability issues for the owner? Did the city complete the street connection and, if so, is there some further obstacle to re-development?


Don't forget teenage boy racers taking pictures of their car, http://www.flickr.co...uvr/8391115428/



Or middle-aged guys with their bicycles....

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#32 Volare

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:01 AM

Indoor shooting range! Although indoor ranges are not uncommon, one the length of that building certainly would be! The only really long indoor ones I know of are underground.



#33 Joshw

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

Hey now, GTI's are very nice cars. They aren't the Honda rice burners that teenagers, and the teenager-minded, run around in. :)



#34 johnfwd

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:41 PM

I suppose all the above suggestions for future use of this building are probably better than the haunted house or paint ball erstwhile uses.



#35 dangr.dave

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:15 PM

I would add an urban climbing wall/rappelling wall to one of the sides.  In fact, I've always wanted to see the inside, so I might just have to get my grappling hook and evaluate the feasibility of the climbing wall sometime soon.



#36 ramjet

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:57 PM

I know I'm about to get pilloried for suggesting demolition of the T&P warehouse, but I just don't see an economically feasible and useful purpose for this building.  Perhaps a portion of it could serve as a facade for a new building constructed from the bricks of the rest of it after being torn down.  Based on recent reports, Lancaster, apparently, is starting to emerge from its recent slumber after the successful renovation of the train station into condos and the art project a while ago.  If I'm correct, the historically fascinating Spring Palace was located somewhere near the T&P warehouse.  Perhaps the ghost of the Spring Palace and the former (hopefully to me) warehouse could influence the theme and design of an entirely new multi-use development at that stellar location.  Cleopatra of Dallas:  let go, just let go...



#37 RD Milhollin

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:08 AM

I would add an urban climbing wall/rappelling wall to one of the sides.  In fact, I've always wanted to see the inside, so I might just have to get my grappling hook and evaluate the feasibility of the climbing wall sometime soon.

 

Those large empty elevator shafts would work great for climbing, but you would need long belay ropes. Get hold of me when you start to plan that clandestine excursion; i'm in.



#38 renamerusk

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

I know I'm about to get pilloried for suggesting demolition of the T&P warehouse,.....

 

Where can I get some pillors?  :swg:



#39 Austin55

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:29 PM

Hey now, GTI's are very nice cars. They aren't the Honda rice burners that teenagers, and the teenager-minded, run around in. :)

Why thank you! :)



#40 Jeriat

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:33 PM

Really depressing everytime I walk past that building... 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#41 prideftw

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:12 PM

I'm sorry but it is true to me that even though preservation is important it's not that important to keep non functioning eye sore standing. That building is long and ugly. now if someone would re do it and add some floors to it or something maybe it would be something. 



#42 John T Roberts

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:47 PM

I was going to chime in yesterday after Ramjet posted his comment on the building, but I never got around to it. Ramjet, I do respect your opinion. Many people think the building is ugly. A lot of others think that any time a building becomes an eyesore, it should be demolished instantly. The building has played an important role in the city's history and Lancaster Avenue's history. Just remember, when it is gone, it's gone forever and will never be replaced. I think what needs to happen is for a new visionary owner to buy the property. A visionary project utilizing the building could be a great enhancement to new developments on Lancaster.

Also, the warehouse could not be demolished by just getting a Demolition Permit from the city. It is Historically Designated as a Highly Significant and Endangered Landmark in the city. It would take a hearing by the Landmarks Commission to receive a Certificate of Appropriateness to demolish the warehouse. They would also have to recommend removing the HSE designation, and that would also have to be approved by the Zoning Commission and the City Council. In the eyes of the city, the T&P Warehouse is a more important historic landmark than Will Rogers or the Tarrant County Courthouse because those two are only designated Demolition Delay.

#43 dangr.dave

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:09 PM

I know I'm about to get pilloried for suggesting demolition of the T&P warehouse,.....

 

Where can I get some pillors?  :swg:

 

Are y'all gonna have a pillor fight?  If so, I suggest pillors with down feathers in them, as they get better momentum when swung.



#44 JBB

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:00 PM

Tearing down the building isn't simple and just creates a different set of problems.  Demoltion of a building that size is going to be ridiculously expensive and when you're done, unless the current owner has their own plan, you're left with a large plat of vacant land and the need to recover all of the added expense of demolition by selling it or redeveloping it.

 

Patience and the right person with the right plan (and the money) will make something happen sooner or later.  Rebuilding Lancaster after the overhead closure took years longer than expected and, with the city's development coming across the street, we may finally see something of substance picking up steam on that end of downtown.



#45 johnfwd

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

Sorry, but earlier query as to an update hasn't been answered (maybe nobody knows).  The last update (January 2012; see above) was that re-development was awaiting  the city's completion of the Lamar/Hemphill Street connection that would run on the west side of the building.  I haven't inspected the site lately, has the street connection been completed.  If it has, is there anything else keeping Cleopatra from rehabilitating this eye-sore?



#46 JBB

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:51 PM

The last update (January 2012; see above) was that re-development was awaiting  the city's completion of the Lamar/Hemphill Street connection that would run on the west side of the building.  I haven't inspected the site lately, has the street connection been completed.  If it has, is there anything else keeping Cleopatra from rehabilitating this eye-sore?

 

No, the street connection hasn't been completed.  Money, or a lack thereof, is the biggest thing holding this project back.



#47 RD Milhollin

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:25 AM

So meanwhile the gaping holes in the roof keep the indoor swimming pool filled. This sort of treatment seems to be pretty common in Fort Worth. That site would sure make a great parking lot (sarcasm).



#48 Fort Worthology

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:04 PM

It has always seemed to me that this building is one of those where the owner every so often makes some noise about redeveloping it (usually after some bad press from Historic FW, the paper, etc. about letting it sit neglected), juuuuust enough to get everybody off their case, before coming up with a new excuse to delay redevelopment (funds, wanting to cut a driveway through it - ugh -, the Hemphill-Lamar connector, etc.), and the cycle begins again.  So on, and so on, for over a decade now.

 

I honestly believe nothing will come of this until somebody else owns it.  I would love to be proven wrong.



#49 johnfwd

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:27 PM

It has always seemed to me that this building is one of those where the owner every so often makes some noise about redeveloping it (usually after some bad press from Historic FW, the paper, etc. about letting it sit neglected), juuuuust enough to get everybody off their case, before coming up with a new excuse to delay redevelopment (funds, wanting to cut a driveway through it - ugh -, the Hemphill-Lamar connector, etc.), and the cycle begins again.  So on, and so on, for over a decade now.

 

I honestly believe nothing will come of this until somebody else owns it.  I would love to be proven wrong.

Kevin,

 

",,,over a decade now."  I think you're letting time get away from you.  I remember this eye-sore being a haunted house back in 1992...20 years ago!  Since I moved back here from Oklahoma in 1987, I don't know if it was still vacant earlier then that time.  Anybody recall when the building's vacancy began?



#50 Fort Worthology

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

Kevin,

 

",,,over a decade now."  I think you're letting time get away from you.  I remember this eye-sore being a haunted house back in 1992...20 years ago!  

 

I'm just going by what somebody posted earlier about Cleopatra Investments having owned the building since 1998.






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