Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Bartonville's Disrespect for Cyclists


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 23 June 2010 - 06:32 PM

Bartonville, in Denton County, approved an ordinance last week that requires groups of more than 9 cyclists to get a special permit costing $50 to ride the roads of the city. This ordinance defines "race" and "rally". In those definitions, two police officer friends of mine, interpret that any group of 10 cyclists riding together would be forced to apply for this permit. Several of the FWBA Northeastern Tarrant County rides go through this city. http://corinthcycling.freeforums.org/ has more information and interpretation of this new ordinance.

The text of the actual ordinance can be found here: http://www.townofbar...Ord...e (2).pdf

Even though I am against this ordinance, I'm also worried about the precedence it might set. If other small towns pass a similar ordinance, cyclists might be completely denied access to a large region beyond the areas of enforcement. If adjacent towns pass a similar ordinance, a whole portion of a county could be unavailable for club rides. One solution to this that is not very environmentally friendly is to drive 50 or more miles to ride further out in the country. I will admit that the roads and the scenery is better that far out, but sometimes it's nice not to have to drive so far just to ride a bicycle.

#2 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,071 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:76123

Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:51 PM

Interesting. I wonder how it would hold up in court?
My blog: Doohickie

#3 Keller Pirate

Keller Pirate

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 849 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Keller

Posted 25 June 2010 - 12:24 PM

You would probably need an appeal. I suspect you would lose in municpal court, since it is a local ordinance. I am not a lawyer, but I would think an appeal would stand a good chance of winning.

#4 Papaw

Papaw

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 520 posts
  • Location:South Fort Worth

Posted 30 June 2010 - 12:08 PM

I couldn't believe Bud Kennedy's column this morning about the small Denton county city of Bartonville. If there are more than 9 bicyclists in a group going through the city they have to give advance notice and pay $50 for a permit. This is going the wrong direction in my opinion and I sure hope other cities don't try stupid laws like this. angry.gif

http://www.star-tele...ists-pedal.html

#5 Jim Wilson

Jim Wilson

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 160 posts

Posted 01 July 2010 - 05:45 PM

It is a sad example of creating a new ordinance rather than enforcing those already existing (in my opinion).
They appear to have trouble with large groups of cyclists, but their trouble is cyclists more than 2 wide on the roadway.
Simple answer, employ your police dept to stop, warn, inform, and cite if necessary...
... the law says no more than two wide. I am sure cyclists could adhere to this condition.

However, now they've a law against having more than 8 friends along on a bicycle ride. Sad.
Additionally, they've garnered attention for their small town, and not positive attention either.
Public Roadways are just that- Public, for the use of all... this limits that.
I doubt this situation is at its conclusion.

#6 David Love

David Love

    Skyscraper Member

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,656 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Downtown Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, gothic structures, Harley Davidsons, active with Veterans Affairs. Making things out of wood and carbon fiber.

Posted 02 July 2010 - 06:53 PM

I don't see how they could enforce that, as long as everyone didn't wear matching race numbers. Wouldn't groups of 10 or more cars or motorcycles be in violation?

The ordinance is against races and rallys of any kind. I don't think you have to get a permit for bicycle rallys in downtown Fort Worth, but I'm pretty sure you do for foot races.

Better Business Bureau:  A place to find or post valid complaints for auto delerships and maintenance facilities. (New Features) If you have a valid gripe about auto dealerships, this is the place to voice it.


#7 Recyclican

Recyclican

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bryan, Texas (formerly Arlington)
  • Interests:Urban Planning, Conservation, Sustainability, Transit-oriented-Development, Historic Preservation.<br /><br />Hiking, camping, reading, BBQing, photography, traveling

Posted 25 August 2010 - 05:15 PM

I agree that it is a ridiculous ordinance, though it would hardly be easy to enforce given the language. How does one define a group of 10 or more? Riding on the same street in the same block? Within 50 feet of each other? 100 feet? The ordinance does not specify - therefore it would be easy to challenge in court.

I propose an easier solution. The town is 6 square miles in size (according to Wikipedia). Cyclists in a "group" that approaches the town can split up in to groups of 9 as you ride through town, then reunite on the other side of the city limits. No big deal.

By the way, here is the Bike Texas petition: http://www.biketexas....php?Itemid=246

#8 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 25 August 2010 - 05:36 PM

According to some people in the city, the distance should be a time separation of 2-3 minutes. If you ride 12 mph, that's 1/2 mile between groups. However, that didn't have much bearing on a group of 9 cyclists that were pulled over by the police after the ordinance was passed. The officer charged that another group ahead of the 9 was actually with them. According to the 9, they didn't see that group and they didn't even know they were there. Since the 9 couldn't prove or disprove the other group was not with them, they were asked to leave the city. The 9 turned around an immediately rode out of town.

#9 bfg9000d

bfg9000d

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 79 posts

Posted 25 August 2010 - 08:04 PM

Forget Bartonville, Just come to Cleburne we more then welcome bicyclist in the DFW area and most of are side streets have bicycle lanes. I have even seen officers ride behind a group of bicyclist one time to protect them from traffic coming from behind. (Instead Bartonville just gives them a citation what happen to protect and serve). There are also some really scenic rides slightly outside of Cleburne, heading west of Cleburne Airport. Plus we are home to The Tour de Goatneck 100k, which is one of the biggest North Texas rides in the area. Their is 3,000+ riders going down are streets during that time. Not just nine, and days before the race we see multiple groups going up and down the streets. So rest assured we would be the last place to enforce a stupid law like that. Long and short we welcome riders obviously Bartonville does not. In the end it's their lost

#10 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 25 August 2010 - 08:14 PM

I take that you are from Cleburne, bfg9000d. The Fort Worth Bicycling Association has frequent rides starting in Cleburne. The club often rides the Goatneck route as a club ride. We find the people of Johnson County are friendly and courteous to cyclists. After every ride, we all try to gather for lunch at some of the great restaurants in Cleburne, so we also try to spend our money there.

From what I have been reading on cycling forums, it appears that cyclists have quit giving any business to Bartonville merchants. Since the town is so small, and they have only a handful of commercial establishments, I'm sure that this loss of business has been insignificant.

#11 bfg9000d

bfg9000d

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 79 posts

Posted 25 August 2010 - 11:19 PM

I take that you are from Cleburne, bfg9000d. The Fort Worth Bicycling Association has frequent rides starting in Cleburne. The club often rides the Goatneck route as a club ride. We find the people of Johnson County are friendly and courteous to cyclists. After every ride, we all try to gather for lunch at some of the great restaurants in Cleburne, so we also try to spend our money there.

From what I have been reading on cycling forums, it appears that cyclists have quit giving any business to Bartonville merchants. Since the town is so small, and they have only a handful of commercial establishments, I'm sure that this loss of business has been insignificant.


Thank-you for visiting Cleburne. We always welcome DFW bicyclist. Most cars and people atleast in Cleburne are pretty respectful of bicyclist in the area. Of course you will always find some idiot that's not courteous. But on the norm I have found Cleburne to be more accommodating to bicyclist, then allot of other areas I have visited. The Goatneck ride is a great event because the money that goes into the event goes to various charity's around Johnson County. Plus everybody that attends the event has a blast riding in it.

#12 Keller Pirate

Keller Pirate

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 849 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Keller

Posted 27 August 2010 - 09:28 AM

I was looking at the map of Bartonville and the main drag thru town seems to be FM 407, which is a state highway. I'm pretty sure if a group of riders passed thru Bartonville and stayed on FM 407 that the city ordinance would not apply if it is more restrictive than state law. I would love to hear a lawyers opinion on this.

I know in Keller we have 3 state highways and the city does not maintain, set the speed limits, or control the traffic signals. All the local police can do is enforce the speeds and rules the state sets.

If you got on a city owned and maintained street they might have some say, however I didn't see any penalty in the ordinance for violating the 10 person rule.

#13 bfg9000d

bfg9000d

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 79 posts

Posted 29 August 2010 - 01:21 PM

I was looking at the map of Bartonville and the main drag thru town seems to be FM 407, which is a state highway. I'm pretty sure if a group of riders passed thru Bartonville and stayed on FM 407 that the city ordinance would not apply if it is more restrictive than state law. I would love to hear a lawyers opinion on this.

I know in Keller we have 3 state highways and the city does not maintain, set the speed limits, or control the traffic signals. All the local police can do is enforce the speeds and rules the state sets.

If you got on a city owned and maintained street they might have some say, however I didn't see any penalty in the ordinance for violating the 10 person rule.



Maybe. But I think the underlying concern on the thread is the fact that other towns may follow with similar ordinances. Is it possible yeah is it probable probably not. For us we get allot of bicyclist that come through our area, they also park their bikes and eat at many of the restaurants here in Cleburne. I don't know how it works for other towns. But discouraging any form of bicycle riding whether group or not. Is ridiculous, especially considering that so many cyclist that do come into Cleburne, spend money here. Some even spend the night.

#14 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 06 September 2010 - 07:35 PM

Channel 5 News had a story on the ordinance airing on several newscasts on Saturday. They reported that one group has sent their $50 in and have filed for a parade permit. I wonder about the identity of that group.

#15 bfg9000d

bfg9000d

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 79 posts

Posted 06 September 2010 - 08:52 PM

Gee. I would think the best thing to do is not send any money at all. Because your just funding the ordinance in the end.

#16 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 06 September 2010 - 09:11 PM

I would think the same thing. However, there may be a rally that still wants to go through the town, so $50 is a small price to pay to run a rally. It will be interesting to see how this law plays out. Will it ever be repealed, or will cyclists finally not ride through the town at all?

#17 mmiller2002

mmiller2002

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 900 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Hi Mounttttt
  • Interests:Born 1959
    HS Grad 1977
    1982 BSEE Penn State

Posted 07 September 2010 - 12:07 PM

I only caught a brief piece of a news blurb on this, but but it seems that they had trouble with cyclists following the rules of the road, or something like that. What are the problems they are trying to fix?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users