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Religous Nuts in Sundance


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#1 vjackson

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 10:11 AM

I have some friends that stopped by to visit me in Dallas while they drove from California to Florida. I decided to take them to Fort Worth Friday night. This was their first time in Texas. We had a wonderful time for the most part, but in the 2 hours we were downtown, we were approached by religous people three times (from the info, it looked like different groups) handing out information and one guy preaching on a bullhorn. As we were leaving, there was a group in front of the movie theater that handed us a flyer that said something like Santa is Satanic. The group of men in front of us were unhappy with this and said so. What followed was a little shocking: Be warned..this group is extremely agggressive. As soon as the men complained, these guys not only responded with name calling, but a couple of them started approaching the dissapproving group of men very aggressively, screaming biblical scriptures and seemed as if they wanted to fight. Luckily, the group crossed the street and went on. But not after profanities and physical threats were exchanged .

Anyone know who this group is or what church they belong to?? Unfortunately, I tossed the flyer, but I do know they were green and the heading was "Santa is Satanic" or something like that. I would love to contact Sudance Sq about them, but have little info. This made a poor impression on my friends who already think Texas is full of gayhaters, racists, and religious nuts. I"m assuming they have the right to hand out material, but I don't think they have the right to threaten downtown patrons.

#2 Recyclican

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 10:51 AM

I have also been accosted by one or more of these groups in the past. I especially have sympathy for the many patrons of downtown Fort Worth who are not there to booze it up or take part in other "sinful" activities, yet have to deal with this sort of harassment. I thought freedom of speech/expression ceases to exist when it infringes on the rights of others; and verbal abuse and threats, in my opinion, constitute an infringement of others' rights.

#3 jefffwd

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 12:08 PM

QUOTE (Recyclican @ Dec 21 2009, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have also been accosted by one or more of these groups in the past. I especially have sympathy for the many patrons of downtown Fort Worth who are not there to booze it up or take part in other "sinful" activities, yet have to deal with this sort of harassment. I thought freedom of speech/expression ceases to exist when it infringes on the rights of others; and verbal abuse and threats, in my opinion, constitute an infringement of others' rights.


Well, I was down there "boozing it up" at Scat Jazz Lounge and if I had been harassed by those nuts I would have kicked some serious arse. I hate people that try and force their "religeon" on others. Like this nut for instance...


#4 cberen1

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 01:30 PM


For me, the challenge is how a group can collectively decide when it stops being urban flavor and becomes detrimental. I like the energy on the street. I am a little flattered that some of these nuts feel like this is a good place to proselytize. Personally I'd like to see a few more street musicians.



#5 jefffwd

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 01:56 PM

QUOTE (cberen1 @ Dec 21 2009, 03:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For me, the challenge is how a group can collectively decide when it stops being urban flavor and becomes detrimental. I like the energy on the street. I am a little flattered that some of these nuts feel like this is a good place to proselytize. Personally I'd like to see a few more street musicians.


I like the street energy and the street performers as well. I took a friend to the paraede of lights and there was a guy sitting on one of the planter boxes and had a dog laying down by his side... laying on the dogs back was a cat and laying on the cats back was a rat. She looked at me and said "That looks like something you'd see in LA". smilewinkgrin.gif

#6 cjyoung

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 02:15 PM

QUOTE (vjackson @ Dec 21 2009, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This made a poor impression on my friends who already think Texas is full of gayhaters, racists, and religious nuts. I"m assuming they have the right to hand out material, but I don't think they have the right to threaten downtown patrons.


Well, sorry your friends had a bad time in Funkytown. Unfortunately, the group has a right to be there. I just ignore them.

#7 jefffwd

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 02:29 PM

QUOTE (cjyoung @ Dec 21 2009, 03:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (vjackson @ Dec 21 2009, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This made a poor impression on my friends who already think Texas is full of gayhaters, racists, and religious nuts. I"m assuming they have the right to hand out material, but I don't think they have the right to threaten downtown patrons.


Well, sorry your friends had a bad time in Funkytown. Unfortunately, the group has a right to be there. I just ignore them.


That's something I don't get... You cannot perform on the street in Sundance Square... play the guitar, drums, paint etc. without a Sundance Square pass around your neck but these "preachers" can yell at people and accost them? dry.gif


#8 Doohickie

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 06:56 PM

Commit this nugget to memory- Romans 12:17 "Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody." Then tell him that just cuz he believes in Jesus doesn't give him the right to be an ***hole.

I've seen those types down there, but very seldom. I engage them a little if I have the time, hear them out, then critique them on their style, being friendly the whole time, naturally. It really perplexes them. biggrin.gif
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#9 JKC

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 07:24 PM

QUOTE (vjackson @ Dec 21 2009, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have some friends that stopped by to visit me in Dallas while they drove from California to Florida. I decided to take them to Fort Worth Friday night. This was their first time in Texas. We had a wonderful time for the most part, but in the 2 hours we were downtown, we were approached by religous people three times (from the info, it looked like different groups) handing out information and one guy preaching on a bullhorn. As we were leaving, there was a group in front of the movie theater that handed us a flyer that said something like Santa is Satanic. The group of men in front of us were unhappy with this and said so. What followed was a little shocking: Be warned..this group is extremely agggressive. As soon as the men complained, these guys not only responded with name calling, but a couple of them started approaching the dissapproving group of men very aggressively, screaming biblical scriptures and seemed as if they wanted to fight. Luckily, the group crossed the street and went on. But not after profanities and physical threats were exchanged .

Anyone know who this group is or what church they belong to?? Unfortunately, I tossed the flyer, but I do know they were green and the heading was "Santa is Satanic" or something like that. I would love to contact Sudance Sq about them, but have little info. This made a poor impression on my friends who already think Texas is full of gayhaters, racists, and religious nuts. I"m assuming they have the right to hand out material, but I don't think they have the right to threaten downtown patrons.


If you would just call in with time and exact location, and also the descriptive you mention above, it would be helpful.




#10 longhornz32

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:33 PM

I passed this group in my car one time recently near the theater as they were screaming that a mother and father were "Liars" to their children. Their tone was very angry and the two children were no older than 6 years old. The screaming was so loud I thought there was a fight and rolled down the windows. Remarkably the parents just kept walking to the garage.

I never understood how someone thinks screaming and demeaning people will make someone want to join their religion. I almost wonder if they are wanting to be thrown out of downtown or arrested to be able to make bigger scene.

#11 David Love

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:35 PM

The guy on the bullhorn is down there "a lot" mainly on active nightlife nights, I've actually started to find that group a bit amusing.

The folks in front of the theater are there off and on all year peddling whatever is in season, I just shake my head and walk away, they seem to be more aggressive on date nights, I take what they're shoving with my right hand and have dialed 911 with my left, when I lift my phone up with my thumb on send, it's mouths shut, about face, I snap a photo or two and go I go about my business. I sometimes wonder if they're really religious at all or maybe have a beef with the theater or something.

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#12 John T Roberts

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 10:12 PM

I have also been acosted by them while shooting pictures and they said something like I was a sinner because I had patronized the establishments in Sundance. I told them that on that night I was just there to shoot night photographs and I had not been in any of the businesses. They quickly left me with one of their pamphlets and I went about the evening shooting more pictures.

#13 Brian Luenser

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 10:43 PM

QUOTE (John T Roberts @ Dec 21 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have also been acosted by them while shooting pictures and they said something like I was a sinner because I had patronized the establishments in Sundance. I told them that on that night I was just there to shoot night photographs and I had not been in any of the businesses. They quickly left me with one of their pamphlets and I went about the evening shooting more pictures.


You should have said, "Give me 300 of your pamphlets and I will help you pass them out" devil.gif
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#14 vjackson

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 07:49 AM

QUOTE (cjyoung @ Dec 21 2009, 03:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, sorry your friends had a bad time in Funkytown. Unfortunately, the group has a right to be there. I just ignore them.

I didn't want to imply that this ruined our evening....It didn't and we had a very good time. The amount of bible thumpers was just kinda surprising. These types are in Dallas too, just not so many in one place. A coworker told me they were frequenting the gayborhood for a while, and I've encountered some in downtown Dallas. But they've never been so aggressive as the incident I saw in FW.

#15 Nitixope

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 11:13 AM

The Bass security team has a lot more authority than one would imagine because so much of downtown is considered private property. There are probably some loopholes allowing free speech on public sidewalks, but I would recommend reporting harassing or aggressive behavior to one of the security officers and they can actually remove people from Bass property if need be. The police must play by a different set of rules (ie. the law) and their hands are tied until someone actually commits or reports a criminal offense.

Some of those guys do more harm than good with all that finger pointing and name calling and it would be interesting to see just how perfect they are when no one is looking. Maybe this helps illustrate what I mean:




#16 Sam Stone

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 11:51 AM

I'm definitely not a fan of religious nuts, but. . . you know you're a real city when you have them shouting on the sidewalk. We've arrived! wink.gif There aren't too many places in Arlington or North Richland Hills where they could do what they're doing.

As for prohibited activities on the street, I say we need food vending carts selling hot dogs, gyros, tacos, etc. That's something that Sundance needs to loosen their grip on.

#17 Dismuke

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 11:55 AM

QUOTE (vjackson @ Dec 21 2009, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This made a poor impression on my friends who already think Texas is full of gayhaters, racists, and religious nuts. .



Any stereotype, even those which are profoundly unjust, ultimately has at least some sort of basis in fact at its root, however twisted - otherwise the stereotype would not work or exist.

There is a reason why such a stereotype exists about Texas. Part of it has an actual basis in fact given that Jim Crow laws existed in this part of the country for many decades and, for awhile, 80 something years ago, Ku Klux Klan affiliated officials controlled the city governments of Dallas, Fort Worth and many county governments and had a substantial number of members in the Texas legislature. Part of it is ignorance over the fact that a LOT has changed in Texas over the past 50 years. Some of this ignorance is innocent. Some of it is due to people having a dislike for Texas for entirely different reasons and who want to believe that such stereotypes are true. And Texas does have a large number of religious conservatives - and there are a lot of stereotypes about those people as well which, in turn, are based on a mixture of fact, ignorance and antipathy.

The reality is that gayhaters, racists and religious nuts exist in every state and in every large city in this country. One could perhaps make the case that they are more visible and constitute a larger percentage of the population here in Texas than elsewhere. But, at least in the major cities and probably in many rural locations as well, the percentage of the population that clearly fits into that category in any hard core way is quite small. (And I am not talking about situations where some would automatically stereotype ANYONE who speaks with a drawl, goes to church or is at all "country" as being a bigot - which, actually is a form of bigotry in and of itself).

Now, given that there is a basis for such a stereotype about Texas, the question is how to deal with it when it is brought up by people such as vjackson's friends. The first step is to recognize that there are some people in this world who, for whatever reason, find the stereotypes that they hold to be convenient and will cling to them no matter how much evidence to the contrary they are presented with. Some people in this world are simply not open to persuasion - and there is no point in wasting energy getting upset or frustrated by that fact. For those who ARE open to looking past the stereotypes, the best bet is to simply put the facts in their proper context and, above all do NOT be defensive about it.

In this case, how YOU react to such people is what will make the biggest impact on your friends and out of town visitors. If you laugh the whole thing off and dismiss the proselytizers as being a bunch of fringe kooks, you will send a very different message than if you are clearly bothered by it. By not being defensive about it, I mean that one should openly acknowledge that such mindsets DO exist here and, at one time, DID exist here in a very big way - and then provide the context that, for the most part, such attitudes have largely died out over the decades, but there are pockets where they do linger on in certain respects.

As for that group downtown, cjyoung has the best advice on this matter: ignore them. The group of men that vjackson saw confront them made a big mistake in doing so. Entering into a private, face to face debate with someone implies two things: one, that the other person is reasonable and potentially open to persuasion and, two, that you are open to any rebuttals they might offer. The reality is that people who act in such a manner are NOT open to persuasion. And, as a matter of principle, I am not receptive to anything a person who tries to force a debate upon me has to say.

Engaging such people in conversation is a no-win situation. To the degree you politely listen, you encourage them by reinforcing their view that what they are doing is effective. By confronting them, you are only reinforcing their world-view that downtown Fort Worth is full of "sinners" who need to be "saved" and thus encourage them to continue. Saying that one is not patronizing such establishments with the hope that it will get rid of them only reinforces and gives sanction to their notion that there is something wrong with such establishments.

The only thing that is effective with such people is to ignore them. Deprive them of ANY sort of reaction and, over time, they will feel increasingly impotent in their efforts and be more likely to become discouraged.

My approach to such people is identical to my approach towards panhandlers: If I am by myself, I just keep on walking and give them no acknowledgment whatsoever, verbal or otherwise. If I am with someone, I keep walking and continue with my conversation without any sort of pause whatsoever. If everybody in downtown Fort Worth were to react in such a manner, I guarantee you that these people would close up shop and move on to something else.


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#18 vjackson

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 01:12 PM

^^^^
"I'm like my mother, I stereotype. It's faster" cool.gif

...George Clooney in "Up in the Air", explaining why he prefers standing in airport lines behind Asians instead of Jewish people, middle easteners, etc.

#19 David Love

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 07:26 PM

QUOTE (Sam Stone @ Dec 22 2009, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm definitely not a fan of religious nuts, but. . . you know you're a real city when you have them shouting on the sidewalk. We've arrived! wink.gif There aren't too many places in Arlington or North Richland Hills where they could do what they're doing.

As for prohibited activities on the street, I say we need food vending carts selling hot dogs, gyros, tacos, etc. That's something that Sundance needs to loosen their grip on.


I'd think that might be a solution to the lack of "after hours" food options downtown. Why couldn't Sundance offer a license to a few taco / hot dog / burrito stands as long as they operated from say11:00 PM and later?


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#20 AdamB

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 01:12 AM

QUOTE (David Love @ Dec 22 2009, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Sam Stone @ Dec 22 2009, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm definitely not a fan of religious nuts, but. . . you know you're a real city when you have them shouting on the sidewalk. We've arrived! wink.gif There aren't too many places in Arlington or North Richland Hills where they could do what they're doing.

As for prohibited activities on the street, I say we need food vending carts selling hot dogs, gyros, tacos, etc. That's something that Sundance needs to loosen their grip on.


I'd think that might be a solution to the lack of "after hours" food options downtown. Why couldn't Sundance offer a license to a few taco / hot dog / burrito stands as long as they operated from say11:00 PM and later?



Ahh the good old folks from Kingdom Baptist Church. I brought this up years ago on the boards and there was actually a church member that was a registered user on this site. Years ago I was crossing the street by AMC and they were blocking the curb shouting and going about so I ventured five feet outside of the crosswalk because there was no other place to go. Well... here comes Mr. tough cop that is always standing in front of AMC... the guy is a realy jackass. Anyway, as my wife and I are about to walk into the theater, he starts harassing me, grabs me by my arm, threatens to throw me in jail, etc... all for what because I stepped outside of the crosswalk.

I made it a point to inform the his superior of that nights events since I know quite a few folks on the police force. Anyway, he said that the officer's behavior was inexcuseable and he was going to make a point to talk to him about it. I am sure my complaints fell on deaf ears though.

I liek a vibrant and active streetscape... however, these clowns constantly obstruct pedestrian traffic and engage in harassment on a consistent basis. I think SS and FWPD has been way too soft on these folks.

#21 jefffwd

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 11:59 AM

Looked at their website and found this...

Every Friday at 8:30PM we meet in downtown Fort Worth (near the movie theater) to hand out tracts, preach the Gospel, and admonish believers to prepare for the coming of the Lord.


http://www.kingdomba...ndex.cfm?id=425 <<< Downtow Fort Worth Street Evengelism rolleyes.gif

#22 Dismuke

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 12:13 AM

QUOTE (AdamB @ Dec 24 2009, 03:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Years ago I was crossing the street by AMC and they were blocking the curb shouting and going about so I ventured five feet outside of the crosswalk because there was no other place to go.



If they are actually blocking the sidewalk and crosswalk, then the city definitely can and should be able to do something to stop at least that from happening.

One's right to free speech is merely the right to express one's views to anyone who is willing to listen. It does not give one a right to an audience. Nor does it grant one a right to speak on someone else's property. The sidewalks downtown, of course, are government property and, for that reason, the city does not have the authority to prevent people who are using those sidewalks from expressing their views. But that does not give people the right to prevent others from being able to use the sidewalk or other government property for their intended purpose. Free speech does not give one the right to block a sidewalk or a street or access to a building or to disrupt the activities that go on in those buildings.

If they are actually blocking the sidewalks and crosswalks, then someone who has the time and inclination ought to catch it on videotape and file a formal complaint. Not exactly sure what the formal procedure for filing such a complaint is - but I'm sure it is not too difficult to find out. And if somebody on the street continues to force a conversation on you after you have asked them not to - that is harassment. It is probably not worth most people's time to pursue. But it might be if you are a downtown business owner and it is impacting your customers.


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#23 mschrief

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 10:25 AM

I've been annoyed with these Jesus nuts before, and had the Basstapo quiet them down.

I don't think they are a positive example and shouldn't be allowed to scream and holler their craziness on city streets.

Definately wouldn't make me want to visit their church!

#24 Dismuke

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 11:32 AM

QUOTE (mschrief @ Dec 25 2009, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Definately wouldn't make me want to visit their church!



Yes. Consider for a moment the intellectual stature and level of self-esteem of someone who could actually be persuaded as a result of being berated by a bunch of strangers on a street corner. And consider what that implies about a person who thinks that such tactics are effective. On the other hand, persuasion might not be what they are really after. I know very little about this particular group - but with some the objective is not so much bringing about persuasion as it is obedience.
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#25 FortWorthLowrider

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 03:21 PM

errrrrrrrrrrr. I have been annoyed by them before.
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#26 FoUTASportscaster

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 09:53 PM

QUOTE (jefffwd @ Dec 21 2009, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (cberen1 @ Dec 21 2009, 03:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For me, the challenge is how a group can collectively decide when it stops being urban flavor and becomes detrimental. I like the energy on the street. I am a little flattered that some of these nuts feel like this is a good place to proselytize. Personally I'd like to see a few more street musicians.


I like the street energy and the street performers as well. I took a friend to the paraede of lights and there was a guy sitting on one of the planter boxes and had a dog laying down by his side... laying on the dogs back was a cat and laying on the cats back was a rat. She looked at me and said "That looks like something you'd see in LA". smilewinkgrin.gif


I saw that same guy in Dallas while on patrol one day. After seeing that, my thought was that I had officially seen everything.

#27 ruthannbeloved

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 01:32 PM

i personally love these people,
mostly because although I am not one of the Kingdom Baptists,
I am one of these Street Preachers.

Mark 16:15.

#28 bfg9000d

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 06:05 PM

Here is an idea have a designated preaching and religious nut screaming area. Problem Solved

I love street performers. A few nights back one guy a couple of blocks down. Was playing the guitar he sounded great and really added a cool effect to that block. We need more people like him. Not some screaming, preaching nuts.

A trick to employ to get these nuts off you very quickly. Just say you are already a christian (even though you may not be) and believe the end is near. Trust me they won't hand you a flyer or nothing they will just look the other way. It works every time.

I use to employ this trick at the airport back in the day. Just say I'm already a _________ (Insert Faith of that person). Sometimes I had to be five or six different faiths just to get threw them all. Because the minute you say otherwise they are all over ya.

#29 jefffwd

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 12:04 PM

i personally love these people,
mostly because although I am not one of the Kingdom Baptists,
I am one of these Street Preachers.

Mark 16:15.


He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. REALLY!?! Just leave people alone...

#30 Owen

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 01:41 PM

Well, the way some street preachers carry on, you begin to wonder whether it really is Good News.

#31 David Love

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 08:11 PM

Sometimes amusing, sometimes annoying. I like videoing them, one of these days I'll figure out what to do with the footage.

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#32 cberen1

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:50 AM

What I think most of these people forget is that the point of "spreading the good news" is to engage people and help them see the "the way." Assuming that the spreaders are bright enough to absorb this concept, then they really have to try to spread the word in the way that is most likely to get through.

What I see, a lot of the time anyway, is that their spreading methods reflect both their frustration with the sinners lack of conformity, and their disdain for the sinners as lesser people. They have a message, and apparently divine guidnace, so you better listen or else burn in hell. I think they see their dedication to expressing their views their way in the face of rejection and derision as virtuous.

Ironically, the New Testament is full of Jesus doing the exact opposite. He tailored His communication style to the people He was preaching to by the use of parables, and He was openly accepting of sinners of the worst kind. While the message itself was not flexible, "there is only one way to heaven", His method of communicating that message was very flexible.

There is a fallacy in the notion that being hated for spreading the word is, in itself, a good thing because Jesus was, at times, hated for His work. But he was also, at times, beloved by thousands for His work and He went to great lengths to make His message understandable by people who weren't pre-disposed to listen to Him. If He had just hit them over the head with it, it would have never worked and the delivery would have been inconsistent with the message.

I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes people are hated for bringing truth and light into a dark and unreceptive place. And sometimes people are just hated for being jerks.

#33 bfg9000d

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:37 PM

What I think most of these people forget is that the point of "spreading the good news" is to engage people and help them see the "the way." Assuming that the spreaders are bright enough to absorb this concept, then they really have to try to spread the word in the way that is most likely to get through.

What I see, a lot of the time anyway, is that their spreading methods reflect both their frustration with the sinners lack of conformity, and their disdain for the sinners as lesser people. They have a message, and apparently divine guidnace, so you better listen or else burn in hell. I think they see their dedication to expressing their views their way in the face of rejection and derision as virtuous.

Ironically, the New Testament is full of Jesus doing the exact opposite. He tailored His communication style to the people He was preaching to by the use of parables, and He was openly accepting of sinners of the worst kind. While the message itself was not flexible, "there is only one way to heaven", His method of communicating that message was very flexible.

There is a fallacy in the notion that being hated for spreading the word is, in itself, a good thing because Jesus was, at times, hated for His work. But he was also, at times, beloved by thousands for His work and He went to great lengths to make His message understandable by people who weren't pre-disposed to listen to Him. If He had just hit them over the head with it, it would have never worked and the delivery would have been inconsistent with the message.

I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes people are hated for bringing truth and light into a dark and unreceptive place. And sometimes people are just hated for being jerks.



Well what your describing is from a religious flexible standpoint. What defines truth and light from a religious standpoint, any _______ (insert faith) Could be truth and light. I could deliver truth and light from any number of religions that are out there and preach on it. Making people believe that my way is the right way, nobody is 100% sure. That is whats called Faith. Faith fills up and covers the missing 10+ percent that says gee I could be wrong. I always find it funny the fact that religious people look at most of everybody as sinners and not as a potential friends or acquaintances. It has got to be the most negative outlook on life and people one could ever have. (Driving in traffic gee, look at all these sinners) :wacko:

If one really wants to make people follow there _______ insert religion, then the most effective way of all is to stop the screaming, stop the bullhorn preaching, stop the shouting and stop the harassing. Instead actually perform random acts of kindness. That will get you much further down the road then any other technique describe here. This will allow you to approach that person with what ever religion your trying to tell them about and they will be more likely to listen. Instead of passing you off as a nut job. This is just common sense stuff, that apparently allot of people that do this religion pushing down at sundance square doesn't have allot of.

#34 David Love

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 09:58 AM

I sometimes think of them as Panhandlers on Salary. ;)

I've wondered what percentage actually enjoy accosting people in the manner they do and how many act as they do simply as a coping mechanism due to nervousness.

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#35 bfg9000d

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 02:29 PM

I think allot of them actually enjoy accosting people as well as a certain degree of fear drives them to, because they feel they must save people. If they don't those people will burn in hell forever. It's pretty simple. I think also to some degree some of those people do it, not because they want to but because they have been literally brainwashed in there religion and believe it is necessary or they themselves will backslide and be like one of them again. It's all about staying on the endless religious track . So in that matter nervousness does play into it. So yeah you are correct.

The problem I see if I where to hand out literature about how to become a Atheist you can bet your ass that I would be removed from the property. Freedom of speech doesn't always go both ways and that's what even sadder. But in reality have you ever had and atheist do the kind of stuff to you that the religious people do in sundance square well I rest my case. I don't see many preaching atheist on bullhorns.

#36 cberen1

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 07:12 AM

...have you ever had and atheist do the kind of stuff to you that the religious people do in sundance square well I rest my case. I don't see many preaching atheist on bullhorns.


The most likely reason is that atheists are not generally organized. To be organized would come across as anti-religion, which would probably, to your point, go over very poorly.

But, atheists have been very effective at using the courts to protect their rights. The courts are well designed to protect individual rights, and most atheists act as individuals. There are a few who seem to take issue with religion as an institution and want to take on the whole lot of them. But most of the atheists I know are content to not believe in God and quietly go about their business.

To the question about whether or not the Sundance Square religious nuts enjoy accosting people, I agree they must to some degree. Maybe the thought is if you can't get the sinner on your side, then irritating the devil is a good alternative.

#37 Art Cooler

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:57 PM

What I see, a lot of the time anyway, is that their spreading methods reflect both their frustration with the sinners lack of conformity, and their disdain for the sinners as lesser people. They have a message, and apparently divine guidnace, so you better listen or else burn in hell. I think they see their dedication to expressing their views their way in the face of rejection and derision as virtuous.

Ironically, the New Testament is full of Jesus doing the exact opposite. He tailored His communication style to the people He was preaching to by the use of parables, and He was openly accepting of sinners of the worst kind. While the message itself was not flexible, "there is only one way to heaven", His method of communicating that message was very flexible.

There is a fallacy in the notion that being hated for spreading the word is, in itself, a good thing because Jesus was, at times, hated for His work. But he was also, at times, beloved by thousands for His work and He went to great lengths to make His message understandable by people who weren't pre-disposed to listen to Him. If He had just hit them over the head with it, it would have never worked and the delivery would have been inconsistent with the message.

I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes people are hated for bringing truth and light into a dark and unreceptive place. And sometimes people are just hated for being jerks.


Confession time: in my know-litlte youth I used to "street preach" in downtown San Diego, CA. I ran around with a group of fundamentalist Baptists...most of us were Navy or ex-Navy...the church we were involved in was favorable toward military structure and the often concurrent machismo. While I was more inclined to "share the light" with folks on the street, some of my fellow preachers were more like you describe - very frustrated by "sinners" and their lack of conformity to "the light".

While I started off this confession by couching my involvement in terms of "know-little youth", even then I began seeing how ridiculous it was to browbeat folks over the head with angry, bombastic warnings of impending doom if one does not stop immediately, confess to being a sinner, and accept Jesus on the spot. The question that kept running through my young mind was "If I at one time was just as lost and dark and sinful as the ones I'm preaching to, why should I be all hell, fire, and brimstone to them if that's not how I got attracted to 'the gospel' to begin with?"

These days I'm not involved with any of that. I'm to where if I can't see how someone's religion helps them to be a better human being, I can't see much use for the religion at all. I know any given religion can have very beneficial teachings, and that's great. I also know that it's up to any given person as to what extent they accept and practice the various tenets of a religion. However, if they wish to interest me in a tenet or the very core belief of their particular persuasion, I want to see it in them, more than I want to hear it by words. Words are cheap. Action costs more.




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