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Streetcar Circulator Update


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#301 Jeriat

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 04:06 PM

It would make a great bike trail or LR line.... except for where it crosses the access roads.  Everything else is just about perfect.  It even drops on the west edge of the Ridgmar Mall parking lot where there's a massive lot west of JCPenney.

 

I'd put a new bridge over the access roads and make it long enough to if (and when) that section of 30 expands, you wouldn't have to change anything. 

And if Ridgmar one day goes under, use parts of it as a maintenance facility. 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#302 Doohickie

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 04:49 PM

And if Ridgmar one day goes under, use parts of it as a maintenance facility.


If it ever went under, I think it would simply redevelop as big box retail to augment the stuff that's already gone in further north on 183.  The mall closest to where I grew up went under and within a few years there was a Home Depot, a supermarket and some other big box stores.  I could see something similar in the Ridgmar location which is already at the center of that shopping district.


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#303 BlueMound

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 01:31 AM

Atlanta streetcar to span more than 50 miles
https://nextcity.org...n-transit-miles

#304 renamerusk

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 12:54 PM

That Atlanta has adopted the streetcar initiative is a strong indicator that eventually Fort Worth will have to join into this initiative also.



#305 Volare

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 11:41 PM

That Atlanta is and has adopted the streetcar initiative is a strong indicator that eventually Fort Worth will have to join into this initiative also.

 

You clearly are uninformed that here in Fort Worth, We Think Big. We will have none of that Federal tax money spent in this town, especially as a handout to developers*!

 

*Unless it's part of the TRV, then good to go.



#306 Doohickie

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 08:22 AM

Ah, so all we have to do is to link a streetcar line to Panther Island.  Maybe with a multimillion dollar bridge and everything.


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#307 renamerusk

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 09:14 AM

 

That Atlanta is and has adopted the streetcar initiative is a strong indicator that eventually Fort Worth will have to join into this initiative also.

 

You clearly are uninformed that here in Fort Worth, We Think Big. We will have none of that Federal tax money spent in this town, especially as a handout to developers*!

 

*Unless it's part of the TRV, then good to go.

 

 

I would characterize myself differently and as being optimistic instead; and here is why -

 

Before and during the time of the decision by a split City Council refusing to accept the streetcar grant despite that surveys showed the public favored the idea.  I feel that the public has not changed its opinion since that time.  We now have a different mayor and council who appear to be more inclined to a streetcar system; and given a second opportunity Fort Worth will participate. :)



#308 Russ Graham

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 09:53 AM

Okay, of the 4 council members who voted against continuing the streetcar study (Zim, Scarth, Jungus, Burdette), only Scarth has been "voted out" - and he was replaced by Cary Moon, whom the ST described as a "developer and businessman from the city's far north".  I assume this means he didn't campaign on the promise of new streetcar lines.  Carter Burdette retired was replaced by Dennis Shingleton, basically Carter's hand-picked successor the way I see it, who is also very unlikely to be the swing vote that moves the council towards streetcar adoption.  Of the 4 council members who were in favor (Burns / Espino / Moss) or absent (Hicks) only Espino is still in place.

 

As far as the council members are concerned it doesn't appear the numbers have changed at all, it's at best a 4-4 deadlock.  Not sure if Mayor Price would want to be the "swing vote" that decides the other way if the Council can't be persuaded. 

 

Just pointing out that the political realities have not changed a lot since 2010.  Not sure the economy is much better either given the current price of oil & gas.



#309 renamerusk

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:34 AM

...Not sure if Mayor Price would want to be the "swing vote" that decides the other way if the Council can't be persuaded. ...Just pointing out that the political realities have not changed a lot since 2010.

 

I again emphasize that I am optimistic that changes that are occurring elsewhere and since the 2010 decision will be more persuasive the second time around. If the split decision is deadlocked at 4-4, then Mayor Price will decide in favor given the chance.  Past decisions are never irreversible and the political realities inevitably change.  Here is Mayor Price in 2012:

 

http://www.wfaa.com/...08/13/13721476/



#310 JBB

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:06 AM

Yeah, Mayor Moncrief was also for the streetcar project before he was against it. It's easy to be all for revisiting the issue during the election honeymoon period, but voting for it in the council chamber is a whole different ball game.

#311 Russ Graham

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:12 AM

Right and that's even assuming the council ever gets to vote on "accepting a 25 million dollar grant" again.  That's not the kind of offer that comes around very often. 



#312 renamerusk

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:48 AM

Right and that's even assuming the council ever gets to vote on "accepting a 25 million dollar grant" again.  That's not the kind of offer that comes around very often. 

 

 Recall, at that time, streetcars were deemed a bit more experimental than they are today; and Fort Worth was one of just a few cities that was awarded a starter grant.  Now with Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, Tampa all with expanding streetcar networks, the initiative is now and going forward will be a fully funded state/federal/local project; not the continuance of startup grants.



#313 Volare

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 09:51 AM

IMHO it will be a long time before Federal money for something like a streetcar is ever even offered to Fort Worth again. The Feds wasted a lot of time and effort on that failed bid, and were made to look stupid by a council who wanted to "send it back to D.C." which of course resulted in it simply being sent one county to the east.



#314 renamerusk

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 01:37 PM

Waste is not attributable exclusively to Fort Worth.  So why then would it be in the best interest of the Federal Government to be spiteful towards one of its major cities?

 

Hasn't it been reported just today that the Federal Government has awarded $100m to Fort Worth's Tex Rail Project?



#315 AndyN

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 06:33 PM

Those who know anything about streetcars aren't talking and those that are talking don't know anything. But there was one that was close.

 

The T is currently updating its planning documents. Perhaps there will be something to chew on once the new plan is released next year.


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#316 Doohickie

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 09:17 PM

What are you saying (or not), Andy?  ;)


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#317 Russ Graham

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 07:11 AM

Those who know anything about streetcars aren't talking and those that are talking don't know anything.

 

Isn't that the basic rule of the internet?  :)  I only get to spout off about things I know nothing about. 

 

Well if there's something brewing in the planning stages, best of luck.  Here's hoping we have better luck this next time around. 



#318 Electricron

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 04:32 AM

Those who know anything about streetcars aren't talking and those that are talking don't know anything. But there was one that was close.

 

The T is currently updating its planning documents. Perhaps there will be something to chew on once the new plan is released next year.

 

Hopefully this time around they will take into account the pre-existing TRE and TexRail lines, and the future TexRail line southward on the FWWR. All they really need initially for a streetcar line is an east-west alignment between the ITC and Will Rogers Complex. 

I like the Lancaster alignment best, but 7th Street will also be okay.  Keep the streetcar line short, simple, and sweet, you might be surprised how affordable it could be.



#319 Volare

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Posted 15 February 2016 - 10:57 AM

More from the City to the East, and the Tyranny that Moncrief and Co saved us from.

 

http://oakcliff.advo...s-and-weekends/



#320 Dylan

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Posted 15 February 2016 - 03:58 PM

That's a much better schedule for tourists, but it no longer runs during the morning rush hour for office workers.


-Dylan


#321 fortworthhorn

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 10:18 AM

Thread bump.  Atlanta's streetcar is about to go in the trash: http://politics.blog...-the-long-view/

 

I think its important to note that a streetcar system without proper planning and dedicated ROW is not the savior to central city transit.  It was highlighted during the T's most recent Master Plan efforts by it's consultants and from the public.

Atlanta is a prime example of how you can permanently damage multi-modal transit in an urban area.  They might never get another chance, especially with the current political climate.  It's important to get it right here in FW whether it is streetcar, light rail, or BRT.

I think BRT is the most likely and feasible from a dollars standpoint.  The execution from planning, marketing, and customer service will be critical.  Look at the battle Dallas is having right now with their D2 alignment.  You have a bunch of people trying to do it right IMO by going underground.  They recognize what will happen if you are wrong.



#322 Dylan

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 01:44 PM

Here's the story from a couple of Atlanta TV stations: http://www.fox5atlan...156195808-story . http://www.wsbtv.com...23730/316586170

 

Seems like the state of Georgia and the private company it hired are blowing a bunch of small issues out of proportion.

 

That said, the low ridership numbers are disappointing, and likely a result of the small size of the starter system.

 

--------------------------------------

 

As for the DART D2 alignment, I agree it should get built right the first time and be completely underground through downtown.


-Dylan


#323 Austin55

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 02:52 PM

Meanwhile, El Paso is putting streetcar system in place. http://www.elpasotim...elded/86264540/

#324 fortworthhorn

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 04:00 PM

Meanwhile, El Paso is putting streetcar system in place. http://www.elpasotim...elded/86264540/

I believe El Paso has done well with their BRT "Brio" system as well.


Here's the story from a couple of Atlanta TV stations: http://www.fox5atlan...156195808-story . http://www.wsbtv.com...23730/316586170

 

Seems like the state of Georgia and the private company it hired are blowing a bunch of small issues out of proportion.

 

That said, the low ridership numbers are disappointing, and likely a result of the small size of the starter system.

 

--------------------------------------

 

As for the DART D2 alignment, I agree it should get built right the first time and be completely underground through downtown.

I have been following the Atlanta streetcar from the jump.  They really messed up without the dedicated ROW.



#325 Dylan

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 06:54 PM

By definition, streetcars don't run on their own ROW. A "streetcar" line that has its own dedicated ROW would be considered a light rail line.

 

As far as I'm aware, El Paso's "BRT" (which is supposed to act like light rail, but acts more like a streetcar) does not run on its own ROW.


-Dylan


#326 fortworthhorn

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 08:16 PM

By definition, streetcars don't run on their own ROW. A "streetcar" line that has its own dedicated ROW would be considered a light rail line.

 

As far as I'm aware, El Paso's "BRT" (which is supposed to act like light rail, but acts more like a streetcar) does not run on its own ROW.

Yes, hence my point about FW and the streetcar and streetcars in general.  Seattle is the only city I know of that is forward thinking on the streetcar.  They are planning on opening their City Center Connector in 2018 that will have a dedicated downtown lane or lanes.  I believe they are also still considering giving the existing South Lake Union line a dedicated lane.



#327 Electricron

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 10:26 PM

Yes, hence my point about FW and the streetcar and streetcars in general.  Seattle is the only city I know of that is forward thinking on the streetcar.  They are planning on opening their City Center Connector in 2018 that will have a dedicated downtown lane or lanes.  I believe they are also still considering giving the existing South Lake Union line a dedicated lane.

 

 

 

Seattle just opened a streetcar line on Broadway, and it's not in a dedicated lane partially, or exclusively. While streetcar normally operate in shared traffic lanes, they don't always do. The new Dallas streetcar to Oak Cliff crosses the Houston Street viaduct in a dedicated lane. The proposed Santa Ana streetcar will operate in a dedicated ex-Pacific Electric rail corridor over half its length, before sharing lanes in downtown Santa Ana streets. While both aren't exclusively in dedicated lanes or corridors, they do partially operate in them. So, Seattle isn't the only streetcar operating in dedicated lanes after all. ;)



#328 AndyN

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 02:03 PM

Well, it's certainly taking much longer than I expected. But it's not dead yet.


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#329 Austin55

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 02:04 PM

Any details?

#330 AndyN

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 02:10 PM

Not a thing official. Maybe at the next forum lunch.


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#331 Jeriat

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 03:37 PM

Well, it's certainly taking much longer than I expected. But it's not dead yet.

 

Oh...? 
 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#332 Volare

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 06:48 PM

Well, it's certainly taking much longer than I expected. But it's not dead yet.

 

What are we talking about?



#333 AndyN

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 05:12 PM

I was told but have not confirmed that today, former Tandy Subway Car No. 4 was loaded on a truck and departed its storage location behind the T shops on East Lancaster (where it has been sitting since leaving the former subway site). I am unaware of an official announcement of its destination.


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#334 JBB

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 05:20 PM

I would be shocked if this something to get real excited about.

#335 AndyN

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 05:24 PM

Actually, it is.


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#336 renamerusk

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 05:57 PM

Hope springs eternal.  Maybe we can get another bite at the apple. :)


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#337 JBB

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 07:13 PM

I guess I can qualify and say I'll be surprised if this has anything to do with a full-blown streetcar line of the same ilk as the last proposal.  But, hey, if you say it's exciting, I can't wait to hear what this is all about.



#338 Austin55

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 01:56 AM

IeG49cr.jpg

 

This was posted in the Fort Worth Memories page today

 

One of the comments

 

 

 

Shawn Boswell Hey y'all I cant tell anyone yet. something good is coming, EX SUBWAY TANDY MECHANIC ....


#339 Volare

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 10:33 AM

While y'all are holding your breath, tomorrow I'm gonna ride the Oak Cliff Streetcar on my way to the TCU-SMU game. We sure showed those Feds where to stick their money!!!



#340 renamerusk

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 08:57 AM

While y'all are holding your breath, tomorrow I'm gonna ride the Oak Cliff Streetcar on my way to the TCU-SMU game. We sure showed those Feds where to stick their money!!!

 

It took me a few minutes to visualize your path but I suppose you are taking the OCSC to Union Station/Dallas and DART beyond; right?

 

Oh by the way, the jury is still out on the OCSC -

 

http://www.dmagazine...n-dollar-waste/



#341 JBB

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 09:32 AM

That article was written 3 years before the line opened. I'm not saying it doesn't have merit, but something more recent might be better evidence of how the jury is ruling.

#342 Electricron

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 09:28 PM

Going down US 287 to where? The scrapyard? 

Note there the bogies containing the wheels and motors are completely missing.  MATA stole the bogies off one of Ft. Worth's old Tandy streetcars to refurbish another streetcar - I believe it was Betty #754. 



#343 Volare

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 03:31 PM

 

While y'all are holding your breath, tomorrow I'm gonna ride the Oak Cliff Streetcar on my way to the TCU-SMU game. We sure showed those Feds where to stick their money!!!

 

It took me a few minutes to visualize your path but I suppose you are taking the OCSC to Union Station/Dallas and DART beyond; right?

 

Oh by the way, the jury is still out on the OCSC -

 

http://www.dmagazine...n-dollar-waste/

 

 

Yes that is correct. OCSC from the end of the line to the start of the line at Union Station. Then red line to Mockingbird Station. I would have used TRE to/from but the last train was too early to depend on, so I had to drive there which was a huge pain for a 7 pm game as you might imagine.

 

With regards to the over-4-year-old-article you linked, I think that the OCSC has generated a massive amount of development all along the line that more than makes up for the minuscule cost.



#344 AndyN

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 03:50 PM

Going down US 287 to where? The scrapyard? 

Note there the bogies containing the wheels and motors are completely missing.  MATA stole the bogies off one of Ft. Worth's old Tandy streetcars to refurbish another streetcar - I believe it was Betty #754. 

 

 

That post is so full of incorrect information, I'm not even sure where to start.

 

If you looked closely you would see that the car is complete with trucks containing the wheels and motors still underneath it.

 

MATA purchased a set of trucks off of the car that was removed from the paint shop that had been stripped to bare metal for an aborted restoration. One of the trucks that they purchased is still sitting in the yard and another one is at a railcar shop near San Antonio. They were to be use in the regauging of a Toronto car.

 

#754 is equipped with cast frame trucks from a Melbourne X class car.

 

Tandy Subway No. 4 was in running condition when the line shut down. It is not being scrapped. It is getting a cosmetic restoration. I imagine a news release will be forthcoming in 3-4 weeks.


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#345 AndyN

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 04:04 PM

And, there's something interesting. The first time I've seen "fixed rail" in print. Several paragraphs down. http://urbanland.uli...-trinity-river/


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#346 Austin55

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 04:32 PM

Trinity River Vision just posted this on facebook....

 

Cumd7UHUMAA8KUt.jpg

 

As you can tell, it's a photo of a streetcar running down the Paddock Viaduct (Main street bridge). 

We'll hear a lot more soon I guess.... :)



#347 renamerusk

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 05:13 PM

This news is very exciting.

 

Somewhere, days gone by, I suggested that the Tandy Subway Tunnel, mothballed as of now, is best egress/ingress point of a street car route between Downtown and North and West Sectors of the City. 



#348 AndyN

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 02:29 PM

Well that's good to see. I was saying 3-4 weeks before the official press conference, so hopefully something soon.


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#349 AndyN

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 10:37 AM

A political hitch has developed. Announcement delayed until late spring, I would guess.


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#350 Jeriat

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 11:38 AM

A political hitch has developed. Announcement delayed until late spring, I would guess.

 

What's that? 


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