[John T Roberts]

PNL have announced more specific plans for the redevelopment of the Tandy Center. The redeveloped project will have residential, retail, and parking within the complex. The office space will go away. The Star-Telegram article is not on-line, but I do have some of the images taken from the early edition of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Because of existing mechanical being taken away to redevelop this project, new mechanical units will be added on top of the buildings, giving the flat topped Tandy Center Towers an chance to have some visual interest added to the tops of the buildings. I would assume that the new tops will be illuminated at night, similar to Pier 1 Place and The Tower.

Overall aerial of the project:


View of Tower 2 from Throckmorton Street:


View of Tower 1 from the old Technology Center:


View from Sundance Square:


Tower 2 from 3rd & Throckmorton:


Tower 2:


Aerial of Tower 2:


View from Tower 2 looking north:


As you can see, I have switched the two B&W renderings with new color ones and I have added five more renderings. These were supplied by David Porter of PNL.

This post has been edited by John T Roberts: 12 August 2004 - 08:25 PM

[mosteijn]

(jaw drops)

So this is the project they were alluding to in the business section today... Man, that looks amazing!!! I hope these are the final renderings because this looks perfect, what with the new roof structures.

I wonder if these will be reasonably priced...

[John T Roberts]

Yes, this is the project. The changes to the tops of the buildings will certainly add some interest to the skyline. It's nice to see that we are breaking out of the box with our designs.

[AdamB]

I LOVE IT... Throckmorton is going to become one of THE streets downtown...

[AdamB]

I just may have to look at buying on the upper floors of tower 5 facing North... I am sure it will have a good view of the future lake and would be an excellent investment!

[Willy1]

Oh My GOSH!!!! Forget my thread about not tearing down the old Tandy Center Mall... I love this design and the plans. I just didn't want to see the mall space become some out of the way green space that only the residents of the towers would use/have access to. I love the new tower tops and HOPE they're illuminated at night the way Pier 1 and The Tower are going to be. Wow - maybe FW has a whole new night time lighting scheme catching on to replace the now abandoned tradition of outlining the buildings with amber lights. I wonder what will happen to the lights on the East and West sides of the buildings that now spell out Radio Shack. And, what about the up-lights on the north and south sides of the buildings illuminating the sides of the towers? Those actually add a lot now, but I would imagine they might be annoying if you were trying to sleep in one of the towers.

[John T Roberts]

The lights on the east and west sides obviously would not be able to spell anything out with the center section of that wall becoming glass. I guess the remainder of the lights could stay in place and all of them could be lit up vertically on the side of the building. I agree with you in stating the uplights on the north and south sides would have to be turned off or removed. I wouldn't appreciate having them shining in my windows at night. This kind of top would lend itself to having it illuminated.

[Shocker]

Outstanding. I love it. I can't wait for this renovation to take place. By the way, any word when that would get started? This is unbelievably cool. Even the units between the towers are great. My compliments to the designer.

[John T Roberts]

Shocker, Radio Shack has to be completely moved out before any work can be done. The original estimates were for them to be doing the final moves in April of next year. However, the article states they may be out by February.

[Willy1]

I didn't notice the windows on the ends of the buildings until after my last post... Very cool look to the buildings over all. Obviously the two towers are going to be residential... any idea what the other sections are going to be, according to their corresponding numbers? It's hard to tell what is intended to be residential and what is intended to be retail. I'm so glad they're keeping some retail in the mix and not opening up the entire space for green space. So, are they still planning on opening up 2nd street (I think it is) to run through the towers? Boy this city sure does like boring holes in places so roads can run through them, huh? LOL

[cjyoung]

I think it's a great look.

[AdamB]

speaking of the lighting schemes... what do people think of the hideous masonic temple's lighting scheme now?

[John T Roberts]

The project will have 350 condominium units, 78,000 square feet of retail spread across all three buildings, and 1,200 parking spaces.

In the north tower, the retail will be on the ground floor and in the basement. In the south tower, the retail will be on the ground floor. The center building is new, and it will have parking in the basement, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th floors. On top of the new building will be 16 villa condominium units. On top of the base of the south tower will be additional villa units.

Yes, 2nd Street will be rebuilt through the complex. Willy, you stated that it sounds familiar. Remember, 2nd Street used to go through between Throckmorton and Taylor, as did 1st Street. This project is only separating the superblocks that have been deemed unsuccessful in current times.

[John T Roberts]

What is going on at the Masonic Temple? I was downtown last night, but I didn't notice anything unusual.

[AdamB]

they have dreadful yellow Christmas lights with about 2 yards of spacing between each light lining the building!

[UrbanLandscape]

I like everything except for the tops of the towers. Those oval-round things look bad and don't fit at all.

[AdamB]

I like it, they blend in with the more contemporary northwest development of FW(Pier1, radio shack, lake development) Plus it increases the height of the building which I absolutely love!

[UrbanLandscape]

AdamB, on Aug 1 2004, 01:48 AM, said:

I like it, they blend in with the more contemporary northwest development of FW(Pier1, radio shack, lake development) Plus it increases the height of the building which I absolutely love!

Yeah, I just wish the add-ons and the renovations all matched the original or at least one common style.

[John T Roberts]

Fort Worth Star-Telegram Article:
http://www.dfw.com/m...ess/9289905.htm

[tamtagon]

The site appears to be walking distance to the river. I'm vaguely aware of plans to make the Trinity accessible as a park and/or college campus (?), so I'm curious if this project will be next to a future park?

I need to catch up with what's going on in Fort Party Worth. Is Drakes Cafeteria still open?

[renamerusk]

Goosebumps! They have a put together a great design. The lower rise townhouses are cool.

I was initially puzzled by the need to the reopen Second Street being somewhat dubious of the need for yet another vehicular corridor for cruising and commerical traffic to ; presently 2nd Street is one of the nicest pedestrian friendly streets to walk in downtown ideally quaint for more sidewalk cafe venues. That being said; if the street can be narrowed and perhaps cul-de-sac at Henderson St., then PNL will have unwittingly created the possibility of a new NW downtown village, let's call it the "Florence Village". An area where additional moderately priced townhouse-like residences can be developed smack dab in the middle of some major employment centers (Radio Shack, Tarrant County, Pier1); this prospect is fantastic. This will, I hope make the city more proactive in whichever effort that it can make to prompt the county to reconsider expanding its prison complex in this part of Tarrant County which I feel will have a deliterious impact upon anyone considering living in that area of downtown.

More family/urban residences; no more jail cells!

"Keep Fort Worth Folksy"

I

[renamerusk]

Hello AdamB

I agree with you. Throckmorton Street is going to become Fort Worth's preiminent downtown "avenue". With projects such as "The Tower", Tandy/PNL, the CC hotel, and the possibility of a new XTO Tower (hopefully the city's tallest), Throckmorton will "rock". I love the street scene looking southwards with the T&P Warehouse visible in the distance. When the garage overpass at PNL is removed; we will only need the county or some Bass-like minded individual or organization to do something (mural maybe) with that hideous jail building to aesthically bookend a potential great downtown urban corridor.

I feel that the developers of the old Bank One Building missed a great opportunity by failing to incorporate "Throckmorton" into the name of their development. Perhaps PNL will have the foresight to do so.

"Keep Fort Worth Folksy"

[jmcgee]

tamtagon, on Aug 1 2004, 10:33 AM, said:

I need to catch up with what's going on in Fort Party Worth. Is Drakes Cafeteria still open?

Drake's Cafeteria closed several years ago (4?). Folks may not know that building, on the north side of Rosedale a few blocks east of Evans was originally the Zanzibar Ballroom with a roof that opened to the sky. I've heard stories about the artists that performed there, don't recall them all, but Sister Rosetta Tharpe was one.

I think that would be a great buidling for a classy live music nightclub to cater to the black community, especially with the attention Evans Ave. will be getting. I'd call it the Zanzibar.

[John T Roberts]

Tamtagon, from the north edge of the parking garage, it is a two block walk down the bluff along Taylor Street to the river and the Trinity Trails. There is already a linear park along the river that stretches for miles. Taylor Street actually ties into Heritage Park, which is the mini-Water Gardens, just north of the Courthouse. The new Tarrant County College Campus is to be east of the Courthouse and to the north of that across the river.

[normanfd]

I hope the market responds just a favorably as it has towards the Tower. If so, Downtown will be the place to invest.

[Sam Stone]

This is impressive. It's been in the works for awhile, but it's still surprising to see detailed plans. I cannot wait to see it happen. It will be a massive improvement.

I'm sorry to be a killjoy, but there are a few minor things I'm not crazy about.

1. Skywalks: I know we had a thread on the old forum where we discussed this, but I'll re-iterate my opinion. I hate 'em. I think they're bad for street activity for a number of reasons. The one between the Worthington and Tandy is particularly bad because it is so big.

2. I would like to see First Street re-opened as well.

3. Retail in the basement levels is bad for street activity.

These are tolerable, minor (not necessarily permanent) flaws.

[Horned Frog Country]

I am really looking forward to seeing this project get
going! Radio Shack needs to be out of there ASAP!
Somebody also needs to step up with good financing
plan to this thing going! I really wish they would
develop the north tower first. I am not sure I am
in the minority but I would think that more people
would rather own a condo/ penthouse looking north
out over the Trinity River or future town lake than a
view facing south. In any event, this a project I would
love to put money into rather than see that money
go toward expensive rent.

[mikedsjr]

wOAw!

I like.

[NOLArchitect]

Apparently, PNL has changed their plans for the north tower and it will no longer be renovated into condos. Now that DH Horton is taking the vacant space in City Center, there will be considerable demand for office space in downtown. The new plan is to leave the north tower as leasable office space. Link to the GlobeStreet.com article:

http://www.globest.c...s/125390-1.html

[John T Roberts]

Sam Stone, on Aug 2 2004, 01:25 PM, said:

I'm sorry to be a killjoy, but there are a few minor things I'm not crazy about.

1. Skywalks: I know we had a thread on the old forum where we discussed this, but I'll re-iterate my opinion. I hate 'em. I think they're bad for street activity for a number of reasons. The one between the Worthington and Tandy is particularly bad because it is so big.

2. I would like to see First Street re-opened as well.

3. Retail in the basement levels is bad for street activity.

These are tolerable, minor (not necessarily permanent) flaws.

1. Sam, the early plan called for the large bridge over Throckmorton between the Tandy Center and the Worthington to be removed. One of the ideas explored was to remove all of the parts of the Tandy Center over a street. In the more recent drawings, it looks like it is going to stay. I'm scheduled to receive more information very soon and I might be able to report the actual outcome of the design. I do agree with you that they are bad for street activity. Although I don't like the idea of having one over the re-opened Second Street, I'm sure the residents will like it because it will connect the homes with the parking.

2. I generally agree with you regarding planning issues, but I think re-opening First Street would not serve any purpose. The Worthington is not going to sever its north block and the Tandy Technology Center already blocks the street on the west side. If re-opened by PNL, it would be a one block street that probably wouldn't serve much purpose. The Worthington and Technology Center are now owned by separate entities.

3. I also agree that retail in the basement levels is bad for street level activity. However, some of those basement spaces even date back to the Leonard's Department Store days. The architects may be able to design the new retail so that some of the spaces are two level. With a larger space that could be leased, it may attract a few tenants that other buildings in downtown might not be able to attract. Only time and design will tell.

When I receive the information from PNL, I will post it here and let you know more about the design.

[Horned Frog Country]

NOLArchitect, on Aug 9 2004, 02:48 PM, said:

Apparently, PNL has changed their plans for the north tower and it will no longer be renovated into condos.  Now that DH Horton is taking the vacant space in City Center, there will be considerable demand for office space in downtown. The new plan is to leave the north tower as leasable office space.  Link to the GlobeStreet.com article:

http://www.globest.c...s/125390-1.html

That really pisses me off that the local brokerage
industry whined and potentially killed a great
residential development. The north tower to
me offers the better of the two for residential
usage. The north view from the north tower would
offer perhaps best views of the Trinity River and
future town lake development. A 2000 square foot
condo high up in Downtown Fort Worth with that view
would be my dream home.

PS. I may hold it against the local brokerage industry
if they decide not to develop the north tower for residential
use. If I finance getting a condo, I may deal with a national
or online brokerage instead of a local mortgage company when
I get done renting

[Horned Frog Country]

ghughes, on Aug 10 2004, 03:16 AM, said:

Quote

I may hold it against the local brokerage industry
if they decide not to develop the north tower for residential
use. If I finance getting a condo, I may deal with a national
or online brokerage instead of a local mortgage company

HFC, you may be confusing two groups. The local "brokers" that objected are most likely from the real estate community: i.e. Realtors. And in fact there was most likely a split between commercial and residential specialists who would be hoping to fill the space with their own customers.

Mortgage folks would not have been involved, or if they were would always prefer residential because that's where they make money. Very few mortgage brokers or bankers deal with commercial property at all, so this decision actually reduces their opportunities.

After rereading the article, it does
look like the commercial real estate
agents were the ones that complained.
While the article was informative, it was
not real clear in pointing out what specific
group was outraged.

[Horned Frog Country]

Another reason to develop the north
tower first is because there is a parking
garage already there for tenants to use
once they buy the condo. From a financial
standpoint, it also makes more sense to
develop the north tower first. That way
they can shorten the period of time to get
the revenue going. Otherwise, it will take
additional time and money to develop the
south tower first when you factor in building
the parking garage for it.

[AdamB]

The market will quickly become saturated until more big business comes downtown.. This will drive prices back down to a more affordable level... I am guessing the ideal time to buy in the primary market will be in about 3-5 years.

[rriojas71]

Hello All,

FW native now residing in San Francisco here. I recently found this website and forum and it's a great way to keep up with all the activity going on in my hometown. Thanks John for a job well done.


I just wanted to comment on some information from the article to get some further clarification.

The article states that the N Tower is now going to be 19 stories while the S Tower is going to be 20. Isn't that how many stories each one is already?

If there is going to be additional stories added to the Towers is that coming from the new decorative tops?

With the new tops added, will the overall height of the Towers push them ahead of Pier 1 Place?

Is the undergroung entrance to the Central Library still open? If it is I'm assuming that it will definitely be closed off from the center.


Like most people on here have already stated, I also think the N Tower should be developed First and I actually think the whole project would work better if both towers were to remain condos only like PNL initially had stated. Furthermore, I think they'd also be a much better fit with Radio Shack's corp. campus setting and they'd help create a pseudo-small village feel to that area of downtown. Other than that I think the new design of the whole project looks awesome and it will definitely add some much needed change to the boxiness of Fort Worth's current skyline.

Thanks again for the great website.

[Horned Frog Country]

David Love, on Aug 11 2004, 12:57 PM, said:

I agree the north tower is the optimum tower from a residential perspective. I had been considering purchasing a condo in the north tower with a good view of the Trinity as an investment, but with the prospective low end prices starting at $186.00 per square foot in the “no view” south tower I just don’t see it. Noticed the price went up from $140.00 per square foot in the first article.

Sounds like it’s not written in stone and both towers could still be condos.

Quote

Porter says it's an 80% to 90% chance both towers are going to be condo. "The odds are there's not going to be another DR Horton coming to town in 24 months. As a betting man, the two-tower, residential plan is the strategy...unless we get an office user competitive with our alternative," he says. "But we do have flexibility to be responsive to a large office user."

$186 per square foot it is very similar to what
is at the Tower. Actually, there are number of
units if not most of them that are still available
going for over $200 per square foot. I am not
saying that the Tandy project is a good deal at all.
However, it is priced in line with other projects
when compared to the Tower and Pecan Place.

[John T Roberts]

rriojas71, on Aug 11 2004, 02:13 PM, said:

I just wanted to comment on some information from the article to get some further clarification.

The article states that the N Tower is now going to be 19 stories while the S Tower is going to be 20. Isn't that how many stories each one is already?

If there is going to be additional stories added to the Towers is that coming from the new decorative tops?

With the new tops added, will the overall height of the Towers push them ahead of Pier 1 Place?

Is the undergroung entrance to the Central Library still open? If it is I'm assuming that it will definitely be closed off from the center.

I received the renderings and information from PNL. According to the information on the number of floors that are in the buildings, the total number of floors will not change. The North Tower is 19 floors and the South Tower is 20 floors. Each tower, with the rooftop addition will gain 30 feet. The rooftop additions will not push the towers ahead of Pier 1 Place. With the help of David Porter of PNL, I now have the current height of the buildings and the new overall heights. They are now considerably shorter than the information that was previously available. The North Tower is currently 247 feet tall and the South Tower is 258 feet tall. With the addition of 30 feet on each building, they will rise to 277 feet and 288 feet respectively. I now have adjusted their heights and rankings to the current levels at Fort Worth's Tallest Buildings. With this new information, several other building heights are now suspect, one of which is 500 W. 7th Street. I doubt that I will ever get the actual height of that building.

In your guess about the underground connection to the library, it could be wrong or right, but if the ground floor of the entire complex remains retail, then there might be opportunities for the underground connection to remain.

Sam, when I get the new renderings posted, you will be able to see that the large bridge over Throckmorton Street will be removed as originally planned. Only the existing skywalk between the center and the Renaissance Worthington Hotel will remain.

Welcome to the forum Rriojas and thank you for your comments.

[rriojas71]

Thanks for the answers to my questions John, it was very helpful.

The height of each tower is definitely much shorter than many websites have posted. Most sites listed them at 300ft... so I was assuming that with the additional 30 feet they would surpass Pier 1 place. I always felt like the towers seemed much smaller than 300ft, so I guess my sixth sense was right (for once). I still think they are going to have quite an impact on the skyline though, especially from the westside.

[John T Roberts]

As for the building heights, I always knew something was wrong, but without specific information, you don't know where the errors are. On all of the "newer" buildings, I either have the plans, or we have worked in the buildings and we had access to them.

The best place to find height information is the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps. They are somewhat difficult to read, but if you can add each level of the building, you will usually get a number that is real close. I've had a few chances to verify those maps and the real building dimensions have come up to be within 2 feet of what the Sanborn Maps have stated. I now need to verify Transport Life's height, as I feel the building is shorter than what most sites state. You can view the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps at the Historic Fort Worth Resource Center at 1020 Summit Ave.

[John T Roberts]

I now have switched the black and white renderings with full color ones and I have added five renderings never seen before.

[mosteijn]

Whoa, stunning renderings! I posted these at SSC, I hope you don't mind.

It's really starting to sound exciting on the westside...how long do you think it will be before we start to see vanishing parking lots along Henderson ?

[John T Roberts]

Jonny, the file name changed on the first rendering. If you could go over to SSC and edit your post to the new name, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, I can change it here, and then it will automatically show up on SSC.

[yar]

The underground connection to the library was closed off back when Radio Shack took over the entire complex. The library has reconfigured its operations to "turn it's back" on the old entrance and focus on the south, street-level entrance. I can't see the librarians reconfiguring everything again - my guess is that they'd just as soon see the lower level entrance stay closed.

[Shocker]

What's the latest info on this project? I haven't heard anything for quite some time. I imagine current Radio Shack employees will be vacating these towers soon. Does anybody know about the timetable for construction etc.?

[John T Roberts]

PNL is not allowed to start any construction until RadioShack has completely moved out. I'm sure they have set up an official date that they will turn over the center. I'm not sure what the exact date is, but I think all of the employees are supposed to be moved to the new campus by March. I would guess that it would be May, June, or July before any demolition starts inside the buildings. Since that work is going on inside, we may not see any visible means of construction or demolition until the fall at the earliest.

[lobster]

Since I do occasional contracting for the nation's largest remote-controlled boat retailer , I can tell you that all of TC2 has been cleared.. only Accounts Payable and a couple of other smaller departments remain in TC1.. The "fitness center" in TC1's basement down the hall from the dentist finally closed on Jan 2. The datacenter and tech support folk are all that remain at Technology Square..