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Neil P Anderson building converted to condos

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#51 David Love

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 12:54 PM

While looking up the condo prices above I ran across an article of the downtown San Diego land rush spurred on by the loft / condo boom and the going rates at the first of this year were $275 to $300 per square foot for dirt. I know California and Texas real estate prices have very little in common with exception of very small pockets but a lot of urban areas share a good deal of the same trends.

#52 redhead

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 01:47 PM

I agree that the trends will track and I would also agree that the prices will rise. When you start seeing dirt at those prices, the justification is based on floor area ratio. If there is a new tower in Fort Worth's future, the dirt price would be way up there, too.

#53 cberen1

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 02:10 PM

If dirt got expensive enough, do you think Purina could be persuaded to relocate for the value of the land? I don't think there's any question that the Purina facility detracts from the overall aesthetic appeal of downtown.

They own the plant and the Rock Island grain elevator. They actually own several acres there on 3rd street. Most of the original structure is slip-form. The elevator is coated in lead-based paint. Demolition would cost a fortune, but it would have to raise the value of all the surrounding land.

Purina would probably need to net about $10 Million to make it worth it.

#54 Urbndwlr

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 09:43 PM

possible solution is to buy site, leave most of structures, paint them, get brownfield funds to clearn up parts of the site.

goal: mitigate eyesore - clean up ground-level environmental hazards, develop the land around it, but leave the structure rather than demo it. I'm sure a talented architect could do something with that building with a limited budget.

#55 lobster

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 09:51 PM

I'm sure a talented architect could do something with that building with a limited budget.

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Have you seen that beast lately? On the top there's like 50 pipes all angled from different directions feeding into this wierd silo.. But alas, if one were to convert them to lofts, there's some naming potential .. the fun begins!

Purina Boutique Condominiums .. The Residences at Puppy Chow Ridge
The Lofts of Fancy Feast

#56 John T Roberts

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 09:59 PM

Have you seen that beast lately?  On the top there's like 50 pipes all angled from different directions feeding into this wierd silo..  But alas, if one were to convert them to lofts, there's some naming potential .. the fun begins!

Purina Boutique Condominiums .. The Residences at Puppy Chow Ridge
The Lofts of Fancy Feast

View Post

:rolleyes:

Urb, limited budgets can only go so far. However, I do think the building should stay. After all, it is a potential historic building.

#57 lobster

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 05:39 PM

Posted Image

Just to make sure I'm on the right track, this is what we're talking about, right?
*queasy feeling* ... *grabbing a bucket*

#58 David Love

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 02:54 PM

Looks like something that would fit nicely in a Mad Max movie.

#59 Urbndwlr

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 04:55 PM

I didn't mean it could be converted into an income-producing structure cheaply, just that it could be aesthetically enhanced.

#60 cberen1

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 03:37 PM

I didn't mean it could be converted into an income-producing structure cheaply, just that it could be aesthetically enhanced.

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I'm not sure it could be "enhanced" very much. Unlike the T&P Warehouse, this doesn't have any real windows for the most part. It just a big, odd shaped box. It's going to be tough to find an alternative use for it. The bulk of the structure is storage for loose materials (no floors in many areas and limited access to the entire strucutre, narrow halls and stair). Old grain elevators have been turned into rock climbing facilities in other cities, but this is just so big. (In fact, it is the largest animal feed production facility in the U.S.). It's not really ideal for Purina either (traffic), but it's hard to justify closing a working feed mill.

My vote would be to tear it down before some decides it's worth keeping just because it's old.

There is a problem with the site though, there are two major rail lines running through the middle of it, about 150 feet apart. If there was no structure, I wonder what you could use the property for?

#61 lobster

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 05:24 PM

There is a problem with the site though, there are two major rail lines running through the middle of it, about 150 feet apart.  If there was no structure, I wonder what you could use the property for?

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The whole property is sandwiched between rail lines, and oftentimes there are railcars completely stopped on them for a half-hour at a time, rendering 1st Street completely useless beyond Hillside. The only motivation for Purina to get rid of it is the fact that downtown is booming, Cotton Depot will be up soon, and the land it sits upon would soon become pretty valuable .. ('cept I'm sure those pesky train tracks could devalue that spot a little)

#62 mosteijn

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 05:29 PM

In my fanciful plan for downtown I created when I was at the delicate age of 12 (yes, I've been a nerd for quite a while), all of the cargo lines in the city are gathered into 4 super-corridors, leaving the rest free for passenger rail and/or bike trails, and then these super-corridors go into tunnels under downtown & surrounding area, freeing up land to develop and re-aligning the street grid. Yes, I know it's probably not very realistic now, but when I'm mayor in 25 years, it's hard to tell how far this city will be along. If the Purina site is still there by then, my plan will take care of it.

;)

#63 AndyN

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 09:17 PM

In my fanciful plan for downtown I created when I was at the delicate age of 12 (yes, I've been a nerd for quite a while), all of the cargo lines in the city are gathered into 4 super-corridors, leaving the rest free for passenger rail and/or bike trails, and then these super-corridors go into tunnels under downtown & surrounding area, freeing up land to develop and re-aligning the street grid. Yes, I know it's probably not very realistic now, but when I'm mayor in 25 years, it's hard to tell how far this city will be along. If the Purina site is still there by then, my plan will take care of it.

;)

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Isn't consolidation of the multiple rail lines through Fort Worth part of NCTCOG's agenda right now? It would be nice to see something akin to L.A.'s Alemeda Corridor done here in Fort Worth between Saginaw and I-20. Putting it in a trench and grade separation of the interchange at Tower 55 (right underneath the I-35/I-30 interchange) would speed up rail movements as well as improve access/traffic on the east side of downtown.

One of the NCTCOG transportation guys is a regular visitor to DFW Urban Forum. Maybe I should cross-post this question over there.


P.S. If I win the lottery, Purina facility will be there until I run out of money or my next of kin sells it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and industrial architecture has it's appeal too.
Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#64 SurplusPopulation

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Posted 02 December 2004 - 07:57 AM

Well, Johnny, in 25 years you and I may have a good race on our hands if all goes to plan. It is my plan and intention to become Mayor of Fort Worth as well. However, I am a few years older than you so maybe I can get there first and get the ball rolling, and you can take over once I have become Governor.

#65 JBB

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Posted 02 December 2004 - 07:57 AM

I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't mind having an industrial property like that on the fringes of downtown.

#66 lobster

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Posted 02 December 2004 - 03:40 PM

Well, Johnny, in 25 years you and I may have a good race on our hands if all goes to plan. It is my plan and intention to become Mayor of Fort Worth as well. However, I am a few years older than you so maybe I can get there first and get the ball rolling, and you can take over once I have become Governor.

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You know, if the both of you ever run against each other around 2029, we're going to excavate these posts and hold you accountable to your predictions and opinions, so post wisely! :lol:

#67 cberen1

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 08:57 AM

I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't mind having an industrial property like that on the fringes of downtown.

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I worked there for a few years and can tell you that the site has problems that will never be rectified because there is no financial payback. It's a single use facility with significant design problems. Large animal feed is a low margin business and there isn't a good reason for Purina to sink a bunch of money into it when they could build a new one for a lot less. They don't build feed mills like it anymore for a reason.

I guess the problem is that the facility will only continue to decay from here.

#68 TXSnoot

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Posted 05 December 2004 - 09:53 PM

HELP!! Sorry to be posting "off the topic," but the link in my e-mail box sent me to this thread. Can you tell me, Mr. All-Knowing Moderator, how do I go about finding "messages to me" around here??

ok... back on topic guys, excuse the interruption....

#69 John T Roberts

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Posted 05 December 2004 - 10:34 PM

In the upper right hand part of the page, specifically on the far right of the third box, click "Messages". This will lead you to your personal messages.

Another way to get there, is to click on "My Controls", and that will lead you to your messages.

#70 salvag

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Posted 06 December 2004 - 11:36 AM

Saw this in the ST today. Looks as if the building has been renamed The Neil P. at Burnett Park.



Developers determined to cash in on cachet

It's The Neil P. at Burnett Park, thank you very much.

That's what Amicus Interests, the developer converting the landmark Neil P. Anderson Building at 411 W. Seventh St. in downtown into luxury condominiums, has renamed the building.

Matt Herring, principal of Amicus Interests, said the name accentuates the building's location adjacent to Burnett Park and complements the conceptual vision of it becoming a "boutique" condominium building.

"Our focus group research revealed a demand and appreciation for downtown residences with the look and feel similar to a Park Avenue New York experience," Herring said in a statement.

The building will have 60 residences.

Amicus Interests bought the building from Trammell Crow Co. in August. It was constructed in 1921 for the Neil P. Anderson Cotton Co.

Because of an influx of inquiries by prospective buyers, the developers have created The Insiders Circle to market the project. The Insiders Circle offers invitations to advance preview events to learn more about pre-construction pricing, designs and floor plans.

Members of The Insiders Circle may choose to sign a letter of interest and gain priority registration even before the condominium development progresses to the construction phase, Herring said.

Architectural plans are being finalized for submission to the city for construction permits, he said.

#71 redhead

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Posted 06 December 2004 - 11:53 AM

So, do we think they've been reading the forum? All of our overwhelming negative response to the previously suggested name may have evoked a response!

#72 RD Milhollin

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Posted 06 December 2004 - 06:11 PM

So, do we think they've been reading the forum?  All of our overwhelming negative response to the previously suggested name may have evoked a response!

View Post


What response are you thinking of, it looks to me as if the developers haven't read the forum at all, or else they chose to ignore all the overwhelming opposition to the proposed, well, now official name. Neil P at Burnett Park is, well, it was already said elsewhere on this thread.

grrrrrrrrrr! ;)
Pup

#73 jefffwd

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 03:21 PM

www.theneilp.com

#74 UrbanLandscape

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 11:54 PM

Anyone else get the invitation in the mail, or am I the only one on their mailing list?

#75 cberen1

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 08:50 AM

www.theneilp.com

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I guess, much like beer, cleavage sells condos.

#76 grow_smart

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 04:56 PM

One thing is for sure - they've spent a heck of a lot of money on a bunch of nothing so far. Just redevelop the thing and put the units on the market. Stop spending money and uping the price based upon a 'buzz' you're trying to create. People will pay for a quality product if you provide one.

#77 WTx

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Posted 26 March 2005 - 09:38 AM

Todays Update...

http://www.dfw.com/m...ss/11237741.htm

#78 RD Milhollin

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 09:27 AM

A short history lesson on the Neil P. Anderson building from the S-T.

Posted on Wed, Jun. 29, 2005



Downtown office building has history

By Bill Fairley
Special to the Star-Telegram

The developers of luxury condominiums at West Seventh and Lamar streets have renamed the landmark 11-story building The Neil P. at Burnett Park.

The Neil P.? Didn't they forget a word?

Since 1921, the downtown office building has been known as the Neil P. Anderson Building. Here's a little history on the man and the building -- and no, he wasn't a cattle baron or wildcatter.

Anderson, who was born in Tennessee in 1847, began his career as a dry-goods merchant in Jackson, Tenn. He married Elizabeth Howard of McNairy County, Tenn., in 1876, and they came to Fort Worth in 1879 to get into the booming cotton-trading business.

Fort Worth was fertile ground for Anderson's entrepreneurial nature. He founded the Neil P. Anderson Cotton Co. and went into other businesses as well, including a major dairy operation called Alta Vista Farms.

The Andersons had four children: three daughters and one son. Anderson was joined in business by his son, Bernie L. Anderson, and son-in-law Morris Berney, who married Anderson's daughter Flora.

Neil Anderson was 65 when he died Feb. 27, 1912, two weeks after his car was hit by a streetcar. He was interred in a mausoleum in historic Oakwood Cemetery.

In 1919, Bernie Anderson and Berney bought the property of the Sam Levy family on the southeast corner of West Seventh and Lamar. They commissioned the well-known architectural firm Sanguinet and Staats to design a building to house the family's cotton company.

Other grain and cotton traders took offices in the building after its completion in 1925. The U.S. Department of Agriculture also had an office there, and retail establishments opened on the ground floor.

In her book, Fort Worth's Legendary Landmarks, Carol Roark gives this description of the Anderson building:

"Distinguished by a graceful curving facade ... the eleven-story buff-brick building has distinctive terra cotta ornamentation including medallions depicting bales of cotton and stems of grain, panels with garland swags, and paired urns which top the parapet wall. Curved windows, on the building's curved bay which meets the bend in Seventh Street, are unusual in Fort Worth. The storefront windows were large plate glass panes set in bronze. Inside, the office floors had marble wainscoting, wood and glass partitions, and red tile floors."

On the top floor, where cotton samples were graded for texture and color, large skylights provided natural light.

The Neil P. Anderson Co. closed its doors in 1939, but ownership of the building remained in the family until after Bernie Anderson died in 1961.

The first renovation came in 1959, supervised by architect Herman Cox, with Ellis Brown as the contractor.

Roark writes that the renovation included "the application of an aluminum fascia over the facade of the first two floors, redesign of the storefront windows, and remodeling of the lobby entrance."

A second interior remodeling followed in 1965 by new owner R.G. Hughes.

There was a scare in the mid-'70s when a lender foreclosed on the building, evicting tenants and even beginning the process of demolishing the building. But The 411 Company, headed by Charles W. Rogers, stepped in to save the structure. Architect Martin Growald was put to work restoring the building's facade and updating the interior for modern offices.

The building is listed in the National Register of Historic Places.

In 1978, it was also designated a Recorded Historic Landmark.

The building -- minus "Anderson" -- is entering yet another phase under developers Matt Herring and Mark Latham. Architect Matthew Mooney said he used the building's original architectural plans, which were in archives at the University of Texas at Austin. His design restores some of the original details lost over the years, he said.

Now you know about Anderson. But do you know the Burnett in Burnett Park?

Source: Star-Telegram and Fort Worth Record; Fort Worth's Legendary Landmarks, by Carol Roark and Photos by Byrd Williams.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Fairley is a longtime Fort Worth resident interested in Texas history. bilfairley@aol.com

#79 David Love

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 10:37 AM

Posted on Sun, Jun. 26, 2005

Construction begins on Neil P. at Burnett Park downtown condominiums

The wait is over. The building permit has been approved and construction is now underway for one of downtown Fort Worth's newest, most sophisticated condominium projects. That's great news for residents who are eager to move in before the holidays.

Nestled midtown at Seventh and Lamar Streets, adjacent to picturesque Burnett Park, The Neil P. is part of an emerging urban community filled with charming, vibrant street life and proximity to restaurants, shops, movie theaters, Bass Performance Hall, Sundance Square and other attractions.

The building itself features unique architecture and a storied past. Built in 1921, the 11-story tower was a renowned center of commerce during the city's bustling formative years.

Today it has been re-envisioned by developers Matt Herring and Mark Latham, of Amicus Interests, LLC, as Fort Worth's premier address for the new millennium.

Carefully developed as a boutique property, The Neil P. at Burnett Park promises a more intimate, high-quality living experience -- similar to that of one's favorite boutique hotel. To ensure the appropriate look and feel, project architect Corgan Associates and interior designer Brenda Stephenson have teamed to create living spaces that are rich in detail and sensory appeal.

Features and amenities include a tranquil pool "sanctuary," residents' media room, gourmet kitchens, spa bathrooms, optional wood floors, available balconies, 24-hour concierge and more.

True to its boutique definition, the development is limited to only 60 condominium residences offered for sale, including a spectacular park-view penthouse suite. Purchasers may choose from 11 floors with park, city or other views, as well as a variety of flexible floor plans priced from $200,000.

To set an appointment with a sales representative, call 817-698-0411 or go online to www.theneilp.com. The Neil P. at Burnett Park condominium sales office is located at the Neil P. Anderson building at 411 W. Seventh Street in downtown Fort Worth.

#80 mrowl

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 10:24 AM

I am curious... their model is open now, and I wonder how much a 2BR is going for....

#81 grow_smart

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Posted 17 July 2005 - 09:28 PM

I am curious...  their model is open now, and I wonder how much a 2BR is going for....

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Someone more interested in this project could probably give you more details, but I did get a chance to visit their open house this weekend.

Looks like they still have a lot of work to do (and need to work on thier dust control - those who pass by the area during a weekday know what I mean), but they do have one model open. It's a roughly 1,800 sq. ft. unit that runs about $255 per square foot, so I'll let you do the math. The sales person said that number will vary slightly, but will be in the 250 - 280 range (except the penthouse at 600). PLUS - you have to add a $.50 per month HOA fee, plus a monthly parking fee.

Anyone else visit the open house and care to share comments? I'll reserve mine for now...

#82 hale

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 10:20 PM

i think 255 per square foot is ridiculous. what makes it worse is the extra cost of parking (a price that may fluctuate or even cease to exist at some point) and the HOA. what exactly does the HOA provide besides the pool and the upkeep of a building... i get the feeling that the home owners are paying for the business tenants' overhead for the upkeep of the building too!

don't get me wrong, the building is nice. the price is not.

#83 Brian Luenser

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 08:23 AM

i think 255 per square foot is ridiculous.  what makes it worse is the extra cost of parking (a price that may fluctuate or even cease to exist at some point) and the HOA.  what exactly does the HOA provide besides the pool and the upkeep of a building... i get the feeling that the home owners are paying for the business tenants' overhead for the upkeep of the building too!

don't get me wrong, the building is nice.  the price is not.

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The HOA will likely provide insurance on the building. (Tornado's know their way to Fort Worth.) Also, they likely will provide security (they will call it something else for liability reasons, like courtesy officers)... also they must pay utilities on the building for heat, a/c and elevators. PLUS, they must pay for legal work when a member decides they want to raise goats or have barking dogs in their units. And do remember, that the residents will wind up voting for HOA issues after the declarant loses control of the Association. (The members are not helpless if things are heading South.) I surely do not know all the details, but 255 a square foot sounds like a fair deal in a newly renovated place downtown, if it is done well.
www.fortworthview.com

#84 mosteijn

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 10:57 AM

As I understand it, 255 is a bargain compared to many cities, and right in line with most of the others. Also sounds similar to Tower pricing.

#85 John T Roberts

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 07:00 AM

There is an article on the project in today's Fort Worth Star-Telegram:
http://www.dfw.com/m...ss/13388321.htm

#86 hooked

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 03:38 PM

QUOTE(grow_smart @ Jul 17 2005, 09:28 PM) View Post

Anyone else visit the open house and care to share comments? I'll reserve mine for now...


I took the tour a few months ago, and overall, I think it's going to be a good project. I'm no decorator, but I didn't care much for the furnishings (kinda reminded me of my grandma's house). Also, the bathrooms and closets were a bit on the small side.

Come to think of it, so were my grandma's.

#87 DJASONMILLER

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 10:48 PM

The Neil P bulding is up for sale.. all 79,000 sq feet can be purchsed for 20,900,000. Sounds steep to me...

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#88 grow_smart

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 01:31 PM

FYI...

For those that may be interested, they installed the permanent canopy / awning over the main entry on 7th Street this week and put a few plants out there. Adds some character to the facade.

Also - there was a fire on the roof yesterday. Got a huge response from the Fire Dept., but appeared to be only a small blaze. I'm guessing it was from construction related activities.

#89 Urbndwlr

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 07:42 PM

I had a chance to walk through the building (toured the model unit). It appears to have been very tastefully designed and built. I particularly like to see that they didn't cut some corners as commonly done with some condos (e.g. solid-core doors vs hollow-core doors). I already have a place elsewhere but that should make a good little building. I like the fact that it isn't huge - better than the 300 units at the Tower.

#90 vjackson

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 10:46 AM

^^^^^
A coworker from our FW office said the exact same thing. She said there
was more quality workmanship, unlike the cheap, cost-cutting look of the units she had viewed at the Tower. I'll have to check the out the next time I'm working in FW.

#91 Brian Luenser

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 03:50 PM

QUOTE(vjackson @ Jan 14 2006, 12:46 PM) View Post

^^^^^
A coworker from our FW office said the exact same thing. She said there
was more quality workmanship, unlike the cheap, cost-cutting look of the units she had viewed at the Tower. I'll have to check the out the next time I'm working in FW.



Surprisingly, in an architectural forum, many people compare the values of properties without necessarily taking into account the value of the real estate itself.

I do not disagree that Neil P. seems to have a quality finish-out. Nicer than the Tower in many respects.
But a few things. The quality of the Tower finish-out is not bad. I am very happy with my unit. Number one rated appliances, thick quiet high quality glass, tasteful colors etc... But, we are really comparing apples to oranges. For example, if we compare a 300k unit in Neil P. with a 300k unit in the Tower, look at it this way. In the Tower, you are looking at a 100k condo on a 200k slab. In Neil P. you are looking at a 200k condo on a 100k slab. The Tower is more premium real estate. The Tower is in Sundance Square, Neil P. is not. The Tower is much taller with much better views, mostly with balcony's. (I am looking at the Court House and the Trinity River, for example.) The Tower is decades newer and has better parking included.

To exagerate my example, look at a 300k condo in Grand Prairie. Large. First class. On a 12k piece of real estate. The quality would make Neil P. look shabby.
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#92 David Love

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 10:06 PM

I toured the Tower model units, twice, and then moved into my unit and after hours and hours of nitpicking, from memory I thought the models look much better than my unit. Then again, I spent pretty much NOTHING on upgrades since I’m redoing everything myself, could have spent an extra $50,000.00 very quickly and possibly wound up with a unit that more closely resembled the model.

#93 vjackson

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 06:49 PM

Sorry if I offended anyone living in the Tower, but to each his/her own. It's just a matter of personal taste. I just wasn't at all impressed with the units I saw in the tower. I'm not sure I would even want to buy one if I had to spend a ton of my own money to make it look good. I'm going to wait until they finish the Metropolitan here in Dallas. It's also a glass highrise office tower, being converted to condos. From what I've seen so far, it puts the tower to shame, but I'll save my opinion until I see the finished product.

#94 Brian Luenser

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 11:04 AM

QUOTE(vjackson @ Jan 20 2006, 08:49 PM) View Post

Sorry if I offended anyone living in the Tower, but to each his/her own. It's just a matter of personal taste. I just wasn't at all impressed with the units I saw in the tower. I'm not sure I would even want to buy one if I had to spend a ton of my own money to make it look good. I'm going to wait until they finish the Metropolitan here in Dallas. It's also a glass highrise office tower, being converted to condos. From what I've seen so far, it puts the tower to shame, but I'll save my opinion until I see the finished product.



Sounds pretty good, until you realize that you need to buy an extra bedroom for a security guard to walk around with you at 9pm in downtown Dallas. My wife and I missed the train to Fort Worth a few weeks ago. We walked around downtown Dallas for an hour waiting for the next train. It was a miserable hour. Thought about just setting my wallet down on the street as to say, "Come get it, and leave me alone!" Later that night, we were walking around downtown Fort Worth at midnight and could not have felt safer. Just friendly, smiling faces and cops.

Downtown Fort Worth in a Maytag box beats Downtown Dallas in a luxury condo. To me.
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#95 ramjet

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 04:55 PM

QUOTE(monee9696 @ Jan 21 2006, 12:04 PM) View Post

QUOTE(vjackson @ Jan 20 2006, 08:49 PM) View Post

Sorry if I offended anyone living in the Tower, but to each his/her own. It's just a matter of personal taste. I just wasn't at all impressed with the units I saw in the tower. I'm not sure I would even want to buy one if I had to spend a ton of my own money to make it look good. I'm going to wait until they finish the Metropolitan here in Dallas. It's also a glass highrise office tower, being converted to condos. From what I've seen so far, it puts the tower to shame, but I'll save my opinion until I see the finished product.



Sounds pretty good, until you realize that you need to buy an extra bedroom for a security guard to walk around with you at 9pm in downtown Dallas. My wife and I missed the train to Fort Worth a few weeks ago. We walked around downtown Dallas for an hour waiting for the next train. It was a miserable hour. Thought about just setting my wallet down on the street as to say, "Come get it, and leave me alone!" Later that night, we were walking around downtown Fort Worth at midnight and could not have felt safer. Just friendly, smiling faces and cops.

Downtown Fort Worth in a Maytag box beats Downtown Dallas in a luxury condo. To me.


I concur. I visited both cities recently. Downtown Dallas may look better on the horizon, but if you're looking for upscale, refined, and very hip urban living, Fort Worth beats Dallas hands down in my opinion. Living in a downtown area is only good if one feels safe. Fort Worth is much more comfortable that way. Sorry, VJackson, Fort Worth wins in the downtown cool place to live contest in DFW. By the way, my yankee friends up here in New York all think Fort Worth is much hipper than Dallas. For what it's worth....


#96 vjackson

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 08:12 PM

I didn't mean to turn my post into another tired old FW vs Dallas debate. I was only talking about the quality of a condo highrise. But if you want to go there, I visit FW often and although DTFW is clean and safe, I would never call it cool or hip. Matter of fact, there is nothing "cool" about FW. I just read that the AXIS is closing. This was a cool live music venue, and everytime I went to see a band play there, 80% of the audience was people from the Dallas area. FW didn't even support the place. The first time I went there, my friends and I said the place was way to cool for for FW and it seems we were right. FW simply has no real nightlife. Have you driven around town at 12am on the weekends. It's still a complete ghost town. Ofcourse you feel safe downtown. There are no real nightclubs. Just mediocre eateries and very run of the mill corporate bars. No places like Uptown, Oaklawn, Deep Ellum, Lower Greenville, or the up and coming Cedars area near South Lamar. DTFW may be clean and Disneylike, but it is nowhere close to hip.

#97 Juli

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 01:50 PM

There are a lot of places in Fort Worth that are very hip, I think you just have to be "cool" enough to know where they are. No offense intended. I think comparing Fort Worth to Dallas is like comparing Amsterdam to den Hague (the only other two cities I am familiar with living in). Fort Worth and Amsterdam are laid back cool. Dallas and den Hague are in your face cool.

#98 David Love

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 02:03 PM

Yes there are lots of places that are cool and hip, and Dallas might have a couple parts that would fall into that category. The problem with cool and hip is that few find it a desirable location to set up residence. I checked out most of the places you labeled “cool & hip” for possible residential purchase. I checked out primarily high rises and loft type structures, and nearly every location that would fit the C & H category, I.G. places with live venues close by, all of them seemed to show signs of the fans of C & H from the night before. Note that I visited all these locations on my days off, so it was either Saturday or Sunday. Exiting every prospective residence, stepping out onto street level I was greeted by the same overpowering stench of urine. Yup, they’re probably cool & hip on Friday or Saturday night, but when the sun comes up the hipsters are long gone and for good reason.

I’ll choose Disney Land any day of the week compared to the cool and hip alternative, perhaps it’s just me, but I think it just smells better.

#99 ramjet

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 01:15 PM

QUOTE(David Love @ Jan 22 2006, 03:03 PM) View Post

Yes there are lots of places that are cool and hip, and Dallas might have a couple parts that would fall into that category. The problem with cool and hip is that few find it a desirable location to set up residence. I checked out most of the places you labeled “cool & hip” for possible residential purchase. I checked out primarily high rises and loft type structures, and nearly every location that would fit the C & H category, I.G. places with live venues close by, all of them seemed to show signs of the fans of C & H from the night before. Note that I visited all these locations on my days off, so it was either Saturday or Sunday. Exiting every prospective residence, stepping out onto street level I was greeted by the same overpowering stench of urine. Yup, they’re probably cool & hip on Friday or Saturday night, but when the sun comes up the hipsters are long gone and for good reason.

I’ll choose Disney Land any day of the week compared to the cool and hip alternative, perhaps it’s just me, but I think it just smells better.


Sorry. I also did not mean to pick the Fort Worth vs. Dallas scab. Hip and cool in my book is not necessarily proximity to bars - it's about attitude and style and confidence - all qualities that can be ascribed to places as well as people. So in my opinion, the Neil P. and other downtown residential projects fit that bill. In fact, both cities' downtowns have qualities that obviously draw many visitors and residents for a variety of reasons. You all are fortunate to have so many options within easy driving distance... How's that?

#100 David Love

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 01:50 PM

I don’t think anyone takes offense to someone preferring Dallas over Fort Worth for what ever reason. I think it’s more the lack of correct information that warrants comment.

QUOTE
I just read that the AXIS is closing. This was a cool live music venue, and everytime I went to see a band play there, 80% of the audience was people from the Dallas area. FW didn't even support the place.


My question is obvious: Why are Dallas people coming to Fort Worth?

QUOTE
Have you driven around town at 12am on the weekends. It's still a complete ghost town.


I’m not sure what part of Fort Worth you’re hanging in at 12:00 AM on the weekends that resembles a ghost town, but from my vantage, the majority of folks I see out at that time are people standing in line to get in, or walking from one line to another. The smart ones arrived at 6:00 PM, parked, caught a movie, walked over to their restaurant of choice, which they made reservations at a week or two in advance. Enjoy a nice dinner, drinks and conversation with friends then about 10:00 or so you hit your clubs of choice because at 12:00 AM you want to be “inside” not outside driving around in circles.

QUOTE
No places like Uptown, Oaklawn, Deep Ellum, Lower Greenville, or the up and coming Cedars area near South Lamar. DTFW may be clean and Disneylike, but it is nowhere close to hip.


Right back to the first question: With all these great places, why are Dallas people coming to downtown Fort Worth?






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