Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Trinity Railway Express


  • Please log in to reply
101 replies to this topic

#1 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 18 August 2006 - 09:56 AM

I did a pretty thorough search to find an existing thread about the TRE, and other than discussion about the southwest extension I didn't find anything so I thought I would start a catchall thread for info about the TRE.


TRE plans to begin using biodiesel fuel
By GORDON DICKSON
STAR-TELEGRAM STAFF WRITER

The red, white and blue locomotives of the Trinity Railway Express soon will go Earth-friendly green.

The commuter rail line co-owned by the Fort Worth Transportation Authority will switch to a low-emissions biodiesel fuel by September, TRE chief Pete Sklannik said Thursday.

For two weeks, TRE tested a blend of 80 percent petroleum diesel and 20 percent vegetable diesel on a locomotive making daily runs from Fort Worth to Dallas. "There was no decline in propulsion or economy," he told the T board.

TRE's operator, Herzog Transit Services, learned this week that it could obtain enough biodiesel to power its fleet at the same cost as the usual fuel.

Even an 80-20 biodiesel blend can reduce the hydrocarbons linked to cancer, smog and ozone by 50 percent to 80 percent, industry experts say.

TRE will be one of the nation's first commuter lines to use biodiesel.


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#2 lens314

lens314

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 92 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Fort Worth
  • Interests:Airplanes, Cars, Computers, LEGO

Posted 18 August 2006 - 02:30 PM

QUOTE(AndyN @ Aug 18 2006, 10:56 AM) View Post


TRE will be one of the nation's first commuter lines to use biodiesel.


Neat, I wonder if the trains exhaust gonna smell like fast food now :)
-Doug

#3 RD Milhollin

RD Milhollin

    Surrounding Cities Moderator

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,560 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Haltom City

Posted 18 August 2006 - 11:15 PM

QUOTE(lens314 @ Aug 18 2006, 03:30 PM) View Post

QUOTE(AndyN @ Aug 18 2006, 10:56 AM) View Post


TRE will be one of the nation's first commuter lines to use biodiesel.


Neat, I wonder if the trains exhaust gonna smell like fast food now smile.gif


That would be better than smelling like diesel.

#4 ghughes

ghughes

    Senior Member

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 314 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:University West

Posted 19 August 2006 - 05:30 AM

QUOTE
Neat, I wonder if the trains exhaust gonna smell like fast food now smile.gif


Could repaint the trains to look like big french fries!

#5 safly

safly

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,069 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ALAMO!
  • Interests:Restaurants. Golf. Garlic. FIESTA. Beer ME.

Posted 19 August 2006 - 06:26 PM

Or TWINKIES!!! YUM.

Great idea there. Have McD's paint those suckers up and subsidize the TRE program through advertising. maybe even Oscar Meyer or Kielbossa brand sausages. YUMMY!
COWTOWN! Get your TIP ON!
www.iheartfw.com

#6 FoUTASportscaster

FoUTASportscaster

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 362 posts

Posted 17 October 2006 - 12:20 AM

Edit:wrong place

#7 Brian Luenser

Brian Luenser

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,048 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Downtown Fort Worth

Posted 02 August 2008 - 04:44 PM

Long time since there was a post to this Topic. (Not including the posts to "TRE on Sunday", which has been the catch-all for this train.
I love the Train. Yes it is fast. (70mph, not 270mph) Yes it is comfortable. Surely more comfortable than the cheap furniture in my condo. Nicely heated and air conditioned. Upstairs and downstairs. You can set your watch be the timely schedule it follows. (Don't be late, they will just waive to you as they pass. As it should be.) Upstairs has tables and big windows. My GPS works great. How else am I supposed to know how fast I am going, how fast it accelerates, my altitude and the yen conversion rate? (I may have exaggerated about that currency rate thing.)

For 5 bucks you can go to Dallas and back, and ride every train and bus in Dallas and Fort Worth for the full day! That's right, for the price of a single gallon of gas, nearly. And they say it really costs 5 bucks to start your car.

I rode the train today from Arlington back to Fort Worth when my wife and I were in Arlington this morning and she realized she needed to go to Dallas to visit a Friend. I had her drop me off at the Centerport station on her way, and for a 3 buck ticket I am home. One of the best uses of the train. Spur of the moment change of plans.

This is my little slide show of my train ride today.

http://flickr.com/ph...508666881/show/

.
www.fortworthview.com

#8 jefffwd

jefffwd

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,493 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 03 August 2008 - 06:19 AM

Great shots - thanks for sharing. Is that you on the platform in the beginning?

#9 Brian Luenser

Brian Luenser

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,048 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Downtown Fort Worth

Posted 03 August 2008 - 07:30 AM

QUOTE (jefffwd @ Aug 3 2008, 07:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great shots - thanks for sharing. Is that you on the platform in the beginning?



Thank you. And no, not me. That would have been a great idea tho. Should of had my wife take a picture of ME buying my ticket when she dropped me off... but then I guess I would have gotten tired of everybody telling me how much I look like Brad Pitt. newlaugh.gif
www.fortworthview.com

#10 Recyclican

Recyclican

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bryan, Texas (formerly Arlington)
  • Interests:Urban Planning, Conservation, Sustainability, Transit-oriented-Development, Historic Preservation.<br /><br />Hiking, camping, reading, BBQing, photography, traveling

Posted 28 September 2008 - 06:33 PM

TRE to add more cars for additional service times (and more trains on Saturdays): http://www.star-tele...ory/938892.html

Watch for Trinity Railway Express schedule changes beginning Oct. 6. Rush-hour and evening trains will be added on the popular Fort Worth-to-Dallas line.

New Dallas-bound train
* Leaves CentrePort 4:35 p.m. weekdays and arrives at Union Station at 5:05. With the addition, there will be 26 eastbound trains Monday through Friday.

New trains to Fort Worth
* Leaves CentrePort at 5:22 a.m. weekdays. Arrives at Intermodal Transportation Center at 5:54.
* Leaves Union Station at 7:15 a.m. weekdays. Arrives at CentrePort at 7:45.
* Leaves Union Station at 11:45 p.m. weekdays. Arrives at CentrePort at 12:15 a.m.

With the additions, there will be 27 westbound trains weekdays.

Also, Saturday service will be added to improve Fort Worth bus connections — for a total of 12 westbound and 11 eastbound Saturday trains — including a new train that leaves CentrePort at 7:25 a.m. and gets to the Intermodal Transportation Center at 7:56 a.m. Another train leaves Union Station at 11:45 p.m. and gets to CentrePort at 12:16 a.m.

The TRE doesn’t operate Sundays.

#11 cbellomy

cbellomy

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 651 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Meadowbrook

Posted 28 September 2008 - 09:36 PM

QUOTE (Recyclican @ Sep 28 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The TRE doesn’t operate Sundays.


I noticed that today when I got last-minute seats to the Cowboys game. I wanted to take TRE to the South Irving stop and then shuttle over to the stadium. Seemed sensible enough. Alas, no.

I think the absence of a rail corridor to the new stadium is something that will need addressing sooner rather than later.


#12 Brian Luenser

Brian Luenser

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,048 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Downtown Fort Worth

Posted 01 November 2008 - 07:50 AM

Foto's of this Mornings TRE inbound just before sunrise.


I think I see a bit of Fall peaking through on this November 1, 08 shot.


Ya gotta love tunneling through this very old building rather than removing it.

www.fortworthview.com

#13 Templeofheaven

Templeofheaven

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 58 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:76102

Posted 01 November 2008 - 11:11 AM

Beautiful pics Monee! Maybe you can post another for the same spot (where first pic was take) a week later just to show how the fall season progresses! smile.gif

#14 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 575 posts

Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:35 PM

I agree, those are beautiful photos of the TRE.

I have a mix opinion about bio-diesel. It's great to reduce green house gases somewhat, but is it worth increase food costs? Last year America increased use of bio-fuels 70%, up to 8% of all fuel uses. Bio-fuels consumed 30% of all the grain produced in America last year. The result was the price of food grains increasing 300%. Great for the farmers, but I'm not so sure it was great for the consumers.

#15 RD Milhollin

RD Milhollin

    Surrounding Cities Moderator

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,560 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Haltom City

Posted 16 March 2009 - 10:10 PM

QUOTE (Electricron @ Mar 16 2009, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree, those are beautiful photos of the TRE.

I have a mix opinion about bio-diesel. It's great to reduce green house gases somewhat, but is it worth increase food costs? Last year America increased use of bio-fuels 70%, up to 8% of all fuel uses. Bio-fuels consumed 30% of all the grain produced in America last year. The result was the price of food grains increasing 300%. Great for the farmers, but I'm not so sure it was great for the consumers.


Yeah, and several economic studies have indicated that the "true" cost of bio-fuels is much higher than proponents tout due to the amount of fuel needed to produce the crops in the first place, including petro fertilizer and pesticides. Bio-fuels feel good, but they are not the answer.

#16 Jamie

Jamie

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 58 posts

Posted 05 August 2009 - 01:54 PM

I was just looking over the September 14 schedule change and noted a few things:

1. All trains will now stop at Victory/American Airlines Center for an across-the-platform transfer to the new DART Green Line trains to Deep-Ellum, Baylor Medical, and Fair Park

2. The Fort Worth to Dallas schedule is now less than an hour, despite the fact that all trains will now stop at the American Airlines Center

3. Even with 8/9 stops, I believe that the schedules are now faster than the Rock Island "Rocket" trains (from the old Santa Fe station) and the Burlington "Zephyr" trains (from the T&P station) during their peak. Perhaps some of old timers in this forum can confirm(?)

4. Local morning trains extended from Hurst-Bell to Richland Hills

5. Several trains extended from Centreport to Fort Worth

6. Finally, an early morning week-day departure from Dallas Union Station (although not quite early enough for employees who need to be at the airport by 6:30AM) sad.gif

It appears that all the recent capital projects are finally paying off. I've also heard the TRE will run on Sundays (using a Saturday schedule) - but only during the State Fair and the Main Street Arts Festival. Nothing in writing yet though.

Weekday: http://www.trinityra...sep14_2009.html
Saturday: http://www.trinityra...sep14_2009.html


#17 RD Milhollin

RD Milhollin

    Surrounding Cities Moderator

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,560 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Haltom City

Posted 05 August 2009 - 03:02 PM

All good news, thanks

#18 UncaMikey

UncaMikey

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 154 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 05 August 2009 - 08:18 PM

Good information, thanks for posting. I need to remember to bookmark this, because we leave town later this month via TRE and DFW on the old schedule and return on the new.


#19 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 575 posts

Posted 06 August 2009 - 04:43 PM

TRE speeds increase, schedules and fares change
http://www.pegasusne...nd-fares-change

The infrastructure improvements that have been underway on the Trinity Railway Express are about to pay off at last. Effective September 14, new schedules will be implemented, with the TRE winding up faster and more versatile than before.
Among the changes: several trains that previously ended at CentrePort Station will be extended to Downtown Fort Worth; all TRE trains will now stop at Victory Station on the regular schedule, as Victory Station will no longer be a “special event only” station; and even with the addition of Victory Station to the regular schedule, the TRE is faster -- the run between Fort Worth and Dallas will now be down to just under an hour, despite the extra stop.
Along with the schedule changes, September 14 brings some fare changes. Among the changes: a Regional Day Pass (previously called the Premium Day Pass), which is a one-price pass that allows riding the TRE, T buses, and DART light rail & buses, will now be $7.50, up from $5.00.

New Weekday time schedules
http://www.trinityra...sep14_2009.html
24 eastbound trains, and 26 westbound trains every day. (Total=50)
New Saturday time schedules
http://www.trinityra...sep14_2009.html
13 eastbound and westbound trains every day. (Total=26)
Old and New Fares
http://www.trinityra.../fares2009.html



#20 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 575 posts

Posted 21 August 2009 - 11:38 PM

TRE to run Saturday schedules on Sunday during the State Fair.

Advanced State Fair Discount Tickets with a DART Pass
The DART/State Fair Combo Ticket is $16 (value of $19 and only available at participating Kroger Food Stores beginning September 1, 2009).

http://www.dart.org/...r/statefair.asp

#21 Brian Luenser

Brian Luenser

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,048 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Downtown Fort Worth

Posted 22 August 2009 - 10:54 AM

QUOTE (Electricron @ Aug 22 2009, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
TRE to run Saturday schedules on Sunday during the State Fair.

Advanced State Fair Discount Tickets with a DART Pass
The DART/State Fair Combo Ticket is $16 (value of $19 and only available at participating Kroger Food Stores beginning September 1, 2009).

http://www.dart.org/...r/statefair.asp



Really good news. I have been saying for years, as soon as I can take a train to Fair Park, I will go to the State Fair. (And not like the past where I would have to take the TRE to Dallas and the an icky Dallas bus to the fair. And on Sunday drive all the way) I am excited about the new Green Line in Dallas.

I'm going to the Fair for the first time in a decade!
www.fortworthview.com

#22 FoUTASportscaster

FoUTASportscaster

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 362 posts

Posted 25 August 2009 - 06:23 AM

I guess this kinda shoots the story that Sunday service is impossible because of track maintenance out of the water.

#23 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 575 posts

Posted 25 August 2009 - 07:57 AM

QUOTE (FoUTASportscaster @ Aug 25 2009, 07:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I guess this kinda shoots the story that Sunday service is impossible because of track maintenance out of the water.


Not really. Track maintenance on Sunday is only deferred or delayed by a few Sundays.



#24 FoUTASportscaster

FoUTASportscaster

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 362 posts

Posted 26 August 2009 - 07:52 AM

So you are saying they are going to go 1 month without maintaining a thing? Try again. Somehow DART rail runs 7 days a week from 5a to midnight and they manage to maintain tracks and cantenary wire, yet the TRE, with runs freight trains on their maintenance day, needs a whole day to do the same amount of track with no overhead wire?

I think the "they don't run on Sundays because of track maintenance" story was made up by somebody not affiliated with DART, The T or TRE. Likely, the real reason they don't run on Sundays is the lack of ridership demand. Hence, during the State Fair, there is demand and now there is service.

#25 RD Milhollin

RD Milhollin

    Surrounding Cities Moderator

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,560 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Haltom City

Posted 07 September 2009 - 11:30 PM

Gordon Dickson's summary of several changes coming to the TRE soon, real soon. Of course readers of the Fort Worth Forum already knew this...

Trinity Railway Express to Have Faster Service, Cost More

http://www.star-tele...ry/1593930.html
Posted Monday, Sep. 07, 2009
By GORDON DICKSON

gdickson@star-telegram.com

FORT WORTH — The Trinity Railway Express is speeding up train service from Fort Worth to Dallas, and riders who don’t get to the station on time may be left behind.

Along with the speedier schedule, fares will increase. A TRE day pass — a full-fare regional pass, good for all buses and trains in Tarrant, Dallas and Collin counties — will cost $7.50, up from $5. The cost of monthly and yearly passes will also increase as the Fort Worth Transportation Authority and Dallas Area Rapid Transit, the TRE’s co-owners, seek to cover a larger share of their operating costs. (Detailed fare information: www.the-t.com).

The changes take effect Monday, along with connections to a new Dallas light rail line that will take visitors directly to Fair Park.

The new timetable has shorter wait times between stations, making it possible to ride the length of the TRE line in 55 to 61 minutes, depending upon the time of day. That’s about seven minutes faster than the old schedule. TRE employees are spreading the word to passengers that the trains will be on such a tight schedule that they’ll no longer wait for stragglers.

"One of the conductors told me they’re going to go New York-style," said Jamie Terrell of east Fort Worth, who rides the TRE to his job at American Airlines headquarters near the CentrePort/DFW Airport Station. "It just reflects the reality of our time. They’re trying to squeeze as much efficiency as they can."

It’ll be a bit of a cultural shift for TRE, which began serving Dallas County in 1996 and was extended to Fort Worth in 2001. Until now, TRE operators have been known to hold up the train while latecomers finished parking their cars or fumbling for change at ticket machines.

Victory Station

TRE will also make regular stops at Victory Station near American Airlines Center in Dallas, where passengers will be able to transfer to the new DART Green Line.

TRE trains now stop at Victory Station only immediately before and after events at the arena.

The Green Line will connect Victory Station to Deep Ellum, Baylor University Medical Center and Fair Park.

Having a rail transfer center at Victory Station will help hotels, offices and other nearby businesses attract employees, DART spokesman Morgan Lyons said.

"Developers are looking for that kind of influx of activity, with two rail lines," Lyons said.

Howdy, folks . . .

The opening of the Green Line will return passenger rail service to Fair Park after a 53-year absence, Lyons said.

As a result, it will now be easier than ever for Tarrant County residents to visit the State Fair of Texas, which opens Sept. 25, without the hand-wringing process of trying to park in south Dallas.

Instead, Tarrant residents can buy a day pass at any TRE station, ride the train to Victory Station and transfer for free to the Green Line, which will drop them off at the fair’s front door.

The TRE will even run Sundays for the four weeks of the fair.

Bang for the buck

What made the speedier schedule possible is the completion of a second set of tracks along many parts of the TRE line, including in Richland Hills, T President Dick Ruddell said. Double tracking creates more room for eastbound and westbound trains, which reduces delays and allows the T and DART more flexibility in setting a train schedule.

T officials don’t expect major problems as riders adjust to the new schedule — and get used to the emphasis on speed, spokeswoman Joan Hunter said.

"It’s like being in the big leagues," she said. "As the service matures, one of the things that changes is the trains get faster. It’s about keeping the trains on schedule and reliable, like a commuter train should be."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New transit service The Fort Worth Transportation Authority will hold two public meetings to answer residents’ questions about service changes on T buses and the Trinity Railway Express.
The meetings will be noon and 5:30 p.m. Thursday at the Intermodal Transportation Center, 1001 Jones St. in Fort Worth.

Bus service changes — including discontinuation of Route 40 from east Fort Worth to Richland Hills Station — take effect Sunday. TRE changes are effective Monday.

Source: Fort Worth Transportation Authority

#26 Brian Luenser

Brian Luenser

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,048 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Downtown Fort Worth

Posted 16 February 2010 - 08:20 PM

I posted this picture as part of my "Snow day" post last Friday. Since then, somebody else pointed out how my train picture has a great spray of snow blowing from it. I cropped the picture and post again. (A classic case of cropping a pic to change the them) Not a black and white picture but pretty stink'n close to one...


www.fortworthview.com

#27 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,921 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 06 June 2010 - 02:53 PM

A Star-Telegram article last week mentioned that Richland Hills was thinking about having another election to decide on dropping out of the Fort Worth Transportation Authority system. If they do, The "T" stated they would shut down the Richland Hills station and that the TRE trains would go right through the city without stopping. They also stated that the city would still owe money to The "T" for station and infrastructure improvements that have not been paid off. Richland Hills claims it is not getting much return for its investment into the system.

I would hate to see them drop out because that is a very popular station and quite a number of people who ride the TRE might not do so in the future because of the closure of the station. I'm also concerned about the amount of money already put into the improvements at that station that might be wasted if the city votes to opt out of The "T".

#28 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 06 June 2010 - 03:29 PM

There is no destination in Richland Hills, to my knowledge. Perhaps they need to encourage some Transit Oriented Development.
Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#29 Dismuke

Dismuke

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,038 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth
  • Interests:Late 19th/early 20th century history, popular culture architecture and music. Collecting 78 rpm records from the 1900 - 1930 era.

Posted 06 June 2010 - 04:52 PM

QUOTE (John T Roberts @ Jun 6 2010, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would hate to see them drop out because that is a very popular station and quite a number of people who ride the TRE might not do so in the future because of the closure of the station.


But I wonder how many of those riders actually come from Richland Hills - as opposed to, let's say Hurst, North Richland Hills, Watauga, Haltom City and parts of Northern Fort Worth. Those commuters might use the Richland Hills station - but they don't pay into the Richland Hill's portion of the T taxes except when they shop in Richland Hills, which is probably pretty infrequently.

My guess is that the TRE is pretty much the ONLY T service that gets any respectable amount of use from Richland Hills residents. Let's face it, with or without bus service, Richland Hills is NOT a good place to live without an automobile. And if you have an automobile - well, unless one just has absolutely nothing else to do with one's time and one's life, taking the bus verses driving one's self to wherever one needs to go makes no sense at all. On the other hand, if one works in downtown Fort Worth or, most especially, downtown Dallas, riding the TRE instead of driving a car can make sense in that it avoids traffic delays and parking hassles/expense.

Thus, if residents of Richland Hills decide not to pull out - it is probably entirely on the strength of the existence of the TRE station. Most probably couldn't care less about the bus service. And claims that transit might somehow provide economic benefits for the city in the future would probably fall on deaf ears as well. The city is landlocked and pretty much already developed out. It is a sleepy little bedroom community with little ability and, I am sure, little ambition to become anything other than that.

So my guess is that there is a very strong possibility that the threat to close the station is just that - a threat that is being made with the hope that it will influence the outcome of the election.

Let's say that residents do decide to pull out. If it ever becomes a fait accompli would it make sense for the T to actually follow through on that threat if doing so would result in lower ridership and, thus, lost fares? Hurst is not a member of the T nor is it a member of DART. Yet, apparently, The T and DART have decided it is in its best interest to have a station there. My guess is that most people who use the Hurst station do not live in member cities. And my guess is that the TRE is more than happy whenever people from non-member cities nevertheless show up and pay to use the trains.

So once the threat of closure is no longer something that can be used to possibly influence the outcome of an election, what sense would it make to actually go through with it? If some Richland Hills residents continue to use the service - well, how is that any worse and make them any more than alleged "freeloaders" than someone who currently rides it and lives in North Richland Hills or Hurst? If ridership from outside the member cities somehow becomes regarded as a problem, seems to me that the best way would be to raise fares and make those who reside or work in member cities eligible for discounted fares.

I would suggest that downtown Fort Worth and downtown Dallas are far greater beneficiaries of the the Richland Hills station than are most residents of Richland Hills (most of whom probably never use the thing) in that it helps give both downtowns a certain competitive advantage over other employment centers such as Las Colinas, North Dallas, Collin County, etc. As far as I can see, even without Richland Hill's sales tax money, it makes no sense to close it and either lose the traffic or go through the expense of building a replacement station elsewhere.
Radio Dismuke
1920s & 1930s Pop & Jazz
24-Hour Internet Radio
www.RadioDismuke.com


#30 David Love

David Love

    Skyscraper Member

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,735 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Downtown Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, gothic structures, Harley Davidsons, active with Veterans Affairs. Making things out of wood and carbon fiber.

Posted 06 June 2010 - 05:55 PM

The station seems like something you'd find just on the edge of a city, a destination for those in rural areas or smaller towns farther out making a long commute to the city to park, ride, and work. The station creates a lot of commuter traffic in the area, not that I've tracked commuter shopping traffic there, I've never seen anything but people getting off and getting into their cars and queuing up to leave and go home, maybe they're going some place close to shop but I doubt it. Have they built any new shops or apartments close by recently?

It could be a TCC artery of sorts.

Better Business Bureau:  A place to find or post valid complaints for auto delerships and maintenance facilities. (New Features) If you have a valid gripe about auto dealerships, this is the place to voice it.


#31 Jamie

Jamie

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 58 posts

Posted 07 June 2010 - 02:09 PM

QUOTE (David Love @ Jun 6 2010, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...I've never seen anything but people getting off and getting into their cars and queuing up to leave and go home, maybe they're going some place close to shop but I doubt it. Have they built any new shops or apartments close by recently?
It could be a TCC artery of sorts.

There is a McDonalds and a gas station on the other side of the freeway from the train station. I occasionally walk over from the train station and get breakfast or a bottle of juice before getting on the train and I've seen other people do that from time to time.
The few times I've taken the Route 41/Richland Hills bus it's been to destinations across the city limits from Richland Hills such as Northeast Mall, Office Depot, and Freeman Toyota (across the freeway). I'll agree with one critic in that the transit service takes residents *from* Richland Hills to spend their tax dollars in other cities. However, it's not a problem caused by transit. Motorists do the same thing by driving to other cities to buy thinks. Transit makes a convenient scapegoat, but attacking it will do nothing to solve the fundamental problem of limited sales tax generation in Richland Hills. There's virtually no retail of any kind for us to spend our tax dollars on in Richland Hills even if we wanted to do so.

#32 Jamie

Jamie

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 58 posts

Posted 07 June 2010 - 02:19 PM

QUOTE (Dismuke @ Jun 6 2010, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...Hurst is not a member of the T nor is it a member of DART. Yet, apparently, The T and DART have decided it is in its best interest to have a station there...


Bell Helicopter donated the land for the station. I believe they also fund the Route 31 shuttle bus that circles the plant from the Hurst Bell station during rush hours.


#33 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,893 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 07 June 2010 - 05:39 PM

I believe that both NRH and Hurst have joined the Fort Worth Transportation Authority ("T") if for not only to be apart of the SWNE Commuter Rail Corridor. Bell Helicopter Textron is along State Highway 10; the Fort Worth Mapsco puts the Bell Helicopter Plant in far East Fort Worth. I don't know which jurisdiction, Fort Worth or Hurst has taxing rights...however, it appears that the Hurst/Bell Station may actually be within Fort Worth allowing for the "T" to have placed a station there.
"Keep Fort Worth folksy"

#34 Keller Pirate

Keller Pirate

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 873 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Keller

Posted 08 June 2010 - 09:57 PM

I agree that the Hurst/Bell station is in Ft Worth. I don't believe either NRH or Hurst have joined the T. Even Grapevine, which has helped with funding for the SWNE rail line with a small sales tax is not a member of the T. They have some designation like a contracting partner, or something along that line. Other cities on the line that want stations will probably contract, not join the T.

The turnout for the election will most likely be very small and I predict a toss up as to the outcome. According to the paper Richland Hills had a get out of the T election before and the T prevailed. I do feel that the Richland Hills station benefits Ft Worth and Dallas, possibly more than Richland Hills.

#35 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,893 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 09 June 2010 - 11:46 AM

QUOTE (Keller Pirate @ Jun 8 2010, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree that the Hurst/Bell station is in Ft Worth. I don't believe either NRH or Hurst have joined the T. Even Grapevine, which has helped with funding for the SWNE rail line with a small sales tax is not a member of the T. They have some designation like a contracting partner, or something along that line. Other cities on the line that want stations will probably contract, not join the T.

The turnout for the election will most likely be very small and I predict a toss up as to the outcome. According to the paper Richland Hills had a get out of the T election before and the T prevailed. I do feel that the Richland Hills station benefits Ft Worth and Dallas, possibly more than Richland Hills.


Thanks for the clarification surrounding the FWTA membership. As for Richland Hills, I have always believed they missed a golden opportunity to develop a new civic/retail complex at the Richland Hills/TRE station when the station was being proposed. Imagine the enormous visibility along Airport Freeway for RH had they done so. Even now, it is not too late to do something of the sort there if they were to think along those lines. Then and only then would RH begin to gain comparable benefits to those benefits gained by Fort Worth and Dallas.
"Keep Fort Worth folksy"

#36 FoUTASportscaster

FoUTASportscaster

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 362 posts

Posted 09 June 2010 - 04:43 PM

Let me help clarify some misconceptions and add some opinions.

QUOTE (Dismuke @ Jun 6 2010, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thus, if residents of Richland Hills decide not to pull out - it is probably entirely on the strength of the existence of the TRE station. Most probably couldn't care less about the bus service. And claims that transit might somehow provide economic benefits for the city in the future would probably fall on deaf ears as well. The city is landlocked and pretty much already developed out. It is a sleepy little bedroom community with little ability and, I am sure, little ambition to become anything other than that.


In any cost benefit analysis, one must look at everything. Let's say that Richland Hills residents use transit at the regional average (which isn't likely since the regional average includes every city without transit service). Then that means roughly 150 residents use the system. What is the cost of moving those people over to another mode? What is the cost of moving the transit dependent? What is the cost of moving those without the ability to use a car? Even Arlington has a handitran service for that.

Second, Richland Hills has a higher daytime population that resident population, indicating a decent working population. Before I began graduate school I did a comparison of those cities with a transit sytem and the size of their daytime populations to those without. A brief, non-statistical analysis indicated that transit cities have higher daytime populations than those without. That makes sense now, as the academic literature has shown that cities with transit service have a lower cost of doing business. As an example, compare the price of a combo from Whataburger on I-30 in Fort Worth to one that is in Frisco. The farther one will usually have a higher price and some of that is attributable to the fact that wage payments are higher. Some of that is that the farther out ones do not have the same pool of applicants to choose from (My current research project is a statistical analysis of this phenom).

Since Richland Hills has a large industrial population, I would suspect that there are a lot of low wage workers who use the service, not just the TRE. Cutting out T service could cause the cost of business to rise and even possibly relocations.

QUOTE
Let's say that residents do decide to pull out. If it ever becomes a fait accompli would it make sense for the T to actually follow through on that threat if doing so would result in lower ridership and, thus, lost fares? Hurst is not a member of the T nor is it a member of DART. Yet, apparently, The T and DART have decided it is in its best interest to have a station there. My guess is that most people who use the Hurst station do not live in member cities. And my guess is that the TRE is more than happy whenever people from non-member cities nevertheless show up and pay to use the trains.


But the thing that you don't know is that Arlington, Grand Prairie and HEB have an agreement to pay the TRE on the percentage of riders who come from their city. THis press release mentions the possibility. Those cities are paying into the system, but not outright.

http://dart.org/news/news.asp?ID=27

Plus is does make sense to cose the station. The per passenger operating subsidy the sales tax covers for the TRE is in the $6 dollar range ($6.57 FY '07). Without the sales tax covering the station operation, the fares cover a portion. Fewer riders may ride, but fewer cars and employees need to be used per train, leading to an overall savings.

QUOTE
I would suggest that downtown Fort Worth and downtown Dallas are far greater beneficiaries of the the Richland Hills station than are most residents of Richland Hills (most of whom probably never use the thing) in that it helps give both downtowns a certain competitive advantage over other employment centers such as Las Colinas, North Dallas, Collin County, etc. As far as I can see, even without Richland Hill's sales tax money, it makes no sense to close it and either lose the traffic or go through the expense of building a replacement station elsewhere.


I think you'd be surprised at the number of people who do use it for jobs within Richland Hills.

QUOTE (Jamie @ Jun 7 2010, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'll agree with one critic in that the transit service takes residents *from* Richland Hills to spend their tax dollars in other cities. However, it's not a problem caused by transit. Motorists do the same thing by driving to other cities to buy thinks. Transit makes a convenient scapegoat, but attacking it will do nothing to solve the fundamental problem of limited sales tax generation in Richland Hills. There's virtually no retail of any kind for us to spend our tax dollars on in Richland Hills even if we wanted to do so.


Pat of the problem lies with the city and part is that it is what it is.

Leaving it as purely a park and ride limits what can be done here. If the city allowed, through zoning, retail near the edge, then that solves some of the problem.

As being what is is, commuter rail does not offer the same kind of TOD incentive that heavy and light rail do. In New York, the trains run every 3-5 minutes in rush hour and every 20-30 minutes overnight. They deliver people at regular intervals at all hours of the day. In Dallas, the light rail delivers people in certain section every 2.5 mintes during rush hour in downtown Dallas on 3 lines. It runs from 5am to midnight, delivering people at all hours of that period. Commuter rail, on the other hand runs every 20 minutes in rush hour and every hour in non-peak. That doesn't deliver people at all hours of the day and makes TOD less desireable.

QUOTE (renamerusk @ Jun 7 2010, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe that both NRH and Hurst have joined the Fort Worth Transportation Authority ("T") if for not only to be apart of the SWNE Commuter Rail Corridor. Bell Helicopter Textron is along State Highway 10; the Fort Worth Mapsco puts the Bell Helicopter Plant in far East Fort Worth. I don't know which jurisdiction, Fort Worth or Hurst has taxing rights...however, it appears that the Hurst/Bell Station may actually be within Fort Worth allowing for the "T" to have placed a station there.



QUOTE (Keller Pirate @ Jun 8 2010, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree that the Hurst/Bell station is in Ft Worth. I don't believe either NRH or Hurst have joined the T. Even Grapevine, which has helped with funding for the SWNE rail line with a small sales tax is not a member of the T. They have some designation like a contracting partner, or something along that line. Other cities on the line that want stations will probably contract, not join the T.


Correct those aren't members of the system, but they do pay a fee out of the general budget, usually only a few hundred thousand dollars (only? ha)

QUOTE
The turnout for the election will most likely be very small and I predict a toss up as to the outcome. According to the paper Richland Hills had a get out of the T election before and the T prevailed.


Yes, this has been done before, second verse same as the first. In Feb. '04, residents decided 725-360 to keep the T service.

#37 BlueMound

BlueMound

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 930 posts

Posted 08 July 2011 - 04:26 PM

Connecting the TRE to Union Pacific tracks in West Fort Worth

Saw this quote at the end of an article about the T&P Warehouse.

It is the last paragraph.

Link to article

Edited by John T Roberts, 10 July 2011 - 09:23 AM.
We don't quote any text from published articles.


#38 johnfwd

johnfwd

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,974 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:southwest
  • Interests:Running, bicycling, bowling, nightclub life, science, technology.

Posted 14 July 2011 - 10:43 AM

Connecting the TRE to Union Pacific tracks in West Fort Worth

Saw this quote at the end of an article about the T&P Warehouse.

It is the last paragraph.

Link to article


Here is a quote from the FAQ section of the TexRail website:

"Will the line be a single track or double track?
The T is working with existing railroads to share existing tracks, which would mean most of the route would operate on a single track. It is likely there would need to be a second track added for passing ability, and to meet schedules for both passenger and freight traffic. Double tracks also will be needed at stations."

This appears to be the Trinity Railway Express's general policy regarding track acquisition.

#39 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 575 posts

Posted 17 July 2011 - 01:15 AM

Extending the existing TRE tracks at the T&P Station westward along the UP corridor to the FWWR corridor is needed, or the future TEX (SW2NE Commuter Rail) would have to end there. This land really isn't needed for the TRE as much as it is needed for TEX.

#40 RD Milhollin

RD Milhollin

    Surrounding Cities Moderator

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,560 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Haltom City

Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:50 PM

Article in S-T recaps 17 years of TRE service, current ridership slump, and even quiet discussion of increases in service, even possibly Sundays. I wonder if the TRE board members read the Fort Worth Forum  :rolleyes:

 

http://www.star-tele...ay-express.html



#41 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,310 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:54 PM

I sort of wonder if a bit of advertising would help a bit. DART is in the news quite a bit, everyone knows it exists. TRE doesn't nearly have the reach of DART lines, but I don't think it is as well known. Maybe because I don't live anywhere near a station, but few people I know realize they can take a train from FW-D for 10$. 

 

If I can just say, this picture is particularly good advertising in terms of just pure imagery. 

And of course, I'm sure adapting to what the people want (more rush hour trains, shorter waits) would be helpful to. 



#42 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,893 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:35 PM

Article in S-T recaps 17 years of TRE service, current ridership slump, and even quiet discussion of increases in service, even possibly Sundays. I wonder if the TRE board members read the Fort Worth Forum  :rolleyes:

 

I, for one, find it curious that the Star Telegram would publish a story about declining ridership, a topic that has been current lately in the Forum....Hmmmm?

 

Of course, on second thought, the catalyst for numerous topics discussed in the Forum frequently originates in the Star Telegram.



#43 Not Sure

Not Sure

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 200 posts
  • Location:NRH

Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:36 PM

I wonder if adding coaches to the trains would work to add capacity without having to increase train frequency. I can't imagine any further increase in frequency as it is now, unless trains were added before and after peak hours. Is there some limitation with the equipment that prohibits anything more than four coaches and one locomotive per train? The platforms seem long enough to accommodate more than that.



#44 johnfwd

johnfwd

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,974 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:southwest
  • Interests:Running, bicycling, bowling, nightclub life, science, technology.

Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:31 AM

With my car out of service, I rode the TRE from Fort Worth to Dallas and back not long ago.  Nice stress-free ride and in less than an hour!  But I'm afraid I'm too addicted to auto travel--because of its greater independence of movement and convenience--to be a regular TRE person (and I don't have to go to Dallas often, thank heavens).  BUT if we ever have an extensive inner-city train network I might become a convert.   



#45 Electricron

Electricron

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 575 posts

Posted 31 October 2013 - 10:09 PM

I wonder if adding coaches to the trains would work to add capacity without having to increase train frequency. I can't imagine any further increase in frequency as it is now, unless trains were added before and after peak hours. Is there some limitation with the equipment that prohibits anything more than four coaches and one locomotive per train? The platforms seem long enough to accommodate more than that.

Excellent question, the GO trains servicing Toronto using the same equipment as the TRE, run 10 car trains behind their F59 locomotives. GO runs 12 car trains behind stronger locomotives the TRE doesn't own.  I think that limit is based more on keeping acceptable time schedules than what the locomotive could push or pull. 

The Bombardier cars are basically 85 feet long, therefore you would need at least 850 feet long platforms to accommodate a 10 car train.

I'm sure most TRE platforms aren't that long. 

Platform length (approximate) at TRE stations:

T&P = 500 feet [good for 6 cars]

FWITC = 500 feet  [good for 6 cars] (Note Amtrak platform up to 1300 feet) 

Richardson Hills = 390 feet  [good for 4 cars]

Hurst/Bell = 390 feet  [good for 4 cars]

Centerport/DFW = 425 feet  [good for 5 cars]

I'll leave the measurements just to Tarrant County.

 

Of course, a train can make multiple stops at a station to allow boarding and un-boarding more cars. That would effect the scheduling of the train.



#46 Not Sure

Not Sure

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 200 posts
  • Location:NRH

Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:33 AM

 

I wonder if adding coaches to the trains would work to add capacity without having to increase train frequency. I can't imagine any further increase in frequency as it is now, unless trains were added before and after peak hours. Is there some limitation with the equipment that prohibits anything more than four coaches and one locomotive per train? The platforms seem long enough to accommodate more than that.

Excellent question, the GO trains servicing Toronto using the same equipment as the TRE, run 10 car trains behind their F59 locomotives. GO runs 12 car trains behind stronger locomotives the TRE doesn't own.  I think that limit is based more on keeping acceptable time schedules than what the locomotive could push or pull. 

The Bombardier cars are basically 85 feet long, therefore you would need at least 850 feet long platforms to accommodate a 10 car train.

I'm sure most TRE platforms aren't that long. 

Platform length (approximate) at TRE stations:

T&P = 500 feet [good for 6 cars]

FWITC = 500 feet  [good for 6 cars] (Note Amtrak platform up to 1300 feet) 

Richardson Hills = 390 feet  [good for 4 cars]

Hurst/Bell = 390 feet  [good for 4 cars]

Centerport/DFW = 425 feet  [good for 5 cars]

I'll leave the measurements just to Tarrant County.

 

Of course, a train can make multiple stops at a station to allow boarding and un-boarding more cars. That would effect the scheduling of the train.

 

 

I didn't know if the locomotives had the HEP necessary to haul more than four coaches or not (weren't Amtrak's F40PHs limited to 6 coaches?). Anyway, it sounds like that's not an issue, but as you point out, the platform length is. In that case, it seems like some platform construction is in order. 



#47 RD Milhollin

RD Milhollin

    Surrounding Cities Moderator

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,560 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Haltom City

Posted 01 November 2013 - 09:58 AM

I would like to see some discussion about some true express trains during the day, with stops tentatively at ITC, Centerport/DFW, and Union Station only. I believe that once the entire route is double-tracked this would be doable with only slight adjustments to the existing schedule. Having fewer stops would make the trip much faster, and limiting these stops to key transfer points would make it more practical to a different passenger class than weekday-daily commuters. 

 

Putting more passenger cars on trains during peak rider period makes perfect sense, and lengthening the platforms mentioned above would seem to be easy enough once there is a budget for it. I believe (I am sure I will be corrected if wrong on this) that fewer cars are run on trains during lower use periods, and this also makes perfect sense. I strongly favor Sunday trains, and if these had fewer cars than during weekly-daily commute times that would be fine. Same feeling goes for an early train to the airport; some flights leave as early as 6:00 AM so passengers and the many employees needed to support those flights are potential users of the train. Even at that early hour passengers need to arrive 60-90 minutes before departure, so arrival at the airport by 5:00 AM at the latest would be needed. Is this practical. It might be interesting to see the results of studies already conducted for this sort of service.



#48 John S.

John S.

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 563 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Samuels Avenue FW

Posted 01 November 2013 - 11:38 AM

Just some anecdotal information: we had a guest fly in from Santa Rosa, CA a few weeks ago for a 3 day visit. (his first to the DFW area) After his redeye late flight the night before, in the morning we visited some local sites...he was kind of a foodie type so we had to go some distance to find some authentic Czech style Kolaches (sweet pastries) near the Alliance corridor. Later that afternoon (around 4:30 PM) an impulsive decision was made to take the TRE to Union Station in Dallas because our guest was intrigued with the Nov. 22, 1963 Kennedy tragedy at Dealey Plaza and keenly wanted to visit the site in person. It was the first time any of us had taken the TRE and it was a pleasant ride. At least when we were there, it was not particularly crowded.

 

However, finding a parking space near the Intermodal Center was problematic. It seems the day rates end at 6 PM with night rates and tow-away warnings for those not paying for night parking posted everywhere. No attendants were there to allow us to pay for the night hours and since it was unlikely we would return before 6 PM we had a problem. After paying for parking that we didn't use in the Park America spaces,(around $8 as I recall) we decided it would be wise to move the car and parked a second time opposite the Intermodal center along a city metered space and put the maximum coinage allowed to hopefully put us past 6 PM cutoff when free parking became available. The digital parking meter machine oddly stopped adding time well before the posted maximum coinage limit (wasted 50 cents) much to our dismay, but we crossed our fingers there would not be a parking ticket on our windshield when we returned. The trip to Dallas and back went very well, our appreciative guest took lot of photos of Dealey Plaza (just a short walk away from Union Station in Dallas) and we returned enjoying the ride back as well as being much relieved we did not find a parking ticket on our vehicle when we returned. Just as DFW Airport has longer term parking, so should the Intermodal Center so folks leaving Fort Worth in the afternoon for an evening in Dallas won't have worries about parking tickets or worse, being towed, when they return. After this first TRE ride I'd certainly be open to using it again as driving to downtown Dallas and trying to find parking there is challenging most of the time. We sat on the TRE car's upper deck and found the TRE seating as comfortable as on any airplane ride-I was pleasantly surprised and pleased with the whole experience. It would be nice, as noted above, if connecting bus or Dart connections could be easily made so a personal vehicle would be entirely unnecessary. While that seemed possible on the Dallas end, I don't believe it would be on the Fort Worth side. For Fort Worth to fully become a world-class city better public transportation (including streetcars or light rail) will have to be in place.



#49 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,565 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:22 PM

Did you not realize that you could have gone down the block and parked at the T&P Station lot on Vickery for free?



#50 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,893 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 02 November 2013 - 06:38 AM

..... Just as DFW Airport has longer term parking, so should the Intermodal Center so folks leaving Fort Worth in the afternoon for an evening in Dallas won't have worries about parking tickets or worse, being towed, when they return.....

 

Seriously..an evening in Dallas; why?

 

Fort Worth over anyone.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users