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#1 Lach

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Posted 22 May 2004 - 01:54 PM

I'm looking to move to downtown FW soon and I understand that the 30 units of Houston place lofts are going to be renovated and sold. I was wondering if anyone had been inside the building or had any opinions on it as a place to live.

#2 Shocker

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 05:29 PM

It's been a few years since I've been there. I have a friend who lived there for about 2 years and liked living there. The parking garage is rather tight but the nice thing is you park very near to your unit so it's not a long walk. The views weren't bad. My friends place had the kitchen and restrooms located in the center of the floorplan with the living/dining/bedroom areas wrapping around peripherally.

#3 cberen1

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 09:07 AM

Another thing to note is the Hyde Park issue. It could make the surrounding area nicer (although it will cut down on available parking for visitors.

I toured the apartments a year or two ago and thought they were fairly nice. I guess it's all a matter of price.

#4 Fire-Eater

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 10:23 AM

Nice coffee shop downstairs!
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#5 Jeff T

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 03:33 PM

I lived there for one year (Jan 2003 to Dec 2003, apt #702) and learned quite a bit about the place..

1) Hope you get quiet neighbors.. I believe the walls are constructed of 2-ply rice paper. You can hear EVERYTHING.. The LARGE cracks where the drywall meets the brick walls dont help either.

2) in the span of 1 year, I had my car broken into twice, and vandalized once. My car stereo was stolen in the two break-ins (once with the face-plate taken off!!) and everyone one the 7th floor got all their windows smashed out during the vandalism.

3) If anything breaks in your apt, learn to live with it. maintenance is non-existant. my story: The windows in the place are storm windows, and somehow condensation got trapped between the layers. I couldnt see out of 6 of my 8 windows. My first request (of many) to get this fixed was in March 2003, and it still had not been fixed by December.

4) I rented the apt. in January 2003 because I was ASSURED by Jan 2004 the apts would go on sale. I understand that as of today they are still not selling. My fault I suppose for not getting this in writing. I got tired of throwing away $1000 a month on the hope that one day they would decide to sell.

anyhow.. just my experience.... your mileage may vary.

#6 safly

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 04:34 AM

I'm looking to move to downtown FW soon and I understand that the 30 units of Houston place lofts are going to be renovated and sold. I was wondering if anyone had been inside the building or had any opinions on it as a place to live.

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Hello, I live in the penthouse structure of the Houston Place Lofts. This building structure and end of town is a JOKE! Rick O'Sheas bar is cool though. Texadelphia looks to be running itself in the ground, and the coffee shop is... there. At roughly over $1.05/ sq.ft in rent a month. It is not worth it, except for the convenient business office address and write-offs (sq./ft.). MY complaint list is quite lenghty in maint., mgmt., and structure. Our electric bill will fluctuate from $200-$400/ month during the late spring/summer months, for a "1590 sq.ft" unit. The views are decent, on a clear night. Rooftop is bare and poorly structured for sound, venue, and thermo. No true view of Dallas skyline, N. Texas is flat anyway. ugly lookin CC next to. Sorry excuse of a Mexican restaurant, Mambo's, will blair their music during the mid-week after hours for most of the year. Wind HOWLS endlessly and unmercifully throughout the winter/spring, rattling the chimney atop the "double-wide" in the sky, as I and many guests now call it. SIDENOTE: Penthouse is and will be the only unit with a fireplace. This will be the joke of an apt. turned condo, when it is all said and done. Pales in comparison to all the REAL renovations going on now in downtown elsewhere and in the future. The owners, BDRC, have asked for roughly $200-300/sq.ft for all the floor units below level 8, we are in 9. One fool got one for $150 +, and it is less than 900 sq.ft., facing a firescape, gov't building, and grackel infested shrubs on Throckmorton St. No other sales since then, and they have been on the market since Jan. 04. We rented thinking they would try to convert to condo in 3 yrs. (2006-7), like every other tennant before us thought. They must have been waiting to get the big money in for a while, and then pay for the non-English speaking (know for a fact) workers to start the conversions with our rent. The materials and equipments are low-grade at best. Satellite TV set-up and results are sub-par. External and internal structural problems are quite apparent to this day, 9 years after it was renovated for apts. They have not issued an appraised "market" value for level 8 or 9, since the tennant meeting. Some sources tell me they want $500,000 for my spot, + HOA. Most people we talk to about that quote think they are SMOKING and not sharing the "good stuff" herb with the rest of the tennants. Ain't gettin $$$ jak from me, or anyone else in their right frame of mind. BTW, place is infested with bats, especially in the pricey Houston ST. frontage loft units and facade. Bat crap litters the sidewalks after a nice rain, SMELLY and mushy. They cannot be exterminated, according to some TX activist groups and former tennants. Grackels and pigeons make a lovely mess and noise to boot.

As far as the FW housing market in downtown district, I'd wait for the market to mature it's way into a TRUE market value. All this downtown living is ALL HYPE, it will stil be the same old small scale convention town with same old corp. chain restaurants, theatres and bars the day after you buy, and for a long time. I would not pay for anything more than $100/sq/ft for a downtown unit w/ any "view" of E or W. You have to buy with the mind set that you can make profit in leasing it out and still cover the mortgage, propt. taxes and not to forget tha clincher, HOA fees. Downtown FW is more of an investment property market, not primary residential living. Too many use FW as a stepping stone to work their way into other job markets and other consumer markets to run a business in. High turn-over is the effect to the problems in this town that the city does not wan to muck in. Our money has to go somewhere.

It's not a primary residential market to buy in. That is why we will and have only leased here inside I-30 and I-35 and along the Trinity (Downtown scope) and for good reason. It's not like Chicago w/ a lake view or Sears tower view or Soldier Field/ Wrigley, get the picture. Like I said, won't be for a LONG TIME. One of the big problems here is that there is ONE family name that comes to mind that runs the show here, BIG PROBLEM. I don't care how much big corp. philantropy they hide behind. They are a nuisance to many. Secondly, Distr. 9 and other city council folks, all have their head in the sand, and duck Q's from residents who pay for their TIF act gambles and expenses. Thirdly is that the job market cannot and has not sustained into an attracting market, even for a downtown. Fourth and most important to me, the "Mexican" food is appauling here in downtown. And that Joe T circus is right there with it. I wouldn't feed the birds this stuff down over here, fearing their guts would explode all throughout downtown, after a lenghty bout with vomiting. So I would think before you sign, and def. don't think or sign with BDRC at the Houston Place Lofts. Oh, BTW, my truck got broken into also, and management did nothing about it, nor were they PROACTIVE in getting "Alright" Parking to improve their business responsibilities for the garage. Totally avoidng the security breach issues to this date.

Well, GL in finding a nice place to live, would not suggest it here. FW really needs to get their act together on this inflated "market" that the B-1 Towers is trying to promote and trickle on. I've been to and lived in great cities that have REAL downtown markets, like LA and Chicago, and my hometown of San Antonio. Fort worth is about 15-20 years from that. It has it's charm, but for living in this low-paying and low-hiring market, it's not justified in price. Won't be for another 10-15 years. I would strongly consider Schamburg's (architect) new plans for future dev., he carries a more progressive approach in this town, heard he has plans for something BIG along the Trinity near the new Pier 1. Worth the wait, worth getting in early on. BYE now, BUY later!
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#7 redhead

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 09:29 AM

Whoa, safly!! I think you are totally wrong, but don't have time to respond appropriately at this minute. If you think downtown RE is going to get less expensive, you just wait yourself right out of the pricerange...as plans for TRV become more solidified, land prices are only going up, and construction costs with them...You'd be smarter to buy today and ride the appreciation, but that's just what I think.

#8 safly

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 12:41 PM

Whoa, safly!!  I think you are totally wrong, but don't have time to respond appropriately at this minute.  If you think downtown RE is going to get less expensive, you just wait yourself right out of the pricerange...as plans for TRV become more solidified, land prices are only going up, and construction costs with them...You'd be smarter to buy today and ride the appreciation, but that's just what I think.

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The bubble will burst soon. I would wait, say 7-15 years. It's all cyclical anyways. Compare the downtown FW RE market to other big city markets, it is absolutely embarassing at the rate these developers and RE moguls marginalize their properties for. Downtown SanAntonio and Chicago has cheaper for sale and rental rates/sqft than downtown FW, and have more to offer in pop., business, entertainment, CMV (Consumer Market Value) than FW as a whole will ever achieve in the next 25 yrs. FW is a town with high turnover rate, hence only 500,000 people living here for quite some time. In TX, San Antonio is the hot market for RE w/ 1.6million and growth to from the NW to NE, Austin is reving up again too centrally and suburbs. Being part of the metroplex but not taking bold moves keeps FW lagging beind. Go ahead and ride out your apprec. and see what you can get when you have a family of 3.25-4, or want a better paying job, lower sales tax, and etc. A century 21 rep. on CNBC's Kudlow and Kramer responded to a Q saying that the avg. condo in DALLAS will go for about $140,000, home for $180,000. Downtown livingin FW is not all that, it is the same old every week, same acts at B-Hall, same eateries, same pretentiousness, the TRV is great but will only bring visitors who want to "swim" or be around a murkey brown water trail, no seview like in Boston, no pier boardwalks like in Santa Monica, no lake or hill country scene like Austin, or riverwalk pizazz like in San Antonio. And the downtown districts in those respective areas are not even there highest growth districts these days.

Again, these properties are way over appraised and the city has not shown anything to gain from it, but more RE. Arlington has the C-Boys, Dallas has the NBA and NHL, Frisco has the TRUE minor league system and the MLS team, not to mention an IKEA slated to come in. IF the downtown Dallas market starts to open up as anticipated, much to my dismay it will kick downtown FW in the teeth when it comes to property value. Big money is here in FW, but I think this is the old money's last desperate attempt to squeeze all they can in an uncertain market for now, but it beats the returns they are getting in stocks, oil, and such. It is rediculous that people are willing to pay their mortgage on a rate that is 65-90 % and sometimes even 100 +% of an actual per sq.ft rental rate going for now, for the next 10 yrs. in your view and 15-20 yrs. in my view, conservatively. I would go the interest only payment route if allowed in that case. But haven't heard anyone offering.

Sorry, but I still think it is infinately more economical to buy the whole darn building than pay an exhorbant amount of jak for 1/200ths of the building in my opinion. TRV property will outgain, outperform, and out demand downtown scope property easily once it is all said and done, so why would I buy into a piece of central downtown now when TRV will add more supply in RE options down the road for a much fairer and true open market. That is why rumors are circulating that the BIG family wants out on a lot of downtown commercial RE and head due S near the freeway or N near the TRV scope, and of course gobble up like "rich "people do. So that is my theory as a downtown resident observer who is not ooed and awed to the details of many projects to come, especially with HPL that I am living in now.
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#9 clintonaxa

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 07:29 PM

safly, i think a better way of getting your point across would be to lay off the fort worth insults. we all love fort worth here, and i believe most of us would be more apt to listen to your comments if they were not so derogatory. just a thought. (oh, and i love joe t's)

#10 safly

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 08:01 PM

safly, i think a better way of getting your point across would be to lay off the fort worth insults.  we all love fort worth here, and i believe most of us would be more apt to listen to your comments if they were not so derogatory.  just a thought.  (oh, and i love joe t's)

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You love Joe T's! You probably love them Aggie's too. I am sorry you all felt so enraged by my honesty. I've forgotten how THIN skinned people are up here in N.Texas. I though it stopped in Austin, geez. Many people agree on my stance, sorry they do not chat in your forum. In a way I do love Fort Worth, I mean they are trying here, you no taking a lil of the book from San Antonio. We encourage that, but if you think that sight of a "Tower" on Throckmorton St. is something awe inspiring and original, and worth it's pricing then you do not know architecture. Area electricians are starting to say that they are using sub-standard wiring in there? You would think that if TIF money were involved there would be some oversight into it. But, as expected in politics, we won't be seeing that until after the fact. As for that reflecting pond at the Modern M that got everyone feeling so proud to have "art" here in FW. Already been done, about 12 yrs. ago in someones suburban Chicago backyard, by the same Japanese architect. And that fiasco that took place at the "City" Water Gardens, after the tragedy. When are the people representing us going to step up and show some gut around here. Where is the intrigue, the innovation, you know why does all of Sundance Square look like Sing Sing. Red brick all over, some even fauxe brick, painted to mimick what? Red brick. Well, I guess if your stuck with it, you gotta love it too. One reason is that there are some people who want it that way and they are themselves or position others to seat in these development comm's, and signage compliance boards. Before you know it, you have your head spinning trying to just put a business sign up the way THEY like it here in downtown, on your dime.
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#11 redhead

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 10:04 PM

The bubble will burst soon. I would wait, say 7-15 years. It's all cyclical anyways. Compare the downtown FW RE market to other big city markets, it is absolutely embarassing at the rate these developers and RE moguls marginalize their properties for. Downtown SanAntonio and Chicago has cheaper for sale and rental rates/sqft than downtown FW

Yes, those of us that have been in it a year or two know that it's cyclical. But when you have a pent up demand and very little supply, most of the formulas go out the window. So why does Chicago have cheaper for sale and rental rates (assuming that you are correct)? Because there was a HUGE amount of over-conversion to condos which led to a glut of product---and most of that is NOT in downtown, but the outlying growth areas north along the Gold Coast. You may talk to us like we are all imbeciles, but some of us Forumers work nationally. As for SA, there is still no real housing downtown, today right? Some coming online, but the best urban housing that city has to offer in my opinion is Choice Homes new townhomes in the medical district.

And your assertion that downtown is not the highest growth rate---for what period of time? Since the Tower opened or the last census was taken? 300 units compared to ZERO starts before--a huge percentage jump.

As for typical cycles, they are about 7 years. We are almost eleven years into a seven year cycle which would predict doom and gloom for the tract builders with no redeeming features. However, the law of supply and demand prevails regardless of cycles----and they just are not making any new downtown, river-accessible, river-viewable, Sundance-walkable property any more. So again, I will stand firm that the prices will rise. Print this post and write me n a year.

Edited by John T Roberts, 21 February 2005 - 10:06 PM.


#12 safly

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Posted 22 February 2005 - 10:12 PM

The bubble will burst soon. I would wait, say 7-15 years. It's all cyclical anyways. Compare the downtown FW RE market to other big city markets, it is absolutely embarassing at the rate these developers and RE moguls marginalize their properties for. Downtown SanAntonio and Chicago has cheaper for sale and rental rates/sqft than downtown FW

Yes, those of us that have been in it a year or two know that it's cyclical. But when you have a pent up demand and very little supply, most of the formulas go out the window. So why does Chicago have cheaper for sale and rental rates (assuming that you are correct)? Because there was a HUGE amount of over-conversion to condos which led to a glut of product---and most of that is NOT in downtown, but the outlying growth areas north along the Gold Coast. You may talk to us like we are all imbeciles, but some of us Forumers work nationally. As for SA, there is still no real housing downtown, today right? Some coming online, but the best urban housing that city has to offer in my opinion is Choice Homes new townhomes in the medical district.

And your assertion that downtown is not the highest growth rate---for what period of time? Since the Tower opened or the last census was taken? 300 units compared to ZERO starts before--a huge percentage jump.

As for typical cycles, they are about 7 years. We are almost eleven years into a seven year cycle which would predict doom and gloom for the tract builders with no redeeming features. However, the law of supply and demand prevails regardless of cycles----and they just are not making any new downtown, river-accessible, river-viewable, Sundance-walkable property any more. So again, I will stand firm that the prices will rise. Print this post and write me n a year.

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Redhead,
All the action in d-town vicinity Chicago is happening S of Evanston/Winnetka along Lake Shore Dr., Wacker, and Michigan Ave. towards 2miles S beyond Soldier Field (Brownstones conv.) to GreekTown and Western towards the Kennedy or Dan Ryan, maybe Comiskeyand Chinatown area. The REAL action and RE value jumps are taking effect in suburbs of Chi-town, like Arlington Hts., Palatine, Chevy Chase area, Deerfield, and etc. San Antone is converting the Arts distr./BlueStar area, King Williams, Alamo Hts., I-10/Huebner towers, Wurzbach and Medical area are also converting. The real push is NW of town outside the 1604 loop, near UTSA and of course all the way the 281 N near Sonterra Parkway and CClub to BulverdeCo., still. Yes, there are many condo conversions, which I believe FW will mimick come the next 4 years. So, def. worth waiting to get in on the action up to about 10 yrs. More supply will then meet or exceed demand, leveling the market. Remember, 75% of the people buying into downtown RE are only looking to turn it into cash flow, in a quick fashion. RE investors are not too savvy in these parts, and for good reason, it is just to new and volatile. The FW job market is sub-par in comparison to both Chicago and nearby San Antonio. So I cannot see the TRV and them Cowboys in Arlington and Bass Hall really attracting BIG money and mass population shifts to center city.

Something bigger has to magnetize us for many of years. We don't have the venues, museums, sports teams, restaurants, schools, party life, population shifts, golf courses, and resorts like the beforementioned cities do. Basically, you have to be willing to pay the rates now, which are primary residence rates in more populous cities, and be willing to raise a family in those units. Hence 3.5 people I believe the index is now a days. Do people really look forward to raising a family in downtown? Not like it's Manhattan pricing , but it isn't MANHATTAN, period. I think the 30/40 something crowd is still romancing over the "Friends" urban culture. No Central Park, no Broadway, no top-shelf dining life, ZERO celebrities, paparazzi, and the PIZZA here (like $$$ Uno's), faawgit about it. Your demographs that appeal to these D-town living rates are: retirees, 10 years to retirements, divorcees (like in Dallas), trust fund children (age 21-34yo), and young professionals ( 25-45yo). It is not an entreprenuers slice of heaven over here, though DFW tries to push that notion. And it is not silicon valley yet and everything else that attracts that W.Coast money, innovation, a scene, and steady good paying job market(s). So with that in mind, do you really believe that those 30 somethings professionals who have the money to buy, look forward to buying now at this price, knowing of the real estate risks in waiting for a decent return, and knowing that downtown is not for now ideal to raise even a small family here?

Thinking that the majority of this demograph would want to start a family pretty soon. Do you really think that they will see a positive or even decent return on their investment, when 1000's of other units will start popping up all around d-town in the next 10 years? Nope, people looking later are gonna want the next, the latest, and greatest best thing coming to town. Heck, for all I know the shift for exciting loft life, condo's, and urban dwelling in general may shift towards Arlington(a major Professional Sports Complex), and there is past evidence in other markets that would support that theory/notion.

Now for the TFund kids, well they aren't too satified these days anyways with what d-town has to offer in entertainment, jobs (like they need it), and market clientele, in anticipation that they will open up some entert. venue/business here in downtown. The RE market both comm./res. are way too inflated, parking is a disaster and carteled, the night scene is dead from Sun/Mon. til Wed. so steady business is not ideal, and there is no "6th street" oriented allure . People aren't willing to sell there buildings to them just yet, that is why a number of dev. and architects are building from the ground up in other outlining areas of South, East, and West of SSquare/downtown and the river, much like Mid-town project, Schambourg's projex, the Bluffs, and 7th street West. So what is the appeal factor worth, not the rate that is set now. Hence, the hype. I may be mistaken but you come across as someone who has valued interest in this RE market, say an agent or realtor of some sort? So you would have your reasons to be confident, it's your sell appeal. I as a downtowner am not. The Tower is scheduled to open up in 1 month now and 98%+ of inner d-town rentals (apts. and lofts) are still booked up. What does that tell you? Firestone has high occ. rate booked, Amli the same, 7th Str. ditto. So here is what will be moving into the Tower and buying into this market.....Retirees.

Now as a business owner and consultant,I for one am a little shaky about creating something in any industry to meet with the Retirees demands in majority. I know that they will be looking to make a returnable investment (they are not here for too long). They travel well, in a niche way, create trust and estate value. They have disposable income, but have a conservative slant in their offering or decisions on where to go and spend. So I see a downtown catered to the older crowd, a bit safe albeit stale venue (Luby's, IHOP, and Del Frisco's). I see Bass Hall doing OK, steady. The symphony being seperate from the Hall will still struggle, because we can't push more exciting and youthful acts in town to sell out crowds, ala Caravan of Dreams. You will not see much trendy clothing retail, because Leddy's is not the answer, it's too touristy. They have not moved in yet to support that theory, and Pier 1 has moved out. Mikado and Pourhouse, fun places now and then have been rumored to move out, upon their landlords wishful buyout (takeover). The Tower has not even attempted to notion of any new or trendy retailer or business to anchor the bottom levels. What does that tell ya? Besides, their pool area looks way to small, I've seen it.

The best thing the Tower should have done is move a 24 HR fitness gym right smack in the middle of the Tower on floors 5-8/9 facing east. There you would guarantee a constant nationally recognized comm. tennant, you know DFW Inc. and TLC love a corp. tennant with a good teck record. Just think, you are some 24 HR fitness member and you are visiting d-town for a week, you want a nice workout facility within walking distance, there it is. Pump up, shower up, then hit the town! It would have given more leverage to push their sq.ft pricing and bring in a more youthful, healthy, and vibrant res. tennants, along with the other demographs. Nothing against older folks, but I have my doubts on them sustaining a downtown market hoping to boom. As for the about to be retirees, I am sure they are just looking to pay off their existing mortgage and move to some resort city, perhaps travel more. Buying d-town RE and being able to do that is not likely to be so affordable. TY!
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#13 cberen1

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 12:32 PM

safly,

I don't think you should be so timid in your answers. Go ahead and throw your opinions out there. Be bold and confident! Speculation and conjecture are a lot like facts and research and as such are often interchangeable. Cut loose, give 'em all you've got. :)



I'm just kidding around with you. Don't take it too seriously.

#14 safly

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 03:41 PM

safly,

I don't think you should be so timid in your answers.  Go ahead and throw your opinions out there.  Be bold and confident!  Speculation and conjecture are a lot like facts and research and as such are often interchangeable.  Cut loose, give 'em all you've got. :wub:


  Well, like in RE, it's all speculative. But in FW, especially with the d-town scope, it seems more HYPE? FWST is all behind it too, haven't seen any articles outlaying the negatives of d-town living. What happened to journalistic objectivity in this town. Oh, yah, Knight Ridder and "friends" own em. Let's improve on this town like most cities do, not just build something new and claim it will prosper all of FW, when it does for an elite few perhaps. We need something that drives tourism, conventions, and POPULATION as a whole. The Tower is not the answer, nor are all of these other "Johnny Come Lately" residences. What drives San Antonio, Chicago, Los Angeles, and TX in general? Diversity, Cultural experiences, excellent schools, good paying jobs, mass market appeal, and entertainment. Sorry, but the Vienna Choir Boys don't do it for a lot of people out here, plus they are out of season, hence a one night show. Van Cliburn is appealing, but only to a small interested few, we need to change that. Let's bring in these names like Herbie Hancock, Manilow, Lionel Richie, and maybe even Norah Jones to play accompanied WITH THE SYMPHONY. Speaking of Norah J.,  which proves my point in that she was FROM here and where is she now? Far far away. We need our Choirs, our Symphony, and our Multi-Cultural sects to be promoted OUTSIDE our boundaries or market, well outside. It can happen and it should happen. You can't market the Tower to someone in Tokyo! The Modern to someone in Paris or germany, or a TRV to someone in Italy. You can market the Stockyards, but get some great acts in there, consistently. You can market a Willie N. Festival, some new spa resorts, clay shooting, horse back riding, and maybe a good rib-eye once in a while, because that has worked for some of my foreign friends before.

  I really do like this TOWN, and it is very safe, but people are getting way over their heads in this RE game. We at the city know the population shift is NW to W within FW, it usually is for most cities. ;) So let;s get a grip on what the response will be when people aren't willing to move out from the suburbs of FW to d-town FW, well who is going to pay these exhorbently priced (TX standards) condo's and lofts? How is the city going to attract that demograph, that MONEY?  :) Arlington is already doing it, and I wouldn't mind buying up some land across from 6 flags, The Ballpark, and the new Cowboy Stadium. I am sure to instantly sell-out my tennant occ. in the first week for a TRUE HIGH RISE, they have the attractions, the view of both Dallas and FW skylines, and what we Texans all love, pro sports. Not to mention it is close to DFW and Love, minutes from Dallas for more shopping and FW for..... horse back riding along the TRiver. So there you have it, you see it as a FW thing, I see it as a METROPLEX thing. Preciate the input.


I'm just kidding around with you.  Don't take it too seriously.

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#15 safly

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 03:47 PM

safly,

I don't think you should be so timid in your answers.  Go ahead and throw your opinions out there.  Be bold and confident!  Speculation and conjecture are a lot like facts and research and as such are often interchangeable.  Cut loose, give 'em all you've got. :wub:



I'm just kidding around with you.  Don't take it too seriously.

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I like your humor. Quick and to the point. :)
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#16 grow_smart

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 05:50 PM

Arlington is already doing it, and I wouldn't mind buying up some land across from 6 flags, The Ballpark, and the new Cowboy Stadium. I am sure to instantly sell-out my tennant occ. in the first week for a TRUE HIGH RISE, they have the attractions, the view of both Dallas and FW skylines, and what we Texans all love, pro sports. Not to mention it is close to DFW and Love, minutes from Dallas for more shopping and FW for.....

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Safly - you've done nothing but blow smoke the last couple days - and done nothing but contradict yourself. I think you've made some decent points - but Fort Worth isn't Manhattan, it isn't Chicago, and it isn't Dallas. It's unique in it's own way. If you think CBD RE is too expensive, then don't live here. There are plenty of SF homes along IH-35W for you. and plenty of MF in Arlington along 360. or some townhomes at Southlake Town Center. or ranchettes in Parker County. It's called supply and demand.

BUT - YOU LOST ALL CREDIBILITY WITH ME WITH YOUR STATEMENT ABOVE ABOUT ARLINGTON. What are you talking about? 10 years later, you still can't walk to a bar after a Rangers game. Even Houston has something nearby (although it isn't anything to talk about). The Cowboys will have a nice HKS designed stadium surrounded by a sea of parking. I agree - you can probably make $$ as a developer in the area, but what would you be creating? Nothing special.

Don't get me wrong - I actually enjoy reading your rants. But when you don't seem to be making any sense, it comes across that your just bitter about your place at HPL. Just my $0.02.

Although I won't do this, here's a recommendation for other forum mebers - if you don't want to continually read this junk, just click on 'ignore user's posts' and move on.

#17 safly

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 06:44 PM


Arlington is already doing it, and I wouldn't mind buying up some land across from 6 flags, The Ballpark, and the new Cowboy Stadium. I am sure to instantly sell-out my tennant occ. in the first week for a TRUE HIGH RISE, they have the attractions, the view of both Dallas and FW skylines, and what we Texans all love, pro sports. Not to mention it is close to DFW and Love, minutes from Dallas for more shopping and FW for.....

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Safly - you've done nothing but blow smoke the last couple days - and done nothing but contradict yourself. I think you've made some decent points - but Fort Worth isn't Manhattan, it isn't Chicago, and it isn't Dallas. It's unique in it's own way. If you think CBD RE is too expensive, then don't live here. There are plenty of SF homes along IH-35W for you. and plenty of MF in Arlington along 360. or some townhomes at Southlake Town Center. or ranchettes in Parker County. It's called supply and demand.

BUT - YOU LOST ALL CREDIBILITY WITH ME WITH YOUR STATEMENT ABOVE ABOUT ARLINGTON. What are you talking about? 10 years later, you still can't walk to a bar after a Rangers game. Even Houston has something nearby (although it isn't anything to talk about). The Cowboys will have a nice HKS designed stadium surrounded by a sea of parking. I agree - you can probably make $$ as a developer in the area, but what would you be creating? Nothing special.

Don't get me wrong - I actually enjoy reading your rants. But when you don't seem to be making any sense, it comes across that your just bitter about your place at HPL. Just my $0.02.

Although I won't do this, here's a recommendation for other forum mebers - if you don't want to continually read this junk, just click on 'ignore user's posts' and move on.

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You should really try to consider living up to your username. Think outside the box. We all know the CBD is not like Manhattan's, Austin, or Chicago, or LA, even SA. So why try to sell the land at such a high assuming rate, before any other properties were even on the market. Define a True Market Value in that respect? Others d-town and near the Upper West side apts. agree. Do you really think you can sell me on the "views" from the Tower as being so , when only 8-12% of the whole thing has a decent view to sell on. People are now stuck with what they bought into, thanks to the hype, from that out of towner developer and his squad. FW has no"A' game yet, so why pay an "A" game price. The best views at the Tower are from the P-houses and 2 floors below, that's it.

I was asked to buy a unit direcly by the owner on floor 23 or 27 within 3 mnths after they began construction. He had told me then that he just got word of what is going on with the TRV and Schambourg's plans near the Pier 1, and HE wants out. He also assumed because of where I live, I would be interested and could afford moving on up, and pay alittle bit more per month on an unbreakable mortgage. The Electric building PH and top 5 floors have much better views of the Tower and surrounding areas. My current place has a better view of E and N than most who will be paying more on a mortgage on floors 6-18,20 of the Tower. When people move into their "high rise" units in floors 6-20, they will feel my pain, especially on the 3 non attractive directions of it. If the big push is for the TRV development, then why buy into the Tower, makes no sense, unless you are just filthy rich and don't give a adarn. Many people like myself don't have that kind of luxury at our expense, at least not yet. And many of people that you do want to push the nightlife here in DFW, don't have that luxury.

As for the Ranger's stadium, there is something big I am currently abreast with that will bring the Hick's and Jones Empire together alas. So you can walk to get your alocohol on, perhaps mingle with sports celebs, like the Yankees when they come in town, have a great meal for once in that area, cause Rawling's AA Grill is just ain't cuttin the mustard there(according to many). All I can say is HUGE footprint of a place, multi-platformed, plenty of lights, camera, action and backed by notable enititys in the MAJOR SPORTS WORLD, hint: like certain Entertainment and Sports Pro Network figures/individuals. We're bringin the best of Madison Ave. to town. Believe me, you heard it here, Arlington is coming to play and bringing it's "A" game. Only smoke that comes out of my mouth will occur at the Tobacco Lane on Main St., when the ink on the deal has dried. :o I like HKS and their involvement with aother sports venues, I just hope it's not all Bass Brick.
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#18 vjackson

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 07:24 PM

Although safly is all over the place, I must agree about the 24 hour fitness. That would have been a perfect fit for the tower or DTFW. Another thing, doesn't demand drive rates for these highrises. I live in Dallas and I think the prices for some of the new condos here are insane. But if people are willing to pay those prices, until the demand dies, those prices will continue to rise. You don't seem to like much about DTFW, but other people seem to love it and are willing to pay the prices that are being asked. That doesn't make them stupid or misinformed just because thier taste differ than yours.

#19 safly

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 08:20 PM

Although safly is all over the place, I must agree about the 24 hour fitness.  That would have been a perfect fit for the tower or DTFW.  Another thing, doesn't demand drive rates for these highrises.  I live in Dallas and I think the prices for some of the new condos here are insane.  But if people are willing to pay those prices, until the demand dies, those prices will continue to rise.  You don't seem to like much about DTFW, but other people seem to love it and are willing to pay the prices that are being asked.  That doesn't make them stupid or misinformed just because thier taste differ than yours.

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I am all over the place, hence the SA Fly. I have fin./ dev. interests both here and abroad, and I do not think the people in DTFW are stupid, by any means no. I would question their judgement or lack there of, when it comes to purchasing in this environmnet. Ditto on the 24 HR gym, but the city nor these new developers really think much outside the box, they do however are tunnel visioned to $$$ and the almighty TIF. Nothing wrong with that, you can live or die from it, it is a FREE society, unless you are taking outside pic's of buildings in d-town SS, which the "Lemonheads" have harassed & tried to stop me from doing for some reason? Look, I have heard quotes from notable figures in the RE industry, and they quote way beyond these prices in the metroplex as a whole. If people feel they are at peace with what they get, good for them, but caution has been thrown to the wind here and nobody really talks about it in an open forum, just casual conversations in bars, and the FWST will always push a "puff" piece here and there. Problems will arise, the projects are not perfect, and some people have and will feel hosed. DTFW is wonderful, it just has not satisfied many enough to flee from the suburbs and own a piece of "Texas Sky", as the Tower puts it. Would you buy into the Tower(I use as an example due to its notoriety) and sit on the mortgage for 10+ years as a 20 or 30 something yo? Especially when all going on with the TRV is shaped to take place. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR SHIRT! C'est la vie.
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#20 grow_smart

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 08:35 PM

I am all over the place, hence the SA Fly. I have fin./ dev. interests both here and abroad, and I do not think the people in DTFW are stupid, by any means no. blaaa blaa blaaa blaaa blaaa blaaa blaaa whine blaaa blaaa Would you buy into the Tower(I use as an example due to its notoriety) and sit on the mortgage for 10+ years as a 20 or 30 something yo? Especially when all going on with the TRV is shaped to take place. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR SHIRT! C'est la vie.

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Welcome to the forum - you rock. I hope you stick around and continue to post as FTW continues to evolve. Build us a cool little authentic Mexican place downtown to give us more options, and I'll be sure to frequent. I'll have to sip a ton of maragrita's to drown my sorrows during my 20's and 30's while I cry about my mortgage I got in exchange for my 76102 zip code.

And I wish Arlington luck with their stadium...maybe Kelo vs. New London will have something to say about that before the day is over. Should be interesting.

#21 safly

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 08:47 PM

Although safly is all over the place, I must agree about the 24 hour fitness.  That would have been a perfect fit for the tower or DTFW.  Another thing, doesn't demand drive rates for these highrises.  I live in Dallas and I think the prices for some of the new condos here are insane.  But if people are willing to pay those prices, until the demand dies, those prices will continue to rise.  You don't seem to like much about DTFW, but other people seem to love it and are willing to pay the prices that are being asked.  That doesn't make them stupid or misinformed just because thier taste differ than yours.

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Plus, I am not too sure, but I have heard issues from people that would place the Tower's motives in my view as suspect. Let's say all 200 units in the tower were stated to have been sold at 80% occ., does that mean that 160 individuals really purchased individual units. :o I am not too sure that when they report 80% occ. and cry out "buy em now" , that the TRUTH is not what it is all cracked up to be. For one, they won't even tell you who owns this or that and who bought what unit. It could mean that investment groups/ realty groups have purchased large #'s of units or floors at a bulk rate (say $35-75/sq.ft), and not $195+/sqft., then try to sell them off to the public. You mean to tell me that 250 plus people at the presentation packed that show room and put money down on 50-80% of the units, and all got approved. Look at the investment from TIF and other boards and do the math. They have claused the heck out of their contracts from what people tell me, literally handcuffing people from doing as they please(sell/lease) with the unit, til given the green light. Some even complained of being placed at lower $ units AFTER SIGNING, because the Tower and it's entity(s)can get a better offer from some other party before it is finished out. You can't even place an ad to resell or sub-lease as a private owner til the Tower says so. B) Ohhh, the humanity.
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#22 safly

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 08:56 PM

I am all over the place, hence the SA Fly. I have fin./ dev. interests both here and abroad, and I do not think the people in DTFW are stupid, by any means no. blaaa blaa blaaa blaaa blaaa blaaa blaaa whine blaaa blaaa Would you buy into the Tower(I use as an example due to its notoriety) and sit on the mortgage for 10+ years as a 20 or 30 something yo? Especially when all going on with the TRV is shaped to take place. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR SHIRT! C'est la vie.

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Welcome to the forum - you rock. I hope you stick around and continue to post as FTW continues to evolve. Build us a cool little authentic Mexican place downtown to give us more options, and I'll be sure to frequent. I'll have to sip a ton of maragrita's to drown my sorrows during my 20's and 30's while I cry about my mortgage I got in exchange for my 76102 zip code.

And I wish Arlington luck with their stadium...maybe Kelo vs. New London will have something to say about that before the day is over. Should be interesting.

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Many wil have a say in Arlington. a few will get the nod to act on it. i do phope one day you can visit my associates authentic mexican restaurant, they would really appreciate the business, and of course be happy to serve FWians and the construction crews the best food in TX. Thank you for the welcome.
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#23 safly

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 09:04 PM

I am all over the place, hence the SA Fly. I have fin./ dev. interests both here and abroad, and I do not think the people in DTFW are stupid, by any means no. blaaa blaa blaaa blaaa blaaa blaaa blaaa whine blaaa blaaa Would you buy into the Tower(I use as an example due to its notoriety) and sit on the mortgage for 10+ years as a 20 or 30 something yo? Especially when all going on with the TRV is shaped to take place. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR SHIRT! C'est la vie.

View Post


Welcome to the forum - you rock. I hope you stick around and continue to post as FTW continues to evolve. Build us a cool little authentic Mexican place downtown to give us more options, and I'll be sure to frequent. I'll have to sip a ton of maragrita's to drown my sorrows during my 20's and 30's while I cry about my mortgage I got in exchange for my 76102 zip code.

And I wish Arlington luck with their stadium...maybe Kelo vs. New London will have something to say about that before the day is over. Should be interesting.

View Post



ED is a poss., the people and council of Arlington will make the right decision on that. GPaying Jobs will have to be the pay-off if Arlington wants to grow along with the taxes. I am too paying close attention on the Kelo v. New London case. Since it is in close proximity to my assoc.'s. in CT.
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#24 Urbndwlr

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 09:27 PM

Safly,

It is much easier to identify problems than it is to propose solutions.
Besides, you sound as though you have an axe to grind with just about everyone in Fort Worth.

Remember, Fort Worth is a medium-sized city (about 600,000 in city limits), that has only recently begun to catch on. It is only in the last 5 years that the population has begun to grow quickly. I have noticed a tremendous difference in the last 5 years in visitors' assessment of our city. People are cosnistently suprised and impressed by the city's arts institutions, collection of very good (albeit limited supply of) restaurants, and our downtown's level of activity.

I have to disagree with you on your hypothesis that Fort Worth serves as a stepping stone for a large number of professionals - a career waystation. In fact, I would argue that we have relatively few corporate nomads - they tend to represent a much greater % of the population in the largest cities in each region (e.g. Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Denver, Phoenix, Chicago).

Our community has been building some great cultural institutions over the last few decades, and now has a city center that is really experiencing a lot of momentum as it enters its adolescence.

I cannot think of a similarly sized city in the US that has a greater concentration and mix of activity occurring in its downtown. We have about 12 million square feet of office space (apprx 95% occupied), about 3000 residential units, and a thriving sidewalk scene of restaurants, bars, and theatres.

Sure, there are some pieces to our city center that we still have to look forward to developing - that is what is appealing about living in a city of a size where we can get involved and actually make a meaningful impact. It is harder to do so in larger, more mature cities such as Chicago.

I don't follow your references to San Antionio's downtown's greatness. I'm not that familiar with the market, however I wasn't aware that its downtown had any critical mass of industry. I know it has a thriving tourism business downtown.
The city has a nice charm to it, but when I draw inspiration for projects that might work in Fort Worth in the future, I look to higher denstiy cities such as San Francisco, Chicago, and Washington, DC.

I wish you luck in your search for quality $100/SF downtown residential space.
I am also a skeptic when it comes to the residential "bubble", however I don't think Downtown's values will be hit very hard as it is really starting to experience strong demand as its reputation and appeal expand.

#25 Brian Luenser

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 09:42 PM

Note to SAFLY. Get a job. If you have a job, get another job. You have way too much time and energy on your hands.

Note to SELF. Don’t hire SAFLY. He has way more energy than brains.

I know others have said this but I must repeat. Fort Worth is like no other city. Period.
I, for one, think it is much better than any other city. (Lived in Chicago for 14 years)
Fort Worth is more like a clean, safe, friendly, old building museum, where at least a percentage of the people on the streets are your friends. Most of us who live here, do so by choice. We have all seen the rest and have come back. Your attitude is as though none of us own a car and have no idea what other cities are like.

I believe the view from the Tower is great in 90% of the units. And the other 10% only have to stroll around the 5th floor deck. The wiring is excellent. (There was consideration to go a cheaper route, but did not pass the F.W. Council.) Concerning the Tower pricing: It has been 20 years since my last semester of Economics, but I think that “Supply and Demand” thing still may be valid. After 3 short months the top half was sold out. I lucked into somebody transferring and bought his 1 bedroom 1 bath condo on the 31st floor. Paid 259,000. Would have paid 300,000. Without blinking. (And I am just a working slob.) By my basic Economics, they must have been under-priced or after 3 months I would have had a selection. (This was back when the building looked like it needed a good old-fashioned implosion) Had I been more aware of the Tower pre-build sale going on, I would have bought 3 units, including a small 2-bath unit for myself.

Note to others. I want to buy your A1 unit!

#26 safly

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Posted 24 February 2005 - 01:21 AM

Safly,

It is much easier to identify problems than it is to propose solutions. 
Besides, you sound as though you have an axe to grind with just about everyone in Fort Worth. 

Remember, Fort Worth is a medium-sized city (about 600,000 in city limits), that has only recently begun to catch on.  It is only in the last 5 years that the population has begun to grow quickly.  I have noticed a tremendous difference in the last 5 years in visitors' assessment of our city.  People are cosnistently suprised and impressed by the city's arts institutions, collection of very good (albeit limited supply of) restaurants, and our downtown's level of activity. 

I have to disagree with you on your hypothesis that Fort Worth serves as a stepping stone for a large number of professionals - a career waystation.  In fact, I would argue that we have relatively few corporate nomads - they tend to represent a much greater % of the population in the largest cities in each region (e.g. Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Denver, Phoenix, Chicago). 

Our community has been building some great cultural institutions over the last few decades, and now has a city center that is really experiencing a lot of momentum as it enters its adolescence. 

I cannot think of a similarly sized city in the US that has a greater concentration and mix of activity occurring in its downtown.  We have about 12 million square feet of office space (apprx 95% occupied), about 3000 residential units,  and a thriving sidewalk scene of restaurants, bars, and theatres. 

Sure, there are some pieces to our city center that we still have to look forward to developing - that is what is appealing about living in a city of a size where we can get involved and actually make a meaningful impact.  It is harder to do so in larger, more mature cities such as Chicago. 

I don't follow your references to San Antionio's downtown's greatness.  I'm not that familiar with the market, however I wasn't aware that its downtown had any critical mass of industry.  I know it has a thriving tourism business downtown. 
The city has a nice charm to it, but when I draw inspiration for projects that might work in Fort Worth in the future, I look to higher denstiy cities such as San Francisco, Chicago, and Washington, DC.   

I wish you luck in your search for quality $100/SF downtown residential space. 
I am also a skeptic when it comes to the residential "bubble", however I don't think Downtown's values will be hit very hard as it is really starting to experience strong demand as its reputation and appeal expand.

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I think tourists are bewildered by what this city has tooffer because it has a Ft. in it's name for one. Do you think you are just gonna pack up and hop on a plane for the weekend to Ft. Wayne, Ft. Stockton, Ft. Collins, Ft. Bend, Ft. Bliss, yah
maybe Ft. Lauderdale. You get tha picture. I hardly believe that when you moved here from Chi-town and had guest come over here that they were so thrilled that they bought a home and stayed for good. As for the San Antonio market you are absolutely stoned crazy if you think they don't have a critical mass of industry. Tourism alone has created vast revenue in the billions, something for DFW as a whole to froth at. Military, are you kidding like 7 bases at one time. Not to mention that about 99% of both active and retired military personnel have insurance for their cars, homes, and properties through one of the biggest employers in town, USAA. UTSA student numbers will rival that of TCU and UTA put together any day. Heck, their ACCD community school system is top 3 in the country. Not to mention a heap of private universities (Trinity U., St. Mary's, Incarante Word, Our Lady of the Lake U.). Academia second to none. The Central Market on Hulen ave. that everyone loves so dear and refuses to move to downtown for the next 10 years is based out of SA, as HEB grocery. It's been there and done that to them. Let me see, oh yes Toyota chose SA over hundreds of cities vying to get their corp. support through anew manufacturing plant which has plans to offer alternative fuel vehicles, and will pump conservatively $20 million a year in added revenue to it's SW side of town. B)


Let's see, oh a very well honored Medical Center rival only to Houston's. They have an INT'L Airport within the city limits, smack dab in the middle. We all know about the Riverwalk, THE ALAMO, it's PRO SPORTS, sustaining job and housing market. Many of people want to retire there and have. Over 50 golf courses and they still don't have to use citywide red-alert water conservation measures to the day. Superior highway system that support over 1 million drivers daily within it's limits, still their mayor won't cry for a toll road like FW's. 60 minutes to Austin, 30 to some nice lazy tubing, and 2 hours to Mexico. I still think the food and hospitality service industry is second to none for the state. They have actual PARADES, like with droves of people and floats, and the public school kids get to take a day off from class for it, yeah that important. Their Bowl games are SOLD OUT. They play HS rival football games in the ALAMO DOME. What else can you ask for in a city that just surpassed Dallas in residences. Clean air alerts is never an option, their recycle industry is flawless. It seems like many of FW res. and CCouncil folks can't get that down to this day. You want to camp and hike, an hour away off of i-10 in Kerrville, the Hill Country that runs through this great River City Town. Wanna hunt, head out highway 16 or 90 for some nice white tail, just 2 hours away. Another thing, you can't even get a decent breakfast taco joint in this downtown, unheard of anywhere else. :o Awwh SNAP!

So, when you want to step-up to the plate and start swinging and missing on this, get your stuff straight. Take it from someone who has been there and done it and can't for the life of me figure out why this city with all it's resources can't make a move up the right way. When are the people of FW gonna get over that Chuck Norris had filmed here, like once. Somebody from HollyWood smoked at the Tobacco Lane, like twice. Anna golfed here! Come buy her shirt! That there USED to be a Caravan of Dreams. Kennedy slept here the day befor he was shot. Come on, it gets real old, like when SA talks about Davy Crockett, get tha pic? Gooood Night!
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#27 safly

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Posted 24 February 2005 - 01:31 AM

Note to SAFLY.  Get a job. If you have a job, get another job. You have way too much time and energy on your hands. 

Note to SELF.  Don’t hire SAFLY.  He has way more energy than brains.

I know others have said this but I must repeat.  Fort Worth is like no other city. Period.
I, for one, think it is much better than any other city.  (Lived in Chicago for 14 years)
Fort Worth is more like a clean, safe, friendly, old building museum, where at least a percentage of the people on the streets are your friends.  Most of us who live here, do so by choice.  We have all seen the rest and have come back.  Your attitude is as though none of us own a car and have no idea what other cities are like.

I believe the view from the Tower is great in 90% of the units.  And the other 10% only have to stroll around the 5th floor deck.  The wiring is excellent.  (There was consideration to go a cheaper route, but did not pass the F.W. Council.)  Concerning the Tower pricing: It has been 20 years since my last semester of Economics, but I think that “Supply and Demand” thing still may be valid.  After 3 short months the top half was sold out.  I lucked into somebody transferring and bought his 1 bedroom 1 bath condo on the 31st floor.  Paid 259,000.  Would have paid 300,000. Without blinking. (And I am just a working slob.)  By my basic Economics, they must have been under-priced or after 3 months I would have had a selection. (This was back when the building looked like it needed a good old-fashioned implosion)  Had I been more aware of the Tower pre-build sale going on, I would have bought 3 units, including a small 2-bath unit for myself.

Note to others.  I want to buy your A1 unit!

View Post

To Monee,

Sorry I offend ya. But yous right, Ive gots ta sse ssse sleee sleeP! Mr. B got me ma ma mama makk makkke makIN them doo doo don donuts fo tha FW CLUB breakfas. Good Night! :o
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#28 lobster

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Posted 24 February 2005 - 02:03 AM

My current place has a better view of E and N than most who will be paying more on a mortgage on floors 6-18,20 of the Tower. When people move into their "high rise" units in floors 6-20, they will feel my pain, especially on the 3 non attractive directions of it.

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Yer crazy :o did you get a chance to see the tower models? they were on on 19 and the views were magnificent... from houston/9th you can't see the river, the courthouse, west side parks, etc.. I had a space in the HP and from what I remember of the penthouse, the views were of the FWCC and the equally as uncharacteristic Federal Bldg... the only immediately obvious charm out the window was the Flatiron .. you can't possibly compare the two bldgs..

but besides all of that, even lower-floored people are excited to be moving in to the building -- for some it's being a downtown resident for the first time, for others it's the proximity of the surroundings, and for me personally, I have many childhood memories of what I referred to as "the Big Glass Bank" as my father took me there many times while on business when I was 4 or 5.. The building's resurrection is a great story and they really have made it look fabulous compared to its former appearances. The tornado gave it national distinction from many documentaries on the Weather Channel, and to be spared an imploding death at the last minute and be converted into condos is a great surprise ending. Screw an 84th floor view -- lemme tell you, we couldn't be more excited.

Perhaps we'll give you a true downtown tour one day and you'll see the light about this place .. there are many things to appreciate..

#29 lobster

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Posted 24 February 2005 - 02:09 AM

but it isn't MANHATTAN, period. I think the 30/40 something crowd is still romancing over the "Friends" urban culture. No Central Park, no Broadway, no top-shelf dining life, ZERO celebrities, paparazzi, and the PIZZA here (like $$$ Uno's),

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..THANKFULLY we don't have any celebrities or paparazzi .. I think that's why we like it here B) .. And although we're not known for Pizza like NYC and Chicago are, pizzamaking isn't in Fort Worth's heritage -- so we'll take what we can get out of those wily Albanians..

.. that's like me challenging you to find a place in NYC that serves better brisket than FW :o

#30 fwfrog

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 11:02 AM

I think we kind of strayed off topic. Does anyone (who likes Ft. Worth) live in the Houston Place lofts -- aside from the penthouse?

We found that there were units on floors 2 and 3 that were in the neighborhood of $140,000. The catch? They're only around 700 sq. ft. Plus, you have to pay H.O.A. fees of $.21/sq. ft. per month (roughly $150). This just covers maintenance of the building -- not your personal unit.

Still, we like the proximity to the train station. We're not really concerned with having a riverside view or anything.

Assuming I like downtown Ft. Worth, I'm not concerned with job-hopping businessmen, and I like our Mexican food... is this place worth the price?

Let's hear from some people who live in the lower floors...

#31 safly

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 04:16 PM

I think we kind of strayed off topic.  Does anyone (who likes Ft. Worth) live in the Houston Place lofts -- aside from the penthouse?

We found that there were units on floors 2 and 3 that were in the neighborhood of $140,000.  The catch?  They're only around 700 sq. ft.  Plus, you have to pay H.O.A. fees of $.21/sq. ft. per month (roughly $150).  This just covers maintenance of the building -- not your personal unit.

Still, we like the proximity to the train station.  We're not really concerned with having a riverside view or anything.

Assuming I like downtown Ft. Worth, I'm not concerned with job-hopping businessmen, and I like our Mexican food... is this place worth the price?

Let's hear from some people who live in the lower floors...

View Post

The commoners will not speak until spoken to. I'm J/K! Actually my friend hacked into my account and started posting the first few days of this stuff, been here a couple of times when in town for business. I guess my problems with this place echoed a bit into the humorous dialogue. Yeah, I will be moving out before the end of April. The building owners apparently just slapped on 60 for some 30 day notices on their outside doors, to give people the hint without even discussing purchasing options. I am not the least bit surprised they were'nt able to get rid of those lower priced floors by now, they are a joke, no REALLY. If you are to live on floors 2 to 5 or 6, you can expect to have some noisy nights with the parking lot nearby, the Black Dog Sunday late night Jazz echoing from the alley, if you mind the music. And some brave fools in the past have climbed up the fire escape in the alley and proceeded along all those units and even partied up on my roof top, stoned out of their mind I'm sure of. Once they even opened my screen door as I was watching TV, COMPLETE STRANGERS. Mgmt. said oh well you didn't catch em, so we really can't do anything, and we'll try to fix that fire escape, for the 3rd time. And you will hear constant late night street construction throughout the year, not to mention those annoying birds that nest along Throck and Hyde Park. Nothin like wakin up to some good ol fashion Bird SH@* , "hmmhmm sho am Good!" Then they slapp on some cheap flooring, counters, essential machines, and track lighting, and want to put a "STEAL" of an asking price. Which 99% of the tennants here now or in the past when they first posted the prices respectfully disagree with. They are inflated by at least 3X it's MARKET worth for any downtown 1/1 at 700sq.ft on those floor levels. We all guess that they would expect everyone to sheep along just like the Tower folks. Demand over time can only prove a true FMV.

I do know someone who is willing to buy the whole enchilada, ;) And make a nice boutique hotel from it, modeled after one on Rodeo Dr., but that is for another day. I am not gonna stick around and participate in this "step right up and sign your life on the dotted line" routine, I just won't, and many others have not too. That is why there are only 5 tennants left out of 30 or so, but they will be gone at the same time.

The downtown area is VERY charming, I would rather pay Dr. Cravens close to that range for his floors in the FlatIron. If you walk by the place today and try to enter near the front doors you will notice, especially on a wet day like today, the bat dropping stinch that my friend has referred to before, and you will IMMEDIATELY have second thoughts. GL in finding a place here, I would not hold my breath on them putting any ammenities within a year or two that will justify the HOA fees and unit pricing. They seem a bit cocky that the whole building and d-town REVOLUTION will be the hit of the metroplex, especially on this end. I say it won't last for long(at least to make a decent return), and I would put my money into the Electric Building or Firestone, get a homebased business and write your sq.ft off. I've got business leads to help you with that.

The real bet would be on anything near the Trinity, because what is to stop someone from building a bigger venue than the HPL and open it up for rent, hence the Art-Deco Building (Alta dev.) which happens to be connected to the TRE start pad here in downtown. even though it is not by the TRV, you will have a wonderful sight of the new city hotel and most likely parts of the TRV. Constructon is happening as we speak and it is scheduled to open in winter or Spring of '06. Worth saving your money for. The company website has no artist renditions posted, but I can just imagine the views along with the height and elegant lobby area. I wonder if they are interested in putting a really nice restaurant in there? If you want to get shown around here, just give me an e-mail, I'll be glad too. So worth the price? Not the least bit.
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#32 fwfrog

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 11:05 PM

The real bet would be on anything near the Trinity, because what is to stop someone from building a bigger venue than the HPL and open it up for rent, hence the Art-Deco Building (Alta dev.) which happens to be connected to the TRE start pad here in downtown. even though it is not by the TRV, you will have a wonderful sight of the new city hotel and most likely parts of the TRV. Constructon is happening as we speak and it is scheduled to open in winter or Spring of '06. Worth saving your money for. The company website has no artist renditions posted, but I can just imagine the views along with the height and elegant lobby area. I wonder if they are interested in putting a really nice restaurant in there? If you want to get shown around here, just give me an e-mail, I'll be glad too. So worth the price? Not the least bit.

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Tell me more about this Art-Deco Building. Is this the old T&P Building that I heard is being converted to lofts? That'd be an ever better location for my wife to catch the TRE (versus the HPL and the ITC).

I've been reading the T&P thread. March '06? Do we know for sure if these will be apartments for lease? or condo's for sale?

Like I mentioned, we're tired of renting. We've been looking at homes in the area surrounding TCU... but something reasonable downtown, with TRE access has got us licking our chops. We can deal with a higher cost/sq. ft. if it means avoiding automobile traffic in our commutes.

In lieu of finding a home (or condo/loft) to buy, we've considered the Hillside Apartments for another go at renting. I'm not getting a good vibe on Houston Place. This T&P project sounds very intriguing, though. I wonder if it'll be affordable for us non-"empty nesters"? (that seem to be the target clientele of downtown living). We're 20-something newlyweds... maybe a bit naiive when it comes to the prospect of getting a place downtown.

#33 JBB

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 12:04 AM

I'm almost certain that T&P is going to be apartments.

#34 safly

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 01:00 AM

The real bet would be on anything near the Trinity, because what is to stop someone from building a bigger venue than the HPL and open it up for rent, hence the Art-Deco Building (Alta dev.) which happens to be connected to the TRE start pad here in downtown. even though it is not by the TRV, you will have a wonderful sight of the new city hotel and most likely parts of the TRV. Constructon is happening as we speak and it is scheduled to open in winter or Spring of '06. Worth saving your money for. The company website has no artist renditions posted, but I can just imagine the views along with the height and elegant lobby area. I wonder if they are interested in putting a really nice restaurant in there? If you want to get shown around here, just give me an e-mail, I'll be glad too. So worth the price? Not the least bit.

View Post


Tell me more about this Art-Deco Building. Is this the old T&P Building that I heard is being converted to lofts? That'd be an ever better location for my wife to catch the TRE (versus the HPL and the ITC).

I've been reading the T&P thread. March '06? Do we know for sure if these will be apartments for lease? or condo's for sale?

Like I mentioned, we're tired of renting. We've been looking at homes in the area surrounding TCU... but something reasonable downtown, with TRE access has got us licking our chops. We can deal with a higher cost/sq. ft. if it means avoiding automobile traffic in our commutes.

In lieu of finding a home (or condo/loft) to buy, we've considered the Hillside Apartments for another go at renting. I'm not getting a good vibe on Houston Place. This T&P project sounds very intriguing, though. I wonder if it'll be affordable for us non-"empty nesters"? (that seem to be the target clientele of downtown living). We're 20-something newlyweds... maybe a bit naiive when it comes to the prospect of getting a place downtown.

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You are not naiive to this d-town living thing. It seems to be that d-town dev./agents are wearing that hat. And it's a new hat too. Yes, believe it is called the T&P, or " The big tall building just E of the Post Office on Lancaster". The big rotting building (has potential) W of the USPO is something else? Not stoo sure, am not a historian of this town. I knew a sort of friend that lived in Firestone when I did, and his mother had part ownership rights I wanna say with the T&P. This was back in 2001 when he discussed with me in contracting wiring rights from a Dish dealer for that bilding. I don't remember the website name he showed me back then, but I think it had TNP in it. Anyways you an drive by the project that is occuring right now, it is very exciting. The company who is heading that is out of Houston or Atlanta, I believe. There website I can get for the forum, just have to search it. It does show on the site that they are working on a Dallas/FW project which is the Alta (TNP). They also show numerous other projects throughout the country and int'l sites, specializing in res. ( rental/condos/ and resorts). They've got some "topshelf" stuff.

The Forest PArk area is a fine area to look into. there are plenty of rentals there, a good RE agent helped me look in that area, very promising and it has plenty of shop areas and a new"Mid-Town" project n Forest Park Blvd. looking to pop up. I am interested in that on a comm. basis. , must have a real nice view of d-town. I've looked at the Forest Park building for rentals but they are trying to get in too close range of downtown living prices. My friend who lives there said they should be able to negotiate with (since they are novice with this RE trend), nice views though. The friends rent is about $300 less a month, and lived there for about 1.5 years. Pretty much the whole FP and Zoo area are great to buy or lease and your a bus ride away from the TRE. I take it your spouse commutes to Dallas, well I think it is too long of a ride just getting to DFW on the TRE, hopefully it will change. Too bad that their sole funding is just from commuters, I would sell-out to some big name advertising to fund it regularly, like Mountain Dew or Microsoft. :cheez: E-mail me if you need more info.
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#35 John T Roberts

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 08:09 AM

Fwfrog, the T&P Railway Terminal is being converted into apartments and a new apartment building is being constructed just to the east of the main building. There is a thread on this forum discussing the project. It is located at: http://www.fortworth...p?showtopic=387. I also have interior pictures of the lobby posted within the thread.

#36 fwfrog

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 09:29 AM

Fwfrog, the T&P Railway Terminal is being converted into apartments and a new apartment building is being constructed just to the east of the main building.  There is a thread on this forum discussing the project.  It is located at: http://www.fortworth...p?showtopic=387.  I also have interior pictures of the lobby posted within the thread.

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Those pictures of the lobby are amazing. I remember picking up some friends at the train station as a child. I forgot how grandiose that place is on the inside.

Too bad it's just rentals, though. We're tired of throwing $$ away in rent each month. Even for the Park Place building, safly mentioned... I had checked out that place when I was in college. Great views -- but a bit much for not being downtown (or even on the outskirts).

My wife's commute on the TRE will only be to CentrePort -- halfway to Dallas. She really liked the idea of rolling out of bed late, getting dressed quickly, and walking a block or two to catch her train.

We just found out that Houston Place lofts don't have any connections for full-sized washer and driers (just "stackables"). The idea of living there is losing steam fast.

#37 hooked

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 03:22 PM

FwFrog: If our place at the Tower doesn't work out for some reason, I'll make you guys an offer you can't refuse!

P.S. Your wife's dad makes great cheesecake . . .

#38 fwfrog

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 05:38 PM

FwFrog:  If our place at the Tower doesn't work out for some reason, I'll make you guys an offer you can't refuse!

P.S.  Your wife's dad makes great cheesecake . . .

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Ah-ha! I knew I'd bump into you here sooner or later <_<

It might be a while until we make it to Fort Worth. Since the house-hunting is slow, we're thinking of extending our apt. lease a couple of extra months (through May).

We might not be Tower-material, but be sure to let us know if Cooper needs a dog-sitter!

#39 safly

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 04:04 PM

Fwfrog, the T&P Railway Terminal is being converted into apartments and a new apartment building is being constructed just to the east of the main building.  There is a thread on this forum discussing the project.  It is located at: http://www.fortworth...p?showtopic=387.  I also have interior pictures of the lobby posted within the thread.

View Post



It's been confirmed from an inside source that it is also a Bass/Wood Partnership project. Sure to be fancy and sure to be at least $1.55/ sq.ft rent. I have better pic's if anyone wants to see em.
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#40 David Love

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:02 AM

Posted on Sun, Apr. 17, 2005

Houston Place Lofts will begin its open-house tours this weekend.
Houston Place Lofts cater to dwellers seeking urban lifestyle

Located at 910 Houston Street, the Houston Place Lofts is both the newest entry in downtown Fort Worth's residential options, as well as the oldest. With the conversion of this former office building to 30 residential living units, buyers now have the opportunity to own the oldest "residence" downtown.

With a respect for history and a taste for "true loft living," Houston Place Lofts appeals to the most discriminating buyer. Conveniently located to downtown offices, as well as dining, shopping and numerous arts venues, the Houston Place Lofts allows one to be part of the best that Fort Worth has to offer.

Unique to downtown living, each unit at the Lofts has two permanent parking spaces in the attached parking garage, located on the same level as the unit.

Residents can park on their unit's level and walk no more than 30 paces to their home, directly through a controlled access door into the hallway leading to their refuge from the world.

Houston Place Lofts provides a timeless appeal as old meets new, along with short walking distances to popular downtown locations, remarkable value and a permanent parking solution. The Lofts provides absolutely astounding views of the eastern and southern skylines with a hint of the southwest.

Standard finishes include beautiful hardwood flooring options and polished travertine. In the kitchen and bath, sleek Euro-style cabinetry is accented by granite countertops and brushed nickel fixtures. The gourmet kitchen includes stainless steel appliances complemented throughout the unit by high, black-out ceilings and wide open spaces with semi-exposed mechanicals, and the original brick walls incorporated into the interiors. The Lofts are a cast off of the true big-city-style loft living.

The spacious open loft bodes well for the size-conscious buyer with average unit size of about 1,100 square feet and complemented by 13 unique floorplans. The developer has astutely priced the units starting in the mid-$160s -- a truly great price point for downtown living.

The sales team of Christi Smith and Kim Sallinger of Merit Commercial Realty are pleased to announce the beginning of weekend open houses of model units tastefully decorated by Sophie Chaumont of Encore Decor, with furnishings provided by Blanc D'Ivoire.

Weekend open houses begin this weekend. Office hours are Saturday from 11 a.m.to 4 p.m. and Sunday from 12:30 p.m. to 4 p.m. Call today to schedule a personalized tour with Smith at 817-429-LOFT (5638) to begin the foray into downtown living.

#41 safly

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 05:27 PM

I guess sales have been so SLOW for them that they had to finally convince the ST that they have something newsworthy to tell us. I'm gonna try reading that article again without my rose-colored glasses on.

Christi and Kim are pretty good folks. It's a shame that they are trying to sell those 650-750 sq.ft back room units off at $165K (+). Once they see them, I'm "perty" sure it won't sit to well with the open house guests that's for sure.

Does anyone have any REAL news articles with HPL? Like why 50% hasn't been spoken for, if DTFW RE is what it's ALL announced/presented to be.

Better yet, have an open house at night time, you know so you can take part in the breathtaking views from the top 2 levels, and with the group of bats whizzing about from the building walls, you're guaranteed to never be alone at night. <_<
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#42 David Love

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 07:00 PM

Don't they have a web site?

#43 safly

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 02:35 PM

Don't they have a web site?

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Actually, if they do, this article sounds a lot like it's Homepage would?
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#44 David Love

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 02:42 PM

They finally got their web site up...

#45 rantanamo

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 03:58 PM

Interesting reading back on these posts. Have any of your opinions changed since back then, safly? Especially now that we've seen the horrible Cowboys Stadium map and its sea of parking?

#46 David Love

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 12:55 PM

They must not be in much of a hurry to sell these. I’ve sent them several questions via email and have yet to receive a response… ?

#47 safly

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 05:27 PM

Better luck w/ snail mail. ou can pretty much walk in at anytime of the day and call em down for viewing. GL!
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#48 David Love

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 07:11 PM

Any clue as to the price per square foot?

I got some basic pricing info before the floorplans were up, forgot what they told me so I asked by unit for square footage and price.

eMailed every person on the list... nothing.

#49 safly

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 10:28 AM

Actually, I do have that list from the tennent meeting we all had with the owers, BDRC. They gave no determined value for floors 8 and the Penthouse. I'll see if I can e-mail or upload the xls. on it. A friend of mine also configured a spreadsheet formula for perceived values on those floors based on the initial values per/sqft on the floors below. I truly believed that his company went about it the wrong way on this one. Hence, only 1 maybe 2 current residents have stayed online. GL.
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#50 David Love

David Love
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Posted 22 May 2005 - 03:28 PM

I wouldn’t be interested in the top floors unless they were shaded by some other building from noon on during the summer, possibly if the roof was terraced, I prefer summer sun insulation and most older buildings have no air gap and very poor insulation on the top floor which results in astronomical AC bills. Views look like the floor wouldn’t matter but it would be nice to have a view of the Flat Iron Building. I would have loved to of purchased a place there if Dr. Craven had them for purchase instead of just for rent.




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