222 replies to this topic

[Holden]

New build in Oakhurst that appears to fit in with the neighborhood:




http://www.jeffandro...2&HomeID=506572

[Buck]

Nice -- who was the builder?

[nativetexan]

It is not always easy. I had an offer to buy the lots on Sylvania Park where I planned to build 5 cute little houses.

But, the city said I would have to pay $85,000 to get City water and sewer.

[Bradleto]

Let's see... another new razing within the last week or so on Alton Rd right behind and to the west of TCU's stadium. The lot is for sale but I think with the intent that its new owner will also build the new structure for any prospective buyer.

Interestingly, this owner purchased the lot next door several years ago, razed the existing home there, then built a larger home. I don't think he did the building himself on that project but had it contracted out to a home builder. Anyway, he sold this home a few months ago and is now building homes professsionally, I suppose including the one next door when he finds a buyer.

The tax rolls show that the recently razed home was appraised at slightly under $300K and I would suppose had a market value of something greater than that, maybe $350K. This jibes with another nearby home that sold for $310 as I recall several years ago, then was razed for a new structure.

So, anyway, over in the Bellaire area anyway, it looks like the "market" for tear-downs to get to building lots is being established in the 300 to 400K range, I guess that's about half what I have heard similar structures are being bought for similar purposes over in Dallas inside the loop.

Now, the recent razings of two home down nearer Colonial CC may reflect much higher numbers... I am not sure and haven't heard anything to pass along, but they be more on par with some of the numbers heard about out of Dallas.

If the trend continues, and I think it will, my guess is areas of Westcliff west of University and south of Bellaire/Bellaire Drive South will become prime targets for razings. I believe the one lot over there was sold by sealed bid for something in the 175K range about 5 months ago... the house had already been razed as I recall. 175K would, I think, be considered a bargain compared to the 300 to 400K and may be a big inducement.

Just some thoughts... Cheers! Brad

[cberen1]

I spent a little time yesterday with one of the high-end builders in the TCU, Park Hill, Tanglewood area. In their view, if they can get a spec home to the consumer for $210 - $220 / ft. they can make it work, it's sellable. They shoot for 3,000 - 4,500 sq ft. For them that means they need to get the lot for $185K to $250K to justify a spec home. Although he said they've done some custom stuff that doesn't fit within those parameters at all.

They just sold one on Hartwood for $675K. The existing homes around it should sell for about 2/3rds that much. I've often wondered: Does that make the existing homes more valuable, or does it put downward pressure on them to make a tear-down justifiable?

[gdvanc]

Existing homes should become more valuable overall. The new demand coming from those who will tear down and rebuild will shift the demand curve up to the right. It's possible that part of the left side of the demand curve will be unchanged if those who want to buy to tear down don't value the cleared lot enough to outbid those who want it as a home. This would be determined by the market price of the existing property compared to its value as a cleared lot plus the cost of demolition. Or something like that.

At any rate, I don't think it would put downward pressure on market value. In the short-term.

Edited by gdvanc, 17 May 2007 - 08:06 AM.

[Bradleto]

I agree with the previous poster's comments that it should not suppress home values, having homes sold for their lots, that is.

You'd have the normal buying group looking for homes in the area to live in "as is," or with some remodelling efforts; and to this regular demand, you'd add those who are looking for homes to raze to yield buildable homesites. So, more folks looking to purchase in an area with a fixed supply equals pressure on the demand side of the equation, and that means prices should go up, not down.

I am less certain about another poster's comment that lots are selling in the $185,000 range for tear-downs to build spec homes. At least for the lots I have cited, the numbers in Bellaire have been 300K+. I assume they are even higher for those few cases down nearer Colonial CC where a few new homes have been built over the past several years. And, I am uncertain that any of these have been spec homes... most that I know of were custom built for the eventual occupants and not marketed to the public.

Just two or three years ago, Joan Trew told me that with perhaps one exception, no homes in the Colonial area had sold for $200 per foot, that they were pushing into the 185 per foot range as I recall. But, there is no doubt that the recent razings-rebuilds would be well above existing older structures in the price per square foot just based on the high costs it took to build them not the least of which was some very expensive dirt. Some of these must approach $300 per sq foot I would guess. Now, whether they could sell them for what they have in them, I am uncertain.

Anyway, my guess is that Fort Worth's relatively cheap housing compared to many other national markets, will be generally lifted by re-builds and also by the comparatively high per square foot prices of Downtown residential properties. It would seem to me that the well over 200 per sq ft almost all of those units are commanding will de-sensitize folks to higher prices all around the inner city, I guess Fort Worth's version of "inside the loop."

No doubt, some neighborhoods are in for very significant changes as older structures come down and new ones pop up. Westcliff would be one area I suspect will soon be a target for lots. And, while I am only aware of one down in Tanglewood, I would not be surprised to see something similar down there develop for the many smaller homes on the courts off of Hartwood... Lynncrest, Kingston, Ann Arbor, etc. Lot purchases are now exceeding the market value of many of these homes.

Just some thoughts. Brad

Cheers! Brad

[cberen1]

I am less certain about another poster's comment that lots are selling in the $185,000 range for tear-downs to build spec homes. At least for the lots I have cited, the numbers in Bellaire have been 300K+. I assume they are even higher for those few cases down nearer Colonial CC where a few new homes have been built over the past several years.

Another poster here.

That's not exactly what I said. What I said was that the builder could make a spec home work if they got the lot in that $185K range. That is, there is sufficient room in the pricing at that level to be able to reasonably absorb the risk. The Hartwood home is an example of that exact figure. I think they've got two more they're marketing that they acquired with similar pricing. However, they aren't finding many in that range so they do primarily custom work, which prices out to whatever the buyer wants.

Definitely agreed on the general pricing around Bellaire ($300+).

[Bradleto]

cberen,

You are absolutely correct... my apology to you for misreading your post. You clearly were speaking of what builders would like to do, or need to do, in order for the spec home route to work out without incurring too much financial risk.

And, those sorts of numbers make sense to me, though I wonder if the builders' margins wouldn't be a little pinched even at +200 per sq ft selling prices.

And, $185,000 for that lot down on Hartwood sounds like an appropriate price though many of the structures in there probably exceed that value I'd guess. But, it certainly opens up the possibility that we'll see more activity down in the Tanglewood area as I suggested in an earlier post, there and areas in Westcliff and other areas near to TCU.

Another lot is being auctioned off in a sealed bid in just a few days... the house directly north of me on Bellarie Drive West. Minimum bid is $125,000 for what I and others think is clearly a tear down and way beyond restoration at this point. But, the price is low for the Bellaire area for a good reason. The lot angles acutely down the hillside and is wide and narrow limiting the scope of building possibilities. And, from first-hand experience, I can tell readers that the foundation for such an undertaking will be quite expensive.

But, I think the lot is a great value and using numbers similar to cberen's numbers, a 3,000 sq ft home at $200 per foot = $600,000 less say $150,000 for the lot and $12,000 to raze the existing property, leaves $146 per foot for the structure itself. Depending on the quality of the home, a good builder could bring it in much cheaper than that I suppose for a decent profit margin.

Cheers! Brad

[mmiller2002]

Death watch for side-by-side semi-run down houses at the NW corner of Madeline and Camp Bowie. They were for sale a little while ago after having been oddly boarded for a while. Same owner for both on TAD.

Don't blink.

They're gone now.

[mmiller2002]

Another perfectly restorable house going down on the 3900 block of Mattison. I saw the dozer today.

[hannerhan]

Another perfectly restorable house going down on the 3900 block of Mattison. I saw the dozer today.

It's generally not the ability to restore that's the problem. We tore down a 900 square foot house for our new home a few blocks from there, and the one we leveled was actually decent. But no one (including myself, my wife, and my 3 kids) wants a 900 square foot home with small closets, small kitchen, small bathroom, etc.

Most of the homes on Mattison, Modlin, Bunting, 7th, 6th, and 5th were originally around 1,000 square feet, which makes a restoration and expansion to 3,000+ feet more expensive than dozing it. That's why you don't see as much razing on the nicer streets in Monticello. Those homes were 2,000+ square feet to begin with, and many have been restored and added to, instead of razed.

[Fort Worthology]

But no one (including myself, my wife, and my 3 kids) wants a 900 square foot home with small closets, small kitchen, small bathroom, etc.

I'd be OK with it. Big closets/house/etc. just means "more junk" to me.

[Bradleto]

Not only are some of the older homes less desirable to many folks because of small closets, kithchens, and so forth, but there is also an economic element at work: It costs much more to renovate/restore and existing structure than to build from scratch.

I had a great framer for a home I built just north of TCU in the mid 90s and I ask him if he did remodel framing work too, to which he replied that he actually preferred it. I ask him why and he said the going rate for framing extension projects for remodels was about twice as high per foot, so much better profit margins for him. He didn't "set" these rates, but lived with what the markets dictated he could charge.

So, a desire for updated expectations, then the economic thing are two big contributors to teardowns. But, the biggest of all is a natural desire in mankind that dates back literally thousands of years and that is to move in, take over, and build right on top of exactly where a previous population/community/religious sect has developed anything. Look at the Muslim/Christian/Jewish attraction to the exact same real estate, then at Mexico City where the Spanish simply built their structures on top of the previous Indian sites. This is why archaeologists drill down through sites they are studying knowing that usually a preceding one is below a more recent one.

I guess this also explains the recent changes in eminent domain laws... paving a way for capitalism to legally acquire properties they desire since they cannot get it the old fashion, natural way... by sending an army of marauders to overwhelm the current owners.

Human nature? Could be! Brad

[Keller Pirate]

But no one (including myself, my wife, and my 3 kids) wants a 900 square foot home with small closets, small kitchen, small bathroom, etc.

I'd be OK with it. Big closets/house/etc. just means "more junk" to me.

Insightful comments all around on this thread. Hey Atomic, you must need a fair amount of closet space to keep the suits and hats don't you?

[Fort Worthology]

Insightful comments all around on this thread. Hey Atomic, you must need a fair amount of closet space to keep the suits and hats don't you?

Not really - hats don't take closet space.

I'm not saying nobody needs a lot of big closets and such, and I'm not saying people should be forbidden from accumulating stuff. Lord knows I have plenty taking up closet space here at the Electric Building. I'm just saying that people obviously had the ability to get through life somehow without 1,200 square feet of walk-in closet space in the past, and that it isn't THAT hard to figure out how to live in the modern age in a small vintage house. People may not have had huge closets, but they did have chests and dressers and armoires and such. There's plenty of storage solutions out there. As for bathrooms - how much hair product do people have these days?

I'm just trying to keep our history from being leveled. My model would be Fairmount - gorgeous vintage homes, and new homes that are bigger, with more amenities and space, but blend in absolutely perfectly. Fairmount's model needs to be followed in these other neighborhoods before we find all our heritage bulldozed for 9,000 square foot monsters.

[mmiller2002]

Another perfectly restorable house going down on the 3900 block of Mattison. I saw the dozer today.

It's generally not the ability to restore that's the problem. We tore down a 900 square foot house for our new home a few blocks from there, and the one we leveled was actually decent. But no one (including myself, my wife, and my 3 kids) wants a 900 square foot home with small closets, small kitchen, small bathroom, etc.

Most of the homes on Mattison, Modlin, Bunting, 7th, 6th, and 5th were originally around 1,000 square feet, which makes a restoration and expansion to 3,000+ feet more expensive than dozing it. That's why you don't see as much razing on the nicer streets in Monticello. Those homes were 2,000+ square feet to begin with, and many have been restored and added to, instead of razed.

I better watch what I say now since you are part of the demolish and build gang. So, will there ba any yard left on your lot?

I don't like the squeezed-in look that's occurring.

[mmiller2002]

Not only are some of the older homes less desirable to many folks because of small closets, kithchens, and so forth, but there is also an economic element at work: It costs much more to renovate/restore and existing structure than to build from scratch.

Does this take into account having to pay over $200K for a 50x120' lot?

[hannerhan]

Another perfectly restorable house going down on the 3900 block of Mattison. I saw the dozer today.

It's generally not the ability to restore that's the problem. We tore down a 900 square foot house for our new home a few blocks from there, and the one we leveled was actually decent. But no one (including myself, my wife, and my 3 kids) wants a 900 square foot home with small closets, small kitchen, small bathroom, etc.

Most of the homes on Mattison, Modlin, Bunting, 7th, 6th, and 5th were originally around 1,000 square feet, which makes a restoration and expansion to 3,000+ feet more expensive than dozing it. That's why you don't see as much razing on the nicer streets in Monticello. Those homes were 2,000+ square feet to begin with, and many have been restored and added to, instead of razed.

I better watch what I say now since you are part of the demolish and build gang. So, will there ba any yard left on your lot?

I don't like the squeezed-in look that's occurring.

After construction, in the back of the house we're left with a 50x20 foot yard, a 50x7 foot dog run, and a 500 square foot covered porch. Standard setback in the front. Not too bad for a 50x135 foot lot I guess, but our house is only 2,700 square feet, not 4,000+ like some of the other new ones on our street.

[AndyN]

I guess this also explains the recent changes in eminent domain laws... paving a way for capitalism to legally acquire properties they desire since they cannot get it the old fashion, natural way... by sending an army of marauders to overwhelm the current owners.

Where did you hear that? The only recent law that did anything to the eminent domain laws was Senate Bill 7 which pointedly clarified that eminent domain is not to be used for economic development. This bill was a reaction to the suggestion by the US Supreme Court in the case of Kelo vs. New London in which they suggested that restrictions on the use of eminent domain was the responsibility of the states. The bill did allow for the exemption of sports complexes already under construction (ie: Jerryworld in Arlington). Also, it appears that the law is somewhat toothless since all you have to do to get around it is to introduce another bill specifically exempting your project, like what Charlie Geren did for TRWD's Trinity Uptown.

There is another law that was passed in the last session and currently awaiting the governor's signature that makes it more difficult and more expensive for government to use eminent domain. I haven't read the text of that one yet, but I am not aware of any loosening of the eminent domain laws by any stretch of the imagination.

[Bradleto]

Andy,

I think it is generally believed that the U.S. Supreme Court's recent ruling on eminent domain weakened property owners' rights by expanding/clarifying the definition of valid reasons to acquire property in such a manner as to include purely economic factors benefitting the public at large. So, in the past where eminent domain might have been used to push through a new interstate highway or to build a hospital, something like that, now the justification can be something as simple as "let's acquire and tear down these low value structures, let a developer redevelop the properties for a higher tax base, and the tax increases are the "benefit."

So, anyway, I think it was with further clarification that it was suggested that each State or local jurisdiction could establish restrictive covenants to keep these sorts of property acquisitions from occurring.

I know the court's decision surprised lots of folks. Brad

[Urbndwlr]

Brad - I think you are right that the tendency of many to desire to demolish and build anew is largely due to human nature. I understand the issue you identified below about pricing renovations vs. new construction, however very often the real costs of new construction don't accurately value the existing value of an older structure. Often older structures offer character-rich elements that would be highly expensive to replicate. Also, often we overestimate the quality of current materials vs. old ones. Many are superior, but some arent, particularly millwork.

I can think of some amazing old houses here in Fort Worth and in other towns where owners harnessed the appeal of an older, small home and added the big, roomy spaces on to the back of it - getting the best of both (and avoiding building a house that overwhelms its neighbor from the street by putting the 2-story parts in the rear.

Be careful not to be hastly and lose out on great opportunities to take advantage of the value of the appeal of old homes.

Not only are some of the older homes less desirable to many folks because of small closets, kithchens, and so forth, but there is also an economic element at work: It costs much more to renovate/restore and existing structure than to build from scratch.

I had a great framer for a home I built just north of TCU in the mid 90s and I ask him if he did remodel framing work too, to which he replied that he actually preferred it. I ask him why and he said the going rate for framing extension projects for remodels was about twice as high per foot, so much better profit margins for him. He didn't "set" these rates, but lived with what the markets dictated he could charge.

So, a desire for updated expectations, then the economic thing are two big contributors to teardowns. But, the biggest of all is a natural desire in mankind that dates back literally thousands of years and that is to move in, take over, and build right on top of exactly where a previous population/community/religious sect has developed anything. Look at the Muslim/Christian/Jewish attraction to the exact same real estate, then at Mexico City where the Spanish simply built their structures on top of the previous Indian sites. This is why archaeologists drill down through sites they are studying knowing that usually a preceding one is below a more recent one.

I guess this also explains the recent changes in eminent domain laws... paving a way for capitalism to legally acquire properties they desire since they cannot get it the old fashion, natural way... by sending an army of marauders to overwhelm the current owners.

Human nature? Could be! Brad

[hannerhan]

Latest article, this time from FWWeekly.


Tear Down, Build Up
Monticello is experiencing redevelopment pains — and benefits.

By COLE WILLIAMS


A bulldozer took out this home on Hamilton Avenue in the space of an afternoon.
The bungalow on West 4th Street in Fort Worth’s Monticello neighborhood is a well-kept 1940s model, its yard manicured. To its left, the neighborhood looks much as it has for years: smaller, mostly well-cared-for homes with big trees, porches, flowers, and shady yards. Look to the right and you see Monticello’s future: four new townhomes — attractive, but twice as tall as the older homes, squeezed into lots with little room left for lawns or trees.

Drive down almost any street in Monticello and surrounding Cultural District neighborhoods, and the scene this summer is the same as on West 4th. Smaller homes are being bulldozed and replaced with bigger houses and townhouses — often but not always well-built, well-landscaped additions to the neighborhood that add to the property values. But longtime residents are worried about what is being lost as well, in this Year of the Teardowns.

“In my personal opinion, I’m disturbed by the size and the height and mass and architecture of lot of new construction,” said Bonnie Holmes, treasurer for the Monticello Neighborhood Association. “Some have been designed to fit in nicely with existing style, but a lot of it ... a French chateau has no place in Monticello.”

Before moving to Fort Worth more than a decade ago, Holmes said, she lived in Houston, in a neighborhood much like Monticello, and her Houston neighborhood had changed completely when she went back to visit. Now she fears, “We’re headed that way.” She’s afraid of losing Monticello’s friendly feel as a place with mature trees, sidewalks, and neighbors who know one another and visit up and down the block.

Redevelopment in the Cultural District began about five years ago, as Fort Worth residents warmed to the idea of living closer to downtown, in more urban settings — the kind of livable inner-city renewal that Fernando Costa, the city’s chief planner, has been pushing for a long time. In the Monticello area, with its many historic homes and high property values, the pace picked up a year ago. Now multiple developers have more than two dozen projects in the works, including townhouses, single-family homes, and apartment complexes. Developers of the 12-acre Museum Place project, to include offices, retail, and residences, have broken ground for buildings on the commercial edge of the neighborhood, at the West 7th-University-Camp Bowie intersection. In the past year, according to the Tarrant Appraisal District, new construction has added about 20 percent to the neighborhood’s property values.

Costa said many central-city neighborhoods are drawing more interest from developers and folks looking for places to live. He sees the change as good for the city, in that such redevelopments allow Fort Worth to grow “smarter,” with higher density areas that are “environmentally sustainable and socially responsible” instead of promoting “inefficient urban sprawl.”

But the planner also acknowledged the dangers of fast change in long-established neighborhoods, especially low-income areas such as Linwood, just east of Monticello. “If we’re not careful, then those kinds of side effects can occur,” he said — including forcing out lower-income families who don’t really want to leave. But the city works with those neighborhoods to preserve their character and to protect them from unwanted redevelopment, he said, by trying to push new projects toward under-utilized areas.

Several developers working in Monticello said they believe their projects are helping revitalize the neighborhood by adding good homes and new amenities within walking distance. Most said they try to involve the neighborhood in their projects in some way.

Village Homes, with 19 town homes and three single-family homes, has the most projects in the area. Sales associate Leslie Fry said neighbors are generally happy with the construction and that the developer invites neighbors to meetings before projects start, to answer their questions and “give them a feeling of being involved. We care what they think.”

Fry said most of the houses bought and torn down by Village Homes were not in very good shape and that by buying the land at a premium, the company passes on benefits to sellers and helps increase property values

Builder David Lewis, with “four or five” projects in the neighborhood, also said he bought only dilapidated homes to be torn down — ones he described as rat-infested, wino-occupied eyesores.

Monticello residents took issue with that description. Holmes said she has seen older and dilapidated homes bulldozed, but she’s also seen “perfectly good houses torn down in the name of ‘I want to build a new house.’”

Gloria Bradfield, president of the Monticello neighborhood group, said residents’ reactions to the new construction range from one end of the spectrum to another, but she estimated that about 60 percent of people are against it, and about 40 percent support it.

If new homes require no zoning changes or variances, neighbors may not have much to say about new construction. But they can — and sometimes do — go before city boards to fight requests for changes like smaller setbacks from the street and property lines or the loosening of height restrictions. Costa said the city works to help the neighborhoods “determine what they want to become, whether that means staying the same or changing in appropriate ways.”

In one instance, some Monticello residents are opposing a developer’s plans for duplexes on West 4th and 5th streets at the intersection with Haskell Street. At an Aug. 22 meeting of the Fort Worth Planning Commission, they expect to ask that the properties be zoned for single-family residences.

Bradfield said more people need to join their neighborhood associations in order to have a say in what happens.

“If it’s not happening in someone’s backyard or not in front of them, they sort of tend to blow it off,” Holmes added.

L.A. Jones of Hamilton Street also has some issues with the builders, particularly Village Homes’ project just behind her house. “My sister has had three flat tires in the past five months,” she said, and a subcontractor backed into Jones’ car, then refused to take responsibility for it. She’s also worried about Village Homes hiring illegal workers, which she said could increase the crime rate. And she doesn’t like the new homes that are going up without porches. Those builders, she said, are “creating hermits.”

Lauren Pointer, marketing associate for Village Homes, said she understands many of the complaints but disagrees with them. She says that, like Museum Place, Village Homes is “trying to bring back the community.

“We don’t hire illegal immigrants,” she said. And when residents encounter rude workers or foremen, “We really want to urge people to call us when there’s a problem.” She said that when neighbors have contacted Village Homes in regard to small problems, the company has tried to address them immediately. As for complaints about the problems inherent in construction, she said, “I live on West 4th, and the construction is killing my car.”

Pointer said Village Homes is aware of the effect its homes are having on the neighborhood’s style. “The social and cultural implications our designs have are important to us,” she said, and criticism can help the builder make needed changes. The aim is not to change the area’s style but to improve and complement it, she said. “We’re not going to build a modern house in the middle of a bunch of bungalows.”

Builders couldn’t redevelop the area, of course, without owners willing to sell them existing homes and lots. Redevelopment is a boon for people looking to move or people who need to cash in on the greatly increased value of their property. David Breaux, who has lived in the area for more than a decade, is selling his house on West 4th Street so he can move to a downtown loft with less maintenance. He said he’s kept his home in good condition and that prospective buyers have shown a lot of interest.

Many residents understand that change is coming and aren’t fighting every new development. Sheila Grant of the Monticello Neighborhood Association said she shares the sentiment she’s heard many of her neighbors express — she isn’t against change per se, but is for “responsible development.” She understands, she said, that “there’s no happy scenario with construction. Things go on ... everyone has to suck it up and deal with it.” She also said she likes the look of some of the new homes.

Jones agreed. She said builder Cassius Vessey of Vessey and Sons Construction is “a nice guy, considerate,” who talked with neighbors before starting a project, and builds homes that blend in with the neighborhood’s existing style.

The end result of all the changes could be more new residents like Jordan Dickeson. An exuberant young woman in her 20s, she recently moved with her fiancé into a home they had custom built at West 4th and Haskell. Their reasons for moving into the area are the same that longtime residents have for wanting things to stay as they are. Dickeson said she loves being close to downtown and the neighborhood’s “family atmosphere,” and she has already gotten to know her neighbors.

[mmiller2002]

http://www.williamst...3&listingtype=1

We walked through this one this past weekend at open house. Nicely finished, but just too big for the lot. Whoever buys it will get to enjoy every lawn-care trailer and pickup going over the speed hump right outside the master bedroom window. Curiously, there's no good place to put a king bed in the master bedroom the way the walls and doors are positioned.

[JSJ]

I haven't seen anything posted on this thread in awhile.

Does anyone have any "scoops" and/or opinions on all the tear downs and new building going in the North Hi Mount and Monticello neighborhoods?

[Bradleto]

There are several residential lots for sale over near West 7th...

3833 Bunting is a residential lot with no structures on it;
3812 Byers, 3820 Bryce, 3803 W. 6th and 3909 West 7th... I think some of these have structures on them but I am not certain.

The lot on Bunting is 50' X 130' as I recall with some nice original homes in the area and a sprinkling of newer structures here and there. The lot isn't cheap... so the home that will be built there will likely exceed the average value of existing older homes as most of the new ones do.

Nearer TCU, there are several projects going on... The big house on Colonial Pkwy is probably 18 months or more into the project with no end in sight. My guess is that it may be another year before it is all done. I am anxiously awaiting its final form... right now, it is hard to make out what the final product will look like, but I guess not at all like the Colonial styles to its west.

Then, we have an almost total rehab going on to the west of TCU where the owner chose to leave the remaining partial foundation and then concreted in the area that used to be sort of a pier and beam basement area. The owners are mixing traditional and contemporary design elements. One element that I like is found toward the back of the house, they are installing two large garage-type glass doors that roll up and below the ceiling and then the opening can be closed off by two large screens pulled together. It brings the outside "in" as they say and is a nice feature since they back up to a beautiful park-like view.

Westcliff has at least one new home.

And, there is a lot for sale in Berkeley I believe.

Lot prices in desirable neighborhoods are astronomical and that sort of then requires that a substantial home be built on it. My guess is this trend will continue in various central city neighborhoods.

Odds and ends.

Brad

[longhornz32]

Then, we have an almost total rehab going on to the west of TCU where the owner chose to leave the remaining partial foundation and then concreted in the area that used to be sort of a pier and beam basement area. The owners are mixing traditional and contemporary design elements. One element that I like is found toward the back of the house, they are installing two large garage-type glass doors that roll up and below the ceiling and then the opening can be closed off by two large screens pulled together. It brings the outside "in" as they say and is a nice feature since they back up to a beautiful park-like view.

Hey Brad,

I love this house. I drive by it every day going to work and a couple of years ago when I could tell it was abandoned I did everything I could do to find the owner. I actually tried to buy this house but lost out to someone else. Do you know who the architect is or if there is one? I love the site and I really like what they are doing to the home.

[hannerhan]

The quality of the construction in Monticello continues to be fairly high, with the aesthetics continuing to be mixed. The good news is that the homes that seem to belong in Aledo don't appear to be selling well. There is a home on the corner of 5th and Dorothy that is incredibly plain and out of place in the neighborhood. And it's been sitting unsold for 6+ months. Here is the street view of the home(SE corner): http://tinyurl.com/6gtgzj. But the homes that builders are designing well seem to still be selling quickly. Homes like this for instance (red brick on North side): http://tinyurl.com/5fw839. Same quality and price range as the previous one, one block away, but just a generally a more pleasing look that fits better in the neighborhood.

Of course all the new homes in the area dwarf the bungalows that they are replacing, but that isn't going to change...so I just hope they look halfway decent.

There are currently 3 new homes on my block (6th St) which are in some phase of teardown/construction. So the trend isn't slowing down.

[Fort Worthology]

On the other hand, here's how they do infill housing in Fairmount. Great designs, great scale. Love it.:

[PLS]

we're involved in several lot development projects in frisco and the general rule of thumb for the spec homebuilders is the lot price should equal roughly 30% of the final home price. admittedly i'm not intensively involved in the homebuilding side of the business, but based on the home prices listed earlier in the thread, assuming a decent sized lot can be acquired, an $800k home could sit on a lot that costs as much as $240k to make financial sense for the builder. can anyone confirm/correct this data?

[ghughes]

No picture, but the house at 2552 Stadium Dr has been scraped. We've had a scattering of such events in University West. Second or third hand info is the owners plan 3000 sq ft one story... basically filling the lot with a house surrounding a courtyard.

[JBB]

The big house on Colonial Pkwy is probably 18 months or more into the project with no end in sight. My guess is that it may be another year before it is all done. I am anxiously awaiting its final form... right now, it is hard to make out what the final product will look like, but I guess not at all like the Colonial styles to its west.

That house is unbelievable. I couldn't believe the concrete first floor. That must have cost a fortune.

[Bradleto]

Then, we have an almost total rehab going on to the west of TCU where the owner chose to leave the remaining partial foundation and then concreted in the area that used to be sort of a pier and beam basement area. The owners are mixing traditional and contemporary design elements. One element that I like is found toward the back of the house, they are installing two large garage-type glass doors that roll up and below the ceiling and then the opening can be closed off by two large screens pulled together. It brings the outside "in" as they say and is a nice feature since they back up to a beautiful park-like view.

Hey Brad,

I love this house. I drive by it every day going to work and a couple of years ago when I could tell it was abandoned I did everything I could do to find the owner. I actually tried to buy this house but lost out to someone else. Do you know who the architect is or if there is one? I love the site and I really like what they are doing to the home.

[76107]

we're involved in several lot development projects in frisco and the general rule of thumb for the spec homebuilders is the lot price should equal roughly 30% of the final home price. admittedly i'm not intensively involved in the homebuilding side of the business, but based on the home prices listed earlier in the thread, assuming a decent sized lot can be acquired, an $800k home could sit on a lot that costs as much as $240k to make financial sense for the builder. can anyone confirm/correct this data?

The usual rule of thumb used to be an 80/20 split, which still makes sense in the lower priced sub-markets, but recently we've been seeing even up to a 60/40. It really all depends on your banker.

[Bradleto]

Then, we have an almost total rehab going on to the west of TCU where the owner chose to leave the remaining partial foundation and then concreted in the area that used to be sort of a pier and beam basement area. The owners are mixing traditional and contemporary design elements. One element that I like is found toward the back of the house, they are installing two large garage-type glass doors that roll up and below the ceiling and then the opening can be closed off by two large screens pulled together. It brings the outside "in" as they say and is a nice feature since they back up to a beautiful park-like view.

Hey Brad,

I love this house. I drive by it every day going to work and a couple of years ago when I could tell it was abandoned I did everything I could do to find the owner. I actually tried to buy this house but lost out to someone else. Do you know who the architect is or if there is one? I love the site and I really like what they are doing to the home.

He used John Millet, the same man who designed my foundation (next door). I like the mix very much as it took an old worn-out structure that needed that contemporary component to frreshen it up. I think it looks great. John used to office on 7th Street.

Brad

[Bradleto]

we're involved in several lot development projects in frisco and the general rule of thumb for the spec homebuilders is the lot price should equal roughly 30% of the final home price. admittedly i'm not intensively involved in the homebuilding side of the business, but based on the home prices listed earlier in the thread, assuming a decent sized lot can be acquired, an $800k home could sit on a lot that costs as much as $240k to make financial sense for the builder. can anyone confirm/correct this data?

The usual rule of thumb used to be an 80/20 split, which still makes sense in the lower priced sub-markets, but recently we've been seeing even up to a 60/40. It really all depends on your banker.

My lot costs were about 20% of the two homes I have built in the TCU area, though bank loans weren't involved so I didn't have to meet any specified guidelines. I actually considered buying another small lot, one that I mentioned above, but my wife gave me the "thumbs-down" ... so far, at least. And, since I would want a small sort of retirement home, the lot costs would have approached 35% or more of the total value for this and other areas in Fort Worth where locations mean so much. But, as they say about real estate, and it is certainly very true in Fort Worth, location is everything, and it is better to pay up for it than to find yourself in a more commoditized real estate market where the capricious nature of property valuations whips you around out of your control.

Universities... like TCU or SMU anyway, museums, hospitals sometimes, nearness to culture, these are all good things to look for, but you have to pay up.

Cheers! Brad

[hannerhan]

It's about 25-30% (land cost vs. total) in Monticello on most of the new construction I've seen. My home was 32% land cost vs. total, but it's a little smaller than most of what's being built...

On the other hand my original house out in North Fort Worth (a DR Horton special), was about 15% land value based on TAD prices. In reality it was probably less.

[longhornz32]

He used John Millet, the same man who designed my foundation (next door). I like the mix very much as it took an old worn-out structure that needed that contemporary component to frreshen it up. I think it looks great. John used to office on 7th Street.

Brad

Thanks Brad! I didn't know the house next door was yours. Your house is great as well! The site is probably may favorite place in Fort Worth which is why I fought so hard to get your neighbor's house. I've been looking for a good residential architect with similar tastes as my own and I may of found it with John Millet.

Any house tours in your future?

[Bradleto]

He used John Millet, the same man who designed my foundation (next door). I like the mix very much as it took an old worn-out structure that needed that contemporary component to frreshen it up. I think it looks great. John used to office on 7th Street.

Brad

Thanks Brad! I didn't know the house next door was yours. Your house is great as well! The site is probably may favorite place in Fort Worth which is why I fought so hard to get your neighbor's house. I've been looking for a good residential architect with similar tastes as my own and I may of found it with John Millet.

Any house tours in your future?

There is one lot over on Westcliff Road West... with a house on it, but I think it is being marketed for its lot value. Very pricey, as you can imagine, and there have been 2 or 3 new homes in the past couple of years built after razings... wonderful views off of Westcliff, literally along the "west cliff" where Fort Worth suddenly falls down into Tanglewood and lower areas... to the west.

Too, there is a lot over in Berkeley I believe... another very nice area.

I am in the yard all the time, so if you see me, stop by and say hello for a quick tour.

Brad

[Bradleto]

It's about 25-30% (land cost vs. total) in Monticello on most of the new construction I've seen. My home was 32% land cost vs. total, but it's a little smaller than most of what's being built...

On the other hand my original house out in North Fort Worth (a DR Horton special), was about 15% land value based on TAD prices. In reality it was probably less.

Maybe a whole lot less on the DR Horton land prices. I guess that was my point about avoiding commodity-like properties where the big production builders operate. There is sort of a bad Domino effect when one buys into a community building out perhaps a thousand homes in nearby adjacent neighborhoods. It can take years for the builders to get out of the way, and if you need to sell your home in the interim, it is hard to compete against them. But, invariably, a few folks will get transferred or otherwise come out of the homes often at discounted prices, then the comps drop and there is sort of an undertow on the marketability of the existing owner-occupied homes.

I guess the one saving grace is one's property taxes might drop a bit.

My guess is even though you have much more money in dirt now in Monticello, you have much less risk. Too, a smaller home may be a huge advantage with energy prices and being near the business district and not up the highway 45 minutes will further differentiate the two disparate properties.

Wasn't it nice of those who built out Monticello to leave the green spaces and parks throughout the area... lovely.

Brad

[JSJ]

Great info everyone! Thanks!

I live on Modlin and TAD is finally catching up on lot prices.

Here is my appraised land value for the last several years:

2008 - $130,000
2007 - $81,000
2006 - $45,000
2005 - $45,000
2004: $50,000
2003: $50,000

The appraised improvements finally went down this year, as they should, since the house is very old.

We have protested our TAD evaluations for several years, but don’t plan to this year. I had comps run recently and was shocked!

There are several new homes that have been built, or are being built, at the end of my street. There is also a lot owned by Village Homes on my block. I have been told that Village plans to build a spec. house for about $800,000. The cleared lot is selling for approx $300,000. I have also been told that the house will be Tudor, which will fit in very well with the surrounding homes, since we haven’t yet had any other tear-downs on my block. Village does great work and I’m excited about the design.

Needless to say, when we do sell the house, many years from now, we will sell AS IS. It would be nice, however, if the new owners would just do a partial tear-down and try to keep the original part of the house, which was built in 1935. I do understand that may not make a whole lot of economic sense.

[pnewburn]

He used John Millet, the same man who designed my foundation (next door). I like the mix very much as it took an old worn-out structure that needed that contemporary component to frreshen it up. I think it looks great. John used to office on 7th Street.

Brad

Thanks Brad! I didn't know the house next door was yours. Your house is great as well! The site is probably may favorite place in Fort Worth which is why I fought so hard to get your neighbor's house. I've been looking for a good residential architect with similar tastes as my own and I may of found it with John Millet.

Any house tours in your future?

I am pretty sure that John Millet is a structural engineer and not an architect. We have used him for the structural design of a few projects at the architecture firm I work for.

[mmiller2002]

We have protested our TAD evaluations for several years, but don’t plan to this year. I had comps run recently and was shocked!

Where can the average homeowner get comps to compare to what TAD uses?

Thanks

[JSJ]

We have protested our TAD evaluations for several years, but don’t plan to this year. I had comps run recently and was shocked!

Where can the average homeowner get comps to compare to what TAD uses?

Thanks

A real estate agent can run them for you.

[longhornz32]

I am pretty sure that John Millet is a structural engineer and not an architect. We have used him for the structural design of a few projects at the architecture firm I work for.

That would make a little more sense with him helping Brad with just his foundation. I'll do a little more prodding and see if there is an architect involved.

[Bradleto]

I am pretty sure that John Millet is a structural engineer and not an architect. We have used him for the structural design of a few projects at the architecture firm I work for.

That would make a little more sense with him helping Brad with just his foundation. I'll do a little more prodding and see if there is an architect involved.

Oops! I guess that may be correct that John M. is a structural engineer and maybe not an architect per se. I used him to design my foundation and it has worked very well... not a crack or a shift at all in a door, molding, and so forth. He devised my foundation (for an extreme slope) using 26 piers sunk to bedrock depth, then a grade beam poured on the piers and a concrete crosswall section that crosses the width of the foundation for added stability there... I guess. We then framed up and out of the hole in the ground. It is essentially a 2 story house where the upper story is at street level and the lower story is down. Complex and expensive... I am not sure I'd tackle such a project again preferring a flat lot...

For the home to my north, my guess is John M. handled all of the details related to tying in the existing concrete foundation structure to a new foundation poured in what used to be a series of rooms in a pier and beam basement area. The neat ideas such as the big garage doors at the rear of the house that open up to the trees, that may have been the idea of the homeowner. I like the blend of some contemporary elements with the traditional features.

Again, this property wasn't razed, it was just heavily modified and improved, and since it, too, sits on the edge of a slope, the engineering aspects of the job were critical.

*** I fired an Arlington structural engineer before I hired John M. The Arlington man was proposing a "California style" foundation where they just poured heavy foundation blocks without piers, as sort of a heavy ballast to launch up off of, then he had some convoluted scheme using cables to anchor me to the hillside. Heck, all I could see were visions of California homes sliding down the sides of hills on the news over the years. The straw that broke the camel's back, for me, resulting in me firiing him was when his preliminary work had miscalculated beam lengths. I took my loss and moved on... happily.

Brad

[Thurman52]

Today they took down an old house on big lot on the traffic circle in front or Ridglea Country Club.. I hope it's not going to be replatted into smaller lots. I know the N/A rezoned most of that area to big lots, but not sure if it went all the way to the circle

[hannerhan]

In Monticello, I have seen a couple of recent instances of one builder flipping a house or lot to another builder. There was a spec home advertised on Hamilton (still has the teardown on the lot as of now) by one builder for the better part of a year, and then I recently saw another builder's sign on the lot when I was out jogging. TAD has raised the land values so much over the past two years that I think it's a lot tougher for these builders to sit on lots now...so the stronger builders like HGC and Village seem to be ramping up business, where some of the others aren't doing as much right now.

Actual land values in the area don't really seem to have moved much in the past two years. A 50x135 foot lot on 4th-6th streets is still going for $160-180k, with the bigger lots in Monticello moving for $250k to $500k. Lots of houses still coming down on those 3 streets between Westview and Bailey. Unfortunately some builders are still squeezing duplexes in, but most seem to be pretty decent single-family.

[pallen]

This has been a good read. I just found this thread and caught up on the last 2 years of posting, philosophizing, lol

I dont know if the original question of this thread was ever answered - the question of what can we do about this? The solution isnt easy, but I think it comes down to those homeowners in those neighborhoods organizing.

Faimount has been listed as an example, and I have to wholeheartedly agree. This is the reason we chose to build in Fairmount - because we knew the protections in place would limit the scope of what could be put in next door. But Fairmount didnt just happen because builders in Fairmount took a different approach. I dont know all the history, but at some point the homeowners organized and created the historical district and put into place guidelines. It was a lot of work, but I am so greatful to those who took the effort.

This is the "moral" and proper way things should be done. As much as we hate to see bad taste happening in other parts of town, it really isnt up to us to decide how those neighborhoods develop - its up to those who live in those neighborhoods. Different neighborhoods will take different paths and that's what makes a great city great - we get choices.

[Bradleto]

I started this string of posts here two years. Just to clarify a bit, it had nothing to do with "what we can do about this," that is, the razing of old structures and new homes going up in old neighborhoods. It was really more observational in nature and I was just passing along some of what I was/am seeing.

Fairmount... good and bad, I think. So, there, I have finally expressed an opinion. The "bad" is based on something I saw happen several years ago where someone had purchased an old property in Fairmount that was in horrible condition. If I recall correctly, the builder wanted permission to take out an old wood post piered foundation. He was reluctant to improve the upper structures on a flimsy, ancient foundation. The neighborhood fought him pretty hard on the deal. I don't know what the outcome was as I just caught a bit of this on local tv. The "good" is I do agree that neighborhoods can sort through these things pretty well, better for sure than any governmental office or agency can dictate to us what we need.

So, new reports... I noticed a lot for sale over near the little park and the limestone church off of Berry as it wraps around the TCU dorms. I guess that is called Bluebonnet Hills maybe??? Too, I should add that I am uncertain whether a structure was razed there or not... it may be an adjacent lot to a home that is now for sale. Nice TCU area.

Then, about 2 weeks ago, I saw the tell-tale sign of a razing... a big truck zoomed by my home, Midwestern Demolition... something like that. The trucks were carting off a razing. The next day, I realized they had knocked down a small home over on Westcliff Rd N. where Simondale intersects that street. What is odd is there had been a construction crew working on/renovating the little house for many months, too long it seems to be prepping the structure for razing. It looks more like they may have had a change of heart. Not sure. The lot is narrow but another very nice location.

Brad