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800 Car Parking Garage To Go Up on Landmark Tower Site

Downtown Parking Garages New Construction

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#101 youngalum

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 02:34 PM

Money wins and Exxon will have its garage



#102 renamerusk

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 02:55 PM

Money wins and Exxon will have its garage

 

You almost sound jubilant.



#103 John T Roberts

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 09:31 PM

Renamerusk, glass and awnings are part of the oversight that the DDRB has on projects.  Adding these elements to the garage will help its appearance.  That board does not have the power to say what has to be constructed on certain blocks, unless that use is expressly forbidden within the design guidelines for downtown. 

 

A couple of years ago, I did a study on a downtown block for one of our clients who wanted to construct a building with its only function being a use that is forbidden as that stand alone use in the guidelines.  The site didn't lay out very well for that use, and our firm showed them a sketch of the site.  Along with the layout, I sent them the portion of the downtown guidelines that prohibits that type of building.  The client dropped the project.



#104 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 09:35 PM

I'm glad that ugly garage was rejected.

 

If you're going to build a garage next to interesting buildings, please make it look interesting.


- Dylan


#105 youngalum

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 10:16 AM

Renamerusk--it isn't being jubilant but understanding reality



#106 Austin55

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 08:19 AM

The garage does not seem to be on November's DDRB agenda.



#107 Austin55

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 03:14 PM

The garage does not seem to be on November's DDRB agenda.

 

 

It's back for December, hopefully they've spent the past month improving the aesthetics. 

 

http://fortworthtexa...ntownDesign.pdf



#108 JBB

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 03:35 PM

I wouldn't hold your breath on that.

#109 renamerusk

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 07:32 PM

In another thread, XTO Energy was contemplating doing more than an 800-car parking garage...looking for prospective investors/tenants for a Class A office building or a mixed-use structure.  If this is what they're planning, they've obviously fallen short of their expectations.  No office building, no mixed-use project.  And...this garage couldn't hold 800 cars, could it? 

 

I'm really baffled about the motivation behind this project.

 

Out of sense of deference for the employees at XTO, I have been hesitant to make the following observation with natural gas production and commodity price so challenging these days, but how does this project increase the bottom line of XTO.  It is hard for me to believe that street level retail leasing will generate a return to offset the warehousing of 800 automobiles during a 40 hours work week.

 

The loss of return by using this space at 90 - 99 % garage use over developing this space in a combination of a  500-1,000k of Class A leasing space with garage space leaves me shocked and awed in a dumbfound way.

 

Constructing a garage comes with significant costs.  I would think one who want to make it a profitable investment.

 

http://watrydesign.c...a-parking-space



#110 JBB

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 07:49 PM

I'm assuming they make up for some of it by leasing out space and turning loose of other space that they are currently leasing for their employees, but, yeah, figuring out if that ultimately does much for their bottom line is above my pay grade.

#111 renamerusk

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 11:52 AM

It's back for December, hopefully they've spent the past month improving the aesthetics. 

 

http://fortworthtexa...ntownDesign.pdf

 

 

Energy stocks as low as in 2009; and XOM continuing plans for a garage only project for its employees to park their car.

http://www.fortworth...228a71b3b9.html

 

Three of fours corners surrounding Houston St. @ 6th St will be sites of a garage.  What is wrong with this picture? :wacko:

 

Can't we have some of the same "financial luck" that we had for the 6-story Cultural District Hotel project - PLEASE! :P



#112 Austin55

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 05:01 PM

Approved by the DDRB

 

566b4659b11c8.image.png?resize=760%2C412

 

 

:(



#113 Jeriat

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 05:06 PM

 

Wow... that is SO MUCH worse.

comic-book-guy-shrugs.jpg


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#114 Austin55

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 05:09 PM

Just noticed the signs says "Cowtown Place" along the far side there. Feels like Mockery.

 

 

At least the retail will be nice? 



#115 renamerusk

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 05:13 PM

 

Wow... that is SO MUCH worse.

comic-book-guy-shrugs.jpg

 



#116 renamerusk

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 05:17 PM

1,2, 3 actually pictured.  Garage-megadon. 

 

:no: :no: :cry:



#117 John T Roberts

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 05:22 PM

It seems to me that our Downtown Design Standards and Guidelines should be modified to require the parking garages to be disguised to the point that you can't tell that it is a parking garage from a casual glance. 



#118 renamerusk

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 05:39 PM

Rants:

1. Park in JO/Frost Tower Garage and reward them for its design whenever you can.

2. Cheer that the stock price of XOM keeps sliding, although this is a good thing for the retail price of gasoline

3. Whenever you can, patronize the businesses nearby that compete directly with retail businesses at "Cowtown Place"

4. Reserving this space for additional ranting.

4A. Detour to Main Street when approaching this block of Houston/Throckmorton...you will be happier.

4B. Close your eyes when driving by this block; its only 200 feet.

4C. Pretend it does not exist, Thanks Jerait.



#119 Austin55

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 05:42 PM

Rants:
1. Park in JO/Frost Tower Garage and reward them for its design whenever you can.


Should be easy since this garage will be XOM only.

#120 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 12:18 AM

What a shame this is going up in an area surrounded by such nice buildings.

 

At least the first two floors will look somewhat decent.


- Dylan


#121 Jeriat

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 02:50 AM

I mean, just in the rendering you can see two other ugly, boring, dime-a-dozen urban garages. Do we really need another? 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#122 renamerusk

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 06:53 AM

What a shame this is going up in an area surrounded by such nice buildings.

 

At least the first two floors will look somewhat decent.

 

 

I mean, just in the rendering you can see two other ugly, boring, dime-a-dozen urban garages. Do we really need another? 

 

 

I could have handled this if:

 

1. this garage was underground, as is City Place Dallas, and the surface was used as a cafe plaza

2. this garage design was deceptive, as is Sundance West

3. But then I read the following and lost it again -

 

Fort Worth Business Press - The DDRB was pleased with the design changes and agreed that the changes better reflect the character of the retail found on Houston Street, said Sevanne Steiner, senior planner at the City of Fort Worth. 12/11/15

 

And NO!; the street level retail is not decent looking. Its "suburban, drive up to the door" ugly; "in your face" attitude towards four graceful early 20th Century buildings and who unfortunately are its immediate neighbors.

 

1-2-3 and baby makes 4 garages...Jeez!



#123 DrkLts

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 02:55 PM

Hmm, plain looking, but build it 50stories worth in hight to be the world's tallest parking garage! LOL :laugh:



#124 jsfslls

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 03:16 AM

I'm so disappointed at this that I'm at the point of just laughing at the ridiculousness of it all.
 

There's almost a need for someone to contact the DDRB and just be like, "Hey....are you guys alright?"



#125 renamerusk

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 11:33 AM

I suggest that this thread be officially titled "Cowtown Place" as the dagger of insult has been planted in the hopes of so many of us. :angry: 



#126 John T Roberts

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 11:49 AM

Actually, I think all threads relating to the parking garage should be split off into a separate thread.  I don't know if I really want to label it "Cowtown Place", until I know that is the official name of the parking garage.  I would rather just call it "Parking Garage on Landmark Tower Site", or "Parking Garage at 7th and Houston".



#127 Jeriat

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 01:34 PM

I would rather just call it "Parking Garage on Landmark Tower Site", or "Parking Garage at 7th and Houston".

 

I just threw up a little.

From a mid-20th century highrise, to a parking lot, to... that. 

 

bcs.gif


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#128 renamerusk

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 02:27 PM

 

I would rather just call it "Parking Garage on Landmark Tower Site", or "Parking Garage at 7th and Houston".

 

I just threw up a little.

From a mid-20th century highrise, to a parking lot, to... that. 

 

bcs.gif

 

 

 I suggest that we all go down and enjoy for perhaps the last time the excellent panoramic view of one of Downtown's better cityscapes.  As a block with a surface parking lot, LTB in its current state is better by far than what is to come. :no:



#129 youngalum

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 10:36 AM

Was there ever any doubt that ExxonMobil would get its garage?  This is FW and Texas.  What the o&g companies want the o&g companies get.



#130 Mr_Brightside526

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 01:24 PM

Echoing everyone's sentiment, "BOO."

 

What is the point of the DDRB when they approve such a hideous architecture. XTO really needs to find someone to partner with to build on top of the garage in the same way the Frost tower is building on top of its 11 story garage.



#131 Urbndwlr

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 03:00 PM

Agreed that this structure is not beautiful.

I am not a fan of big parking garages because I think they are big dead zones in an otherwise vibrant Downtown, but...

 

Another (more positive) way to look at this:

 

By building 830+ parking stalls in a vertical structure, it provides the supply equal to 7 full city blocks of surface parking.

This will reduce the pressure on the existing surface parking in southern Downtown, hopefully making it easier to develop some of those for more useful purposes.

It also helps make the many office buildings on the southern half of Downtown more viable going forward.  Many of them have little parking and therefore have had a hard time achieving really high occupancy.  I'm not advocating we build a ton of garages - if we do, they should be wrapped better than this one. 

 

John is right - if people feel strongly about making garages look better, we should all provide our commentary to Downtown FW Inc., and see if we can make the standards for garages and lots better.  The DDRB cannot redesign buildings for the developers - they can only enforce the guidelines that are in place.  Its unfortunately still possible to build an ugly building that somehow complies with the guidelines. 

 

I do think the street level design of the redesigned building is better than the original design.  The upper floors are really boring and could have been designed much better.

 

We haven't seen the design of the Houston Street side of the building - only the Throckmorton side.   Does anyone have those so we can see?



#132 Austin55

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 03:14 PM

 

 

We haven't seen the design of the Houston Street side of the building - only the Throckmorton side.   Does anyone have those so we can see?

 

 

This is the original rendering before the DDRB and shows the Houston street side. It does look a bit better than the backside. 

 

 



#133 renamerusk

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 09:22 PM

Agreed that this structure is not beautiful.

I am not a fan of big parking garages because I think they are big dead zones in an otherwise vibrant Downtown, but...

 

Another (more positive) way to look at this:

 

By building 830+ parking stalls in a vertical structure, it provides the supply equal to 7 full city blocks of surface parking.

This will reduce the pressure on the existing surface parking in southern Downtown, hopefully making it easier to develop some of those for more useful purposes.....It also helps make the many office buildings on the southern half of Downtown more viable going forward.  Many of them have little parking and therefore have had a hard time achieving really high occupancy.  I'm not advocating we build a ton of garages - if we do, they should be wrapped better than this one. 

 

 I don't believe that it is realistic to expect those 7 surface parking lots to experience a decline in business; like highways - build more supply to relieve congestion and the result is that you get more congestion.

 

Plus, I don't believe that a developer will rely upon another parking garage to meet its own demand, but would include parking of its own to meet its demand. 

 

Remember, Cowtown Place is not a speculative project but it is a project that is to be largely if not totally assigned to its own employees.



#134 pelligrini

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 10:19 AM

 

Wasn't it first intended to be speculative? The (now dead) link in Austin55's post with a rendering listed the property and the minimum requirements that XOM would guarantee to lease. They did state that plans were ready, but mentioned that the developer could build much more.


Erik France


#135 johnfwd

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 12:13 PM

 

 

Wasn't it first intended to be speculative? The (now dead) link in Austin55's post with a rendering listed the property and the minimum requirements that XOM would guarantee to lease. They did state that plans were ready, but mentioned that the developer could build much more.

 

I'm not exactly sure what "speculative" means relative to this particular project.  But based on early news reports was an implication that this would be more than just a parking garage if the stake holders were able to successfully market it as a mixed-use project--commercial and residential, along with parking spaces.  My guess (stated in a previous post) was that such marketing was not successful, for whatever reason unbeknownst to me, of course.



#136 johnfwd

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 01:13 PM

 

I'm not exactly sure what "speculative" means relative to this particular project....

 

Correct me please if my understanding is wrong about the term "speculative" when used in commercial real estate; but the term may mean that a developer builds a project that exceeds its actual needs, thus speculating that the surplus inventory will be absorbed by leasing to other users. 

 

Jetta Operatings project might qualify as a speculative project.  

 

XOM project, as it was presented, is to meet the parking needs of its employees.  If XOM intentions is to compete with the surrounding surface parking lots, then this makes their project even more ridiculous than it already is.

 

 

You're probably correct in your usage of the term "speculative."  I've heard it used more often when referring to speculative land acquisition--purchasing a tract largely for its potential market value rather than for productive use.

 

Based on my interpretation of early news reports, I didn't get that XOM had parking garage competition in mind at the outset.  I just thought they were hoping to develop a mixed-use project, but that deal fell through.



#137 Austin55

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 01:21 PM

Here's that PDF again from Jones-Lang-LaSalle with the offer terms. (the prior link had died)

 

One thing that stands out to me is the listing of where XTO office space is. 

 

 

1 777 Main Street 60,000

2 Petroleum Building 96,000

3 610 Houston Street 25,000

4 W. T. Waggoner Building 130,000

5 Bob R. Simpson Building 105,472

6 714 Main Street 195,000

7 Bennie G. Kniffen 85,000

8 801 Grove Street 195,000

Total 776,472

 

I'm a bit surprised they didn't decide to vacate buildings they do not have a strong presence in (such as 777 Main) or ones farther away from the site (801 Grove, Kniffen) and integrate new office space into a new central building that would be attached to the garage. Oh well...



#138 Austin55

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 07:52 PM

The fence around the parking lot has been dismantled. Guess this thing will be u/c soon. 



#139 renamerusk

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 07:15 AM

The fence around the parking lot has been dismantled. Guess this thing will be u/c soon. 

 

 Construction soon is such a paradox to me when today's headlines; and a suggestion somewhere here in the Forum, that XOM is doing just fine;  can there still be a demand for employee parking alone with fossil fuel hovering at ten year lows?

 

Fort Worth Business Press -

http://www.fortworth...162e9aebb5.html



#140 johnfwd

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:55 AM

 

The fence around the parking lot has been dismantled. Guess this thing will be u/c soon. 

 

 Construction soon is such a paradox to me when today's headlines; and a suggestion somewhere here in the Forum, that XOM is doing just fine;  can there still be a demand for employee parking alone with fossil fuel hovering at ten year lows?

 

Fort Worth Business Press -

http://www.fortworth...162e9aebb5.html

 

 

Good point.  The big slump in energy prices is bound to have an effect on XOM and company.  Will this parking garage get off the ground?  Not meaning to switch to another thread topic, but maybe its a good thing Jetta Operating Company won over Frost Bank for its project.



#141 Austin55

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 10:16 PM

It's broken ground. 

 

DSC_0735_zpsvwu7zbrv.jpg



#142 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 10:59 PM

The construction project I'm least excited about. Yawn.


- Dylan


#143 johnfwd

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 06:28 AM

Yeah, but 20 years from now, with two, or maybe three, additional high-rise buildings in the FWDT, no one will notice "just another" parking garage. 

 

I often wonder, too, what would happen to all the parking garages if, in the far distant future, an entirely non-auto transit model were implemented in CBDs in Texas and elsewhere.



#144 youngalum

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 12:45 PM

Funny and sad that you say 20 years from now we might have 2-3 new high rise buildings DTFW cause it is true.



#145 Austin55

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 10:36 AM

DSC_0044_zpsw96zowq2.jpg



#146 Jeriat

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 01:52 PM

Might as well change the name of this thread... 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#147 rriojas71

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 10:44 PM

Might as well change the name of this thread... 


Yeah, maybe to something like... "Disappointing & uninspired 8 Story parking garage to replace Landmark Tower"

#148 renamerusk

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 11:03 AM

DSC_0044_zpsw96zowq2.jpg

 

I can't help to believe that this is actually a prelude to something bigger.  It seems to be the only sensible explanation for going forward with this project.

 

By the way, what a blight upon such majestic surroundings. :(



#149 Mr_Brightside526

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 05:26 AM

 

DSC_0044_zpsw96zowq2.jpg

 

I can't help to believe that this is actually a prelude to something bigger.  It seems to be the only sensible explanation for going forward with this project.

 

By the way, what a blight upon such majestic surroundings. :(

 

 

Maybe you are right?

 

XTO sold the building to Houston-based real estate investment firm, Woodbranch Management.

 

No report of any new plans for the lot other than the garage...yet?



#150 renamerusk

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 08:13 AM

Fascinating timing.

 

My conspiracy mode suggests that XTO used its insider's card at City Hall to get the ball rolling along so that  an eventual investor could step in and then do a major project on this prime site.

 

It never made economic sense, IMO, for an O&G company, even XOM/XTO to forego a highest use of the site for the sake of providing free and convenient parking for its employees. I still cannot believe it for a number of reasons.

 

As for the new owner, Woodbranch Management (WBM), here is a report in the Houston Chronicle which shows what WBM is currently doing at a comparable site in Houston and is suggestive as to what could be done in Fort Worth. The garage now underway at Houston@7th Streets can be changed/reinforced to support a multistory high rise. Lets hope so!

 

http://www.houstonch...p#photo-6595882







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Downtown, Parking Garages, New Construction

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