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50 Story to Replace Landmark Tower

Downtown XTO Energy Proposed Tallest Building

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#101 John T Roberts

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 09:09 PM

Posting it is easy, but the photograph has to be uploaded to the web first. If you have a place that can host your images that allows hot linking, then all you have to do is put the URL address between [img] brackets.

#102 mosteijn

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 11:45 PM

Perhaps I should make a "How to Post Pictures" thread over in the photography section one of these days.

#103 John T Roberts

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Posted 26 March 2005 - 12:34 AM

Perhaps I should make a "How to Post Pictures" thread over in the photography section one of these days.

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That sounds like a good idea.

#104 normanfd

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Posted 26 March 2005 - 04:20 PM

John, are you able to modify the board's help file?

#105 SurplusPopulation

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Posted 26 March 2005 - 07:29 PM

I don't have anyway of uploading it to the web, so if I could email it to someone to post I would appreciate it.

#106 John T Roberts

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Posted 26 March 2005 - 08:29 PM

Norman, I haven't tried to modify the help file.

Surplus, e-mail me the photograph.

#107 John T Roberts

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 10:33 AM

John, are you able to modify the board's help file?

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Yes, I can modify it and it is an easy process. We are working on the Board Guidelines and Rules, so we will update the help file at the same time.

#108 Urbndwlr

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 12:43 AM

Austin developer Tom Stacy proposes a 680-ft., 41-story tower one block north of Austin's Frost Bank Tower on Congress Ave. between 5th and 6th Streets. The building would be taller than any in Fort Worth, but presumbaly would not be as tall as the potential 50-story XTO building.

Austin American-Statesman article

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Not going to happen. Get real - why did they even publish that story?

#109 Andrew

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 06:41 PM

This project could get off the ground faster than some of you assume.† Consider that Class A space in downtown is 97% leased and that rates at CC are approaching north of $25/sf.† I cannot remember the BE rate for new construction (20+) stories, but seem to remember that it is somewhere between 25 and 28 (Andrew needs to come back and help me some).† If XTO intends to fill 40% of a 50 story structure, that yields 30 more stories.† So really, their "spec" cost is constructing a 30 story building and not the full 50.† FW's class A market demand just about supports that from a borrowing standpoint.† The difference with XTO (as opposed to why P1 or RS did not "overbuild"), is one of FCF and cash on hand.† XTO very well could build the structure with current assets or at the very least utilizing only bridge debt.

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Tcole,

As you know the real estate capital markets right now are foaming at the mouth for any decent, stable, credit-worthy deal, so I wouldn't be suprised to see a sale-leaseback of the building because of the low cap rates in the real estate market all over the world.

The market's fundamentals are what people will likely question here: modest size of market (about 30 million SF in FW area total, about 12 million SF downtown). I understand historical annual absorption numbers are so volatile they are difficult to use to underwrite the spec space. Will 300,000+ SF of tenants want to pay premium rates to be in this new high rise?

'dweller's right in that XTO, at its projected level of 600 employees should only need about 200,000 SF of office space, and that a 50 story office building would be approximately 1 million square feet. One explanation is that several of those floors will likely be parking.

Here's a scenario to illustrate how much of an impact the parking component has on such a building:

Office:
# Floors: 35
Avg Floor Plate: 22,000 SF
Total Office SF: 748,000 SF

Parking:
Parking Ratio: 1:450 SF
Total # Parking Stalls: 1662
Avg SF per Stall: 320 SF (I think that's pretty tight - assuming some small car spaces)
Avg Parking Floor Plate: 32,500
# Parking Floors Required: 16.5

Total # Floors in building under this scenario: 51 (this ignores retail - assuming it carries same parking ratio as office space, which would pose a problem for restaurants, cafe's etc)

Cost of structured parking: $8,000 - 10,000 per parking stall.
So the cost of the parking garage alone would be $13.3 - 16.6 million.

I don't have all the info necessary to know exactly what rents would be required to support the new construction, but I always assumed it was in the $25 gross range. Right now, concrete and steel prices are very high, which probably has a lot to do with the article's comment that $30+ rates would be necessary.

Those rates aren't outrageously high compared with other cities around the nation and the world. The problem is that our plentiful supply of developable sites outside of downtown will put downward pricing pressure on lease rates. They might still rise dramatically because downtown's appeal appears to be growing (presumably because talented employees prefer to work for companies in the heart of downtown rather than out in a suburban office park somewhere). The encouraging thing is that it appears that the spike in rates in downtown Fort Worth is caused not just by the reduction in supply (removal of class B and C space) but by an increase in demand to be downtown.

#110 Sam Stone

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 07:18 PM

Welcome back, Andrew.

#111 John T Roberts

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 07:28 PM

I thought I recognized a familiar name!

#112 tcole

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:07 AM

Good to hear from you again Andrew. Still in SFO? And did you ever get in touch with my friend at CityCore?

John, I think Andrew needs his post total adjusted to reflect his prior contributions.

#113 SurplusPopulation

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:14 AM

John, did you ever get that picture I sent you of the skyline? If not what email address should I use? Anyone that wants to help me post this email me at stephenwinfield@hotmail.com. (Uh, oh. Now my secret is out; my whole cover is blown.)

#114 John T Roberts

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:25 AM

Surplus, yes I did receive it. I will post it soon.

#115 Willy1

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:45 AM

So, does anyone know how much longer before XTO makes a decision on whether or not FW is getting a gleaming new skyscraper? And, I read in another post... or maybe in this one... that there are also rumors of at least one other 50 story residential project planned in FW... I know someone in here has to have a little information on that project - even if it is just a rumor at this point?

#116 Thurman52

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 04:13 PM

At the Qtrly Baylor Business Luncheon, Bob Simpson CEO of XTO was the speaker and was asked about his plans for downtown. He noted there was a bunch of chatter about a high-rise. He said it was highly unlikely.

He said he would be redoing the Ratkin Building, much like the Baker builing is being restored. He called himself an antique collector and like to restore the old buildings.

#117 apearson28

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 06:06 PM

<_< well great.
pretty much what i expected tho

#118 Willy1

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 07:05 PM

Hmm... well, I guess that trumps my conversation with my brother - who sales finish-out products to construction companies. He said he'd heard that XTO was leaning toward building the new tower... But, if the CEO says it isn't going to happen... Unless that's just a ploy to throw us off his trail.

#119 Urbndwlr

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 12:58 AM

At the Qtrly Baylor Business Luncheon, Bob Simpson CEO of XTO was the speaker and was asked about his plans for downtown. 

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Did Simpson go to Baylor?

#120 tcole

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 03:29 AM

Did Simpson go to Baylor?


Both undergrad and grad school.

#121 cjyoung

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 08:37 AM

At the Qtrly Baylor Business Luncheon, Bob Simpson CEO of XTO was the speaker and was asked about his plans for downtown.  He noted there was a bunch of chatter about a high-rise.  He said it was highly unlikely. 

He said he would be redoing the Ratkin Building, much like the Baker builing is being restored.  He called himself an antique collector and like to restore the old buildings.

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<_< :blink: :huh: :lol: :o

#122 cjyoung

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 08:40 AM

This project could get off the ground faster than some of you assume.† Consider that Class A space in downtown is 97% leased and that rates at CC are approaching north of $25/sf.† I cannot remember the BE rate for new construction (20+) stories, but seem to remember that it is somewhere between 25 and 28 (Andrew needs to come back and help me some).† If XTO intends to fill 40% of a 50 story structure, that yields 30 more stories.† So really, their "spec" cost is constructing a 30 story building and not the full 50.† FW's class A market demand just about supports that from a borrowing standpoint.† The difference with XTO (as opposed to why P1 or RS did not "overbuild"), is one of FCF and cash on hand.† XTO very well could build the structure with current assets or at the very least utilizing only bridge debt.

View Post



Tcole,

As you know the real estate capital markets right now are foaming at the mouth for any decent, stable, credit-worthy deal, so I wouldn't be suprised to see a sale-leaseback of the building because of the low cap rates in the real estate market all over the world.

The market's fundamentals are what people will likely question here: modest size of market (about 30 million SF in FW area total, about 12 million SF downtown). I understand historical annual absorption numbers are so volatile they are difficult to use to underwrite the spec space. Will 300,000+ SF of tenants want to pay premium rates to be in this new high rise?

'dweller's right in that XTO, at its projected level of 600 employees should only need about 200,000 SF of office space, and that a 50 story office building would be approximately 1 million square feet. One explanation is that several of those floors will likely be parking.

Here's a scenario to illustrate how much of an impact the parking component has on such a building:

Office:
# Floors: 35
Avg Floor Plate: 22,000 SF
Total Office SF: 748,000 SF

Parking:
Parking Ratio: 1:450 SF
Total # Parking Stalls: 1662
Avg SF per Stall: 320 SF (I think that's pretty tight - assuming some small car spaces)
Avg Parking Floor Plate: 32,500
# Parking Floors Required: 16.5

Total # Floors in building under this scenario: 51 (this ignores retail - assuming it carries same parking ratio as office space, which would pose a problem for restaurants, cafe's etc)

Cost of structured parking: $8,000 - 10,000 per parking stall.
So the cost of the parking garage alone would be $13.3 - 16.6 million.

I don't have all the info necessary to know exactly what rents would be required to support the new construction, but I always assumed it was in the $25 gross range. Right now, concrete and steel prices are very high, which probably has a lot to do with the article's comment that $30+ rates would be necessary.

Those rates aren't outrageously high compared with other cities around the nation and the world. The problem is that our plentiful supply of developable sites outside of downtown will put downward pricing pressure on lease rates. They might still rise dramatically because downtown's appeal appears to be growing (presumably because talented employees prefer to work for companies in the heart of downtown rather than out in a suburban office park somewhere). The encouraging thing is that it appears that the spike in rates in downtown Fort Worth is caused not just by the reduction in supply (removal of class B and C space) but by an increase in demand to be downtown.

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Andrew, welcome back. <_<

#123 cjyoung

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 08:54 AM

Hmm... well, I guess that trumps my conversation with my brother - who sales finish-out products to construction companies. He said he'd heard that XTO was leaning toward building the new tower... But, if the CEO says it isn't going to happen... Unless that's just a ploy to throw us off his trail.

View Post


Maybe that's why he is quiting soon...the board wants to build and he doesn't.

#124 JBB

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 10:42 AM

Simpson is not quitting. Steffen Palko, president and vice chairman is retiring at the end of the month.

#125 Willy1

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 08:48 AM

I wish we'd hear a yes or no on this one... I really prefer a yes. Hopefully XTO will find it in their civic hearts to do something great for the city and will greenlight this project. I think if we have an announcement like a 50 story XTO tower... it will only fuel the development fire and we'd see more tower announcements. It may just be wishful thinking on my part, however.

#126 cjyoung

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 12:04 PM

Simpson is not quitting.  Steffen Palko, president and vice chairman is retiring at the end of the month.

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:huh:

#127 safly

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 05:31 PM

Is that the same Simpson who got himself involved with a Blue Ribbon steer SCANDAL? Those Baylor folks need to clean up their act. :cheez:

YES or NO, Please! :roflol:

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#128 Willy1

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:02 AM

Anyone hear anything new about whether or not this project is going to happen or not?

#129 David Love

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 10:12 AM

To be honest I wouldn't be too heartbroken if they didn't build a 50 story, but if they do it had better look really cool.

Sacrilege!

I know... to be honest the reasoning is totally aesthetics from my point of view, literally.

Posted Image

#130 mrowl

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 05:28 PM

cool pic... that floor is sweet.

#131 jefffwd

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 06:13 PM

yeah... when is the housewarming party? <_<

#132 Willy1

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 05:08 PM

To be honest I wouldn't be too heartbroken if they didn't build a 50 story, but if they do it had better look really cool.

Sacrilege!

I know... to be honest the reasoning is totally aesthetics from my point of view, literally.

Posted Image

View Post



So, are you saying you'd rather have a view of the ugly Landmark Tower than a new 50 story tower? Or that you'd just rather have the open space? I personally think the FW skyline is sad and needs a new tower to improve the look of the overall skyline. As for looks, I seriously doubt that XTO would build something ugly. Then again, we have several tall buildings that prove that it is possible that XTO would build something ugly... (Burnett Plaza, SBC, Landmark Tower, etc)

#133 David Love

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 09:45 PM

The day that picture was taken it was really hazy, thought I heard that smoke was blowing up from grass fires in Mexico. Think the Dallas skyline is in that direction, not sure if I couldnít see it from the smoke or if itís behind the Landmark Tower. So if I could move a building Iíd choose that one, but since they plan to take it down anywayÖ itís a win / win situation for me. Iíll have an awesome vantage point for the deconstruction and implosion plus a front row seat for what ever gets built. So if itís 20 stories I have an unobstructed view for ďwhateverĒ is in that direction. If they build a 50 story tower, once again, front row seats. Iím stitching together a panoramic shot, itís up to 20 megs in size at the moment.

Was to close in late June, have everything set up to be out of my house then but recently found out I wonít be doing a walk through until July 1st, closing around the 10th maybe. So Iím going to be homeless for a couple of weeks.

Once I have everything built and installed I will be hosting a couple get-togethers. Too bad it won't be over the 4th though.

#134 Willy1

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 08:54 PM

I just checked emporis and they have the new XTO building listed as a proposed building. It seems that there might be a rendering of the building on the site, but I don't have access to the full site. Anyone else have full access and want to report whether or not there is a rendering - or even better - post the pics here? I would if I could....

#135 David Love

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 09:07 PM

I don't see where there should be an image...

it shows that it's 50 stories and proposed.

#136 John T Roberts

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 09:46 PM

There is no rendering. The page for the XTO Tower has a blank spot where the picture should be placed.

#137 RD Milhollin

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 09:40 AM

Here is more grist for the rumor mill. The article is from the June 20 Star Telegram, skip to the bottom if you are not interested in reading about how class A office space is virtually unavailable in Fort Worth, and that class B is leasing at a premium due to supply/demand.

click here

#138 David Love

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 10:14 AM

They've not made a decision on the second Tandy tower yet have they residential or office space?

#139 John T Roberts

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 07:52 PM

David, the Tandy Tower in question is Tower 1. Tower 1 is the north tower. No decision has been made as to whether it will be residential or office.

#140 mosteijn

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 09:34 AM

Man that was a good article. If there's so much demand for office space in DTFW that even class B space is being snapped up quickly, XTO should build this 50 story tower! If they design it just right, the building doesn't have to have that much space (they might even get away with less than a million sf if enough of the floors are parking and retail), but there needs to be large, attractive areas of leasable class A space if FW hopes to land any major relocations downtown. Case in point, that one company that announced it was moving to DFW (can't remember the name) wasn't even considering DTFW because it needed like 200,000 sf of space ready for move-in, and nothing like that exists here now.

#141 Willy1

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 10:37 AM

Johnny, I think the large company that you're referring to is Boeing. They were looking to move out of the Seattle area and DFW was one of the ares they looked at. I think that was in 2003 maybe. They ended up going to Chicago... I believe.

#142 mosteijn

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:27 AM

No no, this was much more recent, last month I think.

#143 Yossarian

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:52 PM

Jonny:

I think you are referencing Fluor. They are an engineering/project management company. They only anticipate moving 100 employees here and possibly hiring another 70. Does not exactly bode for a need for 200,000 sf though, so maybe you are thinking of some other company.

#144 mosteijn

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 01:17 PM

Fluor, that's it! I could have sworn hearing on the news that they were scouting 200,000sf of space, so their most probable choice was going to be Las Colinas due to its outrageous vacancy rate, but I can't find/access any articles to back me up on that :blink: . Oh well, point is that we didn't have the space, so we weren't even under consideration.

#145 John T Roberts

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 04:58 AM

An executive vice president of XTO stated in a Building Owners and Managment Association lunch yesterday that it is now very unlikely that a replacement building will be constructed on the site of the Landmark Tower once it is demolished. Please remember this is nothing that is "official", just a statement by one of their executives, similar to the comment on the 50 story building.

Below is a link to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article:
http://www.dfw.com/m...ss/12291475.htm

He also announced that the company has bought the two story building where the Pour House and Mikado Sushi are located. XTO now owns this entire block and now has three contiguous blocks between 5th and 8th Streets along Throckmorton and Houston. They also own the 1/4 block site of the Baker Building and the 1/2 block site of the Binyon-O'keefe Building. What do you think they are up to?

#146 Thurman52

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 07:07 AM

A parking lot.... wow what fun for downtown

#147 mosteijn

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 07:21 AM

Is parking really the best they could come up with? I kind of liked the idea to turn the lot into a central greenspace for an XTO "campus," hopefully that's what happens with the parking lot if they're not even going to build a midrise.

On the plus side, maybe now developers who have been skeptical about the market supporting more than a 50 story tower will relax a little and maybe even build some new midrise office towers. I know, wishful thinking...

#148 fwpcman

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:22 AM

Hopefully this announcement was part of a gentleman's agreement between the two groups that have the financial resources to construct a large office building, thus allowing the other to go ahead and announce their plans in the near future since the market could only sensibly allow only one large structure. (See topic: BIG NEWS)

#149 cjyoung

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:53 AM

An executive vice president of XTO stated in a Building Owners and Managment Association lunch yesterday that it is now very unlikely that a replacement building will be constructed on the site of the Landmark Tower once it is demolished.  Please remember this is nothing that is "official", just a statement by one of their executives, similar to the comment on the 50 story building.

Below is a link to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article:
http://www.dfw.com/m...ss/12291475.htm

He also announced that the company has bought the two story building where the Pour House and Mikado Sushi are located.  XTO now owns this entire block and now has three contiguous blocks between 5th and 8th Streets along Throckmorton and Houston.  They also own the 1/4 block site of the Baker Building and the 1/2 block site of the Binyon-O'keefe Building.  What do you think they are up to?

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:lol: :wub:

#150 AdamB

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 03:20 PM

unfreakinbelievable!





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Downtown, XTO Energy, Proposed, Tallest Building

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