188 replies to this topic

[renamerusk]

JBB, you're spot on!

 

Interesting admission of sorts by the DMN in that Fort Worth is a genuinely special Texas town Texas that outside people would imagine it to be - not East Coast glamour or West Cost trendy. 

 

Fort Worth encapsulates the Texas DNA.

[JBB]

And I didn't think the DMN piece was bad or insincere or snarky at all. I thought it did a good job of driving home the point that it's not about image. It's about the city reaping what it's sown in development over the last 20 years.

[renamerusk]

..... It's about the city reaping what it's sown in development over the last 20 years.

 

... But I did not read anywhere in the DMN any criticism of sprawl.  I don't believe that DMN is philosophically against sprawl or the emergence of the Planos and Friscos, etc. This sprawl has benefited Dallas in the totality.

 

Down in the opinion piece, stanza 12 or 13, DMN admits that there is some envy of Fort Worth having held onto its heritage.  The headline is recommends that Fort Worth not change or at least be careful in changing.

 

The issue is how Fort Worth can grow its image in the business world while hopefully retaining its heritage.  I think that growth can and will be had when there is a greater diversity of developers who can bring in more businesses that aren't tied to the power group(s) that have been regulating the pace of growth in the past.

[JBB]

I should have been clearer. The DMN piece didn't say that. I added that thought.

[renamerusk]

I should have been clearer. The DMN piece didn't say that. I added that thought.

 

 And you are spot on to identify the problem that Fort Worth has inflicted upon itself.

[Dylan]

To boil this down to a problem of western heritage promotion or to suggest that anyone with a serious understanding of the issue thinks that is a ridiculous oversimplification. There is one large problem at play and one tangential secondary problem: the city has annexed and subsidized its suburban outreaches at the expense of the urban center and has allowed regional efforts to push them to a secondary role. And I would put the first problem as a far more detrimental with the second just amplifying the issue.

 

Really? Northern Dallas suburbia is seeing amazing amounts of new office construction.

 

Aside from American Airlines' new headquarters, Fort Worth is seeing very little new office construction in suburban (or urban) areas.

[JBB]

I'm not just talking about what's under construction right this minute or just commercial space. 20 years of making it cheap to build and live north of 820. Sure, a lot of is industrial, but there's some white collar jobs that could have gone downtown. Or at least if people were living closer in, businesses would have found it more beneficial to build closer in.

[Now in Denton]

Of course DMN were being snarky. We live in a snarky world if you have not notice. You see it everyday between liberals and conservatives. Football teams.  Baby Boomers and Gen X and Millenials. So what else is new ? The story goes that a Dallas reporter saw a sleeping panther. And today we have panthers in high school team. Business. And even on police badges. Amon Carter took a sack lunch if he was in Dallas. One of many football stories goes SMU students cooked FROG LEGS in a skillet when they played TCU. Today we have the battle over the skillet. All Sounds pretty snarky to me. But that is ok. Fort Worth just keeps coming back. I will not lose sleep over it.  

 

I do not agree about "sprawl" is or was the problem. The DMN editorial starts out " These are worrisome times. it seems, for our neighbor to the west" Yet again I point out about twelve years ago. News8 and DMA talked about "Dallas in decline" Don't take my word for it. Google it yourself and read was said about Dallas twelve years ago. 

 

Dallas has not grown its city limits very much in decades. So Dallas had no sprawl to deal with. Yet News8 DMN talked about "worrisome times" "Dallas at the tipping point" twelve years ago. Not to mention that so called sprawl that we call Plano Frisco area could have been a part of Dallas. As said in the book I read. Dallas a history of Big D. By Michael V. Hazel.

 

In the end we have one city that has not grown it city limits much Dallas. And another city that grown and annexed a lot Fort Worth. But both faced hard times and attracting business in its city core. Fort Worth with Mayor Bolen scored big time creating Alliance. I am not saying annexation is the cure all and not without problems. But to say it is the cause ? I don't agree. 

[Thurman52]

Back to the report..... The planning department is certainly causing some of the issues. Spoke to a developer today that is fairly well connected and his comments were he has been planning this new development for over a year now and still trying to get all the departments to align. He predicts another 6 months to be vertical. I personally have had issues in the past few weeks on getting permits approved. The staff is friendly but always leading me to believe their hands are tied. Streamline the process!

[renamerusk]

Back to the report..... The planning department is certainly causing some of the issues. Spoke to a developer today that is fairly well connected and his comments were he has been planning this new development for over a year now and still trying to get all the departments to align. He predicts another 6 months to be vertical. I personally have had issues in the past few weeks on getting permits approved. The staff is friendly but always leading me to believe their hands are tied. Streamline the process!

 

 This seems to be a long standing complaint as it has been chronicled by statements made from outside developers.  Does Fort Worth have a double standard when it comes to outsiders v. insiders?

[JBB]

I've heard the planning department is an equal opportunity pain in the butt - lengthy review and inspection processes compared to much larger cities, poor communication between departments, if planning doesn't route something to the right department within the city for review, there's no accountability and the applicant is blamed, grudge holding and retaliation by the department left out of the loop, selective enforcement of rules, officials not knowing the rules, officials being made aware of the rules and then looking for someone to blame for them not knowing the rules. Insiders v. outsiders? Both. I've even heard about some of the above happening on projects at city owned facilities. I don't doubt that similar circumstances happen in large cities across the country, but I've heard FW singled out for being especially bad.

[Now in Denton]

NBC has two stories about this report. However this from DMN columnist " Fort Worth just embrace your junior status" "Don't worry, though,Fort Worth because Lindenburger (DMN columnist) understandes your plight in wanting to be more like Dallas and has some advice" 

 

He writes some positive things that Fort Worth does better than Dallas. But he and other like him missed the whole point about Fort Worth economic report. It is just that. (ECONOMIC) not about pride ? Well ok, some pride but Fort Worth don't want to be like Dallas any more than Fort Worth wants to become New York City. Or Fort Worth wants to become Collin County for that matter. Because they are beating Fort Worth in white collar jobs also.

 

Fort Worth lost D. R. Horton to Arlington. And soon XTO, a homegrown company to a burb outside Houston. How does that translate to Fort Worth wanting to be like Dallas ? A healthy city needs both blue and white collar jobs. Just Fort Worth is severely lacking in high paying professional jobs. And jobs in general that is not keeping pace with population. Why is that so hard to understand ? 

 

https://twitter.com/...700947322228736

[Fort Worthology]

Fort Worth is going to need to get over this "we don't want to do X because X is something (insert city: Dallas/NYC/Portland/etc.) did and WE AIN'T THEM!" attitude.

 

Incorporating good ideas from other places doesn't meant you're "becoming" a place.

[eastfwther]

This report just confirms what I said on another thread a long time ago, it's a totally different world (economically and development wise) on the Dallas side of the metroplex.  Right now, Plano and Las Colinas have more office space than DTFW as does Dallas office submarkets, Uptown and the 635 corridor. Richardson, North Dallas Tollway Corridor  and the Central Expressway Corridor aren't  far behind (if they haven't surpassed DTFW already).  Fort Worth's love of everything being "slower" over here has left it in Dallas' dust. But I thought that was what we wanted.  It seems Fort Worth claims to want to be nothing like Dallas, yet it desires so much of what Dallas has.  I'm not sure I can say Dallas feels the same way about us.

[renamerusk]

... But I thought that was what w It seems Fort Worth claims to want to be nothing like Dallas, yet it desires so much of what Dallas has.  I'm not sure I can say Dallas feels the same way about us.

 

Your "Dear Leader Dallas" love is in full display. Rabid!

 

Fort Worth still does not want to be like Dallas; and the report nor those who commissioned the report sought or came to the conclusion that you are making.

 

The EDP concludes that Fort Worth should be more aggressive in carving out its share of the region's good fortunes.  Fort Worth should, finds the EDP, exploit its tremendous potential instead of continuing its docile ways of the past.  Fort Worth can be much like other major cities in Texas that are booming; it does not require cloning itself after Dallas.  It requires establishing an image and a plan of "coming out" to the national and international business world.  One important step in doing so is to distinguish itself from other cities in the region; not to be a copy of any one of them. 

 

The glee of saying "I told you so." is nothing more than wishful thinking or the act of a person without a hometown identity or sense of community.

[Now in Denton]

This report just confirms what I said on another thread a long time ago, it's a totally different world (economically and development wise) on the Dallas side of the metroplex.  Right now, Plano and Las Colinas have more office space than DTFW as does Dallas office submarkets, Uptown and the 635 corridor. Richardson, North Dallas Tollway Corridor  and the Central Expressway Corridor aren't  far behind (if they haven't surpassed DTFW already).  Fort Worth's love of everything being "slower" over here has left it in Dallas' dust. But I thought that was what we wanted.  It seems Fort Worth claims to want to be nothing like Dallas, yet it desires so much of what Dallas has.  I'm not sure I can say Dallas feels the same way about us.

 

So when Fort Worth made a investment in Alliance. It was "Fort Worth's love of everything slower" ? Fort Worth wanting to get Amazon HQ2 to facebook. Shows your point is wrong. Yes I agree with you about Dallas building development. I go far as to say it is a Dallas boomtown . But that is something we have know already ? When Radio Shack no sooner built its HQ in downtown the company fizzled out. Almost the same thing happened to Pier One and its 2002 HQ. Loss of more recent DRHorton and XTO. All of those problems and wanting to stop the hemorrhage. And even Fort Worth desire to be in the black in HQ locations. Is somehow Fort Worth "desire" to be like Dallas ? 

[eastfwther]

 

... But I thought that was what w It seems Fort Worth claims to want to be nothing like Dallas, yet it desires so much of what Dallas has.  I'm not sure I can say Dallas feels the same way about us.

 

 

 

The glee of saying "I told you so." is nothing more than wishful thinking or the act of a person without a hometown identity or sense of community.

 

Sure whatever you say. I work in commercial real estate industry so I do have some knowledge in regards to this subject.  The fact that you think this reflects on my hometown identity, whatever that means, is odd, but nonetheless, is of no concern to me. 

[renamerusk]

Sure whatever you say. I work in commercial real estate industry so I do have some knowledge in regards to this subject.  The fact that you think this reflects on my hometown identity, whatever that means, is odd, but nonetheless, is of no concern to me.

 

Yes, you've mentioned your work in commercial real estate industry; and for what part and what singular role you have in Dallas' boom are your prerogatives.  The reflection is all yours based upon posts you have offered in the past; and when I read them, I come to the conclusion, rightly or wrongly, that there are signs pointing to an identity issue, " loathing of the place that you purportedly call home".  Odd to be  "eastfwther" rather than to be "westdallasite", but that frankly is of no concern to me if I may borrow the term.

 

You read "Fort Worth wants to be Dallas".  In Fort Worth's over 150 years and counting, the one thing that has been constant about Fort Worth is that it does not want to be Dallas.

[eastfwther]

 

This report just confirms what I said on another thread a long time ago, it's a totally different world (economically and development wise) on the Dallas side of the metroplex.  Right now, Plano and Las Colinas have more office space than DTFW as does Dallas office submarkets, Uptown and the 635 corridor. Richardson, North Dallas Tollway Corridor  and the Central Expressway Corridor aren't  far behind (if they haven't surpassed DTFW already).  Fort Worth's love of everything being "slower" over here has left it in Dallas' dust. But I thought that was what we wanted.  It seems Fort Worth claims to want to be nothing like Dallas, yet it desires so much of what Dallas has.  I'm not sure I can say Dallas feels the same way about us.

 

So when Fort Worth made a investment in Alliance. It was "Fort Worth's love of everything slower" ? Fort Worth wanting to get Amazon HQ2 to facebook. Shows your point is wrong. Yes I agree with you about Dallas building development. I go far as to say it is a Dallas boomtown . But that is something we have know already ? When Radio Shack no sooner built its HQ in downtown the company fizzled out. Almost the same thing happened to Pier One and its 2002 HQ. Loss of more recent DRHorton and XTO. All of those problems and wanting to stop the hemorrhage. And even Fort Worth desire to be in the black in HQ locations. Is somehow Fort Worth "desire" to be like Dallas ? 

 

I'm not totally sure of your point.  I will say that Alliance has been a wonderful development for Fort Worth.  However, Alliance is mostly industrial and warehouse space.  There is very little office space there, especially when considering the size of it, so it doesn't come up often in office space or white collar job discussions.  As far as Radio Shack, Pier One and DR Horton, every city experiences things like that and that's nothing new.  And Fort Worth is slow in regards to office development and jobs. That was the very summary of the STUDY..so??  But my comment about FW wanting to be like Dallas is something I guess you misunderstood and I probably phrased it poorly.  My issue is does FW want to be a cowboy town or a big city?   Don't tell me you can be both, because with Dallas next door,  you really can't. Part of Dallas' success is that it doesn't have an identity crisis. It's always wanted to be a big modern city and continues working to be one. The city's ambition has spread right into it's surrounding areas and that area not only dwarfs this one, but is one of the largest business centers in the country.  Dallas is mentioned in the same conversations as NY, Chicago, Houston and LA. Yet, our mayor says people still have no idea where Fort Worth is. What does that tell you?   What that study is saying is that Fort Worth has a giant next to it that is still growing and it 's time for Fort Worth to **** or get off the pot.  

[eastfwther]

 

Sure whatever you say. I work in commercial real estate industry so I do have some knowledge in regards to this subject.  The fact that you think this reflects on my hometown identity, whatever that means, is odd, but nonetheless, is of no concern to me.

 

Yes, you've mentioned your work in commercial real estate industry; and for what part and what singular role you have in Dallas' boom you claim is your perogative.  The reflection is all yours based upon posts you have offered in the past; and when I read them, I come to the conclusion, rightly or wrongly, that there are signs pointing to an identity issue, " loathing of the place that you purportedly call home".  Odd to be  "eastfwther" rather than to be "westdallasite", but that frankly is of no concern to me if I may borrow the term.

 

You read "Fort Worth wants to be Dallas".  In Fort Worth's over 150 years and counting, the one thing that has been constant about Fort Worth is that it does not want to be Dallas.

 

Well you seem to be much more concerned with me than I am with you. I don't even look at your screen name. But I do mostly  only read and reply to posts about office and job developments. So I don't really care about much else (like how old Fort Worth is) , nor do I post much, so that gives you plenty of threads where I don't post and months without me posting at all, so it seems I'm pretty easy to avoid.I hate to see you wasting your time on someone who likes sticking to the subject and not interested in arguing about who loves Fort Worth more.  I think it's you who is always trying to bait me into that argument and it never works. I simply don't care. Ignore my posts and you'll sleep better. 

[Dylan]

This report just confirms what I said on another thread a long time ago, it's a totally different world (economically and development wise) on the Dallas side of the metroplex.  Right now, Plano and Las Colinas have more office space than DTFW as does Dallas office submarkets, Uptown and the 635 corridor. Richardson, North Dallas Tollway Corridor  and the Central Expressway Corridor aren't  far behind (if they haven't surpassed DTFW already).  Fort Worth's love of everything being "slower" over here has left it in Dallas' dust. But I thought that was what we wanted.  It seems Fort Worth claims to want to be nothing like Dallas, yet it desires so much of what Dallas has.  I'm not sure I can say Dallas feels the same way about us.

 

Fort Worth doesn't specifically desire Dallas amenities; Fort Worth desires large "metro anchor" amenities.

 

Dallas happens to be one of many large metro anchors with amenities that Fort Worth desires.

 

 

EDIT: It's worth noting that Fort Worth already has metro anchor amenities and infrastructure.

[Jeriat]

I don't get why people think trying to improve basic necessities of what EVERY major city has is "trying to be like Dallas"... Dallas ain't the only other city in the world, you know. 

[renamerusk]

Well you seem to be much more concerned with me than I am with you. I don't even look at your screen name. But I do mostly  only read and reply to posts about office and job developments....  I think it's you who is always trying to bait me into that argument and it never works. I simply don't care. Ignore my posts and you'll sleep better.

 

I read every post. One post stands out in particular in the Fort Worth Forum which I don't believe has ever been posted and read "I have never been to Downtown Fort Worth"; the post was a stupifying comment from someone who professes to be from Fort Worth.  I sensed at the time that there was some sort of pathology going on.  Sure enough, the opportunistic derision of Fort Worth has continued.

 

But to concerning myself with posts, I am not any more concerned with you than I am with of any other member who takes the time to express their thoughts. Frequent posting members weigh in on a variety of topics and by doing so demonstrate a real interest in Fort Worth.  I have noticed that your infrequent posts can be generally described have been opportunities to "kick or rub dirt in the face of Fort Worth by praising Dallas to all who may be within an ear" and that you never, even as infrequently as you post, miss that opportunity when you feel that you just can not resist drubbing Fort Worth.  Are you Mayor Rawlings or one of his minions?

 

The EDP was a sobering analysis.  It is to be taken seriously.  It was never intended as a plan to do what Dallas does; it pointed out that several communities in North Texas have been quite successful in projecting themselves beyond the region. Even Dallas has been shorted by suburbs who have landed corporations that Dallas coveted but lost.

 

Never works? [Baiting]  Obviously, if ignoring your post will aid my sleep then that is good advice. And in the spirit of giving good advice, if you can ignore your next inclination to express in glowing terms that Dallas is superior to Fort Worth; you'll post better.

[renamerusk]

 

(1) ....  It seems Fort Worth claims to want to be nothing like Dallas, yet it desires so much of what Dallas has.  I'm not sure I can say Dallas feels the same way about us.

 

(2) Fort Worth doesn't specifically desire Dallas amenities; Fort Worth desires large "metro anchor" amenities....Dallas happens to be one of many large metro anchors with amenities that Fort Worth desires.

 

EDIT: It's worth noting that Fort Worth already has metro anchor amenities and infrastructure.

 

 

 (1) Full blown narcissism. " Mirror, mirror on the wall..." stuff.  How Dallas feels about us is that it want Fort Worth to shut up and stay in its place.  It only counts us in when it wants to be "bigger than Houston." 

 

(2) Damn right!  There are many large metro cities that Fort Worth can model itself after; can grow while retaining its character and history; and can remain somewhere special other then simply being a job magnet where people come in at morning to work and leave from in the evening to live. What city wants to be that anymore?

 

I think the EDP is a godsend.  It will hopefully guide Fort Worth to becoming similar to Seattle and Austin as the recommendations are coming from people who now work and reside in those two cities.  Fort Worth has the bones (Stockyards/Downtown/Arts) to be a unique place.

 

Kudos to Dallas, but thank you, no to desiring to be yall;  a city of jobs and little else.

[tamtagon]

... Frequent posting members weigh in on a variety of topics and by doing so demonstrate a real interest in Fort Worth.  I have noticed that your infrequent posts can be generally described have been opportunities to "kick or rub dirt in the face of Fort Worth by praising Dallas to all who may be within an ear" and that you never, even as infrequently as you post, miss that opportunity when you feel that you just can not resist drubbing Fort Worth.

 

Whatever! I read this last night and my eyes are still rolling this morning. 

 

Frequency (or infrequency) of posting does not necessarily gauge the realness of a participant's interest in Fort Worth. This obsessive paranoia over non-negative comments about Dallas is unhealthy, unproductive and hints at the quagmire Fort Worth finds itself in today. Maybe, the report should've come with a cushioning preface for all the pride-hurt Fort Worth Boosters forewarning a decade of compare/contrast exercises focused on the successes found in Dallas and Collin County. The process will be germane to economic growth and is not inherently insulting to Fort Worth. 

 

You want Fort Worth to grow more similar to Seattle and Austin? 

[youngalum]

I say it right now--promote tourism is fine and dandy for what it is.  Promoting the City in economic development with cows and western heritage isn't going to get FW anywhere in white collar job development.  If it did, FW wouldn't have this issue in the first place.

 

I've said it before, we have too many FW developers who are more interested in developing warehouses and not Class A buildings.  Thankfully, most of the recent development have come to FW from outside folks wanting to invest in FW despite local developers.  In fact, when the outside developers come in, they front most of the money to do the development as even the local guys are reluctant to do so--with some notable exceptions that have partnered with outside FW developers.

 

Tourism is fine, but if tourism is the only avenue of employment, we will continue to have $12/hour jobs over the good paying jobs that fuels growth.

[renamerusk]

 

... Frequent posting members weigh in on a variety of topics and by doing so demonstrate a real interest in Fort Worth.  I have noticed that your infrequent posts can be generally described have been opportunities to "kick or rub dirt in the face of Fort Worth by praising Dallas to all who may be within an ear" and that you never, even as infrequently as you post, miss that opportunity when you feel that you just can not resist drubbing Fort Worth.

 

Whatever! I read this last night and my eyes are still rolling this morning. 

 

Frequency (or infrequency) of posting does not necessarily gauge the realness of a participant's interest in Fort Worth. This obsessive paranoia over non-negative comments about Dallas is unhealthy, unproductive and hints at the quagmire Fort Worth finds itself in today.

 

You want Fort Worth to grow more similar to Seattle and Austin? 

 

 If one only comes in to beat one's drum about one's own good fortune when someone is undergoing a reflection on its situation, then yes, it is somewhat a gage of one's sincerity.   It is not obsessive to dislike a opponent spiking the football in your home town end zone.  If the participant were truly desirous of offering constructive consideration or  instead of bragging,  there could be greater tolerance for that kind of individual.  As of now, the only thing that has been frequent is verse after verse of condemnation. 

 

Please, be specific and point out the quagmire that you find Fort Worth to be in today.

 

As I see it, Fort Worth commissioned a report to reflect upon its image and to come up with a strategy to project itself more aggressively and positively; and this somehow ignited the ever ready gang of Dallas Boosters to believe that it was praise and admiration for themselves.  The EDP did not conclude that Fort Worth should be like Dallas; it recommended that the City takes itself more seriously.  What counts as obsessive paranoia is Dallas' boosters think that they have the model that every other city desires - that is snorting fool's gold.

 

Yes, the consultants are based in Seattle and Austin; it is noteworthy that a Dallas firm was not even considered to do the EDP and that should say volumes to those who are having a heyday believing that Fort Worth desires to be more Dallas.

 

I have gone out of my way to praise Dallas for its miraculous growth.  You will not find many in Fort Worth who finds it necessary to opine upon Dallas when it does not affect Fort Worth.  We could suggest that Dallas be more like Fort Worth in retaining some semblance of history and culture; that is exactly the envy that the DMN expressed in its pages in regards to the EDP.

 

The road ahead for Fort Worth is long, but as the EDP concluded, the resources (land) and favorable climate (Texas) can enable Fort Worth to move up in the national and somewhat more difficult global stages.  The worm will turn; perhaps not in the immediate time, but it will only take a spark to create a fire, but sometimes it seems that outsiders are more than eager to pour water on any efforts for that to happen.

[elpingüino]

Related to the economic development plan, Bud Kennedy wrote a long article called "Heres how to fix Fort Worth. (Its not about Dallas, or pilots, or the cow.)"
http://amp.star-tele...e194550804.html

[Austin55]

I really liked that article. Don't disagree with anything.

[JBB]

Good stuff.  Bud definitely represents the middle ground between "there's nothing wrong" and "the sky is falling".

[tamtagon]

http://amp.star-tele...e194550804.html

 

 

...the plan also mentions how Fort Worth is not considered warm or welcoming to outsiders, particularly not to immigrants or young people, meaning talented artists, musicians, actors and professionals....

 

 

 

Stuck in the mud, cutting off the nose to spite the face. Two unfortunate idioms that apply to governance in many Tarrant County cities.   

 

Municipal leadership all across Tarrant County struggles to allow change, maintaining things the way they are. The Good Ole Boy Network works hardest to keep out competition. This "network" remains stronger in Fort Worth than any other big city in Texas and has successfully upheld the accomplishments, innovations, advancements to be found in Fort Worth to 1980s standards.  We are not in Missouri (eg) with primary population centers Kansas City and St Louis growing just a little bit every year. Big cities in Texas grow just a little bit every month. 

 

The Metroplex competition with Dallas brought two cities to prominence; the economic meltdown of the 1980s eliminated so many long term plans, systems, relationships.... Scorched earth with nothing new growing and no prospects on the horizon. The whole region hunkered down to weather the storm. By the 90s, Fort Worth and Dallas were still reeling without an action plan while Richardson/Plano and Irving figured out a new way and that new way has coalesced the second and third largest employment centers in the area. 

 

As the region's two downtown's began to wake up, Downtown Dallas existed a pitiful, unorganized, unfriendly suburban office campus unfashionably squeezed into an urban setting. Fort Worth found relaxing and enjoyable success within the Sundance Square bunker. Since the turn of the century, the Good Ole Boy Network leadership control in Dallas has been whittled away, and the city is booming. Fort Worth is about the same, on the verge of decades long growth.... but still teetering of the line between the good old days and better days ahead.

 

Back to the quote from the STelegram opinion piece.... as a nice, inviting and urban destination Sundance Square anchors downtown Fort Worth in a walkable residential neighborhood or daytrip. During the first part of my decade in Denton, my gang would go to Fort Worth and Dallas about the same. My gang comprised of artists, musicians, thespians, and aimless richkids.... During the second part of my decade in Denton, my gang would only go to Fort Worth for museum activities. Deep Ellum was surging and swelling to it's breaking point, and there was nothing in Fort Worth. The handful of time a group of us would go downtown, we did not feel very welcome. We certainly looked different, and that got some strong stares. No reason to go back. I lived a decade in Dallas, and the gang would make the trip to Fort Worth every couple months --- to get out of town because Dallas was growing too small, too pretentious. Fort Worth was a wonderful diversion, but visits to the 'city' were limited to museums and parks. Only the Water Gardens and 8.0 were downtown options, and even 8.0 had a slight feeling of animosity toward a bunch of "weirdos".

 

The bones of downtown are outstanding, but until the mentality of it's leaders evolves out of the Leave It to Beaver era, change will be as slow as molasses in winter. Politically, Texas operates as one of very conservative states. Gerrymandering does it's job. Democrat versus Republican and vice versa: a terrible way to improve communities, but the 20th century Democratic strangle hold needed to be undone, and now the Republican strange hold needs to be undone. It's all business as usual. whatever. But, among big cities in Texas, Fort Worth lags far far far behind the others as an agent of change. Social and community growth is rooted in the cities, and all cultures are led by the concentrated populations of cities. Fort Worth is being held back. 

 

The 400 page study is the start of a new Fort Worth. It'll take a decade, but the change is inevitable. How quickly the city begins expensive municipal investments that have few short term and mostly long term results is the fulcrum.   

[Dylan]

There are a few things I disagree with Bud Kennedy on:

 

He says Dallas is one of Fort Worth's greatest assets. Aside from DFW Airport, Dallas is more of a detriment. Developers often ignore Fort Worth because they see us as a distant satellite of Dallas.

 

Later, he says Fort Worth should take a cue from Arlington to attract visitors and development. Did he really just suggest that Fort Worth emulate a transit-less suburb with no urban core?

 

When talking about transit, he implies rail will become obsolete soon, and points to rideshare. I'm fine with future technology supplementing traditional fixed-route transit, but the former should not replace the latter. Traditional transit has fixed stops and schedules that you can plan around. You show up at a designated location at a designated time, and don't have to use a smartphone app or request a ride. Finally, traditional transit vehicles (buses and especially trains) carry far more people at a time than cars and vans.

[JBB]

Arlington has nice development happening in the downtown/UTA area, but I agree that there's not a lot for FW to glean from that.

 

Looking to Uber/Lyft/rideshare as a mass transit alternative is silly.  I look at it as a convenience for people that would still be in a car if they didn't use the service.  The best benefit it provides is a cheap alternative for people that are drinking and shouldn't be driving.  It doesn't provide the affordable alternative that mass transit should and can provide.  It can be affordable for short trips, but the cost escalates quickly as the distance increases.  (I say this after driving for Uber in the past.)

[Dylan]

Arlington does subsidize their new rideshare service, but it's restricted to certain parts of the city. You can't take it to or from Fort Worth or Dallas.

[Now in Denton]

Fort Worth chamber "four year plan" https://twitter.com/...427711007100929

[Austin55]

Seems encouraging. There's been so much talk lately. Reminds me of the study that we needed more hotels in downtown, and look what happened after, 1 is open, 2 are U/C, and several more are proposed. It will be interesting to watch these studies leave the paper and turn become tangible, physical benefits in the coming years.

[Now in Denton]

Start a new post ? Post here about Fort Worth economic development ? Or use the Amazon post ? Oh heck here for now. Apple is looking for a second HQ ! https://twitter.com/...743376808951808

[Dylan]

Not quite- Apple is looking for a "second corporate campus." Still, Fort Worth would greatly benefit from such a campus.

 

Note to Mr. Gengelbach and the Fort Worth Chamber- Bid separately from Dallas.

 

Associating ourselves with Dallas isn't helping us attract companies. If anything, it's preventing us from standing out.

[JBB]

Given Tim Cook's political leanings, I would be pretty surprised if the Apple campus ended up in Texas.

[Now in Denton]

Not quite- Apple is looking for a "second corporate campus." Still, Fort Worth would greatly benefit from such a campus.

 

Note to Mr. Gengelbach and the Fort Worth Chamber- Bid separately from Dallas.

 

Associating ourselves with Dallas isn't helping us attract companies. If anything, it's preventing us from standing out.

 

Agreed. That was one of many issues I had with Mr.Kennedy weekend FWST article. Point 4 "Learn to love DFW"  Not that I am against some regional efforts from time to time. For example. Fort Worth and Dallas water departments. Are working together and building a new water pipeline for both cities and sharing the cost. But this model has not worked very well for Fort Worth corporate relocations. 

[Austin55]

 

The City of Fort Worth Department of Financial Management Services administers the City's Public Improvement Districts (PIDs) in accordance with Chapter 372 of the Texas Local Government Code. The City's PID Policy outlines the need to proactively work with the PID managers to oversee the services being provided by the PIDs and their associated financial positions. Staff, along with the contracted PID management companies, have conducted mid-year reviews of the annual budget and will recommend adjustments, as needed.

 

The City contracts with Downtown Fort Worth, Inc. (DFWI) to manage the Downtown PID. DFWI has identified the need to increase the marketing and research budget due to a new campaign to promote the central business district. This campaign would be focused on downtown as an excellent place to relocate high density Class A headquarters office space. On February 14, 2018, the Downtown PID advisory board recommended $90,000.00 to be funded by the Downtown PID to pay for preliminary work associated with the marketing campaign, which includes research, message development, artwork, copy writing, and media research.

 

Furthermore, DFWI has additional revenue generated within the Downtown PID from previous years in the amount of $347,570.00, and $500.00 in interest earnings from that revenue, that will more than cover the additional $90,000.00 expense under the Marketing and Research line item in the budget. 

[Austin55]

Some nice data from JLL showing where emoyeers live vs where they work,

http://sixtybyeighty...are-they-going/

144,000 Tarrant County residents go to Dallas County for work.

[txbornviking]

Some nice data from JLL showing where emoyeers live vs where they work,

http://sixtybyeighty...are-they-going/

144,000 Tarrant County residents go to Dallas County for work.

 

this is really great info

[Doohickie]

Not surprising.  A key is to remember than Tarrant Co. =\= Fort Worth... and that of the counties compared, Fort Worth is less of a "bedroom community" county than Denton or Collin Counties (i.e., closer to being balance with Dallas Co. than the other two).  A positive way to spin the disparity though is to say that people work in Dallas County but choose to live in Tarrant.

[george84]

Not surprising.  A key is to remember than Tarrant Co. =\= Fort Worth... and that of the counties compared, Fort Worth is less of a "bedroom community" county than Denton or Collin Counties (i.e., closer to being balance with Dallas Co. than the other two).  A positive way to spin the disparity though is to say that people work in Dallas County but choose to live in Tarrant.

 

I can't speak for others, but this is the case for me. I moved to Fort Worth 8 years ago when my wife was accepted to UNT Health Science Center for PA school, and I've commuted daily to the Irving/Coppell area ever since. My life would probably be easier if I moved closer to work, but I personally would never want to live in Dallas and love living in Fort Worth. 

[Doohickie]

[John T Roberts]

George84, I delighted that you like it here.

[renamerusk]

George84, I delighted that you like it here.

 

 G84, did the image of Fort Worth being a "cowtown" cause any hesitation on your parts; and how do you explain it to your friends/relative that you left behind?

[george84]

 

George84, I delighted that you like it here.

 

 G84, did the image of Fort Worth being a "cowtown" cause any hesitation on your parts; and how do you explain it to your friends/relative that you left behind?

 

 

That's a good question. To be honest, before I moved to Fort Worth I didn't know too much about it. That probably won't surprise a lot of you, as the topic of Fort Worth being considered a glorified suburb of Dallas has been discussed at length on this message board. Even though I am from Texas, I still didn't know much. I grew up in Houston, so I was conditioned to hate Dallas from birth. Once I got to Fort Worth, I realized that people here feel the same way, which I have relayed to my friends and family back home. I make it clear to them that Fort Worth is not Dallas, and doesn't want to be. All of my friends from Houston that have come to visit me have left with a great impression of the city. They can't believe how good of a deal I got on my home in the cultural district, and how everything is so close to where I live. I didn't even really know about the Cowtown image before I moved here, so I can't say it caused hesitation. Not that I had much choice anyway, because I told my wife (then girlfriend) that I would find a new job and move wherever she got in. It was almost Midland. I am so glad she got accepted here after initially being waitlisted. Our original plan was to move back to Houston after 3 years, but here I am 8 years later. Two kids and a mortgage, I think I'm here to stay. 

 

That being said, the Cowtown image probably wouldn't have deterred me too much. I'm of Middle Eastern descent, but I've lived in Texas my whole life and have never had anything happen to me that I would classify as discriminatory or anything like that. I'm an Aggie, so if I was at home in College Station for 4 years, Fort Worth wouldn't seem too country to me. Just in the time I've been here, the city has become more vibrant, more urban, and I love keeping up with everything on this forum. I'm still close enough to home to go frequently, and other than friends/family, the only thing I miss sometimes is the abundance of tall buildings and the skyline. But hopefully some of this development will continue and we can see Fort Worth's skyline grow in the coming years!

[renamerusk]

Thank you G84; that was so inspiring for me to read.

 

 Unfortunately, it can come across as Fort Worth having a hate for Dallas. Hate is such a powerful and negative word. For me, I feel some frustration that Fort Worth is a mystery to even in other places within Texas; and frankly, Fort Worth owns a lot of the responsibility for the way it is viewed. 

 

Dallas is a tremendously successful city; and has achieved its stardom with hard work.  Fort Worth now must step up its game; not to ever eclipse Dallas, but to shine in its own distinctive way. 

 

If you are emblematic of the new people coming to Fort Worth,  then I feel fairly comfortable in saying "that once you come here, you probably will not want to leave".