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T&P Warehouse Redevelopment

Downtown Historic Buildings Lancaster Corridor Historic Preservation

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#351 renamerusk

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 11:29 AM

 

T&P Warehouse... you're next! [ Westchester Tower Implosion]

 

 I really disagree.

 

While T&P Warehouse is currently under the ownership of a absentee landlord, the building is a historical piece of the City and plays an important part in the life of Downtown.  The City will out last the shameful actions of the current owners and will step up at the appropriate time to preserve the building's importance to the Lancaster Corridor. 

 

What the City must do in the interim is to force the owners to maintain the integrity of the building!

 

Just this week at SXSW, technology companies are touting Fort Worth as becoming a unique and favorable center for information storage.  I hope and believe that the T&P Warehouse can someday takes its place as a climate controlled storage site for current and future data storage companies, both large, small and startups.

 

Until then, the City should be patient yet firm in its dealings with the current ownership; and "Do not throw the baby out with the bath water".

 

 

  (moved to this thread)



#352 arch-image

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 03:19 PM

I watched the Historic Commission meeting on T&P.

A lot of work was done to bring up to code, Water removed, the faux windows, environmental abatement in the interior. A lot more needs to be done, however. They claim to have spent $1 million in past year.

The windows were not approved by the Historic Commission and aren't code compliant...

No timeframe for a full restoration schedule was given, despite being asked. A 5 year time frame was thrown out a few times. Evidently the thing has no funding. The owner wants to go back to the city for incentives in the future. Sounds like it will be mothballed for a while more.

 

I would call huge BS on the money they say they have spent this year unless they did a ton of abatement this year which I don't think they have. Pump the basement and hook the pumps back up, 10k, the plastic mock windows, 1300 windows @ 250 ea 325k and i Don't think they have done ALL of them. 



#353 Fort Worthology

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 10:15 AM



 

 

 

I would call huge BS on the money they say they have spent this year unless they did a ton of abatement this year which I don't think they have. Pump the basement and hook the pumps back up, 10k, the plastic mock windows, 1300 windows @ 250 ea 325k and i Don't think they have done ALL of them. 

 

 

 

The owner of the T&P Warehouse stretching reality/the truth?

 

nZVYmcd.jpg


--

Kara B.

 


#354 Austin55

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 02:14 AM

A bit of development inspiration - Crosstown Concourse in Memphis. Restored mixed use project in a former 1.5 million sqft Sears warehouse and store that opened last year.

 

https://marketurbani...town-concourse/

 

https://en.wikipedia...stown_Concourse

 

Crosstown Concourse features retail stores and restaurants on the first floor; fitness, health, arts, education, and office space on floors two through six, plus 270 apartments occupying floors seven through ten.

 



#355 renamerusk

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 05:33 AM

 

A bit of development inspiration - Crosstown Concourse in Memphis. Restored mixed use project in a former 1.5 million sqft Sears warehouse and store that opened last year....

 

 Incredible! One of the most inspirational finds in a long, long time.  This is the precisely why calling for the razing of the T&P Warehouse is and would be tantamount to an act of high misdemeanor. (See Post #351)

 

If somehow the City could get a glimpse at this restoration, perhaps it will become inspired too. 

 

T&P is a  raw diamond waiting to be cut and polished.



#356 mmmdan

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 10:08 AM

They totally should have blown a hole through the middle of it to allow cars to pass through.  Big missed opportunity.  :)



#357 Dylan

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 11:42 AM

 

A bit of development inspiration - Crosstown Concourse in Memphis. Restored mixed use project in a former 1.5 million sqft Sears warehouse and store that opened last year.

 

https://marketurbani...town-concourse/

 

https://en.wikipedia...stown_Concourse

 

Crosstown Concourse features retail stores and restaurants on the first floor; fitness, health, arts, education, and office space on floors two through six, plus 270 apartments occupying floors seven through ten.

 

 

 

Now that's pretty darn cool!


-Dylan


#358 txbornviking

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 12:35 PM

They totally should have blown a hole through the middle of it to allow cars to pass through.  Big missed opportunity.  :)

 

post #127 shows that as a supposed proposal from Cleopatra...

http://www.fortworth...pic=4259&page=3



#359 Austin55

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 01:14 PM

Sarcasm font  :smwink:



#360 johnfwd

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 05:08 AM

I just wish the building gets renovated and occupied in my lifetime.



#361 renamerusk

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 05:17 PM

And yet another example for why the T&P Warehouse is worth preventing it from being demolished -

 

https://www.bdcnetwo...ies-and-gensler

 

All anyone can say is that Fort Worth has something amazing and worth taking back if necessary. 

 

Would it be a good idea to flood the email boxes of the Mayor and Council with renderings of comparable redevelopments going on in other cities?



#362 johnfwd

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 11:03 AM

And yet another example for why the T&P Warehouse is worth preventing it from being demolished -

 

https://www.bdcnetwo...ies-and-gensler

 

All anyone can say is that Fort Worth has something amazing and worth taking back if necessary. 

 

Would it be a good idea to flood the email boxes of the Mayor and Council with renderings of comparable redevelopments going on in other cities?

 

Interesting.  The circa 1930s architectural design of the old Chicago post office building is similar to the T&P Warehouse here.  It's a good redevelopment plan; hope for Chicagoans that it succeeds.  And, yes, the owner of the T&P should have taken positive action but has been neglectful.



#363 renamerusk

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 09:28 AM

Interesting.  The circa 1930s architectural design of the old Chicago post office building is similar to the T&P Warehouse here.  It's a good redevelopment plan; hope for Chicagoans that it succeeds.  And, yes, the owner of the T&P should have taken positive action but has been neglectful.

 

 Two things for certain:

 

 (1) There is no shortage of examples of T&P Warehouse redevelopments underway or proposed in other cities

 

 (2) The owner excuses for not finding developers ring hallow.  Until incentives to carry T&P Warehouse as a taxable deduction are addressed, the owner I imagine will probably continue to use it as a write-off.



#364 JBB

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 11:58 AM

No need to look for examples in other cities.  Giant hole in the facade, smaller size, and accompanying big box retail notwithstanding, the Montgomery Wards building is a little over a mile away and is a fine example of redeveloping a massive warehouse building.



#365 johnfwd

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:20 PM

Right.  And, as well recall, the T&P Warehouse owner had proposed to use the Montgomery Plaza model for the Warehouse rehab.  I'm not crazy about buildings carved in half, but I suppose the Montgomery Plaza's business is prospering.



#366 RD Milhollin

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 03:23 PM

The Chicago building seems to have an expressway running through it... of course that was likely part of the original design.



#367 Austin55

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 07:49 PM

A resident of the Omni shared photos of work on the rooftop

https://www.instagra...d=17hxa2rp3kvsd

#368 John T Roberts

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 08:22 PM

The city has been requiring the owner to bring the building up to minimum building standards for an unoccupied building, which includes a waterproof seal on the building envelope.  This includes a new roof.



#369 Austin55

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 10:19 AM

Looks like a tour with the TIF board is planned. Hopefully that means it has been well mothballed.

 

 

This  notice  is  given  to  advise  the  public  of  a  possible  quorum  of  the  Board  of  Directors  of  Tax 

Increment Reinvestment Zone Number Eight (Lancaster Avenue TIF) for a site tour that will begin at 
221 W. Lancaster Ave. to view current state and conditions of property surrounding the T&P Terminal 
Building  for  consideration  of  proposed  public  improvements.  No  public  comment  or  Board 
deliberation will  take  place  during  this  tour.  The  tour will  be limited  solely  to  the  outside  of  the 
property. 
This  notice  is  posted  in  accordance  with  the  Open  Meetings  Act  should  a  quorum  of  the  
 Board members of the Lancaster Avenue TIF be present at the event. 

 

http://fortworthtexa...2272f26781e.pdf



#370 johnfwd

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 06:54 AM

While in mothball state, the structure could, at the least, be adorned with LED lighting for the holidays.  Provided the owner has a utility account to pay for it.



#371 JBB

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 09:16 AM

Local developer and philanthropist Happy Baggett passed away this week and his obit from Fort Worth Magazine was a great read.  This particular nugget stood out for me:

 

In the August interview, he confirmed publicly he had organized a group of investors that several years ago offered to buy the vacant and deterioriating T&P Warehouse, considered a linchpin to the revitalization of the Lancaster Street corridor downtown. Mr. Baggett said in the interview his partners exited those conversations three years ago; the building still sits idle.

 

“She’s not going to do anything, I think, until she passes away, and her son can sell it, if she doesn’t restrict him,” Mr. Baggett told the magazine of the T&P’s owner, a Dallas investor.

 

https://fwtx.com/new...lopment-to-sou/



#372 John T Roberts

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 09:23 AM

That is interesting.  I saw the headline that he had passed away, but I didn't read the obituary.  This still goes back to when I was contacted by the owner about 20 years ago.  My firm and I tried several methods to get her in touch with some developers who might have invested with her into the project.  Nothing ever came of those methods.



#373 Austin55

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 11:06 AM

On next week's council docket is an item cancelling the historic tax credits for several properties, including T&P. 

 

https://fortworthgov...94-C5E12AD1DB61

 

Has T&P been paying taxes?



#374 JBB

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 01:16 PM

Doesn't sound like it.  This might make selling the property an attractive option.



#375 John T Roberts

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 01:17 PM

From what I read, in the attached documents, the T&P has not been paying City Taxes since it was purchased by the current owner.  The standard city tax exemption for a Highly Significant Endangered Landmark is that when the property is improved, the taxes are frozen for 15 years at the value of the property before improvements were made.  This was a special case because the documents stated the extra exemptions were applied before any work was done to the building.  At the current time, we have a "mothballed" vacant structure. 



#376 renamerusk

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 03:41 PM

Lets hope that this is finally a beginning of the City eventually getting ownership of the building.  As I and perhaps other believe, the T&P Building can be repurposed as a civic municipal complex (new civic hall).  

 

The strategy should be investing money into the T&PW  instead of purchasing land, hiring a design and engineering firm, demolishing the current civic center, restoring the T&P for the future civic complex is a win-win situation all around.

 

Its worth the City keeping in mind the enormous potential for this structure before its sets out on a quest to build a "new iconic" city hall with all the expenses that would entail -

 

https://marketurbani...stown-concourse



#377 Dylan

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 07:23 PM

Apparently, the renovation of the above warehouse in Memphis cost $210 million.

 

I may need to revisit my list of projects in the "You have $1 billion to spend on civic uses" thread...


-Dylan


#378 renamerusk

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 07:46 AM

On next week's council docket is an item cancelling the historic tax credits for several properties, including T&P.

 

 Can't be certain but I did submit my comments about a new city hall to the appropriate address and strongly recommended that Fort Worth should intensify its effort to gain ownership of the T&P Warehouse. I emphasized that it would be a two for one deal:

 

First, it would address the major problem facing Downtown ( a vacant and deteriorating building)

Second, it would easily provide all of the office space that the City would need today and going forward.



#379 Austin55

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 04:58 PM

So if they have'nt been paying taxes and now have too, that sounds like all the more reason to do *something* with the property.



#380 John T Roberts

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 06:42 PM

Austin, that's City Taxes that appear to not have been paid.  It still leaves FWISD, County, and various other taxes that a property owner has to pay.



#381 JBB

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 06:45 PM

I would like to see it sold on the open market and renovated into a building buzzing with activity 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.  A governmental use won't do that and I don't trust the city to redevelop the property any farther than I can throw myself under water.  This needs a developer interested in making money, not the city bureaucracy. 



#382 renamerusk

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 09:46 PM

But it was sold on the open market and to a developer.  Why do you think the next private developer will be better?

 

A project such as TPW will require a collaborative public and private team like the one assembled for Crosstown

 

"Crosstown Arts attracted multiple project partners, wrote Wilson by email, “with 31 sources of financing including private money, philanthropy, bank debt, Historic Tax Credits, New Markets Tax Credits and monies from the City and County.” .....$56 million in New Markets Tax Credit allocation and $36.5 million in Historic Tax Credits allocation. Final project costs were $210 million".

 

This is to say the TPW , IMO, is much too expansive an undertaking for a single developer.



#383 ramjet

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 10:43 PM

How about a mixed use:  new City Hall, new central library, some restaurants, and public meeting spaces?



#384 JBB

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 10:50 PM

But it was sold on the open market and to a developer.  Why do you think the next private developer will be better?
 


Taking away the sweetheart tax exemption and lack of code enforcement that made it beneficial for the current owner to sit on it would be a good start. Put an arrangement in place that encourages development on a deadline.

#385 txbornviking

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 11:57 AM

Star-T ran this op-ed today:

It’s past time to get moving on the renovation of Fort Worth’s historic T&P Warehouse

BY ANDY TAFT

https://www.star-tel...e238338328.html



#386 JBB

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 01:19 PM

Excellent piece by Mr. Taft and it confirms what I've suspected all along.  Ample interest and capability exists in the private sector to make the renovation happen.  The city has done the right thing by taking away the tax incentives and should go further to work out a heavily conditioned deal with a developer that actually intends to redevelp the property.



#387 John T Roberts

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 06:15 PM

There has actually been quite a bit of interest from other developers and I have tried many times to set some of these people up with Cleopatra Investments.  Andy Taft and I have also had several conversations about the building.  I thought the opinion piece was very well done and right on track. 



#388 ramjet

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 06:58 PM

Has "eminent domain" ever been part of the discussion?  Not sure eminent domain applies in this situation, but T&P might make a lovely City Hall.  I know that Travis County recently invoked eminent domain on a crummy apartment building to make room for their new court house.  Also, I'm almost certain there have been illicit activities in the derelict building. How about a local and federal asset forfeiture angle?   Just thoughts. 



#389 JBB

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 10:37 PM

I don't think it's as bad an idea as demolishing the building, but I don't like it for few reasons that I've said before: it limits the use of the building to business hours and potentially leaves it dark for large parts of the evening and weekend, it doesn't get a building that's potentially worth millions at least partially back to paying taxes, I don't trust a public entity to remodel it properly and in a timely manner, and the potential legal battle of some type of government seizure has the potential to drag out the redevelopment even further.  The city has taken a big step to motivate the buyer to sell.  Hopefully, they are will to present similar motivation to a developer since we keep hearing about interest in the building.



#390 renamerusk

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 11:33 PM

There has actually been quite a bit of interest from other developers and I have tried many times to set some of these people up with Cleopatra Investments.  Andy Taft and I have also had several conversations about the building.  I thought the opinion piece was very well done and right on track. 

JTR, if you have not already done so, perhaps you might consider sharing post #354 in this thread with Mr. Taft.  The Crosstown Memphis would be an excellent concept to start from for TPW.



#391 John T Roberts

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 12:05 PM

Rename, I'm willing to bet that he has already seen the post.  I can't say for sure, but I never know who actually reads the forum, but a lot of influential people in this city visit this site.



#392 renamerusk

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 12:29 PM

... a lot of influential people in this city visit this site.

 

Glad to know that they do. I'm sure they don't quite know what to make of my screeds! :swg:



#393 Austin55

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 03:49 PM

The proporty's value on TAD is very low, just $1.21 million. That's like $9,000 in city taxes a year. 

 

https://taxonline.ta...xcalculator.asp



#394 RD Milhollin

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 06:49 PM

That sounds like just the dirt...



#395 renamerusk

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Posted 06 March 2020 - 01:07 AM

 

It can happen: City Hall, City Library, FWISD and Texas Tech Research.

Maybe, but no tax revenues. Honestly I would trust a developer with a vision rather than a bunch of city and school administrators. After all the time this has set rotting it really needs to be done right; first-class.

 

 

We keep speaking of "market developers" as though someone will come to our rescue.  So far the market is not coming soon or maybe not all.  The fact is: Fort Worth has a problem that only Fort Worth can solve. Fort Worth has a building for which there is few of its kind.

 

The "no tax revenues, so wait" only perpetuates the neglectful situation that the warehouse has been allow to descend. Any developer will want TIF to develop the warehouse, so the no tax revenue excuse becomes a self defeating argument.

 

There are times when the City must take the bull by its horn. If Fort Worth is planning a bond election, it can do one of two things:

 

1. Spend the money to purchase land, hire a design firm, build a new municipal building, but the problem will still be that there remains a huge building located on one of its premier avenues being allowed to deteriorate.

 

2. Spend the money to hire a design firm to redevelop the warehouse for municipal use and for use by other governmental and non-governmental entities, but the problem of the huge deteriorating building is now reborn and changed forever.

 

I think the smartest thing to do is for the City to solve two problems with one solution.

 

Abandoned Art Deco warehouse becomes vibrant vertical village in Memphis - Curbed



#396 JBB

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Posted 06 March 2020 - 02:40 AM

The city of Fort Worth has an awful track record of rescuing property: the Mercado on Main, the police training complex, Z Boaz, just to name a few. I trust my dog with redeveloping the T&P as much as I trust the city.

#397 johnfwd

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Posted 06 March 2020 - 06:36 AM

The city of Fort Worth has an awful track record of rescuing property: the Mercado on Main, the police training complex, Z Boaz, just to name a few. I trust my dog with redeveloping the T&P as much as I trust the city.

I agree the city's track record is not good with respect to the T&P Warehouse.  But we know a municipality is limited in its capacity with respect to private property to eminent domain, condemnation of substandard buildings, and foreclosure for failure to pay ad valorem taxes.  The withdrawal of tax incentives for development was someone's brilliant idea at the council to prod the owner of the Warehouse, but it apparently didn't succeed.  Yes, Rename, the city could purchase the building for municipal offices, and maybe that's the way to go in this situation.

 

How long has the Warehouse been unoccupied?  The last occupants (as we hate to recall) were the Halloween haunted house operators in the 1980s followed by the paint-ball competition operators in the 1990s.  Don't hold me to the exactness of this ignoble track record by private enterprise.  Nothing against haunted house and paint-ball promoters, but this 1930s-era building deserves better. 



#398 JBB

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Posted 06 March 2020 - 09:16 AM

Just a random stream of thoughts:

 

I believe the current owner purchased the building in 1998 and it's been unoccupied that entire time.

 

You bring up another issue.  The owner is an investor with little interest in redeveloping the property and content to wait on the market to bring the right offer.  The city will pay a premium to buy the property and taking it via eminent domain will be a very expensive and lengthy process and I question whether they even have a legal standing to take it.

 

This is not a property for which development is impossible without the government forcing it.  Look at the history of that area.  After the current owner purchased the building, the dot com bubble burst, the economy tanked following 9/11, the I-30 overhead stood for 5 years, the real estate market completely fell apart.  Wide scale development on that stretch of Lancaster is just now starting to fall into place.  It's not like the entire area has already developed around it and it's sitting vacant and it's starting to become obvious that the property is not standing in the way of other development on the street.  All of these other developments enhance the value of the warehouse and increase the chances of the right private opportunity coming along.



#399 renamerusk

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Posted 06 March 2020 - 02:02 PM

1. The city of Fort Worth has an awful track record of rescuing property: the Mercado on Main, the police training complex, Z Boaz, just to name a few. I trust my dog with redeveloping the T&P as much as I trust the city.

 

 

 I agree the city's track record is not good with respect to the T&P Warehouse....  But we know a municipality is limited in its capacity with respect to private property to eminent domain, condemnation of substandard buildings, and foreclosure for failure to pay ad valorem taxes.  The withdrawal of tax incentives for development was someone's brilliant idea at the council to prod the owner of the Warehouse, but it apparently didn't succeed.  Yes, Rename, the city could purchase the building for municipal offices, and maybe that's the way to go in this situation.

 

... Don't hold me to the exactness of this ignoble track record by private enterprise....but this 1930s-era building deserves better.

 

 

Just a random stream of thoughts:

 

I believe the current owner purchased the building in 1998 and it's been unoccupied that entire time.

 

You bring up another issue.  The owner is an investor with little interest in redeveloping the property and content to wait on the market to bring the right offer.  The city will pay a premium to buy the property and taking it via eminent domain will be a very expensive and lengthy process and I question whether they even have a legal standing to take it.

 

All of these other developments enhance the value of the warehouse and increase the chances of the right private opportunity coming along.

 

 

 1. The can answer is government is bad accept when you need government to come to your rescue. Think about the Corona Virus and its ramifications.  There are times when government must step in.  Don't get me wrong, this is not an existential threat, but it is a threat to the complete revitalization of Lancaster Avenue; and should be view in that way.

 

2. The City can take these steps but we do have a "small government" mentality that governs our local politics.  What it will take is the realization that after offering incentives, extending the incentives the private sector that you champion has shown a complete disregards for the warehouse excepting for it as an accounting depreciation tax shelter. I believe that market forces are at work here, but they are not in the best interest of the City, but in the best interest of the owner.

 

After one disappointment followed by other disappointments, Fort Worth is left holding the bag; a bag which is becoming harder to rehabilitated as time goes by.  The warehouse is our building just in the same way as the courthouse.  You cannot afford to allow either to simply crumble.  The cost of setting by idly is for more than the cost of taking it and making it a viable building again for the City.  All costs being equal, a new city hall or a rehabilitated warehouse to serve as an urban village with governmental, non-profit, residential, and office would be more band for the dollar.

 

 I think we can wait until Hell freezes over for the market to see that there is a commercial profit out of this warehouse or we can proceed to make it a goal that the warehouse becomes an asset to the City or we can continue to wait for the knight on a horse while the warehouse in its current situation is allowed to be a drag on and a disgrace to Fort Worth.
 



#400 Austin55

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Posted 16 March 2020 - 03:35 PM

Well well well... This is interesting

 

https://www.loopnet....th-TX/18855501/







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Downtown, Historic Buildings, Lancaster Corridor, Historic Preservation

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