22 replies to this topic

[John T Roberts]

What Fort Worth buildings should receive historic landmark status?

I'm curious as to your opinions on what buildings or structures should be designated as City of Fort Worth Historic and Cultural Landmarks. Some of our buildings are already designated, but I will reveal those after we have compiled a list. The city has three different designations: Demolition Delay, Historic and Cultural Landmark, and Highly Significant Endangered. Each has their own qualifications and for more information, refer to the Fort Worth Zoning Ordinance Online. Below, I have listed the general criteria as defined by the city. For the HC designation, the building only needs to meet 3 of the 10 criteria. For HSE, 5 of the 10 must be met. I'm not going to require anyone to make the determination as to which designation the buildings you suggest should fall in. Please review the criteria, and think of buildings that should be designated as a Fort Worth landmark.

From the City of Fort Worth Zoning Ordinance:

"D. General Criteria for Designation
The criteria to be applied in order to determine whether sites or structures qualify for
designation as Highly Significant Endangered, Historic and Cultural Landmark, Historic and
Cultural Landmarks District and Demolition Delay are as follows:
1. Is distinctive in character, interest or value; strongly exemplifies the cultural, economic,
social, ethnic or historical heritage of the City of Fort Worth, State of Texas or the United
States.
2. Is an important example of a particular architectural type or specimen in the City of Fort
Worth.
3. Has been identified as the work of an important architect or master builder whose
individual work has contributed to the development of the City of Fort Worth.
4. Embodies elements of architectural design, detail, materials or craftsmanship which
represent a significant architectural innovation.
5. Bears an important and significant relationship to other distinctive structures, sites or
areas, either as an important collection of properties of architectural style or
craftsmanship with few intrusions, or by contributing to the overall character of the area
according to a plan based on architectural, historic or cultural motif.
6. Possesses significant archeological value, which has produced or is likely to produce data
affecting theories of historic or prehistoric interest.
7. Is the site of a significant historic event.
8. Is identified with a person or persons who significantly contributed to the culture and development of the City of Fort Worth, State of Texas or the United States.
9. Represents a resource, whether natural or man-made, which greatly contributes to the
character or image of a defined neighborhood or community area.
10. Is designated as a Recorded Texas Historic Landmark or State Archeological Landmark,
or is included on the National Register of Historic Places."

Don't worry about duplicating buildings, the ones that receive the most suggestions will be placed highest on the list. One person may agree with another's list with only a couple of changes. I would appreciate everyone being honest about their choices. I would also like to hear the reasons why you have chosen certain buildings. I am not putting a limit on the number of buildings a member can suggest. I also felt that I couldn't set up a poll for this question. If someone disagrees with some of the choices, I would also like to hear your reasons, as well. I want this to be a constructive process and I am also curious as to which buildings the forum members feel to be the most historically and architecturally significant. I will have my list posted at a later date.

[JBB]

Would it be possible to list buildings that already have been designated historic in some capacity?

[Willy1]

Okay, this is just an "off the top of my head" list.... I don't have much time and I'm not sure these buildings meet historical qualifications...and some may already be landmarks.

The downtown TXU power plant - including the stacks.
Harris Methodist Hospital (downtown)
The Kimbell
The FW Museum of Science and History.
Will Rogers complex (already a landmark of some sort I'm sure)
The Ridglea Theater (because we've already lost The Bowie and 7th Street)
The Blackstone - already a landmark
Tarrant County Courthouse - already a landmark.
The Baker Building
The Bass Performance Hall.... I know it's new and that disqualifies if from landmark status... but the architecture alone makes it one of the city's most prized buildings.
The City National Bank Building (Billy Minors)
Dr Pepper Building - because Dallas demolished theirs. LOL
Fire Station No. 1
The Flat Iron - already landmark
Reata at Sundance... Love this old facade... don't know if it meets historical qualificaiton because of the remodel...
SBC Building - it should be landmarked as the ugliest building built in the 19th/20th centuries... it's THAT ugly!
Both T&P buildings
The downtown Post Office
YMCA...
Farrington Field
Arlington Heights High School
RL Pascal High
WC Stripling Middle School.
North and South Hi Mount Elementary Schools.
Montgomery Wards Building - it should have been a landmarked before it was destroyed.... although so far, I'm more pleased with the hole than I thought I would be.
Casa Manana - how old is the current theater? It would have been more historical if they hadn't destroyed the theater-in-the-round... it should be considered for it's cultural contributions to the city.
Spaghetti Warehouse/Swiss Packing building - if not already landmarked. Most of the really old Stockyards should be landmarked already... if not, add them all to my list.

As you can tell I'm big into preserving downtown structures that are old. We have plenty of eye sores or open lots where new TALL buildings can be constructed!

[courtnie]

Okay, this is just an "off the top of my head" list.... I don't have much time and I'm not sure these buildings meet historical qualifications...and some may already be landmarks.

The downtown TXU power plant - including the stacks.
Harris Methodist Hospital (downtown)
The Kimbell
The FW Museum of Science and History.
Will Rogers complex (already a landmark of some sort I'm sure)
The Ridglea Theater (because we've already lost The Bowie and 7th Street)
The Blackstone - already a landmark
Tarrant County Courthouse - already a landmark.
The Baker Building
The Bass Performance Hall.... I know it's new and that disqualifies if from landmark status... but the architecture alone makes it one of the city's most prized buildings.
The City National Bank Building (Billy Minors)
Dr Pepper Building - because Dallas demolished theirs. LOL
Fire Station No. 1
The Flat Iron - already landmark
Reata at Sundance... Love this old facade... don't know if it meets historical qualificaiton because of the remodel...
SBC Building - it should be landmarked as the ugliest building built in the 19th/20th centuries... it's THAT ugly!
Both T&P buildings
The downtown Post Office
YMCA...
Farrington Field
Arlington Heights High School
RL Pascal High
WC Stripling Middle School.
North and South Hi Mount Elementary Schools.
Montgomery Wards Building - it should have been a landmarked before it was destroyed.... although so far, I'm more pleased with the hole than I thought I would be.
Casa Manana - how old is the current theater? It would have been more historical if they hadn't destroyed the theater-in-the-round... it should be considered for it's cultural contributions to the city.
Spaghetti Warehouse/Swiss Packing building - if not already landmarked. Most of the really old Stockyards should be landmarked already... if not, add them all to my list.

As you can tell I'm big into preserving downtown structures that are old. We have plenty of eye sores or open lots where new TALL buildings can be constructed!

I agree with you on everyone you named....I think all of DTFW should be preserved....

[John T Roberts]

JBB, the list is very long. That's why I didn't try. In an earlier thread, I have provided the link to the city's web site that has a downloadable PDF file. I think it is something like 60-80 pages in length and the buildings are only listed by address or lot and block number. That would be very time consuming to find the structures. An easer way is to go to the city's new mapping site. It has all of the historic overlays on it, so if you know how to read a map, you can find the properties. It also has all of the zoning shown. That URL is easy to remember, so here it is: http://maps.fortworthgov.org/zoning

Willy, some of the buildings that you have listed are already landmarked. However, this is still interesting to see everyone's choices. This also goes back to what I have brought up earlier, some of the buildings that we think are our most prized historic buildings don't have much protection. Look on the Fort Worth maps site, you will be surprised.

[safly]

Uhhhhhh, The FW Convention Center?





DOTE!

[cjyoung]

Okay, this is just an "off the top of my head" list.... I don't have much time and I'm not sure these buildings meet historical qualifications...and some may already be landmarks.

The downtown TXU power plant - including the stacks.
Harris Methodist Hospital (downtown)
The Kimbell
The FW Museum of Science and History.
Will Rogers complex (already a landmark of some sort I'm sure)
The Ridglea Theater (because we've already lost The Bowie and 7th Street)
The Blackstone - already a landmark
Tarrant County Courthouse - already a landmark.
The Baker Building
The Bass Performance Hall.... I know it's new and that disqualifies if from landmark status... but the architecture alone makes it one of the city's most prized buildings.
The City National Bank Building (Billy Minors)
Dr Pepper Building - because Dallas demolished theirs. LOL
Fire Station No. 1
The Flat Iron - already landmark
Reata at Sundance... Love this old facade... don't know if it meets historical qualificaiton because of the remodel...
SBC Building - it should be landmarked as the ugliest building built in the 19th/20th centuries... it's THAT ugly!
Both T&P buildings
The downtown Post Office
YMCA...
Farrington Field
Arlington Heights High School
RL Pascal High
WC Stripling Middle School.
North and South Hi Mount Elementary Schools.
Montgomery Wards Building - it should have been a landmarked before it was destroyed.... although so far, I'm more pleased with the hole than I thought I would be.
Casa Manana - how old is the current theater? It would have been more historical if they hadn't destroyed the theater-in-the-round... it should be considered for it's cultural contributions to the city.
Spaghetti Warehouse/Swiss Packing building - if not already landmarked. Most of the really old Stockyards should be landmarked already... if not, add them all to my list.

As you can tell I'm big into preserving downtown structures that are old. We have plenty of eye sores or open lots where new TALL buildings can be constructed!

I agree with you on everyone you named....I think all of DTFW should be preserved....

What about the ugly a$$ SBC building or that stupid Purina plant?

[courtnie]

What about the ugly a$$ SBC building or that stupid Purina plant?

Just because something is ulgy doesnt mean it needs to be torn down.

[JBB]

JBB, the list is very long.  That's why I didn't try. 

After doing a quick search online and coming up with nothing, I figured out that this was tall task. I wasn't expecting anyone to put any work into it.

Are the designations on your lists of building descriptions on your site fairly accurate? If so, I see a number of buildings on that list that would be worthy of some type of historical designation.

[John T Roberts]

JBB, my designations on the building lists are accurate as of the Fall of 2004. My lists do not include demolition delay structures.

[John T Roberts]

Since Willy is the only person who has responded with a list, I am now going to reveal which buildings of his are already designated on the local level and which ones won't be eligible. Please note this is only relating to designated on the local level and does not include Demolition Delay structures.

The downtown TXU power plant - including the stacks: NOT DESIGNATED
Harris Methodist Hospital (downtown): NOT DESIGNATED
The Kimbell: WON'T BE ELIGIBLE UNTIL 2022
The FW Museum of Science and History: NOT DESIGNATED
Will Rogers complex (already a landmark of some sort I'm sure): NOT DESIGNATED
The Ridglea Theater (because we've already lost The Bowie and 7th Street): NOT DESIGNATED
The Blackstone - already a landmark: HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT ENDANGERED LANDMARK
Tarrant County Courthouse - already a landmark: NOT DESIGNATED
The Baker Building: DEPENDS ON HOW THE RESTORATION WILL BE VIEWEDThe Bass Performance Hall.... I know it's new and that disqualifies if from landmark status... but the architecture alone makes it one of the city's most prized buildings. NOT ELIGIBLE UNTIL 2048
The City National Bank Building (Billy Miner's): NOT DESIGNATED
Dr Pepper Building - because Dallas demolished theirs: NOT DESIGNATED
Fire Station No. 1: NOT DESIGNATED
The Flat Iron - already landmark: HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT ENDANGERED LANDMARK
Reata at Sundance... Love this old facade... don't know if it meets historical qualification because of the remodel... PROBABLY WOULD NOT BE ELIGIBLE
SBC Building - it should be landmarked as the ugliest building built in the 19th/20th centuries... it's THAT ugly!
Both T&P buildings: HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT ENDANGERED LANDMARKThe downtown Post Office: NOT DESIGNATED
YMCA: NOT DESIGNATED
Farrington Field: NOT DESIGNATED
Arlington Heights High School: NOT DESIGNATED
RL Pascal High: PROBABLY NOT ELIGIBLE DUE TO SO MANY ADDITIONS COVERING ENTIRE ORIGINAL BUILDING FROM STREET
WC Stripling Middle School: LANDMARKED
North Hi Mount Elementary School: LANDMARKED
South Hi Mount Elementary School: NOT DESIGNATED
Montgomery Wards Building - it should have been a landmarked before it was destroyed.... although so far, I'm more pleased with the hole than I thought I would be. WAS ELIGIBLE, NOW WILL NEVER BE ELIGIBLE
Casa Manana - how old is the current theater? It would have been more historical if they hadn't destroyed the theater-in-the-round... it should be considered for it's cultural contributions to the city: WON'T BE ELIGIBLE UNTIL 2008
Spaghetti Warehouse/Swiss Packing building - if not already landmarked. Most of the really old Stockyards should be landmarked already... if not, add them all to my list: NOT DESIGNATED

[courtnie]

John,

I had no idea those that are so siganficant to us as Fortwortheans are not designated...Im really shocked as i sit and read the list..what can we do to change the status of some of our prize buildings..and im sure the if we did a list of houses it would be twice as long...

Where do we need to start to get some of these buildings protected..what about the mexican inn on camp bowie? too many additions? I had no idea that the Ridglea theather wasnt designated.....is it too late for it as well because it has been chopped up inside?

[Willy1]

I'm shocked by the list of unprotected building.... I can't beleive that even the TC Courthouse isn't protected. What DOES the Historical Preservation Society do if this many of our prized buildings aren't protected. And, what does "Highly Significant Endangered Landmark" mean? Does that mean that it's landmarked, but that isn't really providing any protection?

I was just sure that some of those buildings were protected.... Harris Methodist should be protected - but is it eligible since it's been added on to so many times?

And, now are Stripling and N Hi Mount protected, and AHHS and S Hi Mount not? When I was at AHHS - a long time ago - they were trying to get some sort of historical designation for it to protect it from the i-30 expansion.... I graduated that year and just assumed that some sort of designation was in place since they have taken such care to match the original architecture every time there has been an addition.... unlike Poooooor Pascal. (Sorry, I couldn't resist) What did the original Pascal look like - I have heard that it was actually an attractive building - long ago.... I think the updates to Pascal make it one of the most unattractive schools in FW. I think my least favorite is still Western Hills.

Back on topic.... What do we have to do to get some of these landmarks actually landmarked? And, what danger lurks out there for some of these buildings? I mean, with FW growing the way it is, and the office space market being so tight... These buildings are in much more at risk than they've ever been - right?

And, for all of you who don't care about the smoke stacks.... how would you feel if it was the Courthouse or Flatiron being torn down for the sake of the TCC campus? It's the same principle at work here.... Think long and hard about how badly you want to "modernize" FW because doing so could level some of the most historic buildings in the city... I would hate to see something like a City Center Tower going up where the Blackstone Hotel now sits.... Think it can't happen - look at the Carter Burgess building... It sits where the old Aviation building once stood and it was a beautiful historic building.... gone forever. I stand by my statement that you can always redevelop something to give it new life (like the stacks) but once they're gone they're gone forever.

[courtnie]

Willy,

I agree completely...I cant believe that we have so many buildings are arent protected...It kinda makes me sick to think that those buildings that make our city what it is are in danger of being torn down. Apparently its a loooong process to get it landmarked and requires much research to get a historical marker placed on it. I think this could easily be done with all of the history in our town. The smoke stacks should stay..i dont think they are structurly unsound i think thats a line so they can tear them down....but thats my opinion

[John T Roberts]

Well, actually I have a lot to say on this subject. I don't know how many of you know this, but I am on the Board of Directors of Historic Fort Worth. I'm heading up a committee that is looking at these issues and is also placing buildings on our CAPP list. CAPP stands for Community Assets Prioritized for Preservation. This new acronym is basically our Most Endangered List. Historic Fort Worth is addressing all preservation issues.

On June 6th, the City Page in the paper had a summary of the Historic Preservation ordinance and it defined all of its categories and explained in brief the levels of protection. It also explained in brief how to nominate a building. Believe it or not, almost all of the regulations, definitions, and nominating process have been discussed in previous threads on this board. I tried to find this City Page online and could not do it, but it may exist. I do have a copy of it and I can make it into a pdf file and then you could download it.

My list does above does not count Demolition Delay designation. This is the lowest level of protection for a building and it basically says that the demolition will be put on a 180 day delay to see if any alternatives to demolition can be found in that time frame. Recently, I have been involved in trying to save a few Demolition Delay buildings and I have been unsuccessful.

The Highly Signficant Endangered Category is the highest level of protection. It has to meet at least five of the city's 10 criteria in judging a landmark. HSE buildings are considered to be the city's most significant buildings and they can be endangered by many factors. The city also gives 15 years ad velorem tax exemption to HSE structures and 10 years to HC (Historic & Cultural Landmarks). HC designation has to meet 3 of the 10 criteria.

Believe it or not, I have been dropping hints on this forum for several months now about our prized buildings having no local designations. I have posted links to the list of Designated Buildings, Zoning Maps, and city sites that had this information available. Unfortunately, no one picked up on them until I finally asked the question in the topic of this thread. Also, nominating a building is a very involved process, as well. In a nutshell, only the property owner, City Council, City Manager, or the Landmarks Commission can designate a building. In order to be approved, the designated must be passed in this order, by the Landmarks Commission, the Zoning Commission, and finally City Council.

Willy, I would say that your statement about downtown buildings being more at risk is probably correct. However, there are still plenty of vacant blocks (where buildings once stood) that are potential building sites.

The original building on the current Paschal campus is a very attractive building. I can't show you a picture because it is my policy to not go on private property and then post the photograph of the building on my site without the owner's permission. In order to shoot that portion of Paschal, I would have to go on the campus. Also very little of that original building is exposed to the outside and what is visible can only been seen from a courtyard or inside the campus. There may be a few locations where I can shoot from the street with zoom lens. Finally, the last time I was on campus, I had found the original clay tile roof had been replaced with asphalt shingles. This further degrades the historic appearance of the building.

Edited by John T Roberts, 20 June 2005 - 09:40 PM.

[courtnie]

how do i get on the committee...Historic Preservation is my passion its what i want to do with my life..ive just put it off for so long...i agree with everything youve said and since ive been on this forum i have started to notice all of the building and i guess blindly thought that the ones that stand out are safe when in fact they arent...what can i do? if i would stand in front of the wrecking ball for thistle hill i certainly would do it for other things too... Let me ask you a dumb question, dumb on my part because i should know the answer...but does a home or building that has a historical marker designated? is it safe and can it be torn down? I know there are different levels to being preseved. I want to do something and preserve our city...

[Willy1]

I'm still shocked at the fact that some of the most significant buildings in FW are not protected at all.... I mean, if the Tarrant County Courthouse isn't protected then I don't think any buildings are safe. Of course, I think there would be an uprising of Biblical proportion if someone tried to destroy the courthouse, but then again... What if they did it on a moment's notice without anyone having any warning - like the 7th Street Theater!!!!! I'm at least glad that the T&P Buildings are highly protected because my grandfather's office was in the T&P Building and my family has a long history with the T&P... (I've got some wicked rail road antiques as a result of that)

Anyway, it's a very scary thought that some of our most valuable city buildings are potentially at risk. I mean if a glorified junior college can come in an destroy the TXU plant with a simple due dilligence, then imagine what would happen if a large company wanted to build a large downtown campus where some of our most historical structures stand. Or, what if someone with enough money to greese the wheels at city hall came in and wanted to build something where say, Will Rogers is.... Scary thoughts... scary thoughts. It seems like the only thing protecting some of our prized buildings is simply the power of public opinion.... Imagine the uproar if someone planned to tear down Will Rogers or the Courthouse... But, crazier things have happened. Hence - the Montgomery Plaza nightmare.

[courtnie]

Have you guys taken the time to check out the zoning map you have got to check it out.....once you figure out how to use it you will see that virtually all of down town isnt safe...at all....and our surrounding bulidings arent either....we must do something...even a public out cry wont necessarly stop anything.. We have that small town syndrom in our city that most small towns experience... Where certian people hold the power and its up to them what stays and what goes. The Baker Hotel in Mineral Wells is a great example of this....People have offered to buy it, fix it and yet the city has created certian restrictions that are almost impossible to adhear to.....and so the Baker sits and deteriorates and they have now condemed it and want to demolish it..and because its just listed on the National Register isnt good enough...

[Fire-Eater]

Actually, if it's not the Parthenon it's not really deserving of preservation.

And besides, when you tear down a historic building the parking lot with which you replace it will some day be historic.

Private property rights are more important than anything. If you try and tell people what to do with their property you are a Communist or, worse, a Liberal.

We should rely entirely upon the property owner to do the right thing . . . have you no faith in your fellow man?

[courtnie]

Actually, if it's not the Parthenon it's not really deserving of preservation.

And besides, when you tear down a historic building the parking lot with which you replace it will some day be historic.

Private property rights are more important than anything.  If you try and tell people what to do with their property you are a Communist or, worse, a Liberal.

We should rely entirely upon the property owner to do the right thing . . . have you no faith in your fellow man? 

UMMMM>>Faith in my fellow man....hahaa NO!!!!! I think that in the event my fellow man had a historic property he or she would rather sell it for the all mighty dollar rather then the history associated with it..

[RD Milhollin]

A recent S-T opinion piece by John Roberts, Historic Fort Worth, Inc. Chair on historic designations for buildings in the Stockyards area:

 

http://www.star-tele...le16941446.html

[John T Roberts]

RD, thanks for posting the link to my Letter to the Editor, and for reviving this thread.  Several things have changed since the last post in 2005.  The City's Designation Committee was eliminated due to budget cuts.  This was the only way that the citizens of the city had a way to encourage building designations.  Later on, due to more budget cuts, the city put a moratorium on new historic districts.  Historic Districts give basically the same protection against demolition that individual designations have, but do it by an area boundary, rather than one property at a time.

 

On the site, I'm gradually expanding the designations by indicating buildings that are Demolition Delay and buildings that are within a historic district, but not individually designated, both on the National and Local levels.  The Stockyards are a classic example of being a National Register Historic District, but not a City of Fort Worth Historic District.  This allows demolition of buildings with that area, except for the individually designated buildings.  Would you believe that of the two buildings in Mule Alley, only one is designated a City of Fort Worth Historic & Cultural Landmark and the other is only Demolition Delay?

[John T Roberts]

If you are interested in attending, the next Stockyards Task Force Meeting will be held on Wednesday, April 8, 2015 from 3:00 until 5:00 PM at the Cattlemen's Steak House.  The address is 2458 North Main St.