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Lancaster Avenue of Light


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#51 Dismuke

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 07:26 PM

QUOTE (Willy1 @ Jul 5 2009, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I noticed there isn't anything around these towert to protect them from cars... What's the plan if a car or truck goes out of contron and plows into one of the towers? I think they need to put some sort of decorative barrier around them. Light post get TKO'd all the time. What's to think these won't take a hit too?



The concrete bases look pretty solid to me - and, from the photos, they look to be as tall if not taller than the front end of most cars. I suspect it would take some heck of a crash before it would move the base enough to topple the lights.
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#52 Willy1

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 10:17 AM

QUOTE (Dismuke @ Jul 5 2009, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Willy1 @ Jul 5 2009, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I noticed there isn't anything around these towert to protect them from cars... What's the plan if a car or truck goes out of contron and plows into one of the towers? I think they need to put some sort of decorative barrier around them. Light post get TKO'd all the time. What's to think these won't take a hit too?



The concrete bases look pretty solid to me - and, from the photos, they look to be as tall if not taller than the front end of most cars. I suspect it would take some heck of a crash before it would move the base enough to topple the lights.



Yeah, I agree the concrete bases look sturdy, but if a car hits them, it's going to scar up, if not chip or crack the concrete. The end result would be a really ugly "left over" on the concrete base. Seems to me, they would do something to protect "art" from being hit by cars.

#53 Fort Worthology

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 10:40 AM

(This is not meant to come across confrontational or anything, just my observation.)

I always hear "but they'll be hit by cars" whenever anything around here gets put anywhere near a road, but it almost never happens. I figure the chances of them being hit by cars are pretty small - and in that outside chance that they are, well, we'll fix them. Things are near roads in downtowns. That's one of the things that makes them downtowns.

If it were built today, I can only imagine the thread on the forum here about the Tarrant County Courthouse - "it's in the middle of the road. What happens if a car hits it?"

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#54 Dismuke

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 10:58 AM

QUOTE (Atomic Glee @ Jul 12 2009, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If it were built today, I can only imagine the thread on the forum here about the Tarrant County Courthouse - "it's in the middle of the road. What happens if a car hits it?"


I would pity whoever is in that car. Ever climb the front steps to that building? There are a LOT of them. That car wouldn't make it very far - and the steps are solid rock.

As to the lights, they are in an area where the speed limit is fairly slow and where most blocks are subject to traffic lights. In order for a vehicle to hit the structures hard enough to cause significant damage it would have to be traveling well above posted speed limits and most likely running some red lights before losing control. Stuff like that does happen, of course. But it is fortunately fairly rare. How many times did cars lose control and plow into the old I-30 overpass that previously stood there? And when something like that does happen, concern for the safety of the lights is not going to be the first thing on people's minds. We, ourselves, take that same risk anytime we walk near a busy street.
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#55 Brian Luenser

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 05:28 PM

I took these shots just before dawn this morning. Lancaster Ave. in general is really looking good all of the sudden. I was very impressed. I bet I spent an hour on the Avenue this morning between the moon setting and the sun rising (For other pictures)







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#56 longhornz32

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 02:21 PM

Monee what a great capture of the sculpture! I wish these were this bright to my eye. Even up close I've been disappointed by how dim they are.

#57 ramjet

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 05:57 PM

QUOTE (monee9696 @ Oct 3 2009, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I took these shots just before dawn this morning. Lancaster Ave. in general is really looking good all of the sudden. I was very impressed. I bet I spent an hour on the Avenue this morning between the moon setting and the sun rising (For other pictures)







Terrific shots, Monee! Love those light sculptures. And the one in purple - gotta be in honor of the Horned Frogs breaking the top 10 in the AP poll today. Go Frogs! I'll be up there next week and can't wait to get a first hand look at Lancaster Ave., the new Michelangelo, and Ellerbe's Fine Foods. You folks are livin' large in Funkytown (is that what the hipsters are calling C-town these days?)...

#58 Brian Luenser

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 01:08 PM

A belated thank you Ramjet for your comments on my pics.

I just got a letter from the artist of this Public Art project (His employee at his California studio more accurately) asking if they can use these images in their pieces and would I give them permission and the large file size originals. Of course I said yes.

They stated that they got the images from the Fort Worth Arts Council. Not sure how they got the images but maybe they are trolling our Fort Worth Forum!

And yes, I know I didn't design the art nor the beautiful sunrise, but I will take credit for being on Lancaster Ave. at 6am on a Saturday with my tripod and Thermos®. (The coffee was necessary.)

http://www.cliffgart....htm#/projects/
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#59 Fort Worthology

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 01:52 PM

Congrats.

I did several photo sessions for the Avenue of Light. Most of the existing images on the artist's site are mine. Never got around to uploading some of them to the forum.

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#60 longhornz32

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 06:49 PM

Way to go Monee! I would ask the FW council where they got your pictures though. If anyone would be respectful of using images with permission I would of thought they would.

These images are stunning! So much so that you are part of the reason I get so disappointed when I drive by them at night. The long exposures make them look so much brighter than they are in person. The horizontal image is just spectacular.

#61 mmiller2002

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 01:01 PM

FW Weekly gave it a Turkey today:

"Outshone.

A little leftover turkey hash to the dim bulb at city hall who decided to locate artist Cliff Garten's 36-foot high, stainless-steel sculptures along the median of the restored East Lancaster Avenue. In that location, the poor dears, entwined in pale violet LED lights, have to compete with so much brightness, from headlights to traffic signals to street lights, that their subtle effect is lost. The six soaring pieces, which in the daytime look like giant egg-beaters, are supposed to reflect the art deco architecture of the old T&P railroad terminal, now morphed into high-dollar condos. But sadly for the artist and the citizens who paid for it, this is still a "what were they thinking" moment, another misstep in the city's campaign to bring art to the public."

http://www.fwweekly....c...&Itemid=375


#62 eastfwther

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 10:37 AM

QUOTE (mmiller2002 @ Nov 19 2009, 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
FW Weekly gave it a Turkey today:

"Outshone.

A little leftover turkey hash to the dim bulb at city hall who decided to locate artist Cliff Garten's 36-foot high, stainless-steel sculptures along the median of the restored East Lancaster Avenue. In that location, the poor dears, entwined in pale violet LED lights, have to compete with so much brightness, from headlights to traffic signals to street lights, that their subtle effect is lost. The six soaring pieces, which in the daytime look like giant egg-beaters, are supposed to reflect the art deco architecture of the old T&P railroad terminal, now morphed into high-dollar condos. But sadly for the artist and the citizens who paid for it, this is still a "what were they thinking" moment, another misstep in the city's campaign to bring art to the public."

http://www.fwweekly....c...&Itemid=375

I must admit, I'm not a fan of the sculptures either. It might just be the placement. I don't think they look good on Lancaster blvd and during the day they just look weird.

Btw, I guess one thing that's good about FW is those "high-dollar condos" start around 140k.

#63 Volare

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 07:24 AM

Last night at the City Council meeting they allocated $153k to improve the lighting on these sculptures.

#64 mmiller2002

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 11:31 AM

Last night at the City Council meeting they allocated $153k to improve the lighting on these sculptures.


Money to "burn" on that, but they want to close 3 library branches that are used by lots of low income folks.

#65 Dismuke

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 12:11 PM


Last night at the City Council meeting they allocated $153k to improve the lighting on these sculptures.


Money to "burn" on that, but they want to close 3 library branches that are used by lots of low income folks.



Very good point. And it is not likely that we are going to see much or anything in the way of new development along Lancaster - and thus new traffic that is not merely passing through - until there is more economic certainty. So why do it now? Why not put the expense off until things improve? And, when that time comes, if the improvements are so all fired better and important over what is in place now, why not try and ask those with an interest in the immediate neighborhood to donate the 153k?
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#66 jefffwd

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:19 PM



Last night at the City Council meeting they allocated $153k to improve the lighting on these sculptures.


Money to "burn" on that, but they want to close 3 library branches that are used by lots of low income folks.



Very good point. And it is not likely that we are going to see much or anything in the way of new development along Lancaster - and thus new traffic that is not merely passing through - until there is more economic certainty. So why do it now? Why not put the expense off until things improve? And, when that time comes, if the improvements are so all fired better and important over what is in place now, why not try and ask those with an interest in the immediate neighborhood to donate the 153k?


I wish they'd fix the potholes near my house that are tearing up my car before adjusting the light on the "art".

#67 Sam Stone

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 05:41 PM

You know what would make those light sculptures look really nice? A streetcar zipping by them.

#68 JBB

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 09:13 AM

I've never confused the sculptures for something that belongs on the strip in Vegas, but I've also never looked at them and thought they need a 6-figure fix about a year after they were installed. I'm guessing this money is coming from a public art fund that can't be used to pay the bills.

#69 djold1

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 11:48 AM

You know what would make those light sculptures look really nice? A streetcar zipping by them.



Unfortunately these structures (I wouldn't call them sculpture) have been a complete failure. Way too small in any light, and of a material that makes them insignificant in the day. More powerful lights may help after dark, but this is just one of those grand plans that didn't work at all. I would suggest using the refurb money to dismantle them for possible use is a smaller more enclosed venue and then when funds are available start considering one or more significant works that add to the area.

I also think that it would be a shame to build up the north side of Lancaster with commercial buildings. It is park-like now and gives a great view of the city from many angles. Making a canyon of it would be a shame, I think. This area could also handle, without losing the effect, a double track streetcar line as the bottom of town loop in the future.


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#70 Dismuke

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 12:48 PM

Why not just save the money and leave them as they are? I'll admit that their purpose during the daytime is a bit mystifying when you see them the first time. But they do not fall into the eyesore category or anything. And at night they are kind of interesting. If the area ever develops where there is night time street traffic, they are plenty visible to people in the immediate area. And until the area develops - well, how many people are even going to see it at night?

If there is money sitting around to be burned, why not spend it instead on improvements to the Hayne Memorial? Bring the fountains back. That would be nice to see in the day and they could be illuminated at night. I have always thought that the memorial there was under appreciated.

And ever since the I-30 over head was taken down, the parking area in front of the T&P Depot has, to me, cried out to be converted into a grassy park with a huge fountain in the middle. Probably an idiotic idea in practice given that the parking spaces are most likely desperately needed. But it would look very nice.
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#71 djold1

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 03:44 PM

I guess I don't have any problem with keeping them there, but they just seem to me to be such feeble things that are overwhelmed by its area. And while they are somewhat visible at night, there are more viewing hours during the day. I guess even more money could be spent in adding something of daylight significance to the median.

I'm with you on the additional green space down there around the T & P. If we're gong to have a narrow, slow speed thoroughfare with parking, which I have some to like, then let's make it inviting and a visual gateway to the south end of the BD.

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#72 RD Milhollin

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 05:17 AM

And ever since the I-30 over head was taken down, the parking area in front of the T&P Depot has, to me, cried out to be converted into a grassy park with a huge fountain in the middle. Probably an idiotic idea in practice given that the parking spaces are most likely desperately needed. But it would look very nice.


Sure parking is needed, but so is the green space mentioned here. Building underground parking with a surface park/green space would seem an appropriate answer. There are quite a few people living in the T&P and the annex who could use that, surprised that was not part of the original development plan back when TIF money was flowing. ave to agree with several posters who feel the sculpture towers are underwhelming at best, and that recent expenditures to "adjust" them were ill-advised.

#73 Dismuke

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 12:53 PM

Sure parking is needed, but so is the green space mentioned here. Building underground parking with a surface park/green space would seem an appropriate answer. There are quite a few people living in the T&P and the annex who could use that, surprised that was not part of the original development plan back when TIF money was flowing.


I am guessing that the cost and logistics on that would be huge. And there is also the issue of the post office - though its portion of the parking lot is relatively small and could perhaps be put off to the side somewhere. As long as the building remains in use as a post office underground parking is not really a good option for the in and out sort of visits that most people make when gong to a post office.

But, gee..... it sure would be cool. Ever since the I-30 overpass came down my appreciation for the building has only grown as the vantage points that have opened up enable one to see the building as a whole. One of the difficulties in viewing vintage skyscrapers is so much of them is frequently obscured by immediately surrounding buildings. There are a lot of old skyscrapers I have wanted to photograph and found it very difficult to do so and almost impossible to capture the entire building in a single shot. It is rather rare to have such sight lines to a building of such height and vintage.

Interestingly enough, the original plans for the building did not share my enthusiasm for such a sight line. According to the very interesting .pdf that djold1 posted in this thread of an article about the complex from when it was new, the original plans were for a row of shops to line Lancaster where the parking lot is. This would have completely obscured the building from the street. As far as I can tell from various old photographs, the shops were never actually built.
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#74 ron4Life

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 01:30 PM

So are there any new updates on increasing the illumination of these awesome structures?

#75 Volare

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 11:59 AM

Yes, the new permanent additional lighting has been installed. There are two triangular shaped light holders installed on the east and west side of each sculpture. They were red when I saw them on Monday night, but I assume they are LED and can be whatever color they want them to be. I'm pretty surprised they went with such a large above ground light- won't be long before one gets run over accidentally by a car. I'd estimate them to be 18-24" high off the ground, with no protective posts or anything around them.

#76 ron4Life

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 01:51 PM

@Volare: Yes, the new permanent additional lighting has been installed. There are two triangular shaped light holders installed on the east and west side of each sculpture. They were red when I saw them on Monday night, but I assume they are LED and can be whatever color they want them to be. I'm pretty surprised they went with such a large above ground light- won't be long before one gets run over accidentally by a car. I'd estimate them to be 18-24" high off the ground, with no protective posts or anything around them.

I think the whole setup is awesome. It's makes for a sweet tourist snap shot. Now if we could just get some more well designed sky scrapers to add to the skyline.

#77 John T Roberts

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:42 PM

I noticed the additional lights Monday afternoon. I do agree that they look like they could be targets for stray vehicles.

#78 Brian Luenser

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 10:19 PM

Hung out on Lancaster Ave. tonight with my tripod and junk.

My assessment is that these Public Art structures are now much more visibly illuminated at night. During broad daylight I really could not see a difference without a closer examination. It could be that no illuminated special art work pieces are meaningful in the daylight. At night, these "antennae" are now quite visible. And beautiful. They do now have visible light podiums near the base of these structures. My wife thought they looked pretty vulnerable also, as far as cars whizzing by. I don't think so really. Yes, they could get hit, but no more likely than a street or traffic light. And these are likely less expensive than a traffic light.

I took several photos tonight on Lancaster. I started in the daylight (5:45 and ended up in the dark 7:15) I will post those related to this lighting in this thread and a few others from Lancaster on other threads. Maybe digital daily.

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#79 bburton

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 11:29 PM

Well, for sure: the darker it becomes, the better this art looks. Good job of photographically documenting that fact. :)

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#80 Brian Luenser

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 06:53 AM

^ Thank you Mr. Burton

The whole "Avenue of Lights" has been a pretty contentious project. Of course the biggest complaint being dim illumination. I see that problem as being two-fold. They used wimpy LED's for lights. Not that LED's aren't the answer to most lighting, but for that project, likely not. (They were wanting it to be super GREEN) As it turns out we used more electricity griping about the dim lights than we would have used on incandescent lighting. The second problem is the color of the art. Aluminum. Too reflective. You can't really illuminate mirrors. Had the structures been flat white the whole thing would have worked. (I am not a physicist, I just play one on TV)

Funny. I did not realize until a day later that these Art Objects were pink for valentines day. Realized it when my wife, last night, commented that she liked how Sundance Square was lighting there buildings in Pink for Valentine's day. (ding ding. It hit me then)

One more shot. Hanging off my balcony. (Thus grainy, crooked and blurry as camera not on a tripod in the dark) But shows a bit what these look like from the distance. This was at Dawn.

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#81 Brian Luenser

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 09:19 PM

Took some new shots of the Public Art Project on Lancaster Ave. Sure enough,these things have much better illumination now. Some shots from tonight.

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#82 Ron Payne

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:55 AM

Nice shots as always. We don't usually wander that far south, but it looks like it might be worth the half mile hike from Sundance area!
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#83 Doohickie

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 11:54 AM

While you're there, check out the T&P Tavern (in the old Train Station... there's a sign on the building with an arrow to the entrance). They just started serving food.
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#84 Ron Payne

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 12:55 PM

Sounds like a plan - we can load up on fuel for the walk back! :D
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#85 Austin55

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 03:39 PM

Phase 2?

 

 

C. Discussion and consideration of a resolution authorizing the Chair to enter into a TIF Development

Agreement with the Fort Worth Arts Council for the completion of Phase II of the Lancaster Avenue of
Light project (Michael Hennig, Business Development Coordinator; Martha Peters, Fort Worth Arts )
 


#86 txbornviking

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 03:45 PM

 

Phase 2?

 

 

C. Discussion and consideration of a resolution authorizing the Chair to enter into a TIF Development

Agreement with the Fort Worth Arts Council for the completion of Phase II of the Lancaster Avenue of
Light project (Michael Hennig, Business Development Coordinator; Martha Peters, Fort Worth Arts )
 

 

Anyone remember what Phase II was supposed to be? I didn't know there were any other proposed phases, but maybe that's just me...



#87 JBB

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 03:53 PM

From the FW public art page:

 

"Median landscaping will be part of a future phase of the project."

 

That was all a Google search turned up.



#88 RD Milhollin

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 11:35 PM

The light sculptures have been in place on Lancaster Avenue for 10 years now. What are your impressions of the art installation given the newness has worn off?

 

I feel many people probably never really see or appreciate the art since they are busy driving in the venue the pieces are exhibited in, and that at night when they are designed to "shine" few people are around to experience them. Being spread out along a half mile the effect is dispersed... muted. Perhaps it would help if they were gathered together in a shorter stretch, like the developed block north of the Post Office Building, or even offered as an incentive as a centerpiece for a future public plaza in front of the T & P Passenger Station. Just ideas...



#89 roverone

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 07:58 AM

That's a really good point about them being spread out.

 

To me they always struck me as something that probably looked good in a rendering, but then in real life they were too etherial -- as I recall, in the beginning the lighting was only from the center and very weak, then they added side lights.

 

What I think they should have done drop a white acrylic tube town the center holes in the metal, to give a more dominant target for the lighting.

 

I think if you did that and then perhaps combined it with lighting inside the tube that could be individually controlled at each metal slat, and then set up a slow and tasteful pattern that has some harmony from piece to piece to tie them together it would more live up its promise.



#90 JBB

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 08:08 AM

I thought 10 years ago that development along Lancaster would be a little farther along than it is, but it is starting to pick up some momentum.  I agree that it is a little spread out, but the installation would look totally different in a tighter developed, more bustling streetscape.



#91 txbornviking

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 08:08 AM

I like the concept but I wish they were brighter and had about triple the density for a more rhythmic effect along the streetscape



#92 txbornviking

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 08:12 AM

I thought 10 years ago that development along Lancaster would be a little farther along than it is, but it is starting to pick up some momentum.  I agree that it is a little spread out, but the installation would look totally different in a tighter developed, more bustling streetscape.

 

yea, the slow pace of development after the highway overpass was demolished has certainly been surprising. Very much an outlier when it comes to how development has flocked to replace highways in other cities both here in the US and globally.



#93 JBB

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 08:21 AM

I don't know if it's all that surprising given that the overhead demolition started or happened in the middle of a recession and another more severe recession followed up within the decade.  Couple that with the tornado that actually help drive development farther north downtown and the fact that a lot of downtown space was occupied in that same stretch by oil and gas companies that started to fizzle out or scale down their presence downtown and you could call it even less surprising.



#94 renamerusk

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 01:45 PM

 Said by then -

 

 

 

 

wt-night.jpg

 

 Would the Avenue of Lights be better appreciated being placed in GWS?

 

https://www.dfwi.org...venue-of-lights

 

 

 

I think the Avenue of Lights is in the best place.  Once all of Lancaster is redeveloped, there will be plenty of people walking down the street to appreciate the sculptures.

 

 

 

I think the Avenue of Lights is in the best place.  Once all of Lancaster is redeveloped, there will be plenty of people walking down the street to appreciate the sculptures.

 

 

They need to be brighter, they would make more of an impact. As they stand now, they dont do much for me.

 

 

They have already been brightened once.

 

I believe they can never be fully appreciated placed in a street median where and when viewed at the same time while negotiating traffic.  The lights get lost among all of the vehicular commotion and traffic lights. Another problem is that as a work of art, the lights do not work together as a unit due to the distance between them. As they are now, they are a bit of a dud.

 

If the light were place at the north and south ends of GWS, they would create a gate effect for the square.  Just my thought.

 



#95 rriojas71

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 11:04 PM

 

I thought 10 years ago that development along Lancaster would be a little farther along than it is, but it is starting to pick up some momentum.  I agree that it is a little spread out, but the installation would look totally different in a tighter developed, more bustling streetscape.

 

yea, the slow pace of development after the highway overpass was demolished has certainly been surprising. Very much an outlier when it comes to how development has flocked to replace highways in other cities both here in the US and globally.I think the past reputation of staying North of and as far away from Lancaster still had 

I think the some of the lack of development can be attributed to Lancaster's past still with many here... which was to stay as far North and as far away from Lancaster as possible. A new Generation is here to embrace what it can be once it has actually become something... meaning that many years of Lancaster's negativity needs to be left in the past for it to grow and prosper.






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