546 replies to this topic

[youngalum]

According to the DMN today, the developers just got refinancing to do more work and find tenants that are hard to come by in that part of town.

[Jeriat]

Drug store.... grocery store... 

Both very much needed. 

[John T Roberts]

Texas Capital Bank has announced they will be moving out of the base of the Tower and into 3,000 square feet of the ground floor and the entire second floor (16,000 SF) of One City Place.

[John T Roberts]

A new restaurant is going into the City Place retail area.  It's listed as Chophouse Burger/Wild Salsa.  They've leased 7,570 square feet with space for an outdoor patio.

[Jeriat]

A new restaurant is going into the City Place retail area.  It's listed as Chophouse Burger/Wild Salsa.  They've leased 7,570 square feet with space for an outdoor patio.

 

About time.... 

Do you know which part they will be occupying? 

[Austin55]

John- Do they have a move in date? I noticed today there was some construction looking pieces (preformed walls and insulation) sitting outside in the plaza area, was wondering if something as coming. 

 

I figure (and hope) as the south tower begins to fill up, so will the retail. 

[John T Roberts]

Scheduled completion date is November.

[JBB]

It looks like this is an offshoot of the Dallas Chop House Burger that recently opened a second location in Euless.  I've been to the one in Euless and it is very similar to Twisted Root.  It was a good burger, but definitely not my favorite.  They had a good selection of cold beer with a couple of local brands on tap.

[cberen1]

I like the idea of a continued draw to the West from SS.

[gdvanc]

I do as well. As much as I love love love Sundance, it will be nice to expand the hot spots in downtown beyond that. The concentration of activity that exists now makes downtown feel smaller.

 

When I saw it was Chop House Burger, I thought it might be an expansion of Chop House Burgers in Arlington. Now I have to admit I'm a little disappointed. (The Arlington restaurant - which added a location in Mansfield, I think - has an 's' on the end. Not sure how I missed such an obvious difference in names.)

[youngalum]

Chop House and Wild Salsa are downtown Dallas restaurants.  So/So food.  Not impressed that they are coming to Fort Worth.

[BlueMound]

I've read that the Dallas Chop House has a 1 1/2 year dry-aged ribeye.
Similar to Sweetie Pie's concept in Decatur.

[claxton]

I do as well. As much as I love love love Sundance, it will be nice to expand the hot spots in downtown beyond that. The concentration of activity that exists now makes downtown feel smaller.

 

When I saw it was Chop House Burger, I thought it might be an expansion of Chop House Burgers in Arlington. Now I have to admit I'm a little disappointed. (The Arlington restaurant - which added a location in Mansfield, I think - has an 's' on the end. Not sure how I missed such an obvious difference in names.)

The Chop House burger place in Arlington is actually closed now. We stopped a few weeks back when we were in that part of town. Sign is on the door saying that the owner closed due to the need of "re-imagining" his concept.

[John T Roberts]

Signs are up in the windows for Chop House Burger and Wild Salsa.  This restaurant combo is taking the rounded retail space that is attached to the South Tower, or One City Place.

[Jeriat]

Ok, I see where they're going to be. 

I have to say... I'm a bit skeptical about Wild Salsa's location. 

[urbancowboy]

I'm wondering if we will get a CVS or other pharmacy over here. A 24 hour location would be nice.

[Jeriat]

I'm wondering if we will get a CVS or other pharmacy over here. A 24 hour location would be nice.

 

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING!

Ever since this project was finished, the large space facing Throckmorton would be perfect for a pharmacy or grocery store (Oliver's isn't really enough...) and I've been hoping that someone got in contact with CVS or someone to look into that spot. I know it's enough space... 

[Austin55]

I've seen signs and work going on for what appears to be a barber shop down from Jimmy Johns a little bit. 

 

There is also a lot of work in the retail slot on Throckmorton and Weatherford, but no idea what it is about. 

 

I think Wild Salsa recently had something like signage up at the DDRB but it was in Jan or Feb and is'nt posted anymore. 

[John T Roberts]

Austin, the Barber Shop is 18/8 Fine Men's Salon.  The other space looks as if it is a fitness center of some type.  I think you are correct about Wild Salsa/Chop House Burger seeking approval for installation of signs.

[youngalum]

Heard this place might lose a major tenant

[Austin55]

^ Retail or Office?

[JBB]

I'm assuming office. I don't think I would call any of those retail tenants "major".

[youngalum]

Office

[John T Roberts]

I was walking around downtown yesterday evening, and I noticed that the signs on the windows for Chop House Burgers and Wild Salsa had been removed.  I also noticed that very little had been done on constructing the interior since I last walked through there.  Another thing I noticed was the retail space across the second street walkway from Wild Salsa had some construction work being done and a sign that said Avanti Fort Worth. A menu was also placed in the window, but I couldn't read it due to the walkway being barricaded off next to the glass.

[renamerusk]

Heard this place might lose a major tenant

 

When?; and not when you heard about this, but when is this suppose to happen?

[Jeriat]

I was walking around downtown yesterday evening, and I noticed that the signs on the windows for Chop House Burgers and Wild Salsa had been removed.  I also noticed that very little had been done on constructing the interior since I last walked through there.  Another thing I noticed was the retail space across the second street walkway from Wild Salsa had some construction work being done and a sign that said Avanti Fort Worth. A menu was also placed in the window, but I couldn't read it due to the walkway being barricaded off next to the glass.

 

I still say this should have been a residential project instead of office. 

One City Place should be a hotel and Two City Place should be apartments. It may not have guaranteed a better chance at securing premium ground level retail, but overall, it may have been a much needed, welcomed change. 

[Austin55]

Hooters might be going in.

 

Not exactly the most "classy" establishment, but better than nothing for City Place. 

[Jeriat]

Hooters might be going in.

 

Not exactly the most "classy" establishment, but better than nothing for City Place. 

 

I'll take it.

[John T Roberts]

It's official: Hooters has filed for permits to finish out a space at 150 Throckmorton in City Place.

[Urbndwlr]

I hope you're kidding. That is a terrible restaurant fit for the buildings and for Downtown.

I disagree with the previous comment that this is better than nothing.

My beef with Hooters is that they are garish looking and are a member of a big category of boring ordinary, suburban chain restaurants.  Central Fort Worth's appeal is, in part, that it is different from the sameness found in too many suburbs.  When the lines get blurred too much, it undermines the appeal of Downtown.

 

To clarify, I am not in favor of banning restaurants like this (even if it were legally possible),  I just think they are bad for Downtown and our urban districts.

[John T Roberts]

First of all, I am not kidding.  Permits have been filed to finish out a space at 150 Throckmorton for Hooters.  I do agree with you in that the more of these chain restaurants that we have, the less unique that downtown becomes. 

[Doohickie]

I think you need a mix.  Some visitors like to travel for the sake of seeing new things, but they may want to have some familiar choices available.  Honestly I'm surprised we don't have a McDonald's downtown.  Seriously.  And think about it:  with frequent visits from ESPN for College Game Day and other sports events, don't you think Hooter's is a natural complement to that crowd? Also, it's not far from Panther Island Pavilion and it kind of goes with that okay too.

 

Lower your high brows and let some guys have some fun.

[Urbndwlr]

Let's not try to frame this as some sort of class-ism.   I have no problem whatsoever with cheap food or festive restaurants and bars.  I do have a problem with lame, unimaginative restaurants opening because it just makes parts of our city more "everywhere USA" , or lame.  I think the landlords got tired of having each of their restaurant prospects flake out for various reasons, and they threw in the towel and took the tenant who has been trying to get into downtown for years.  

[Jeriat]

Actually, I'm GLAD we don't have a McDonalds here.

Nothing to do with our downtown "looking like Disneyland" or any of that... I just personally hate McNasty's.

 

I'm a little more surprised we don't have a Fuzzy's in downtown. I mean, at least that's a city institution.

[johnfwd]

I'm having trouble figuring out the acceptable "standard of quality" for downtown restaurants.  Our downtown already has a variety of eateries.  Why is "Hooter's" persona non grata when "Jake's Hamburgers" isn't?

[John T Roberts]

Could it be that Jake's is a local chain and Hooters is not?

 

The one fast food restaurant that I would love to return to downtown would be Whataburger.  They used to be located in Sundance Square on the southwest corner of 3rd and Houston, where Saviano's was located. 

[JBB]

I can't speak for anyone, but I don't think the objection to Hooter's is about waitresses in skimpy outfits like you also see at Jake's. I wouldn't like Hooter's any more that I do if the waitresses were wearing parkas.

I don't have a big issue with chains. I get their place in the world and even in a downtown area like FW. They draw in people, they make a lot of money for the tax coffers, they offer something for people who don't like to step out of their comfort zone. When I go to NYC, I have zero desire to go to Olive Garden or Bubba Gump's in Times Square, but the lines of people waiting to get in tell me that someone does.

The fact that Chili's and Bennigan's disappeared from downtown FW years ago shows one of my problems with chains: they typically have a short shelf life in some cases. The only thing that distinguishes Hooter's is their gimmick. Outside of that, they're not doing anything particularly unique. I prefer the wings at Buffalo Bros. or Duff's in Southlake (still a chain, but the only location outside of upstate NY or Ontario).

I'm not crazy about Hooter's, but I can't get real worked up about them locating downtown. Maybe it draws more people to the area and makes a semi-local chain like Chop House Burger take a chance (since they seem to have given up on a City Place location).

[Doohickie]

Let's not try to frame this as some sort of class-ism.   I have no problem whatsoever with cheap food or festive restaurants and bars.  I do have a problem with lame, unimaginative restaurants opening because it just makes parts of our city more "everywhere USA" , or lame.  I think the landlords got tired of having each of their restaurant prospects flake out for various reasons, and they threw in the towel and took the tenant who has been trying to get into downtown for years.  

 

That's capitalism for ya.  If you want to do a local, cool, imaginative restaurant in that space and you think you can make money, you could have approached the landlords with your concept.  In the meantime, if other businesses "flaked out" for whatever reasons, why should the owner turn down someone willing to pay money for the space?  Will I go there?  Probably not even once.  But I'd rather see Hooter's there than empty space.

[gdvanc]

Chains are going to open up in your downtown if there are potential diners there. It might actually be troubling if they didn't, given that so many people look for what they're comfortable with when visiting another town. Neither the Hooters near Madison Square Garden nor the one near the Staples Center make NYNY or LA seem like Anywhere, USA. If Hooters has that impact on FW, then that's more a symptom of the problem than the actual problem.

 

Veering off the City Place topic, but to me the best way to support local establishments is to increase the residential density. People living downtown are much more likely to try local restaurants than people visiting for a few days (unless they're visiting locals who know where to eat). Also increasing the frequency and draw of downtown events where people who wouldn't head downtown just to eat will come for the 'show' and catch a bite before or after; people visiting from around the Metroplex are more likely to have some familiarity with at least the local chains.

 

One thing I like about the location is that, as mentioned before, it might expand the downtown activity a block or two. And people walking there from the convention center or the downtown hotels are going to pass by several other places they might be willing to try while they're here.

 

It would be nice to see time data on the number and capacity of restaurants downtown broken down by nat'l vs reg'l vs local, by segment, by price, by cuisine, etc. Anyone have that handy, say for the past 10 years? That might help me to know if I need to freak out over Hooters.

[John T Roberts]

Although I am not a fan of Hooters, it will be nice to have some activity in the City Place Complex. Just think how long it has been since there has been activity in that super block.  I guess you could say that it has been since the late 1970's when the Tandy Center was completed.  However, that was an inward oriented mall, and did nothing to promote pedestrian activity on the street.  Going back further, the Leonard's Home Store and Subway from 1963 did generate a lot of activity there. 

 

JBB, I hate to admit it, but on my first trip to NYC, I was guilty of eating at the Olive Garden in Times Square.  My friends and I had a late flight, and we had not eaten since before we left DFW Airport.  We were all so hungry that we didn't care what or where we ate.  I actually thought that the food there was below Fort Worth's Olive Garden standards.  It did serve its purpose.  For the record, in my subsequent trips to NYC, I did not do that again.  I always ate at a local, non-national chain, restaurant. 

[JBB]

I went to NYC with a group on my first trip and we ended up at Bubba Gump's on the first night. We had tickets to a show and were running late getting from our hotel to the theater. It was on the way and my hunger kept me from protesting. It was bad as I expected.

[Austin55]

Avanti seems to be nearing completion. Looks like a high quality place. Here is a website with more info. Most entrees seem to start at over $20, to much for me. I didn't see anything about Hooters, not sure where it will be going.

 

 

 

 

[John T Roberts]

I thought that maybe the Hooters was going in where Wild Salsa and Chop House Burgers were finishing out the space.  The last time I looked inside, it appeared no work had been done for weeks.

[Jeriat]

Selfish thought:

I really wish the new arena was being built next door, replacing the Library and superblock/Tarrant County Plaza. 

Again, just my selfish thought...

[RD Milhollin]

Selfish thought:

I really wish the new arena was being built next door, replacing the Library and superblock/Tarrant County Plaza. 
 

 

 Wow, maybe they could have brought the rodeo animals in and out through the old subway tunnel... wonder if Ed ever thought of that angle?

[Jeriat]

 

Selfish thought:

I really wish the new arena was being built next door, replacing the Library and superblock/Tarrant County Plaza. 
 

 

 Wow, maybe they could have brought the rodeo animals in and out through the old subway tunnel... wonder if Ed ever thought of that angle?

 

 

You know he didn't. 

Everything rodeo related HAS to be near WRMC. My thoughts on it were having the Library and Tarrant County Plaza built somewhere else while the new arena is built right there. I know it would upset the anti-superblock folks, as it would create an even bigger superblock with a 14k-16k seat arena and all, but for something the size of a multi-purpose arena, you'd at least understand instead of having a public library take up 2 blocks and a government building take up 4 with really 2/3 of it being used for something useful. 

Maybe one day, but it's just a dream now... which gives me an idea for my next thread I'll post. 

[Austin55]

Article on Hooters+rendering. Pretty strong negative reaction to it. 

 

http://www.star-tele...le56471863.html

[Jeriat]

Some of those people don't seem to understand what "explicit" is...

[johnfwd]

What brings to my mind the downtown residents' definition of "sexually explicit" is the city's ordinance definition below...not a restaurant per se but caberet is close to my thinking on this issue:

 

"ADULT ENTERTAINMENT CABARET:  A nightclub, bar, lounge, or similar commercial establishment that provides or features to customers live performances by employees or entertainment personnel which are distinguished or characterized by any one or more of the following:  A. an emphasis on the exposure of “specified anatomical areas”; or  B. an emphasis on “specified sexual activities”; or  C. an emphasis on “nudity”, “state of nudity” or “simulated nudity”; or  D. a combination of any of the above."

 

The city also defines a "sexually oriented business" but the elements are similar to the above.

 

Since Hooters' personnel do not expose their specified anatomical areas, don't engage in sexual activities while serving food, and do not pose in the nude, the only offense to downtown residents would seem to be to their particular sense of morality.  Now, perhaps if it was Rick's Cabaret wanting to do business at City Place, that might make a difference.

[Volare]

The Horror... The Horror...