62 replies to this topic

[johnfwd]

Gorgeous building. Reminds me of the construction of "The Bow" up in Calgary that is ongoing. Fort Worth is certainly being left behind by our fellow Cowtowns.

My first thoughts were that the Devon Tower (DT) in OKC would, because of it height, be an awkward fit in an otherwise middle range skyline. The DT actually enhances the OKC skyline from most perspectives. Give those thoughts, I have been a skeptical about such an overpowering tower being added to DTFW. No more. Sometimes I think that XTO has been seduced by the success of the Basses renovation of DTFW and has tried to out duel the Basses. I am also aware that, yet again, DTFW will likely get another David M Schwartz mid-size building(s) and that he is tasked to design within a 200-ft ceiling so that it is appropriate for the Sundance Square theme.

The founder of Devon Energy states that he wanted to give to his company, its employees and the city an impressive structure that all could be proud of. He has done so; and has also sparked a revitalization of DTOKC. He has also created a benchmark for other "Cowtowns". XTO seems to be DTFW's best hope of meeting or surpassing that benchmark and creating its own revitalization along DTFW's iconic Seventh/Eighth Street Financial Corridor. I hope that Mr. Simpson has an occasion to travel to OKC in the near future; and perhaps to be inspired by the boldness of one of his peers.

As one may conclude, I am becoming more obsessed watching Fort Worth being left in the shadows of Austin and Oklahoma City as projects such as the DT becomes a reality.

Keep Fort Worth folksy.

No need to apologize for being obsessed about hometown civic pride. Unfortunately, Fort Worth has one major difference from OKC or Austin. It sits in the shadow of Big D.

[renamerusk]

Gorgeous building. Reminds me of the construction of "The Bow" up in Calgary that is ongoing. Fort Worth is certainly being left behind by our fellow Cowtowns.

My first thoughts were that the Devon Tower (DT) in OKC would, because of it height, be an awkward fit in an otherwise middle range skyline. The DT actually enhances the OKC skyline from most perspectives. Give those thoughts, I have been a skeptical about such an overpowering tower being added to DTFW. No more. Sometimes I think that XTO has been seduced by the success of the Basses renovation of DTFW and has tried to out duel the Basses. I am also aware that, yet again, DTFW will likely get another David M Schwartz mid-size building(s) and that he is tasked to design within a 200-ft ceiling so that it is appropriate for the Sundance Square theme.

The founder of Devon Energy states that he wanted to give to his company, its employees and the city an impressive structure that all could be proud of. He has done so; and has also sparked a revitalization of DTOKC. He has also created a benchmark for other "Cowtowns". XTO seems to be DTFW's best hope of meeting or surpassing that benchmark and creating its own revitalization along DTFW's iconic Seventh/Eighth Street Financial Corridor. I hope that Mr. Simpson has an occasion to travel to OKC in the near future; and perhaps to be inspired by the boldness of one of his peers.

As one may conclude, I am becoming more obsessed watching Fort Worth being left in the shadows of Austin and Oklahoma City as projects such as the DT becomes a reality.

Keep Fort Worth folksy.

No need to apologize for being obsessed about hometown civic pride. Unfortunately, Fort Worth has one major difference from OKC or Austin. It sits in the shadow of Big D.

Or IMO, in the shadow of Big B = Bass. It seems that no one will do anything without a nod of approval of Sundance Square ["remember the streetcar derailment"]. Sundance Square seems to determine when there is a need for additional office space in downtown and elsewhere; and then supplies just enough of new space to keep its own considerable holdings at or near capacity with one suburban-midrise building after another; and which admittedly makes me uneasy but prepared to label Sundance Square as "Rasputin Square".
Now XTO/Exxon is a horse of a different color. It is an international goliath, that even Sundance Square is unlikely to sway when it decides to proceed to build a speculative project to house the thousands of XTO/Exxon employees scattered around Fort Worth and North Texas plus other energy/financial companies into one building. I imagine that XTO/Exxon will want to build a signature building as Devon Energy has done that will finally break the stranglehold that Sundance Square has upon downtown and lead to more players in the downtown office market.

[JBB]

What seems more likely: an invisible conspiracy of one family keeping building heights below a certain height for reasons unknown or the many surface lots scattered across downtown producing market conditions that don't make massive high rise construction economically prudent? Sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one.

[RD Milhollin]

What seems more likely: an invisible conspiracy of one family keeping building heights below a certain height for reasons unknown or the many surface lots scattered across downtown producing market conditions that don't make massive high rise construction economically prudent? Sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one.

Exxon, the parent company to XTO, just abandoned high rise downtown space in Houston for a set of "suburban mid-rise buildings" in the suburbs. XTO has also renovated a fair amount of square footage right downtown in recent yearsto class A standards. I wouldn't look to them to invest in a new high rise in Fort Worth anytime soon. Do you really think of the Schwartz 20-something-story Sundance buildings as suburban mid-rise? To me they are a lot more attractive from street-level than 50 story glass towers. They probably create a lot less downdraft and canyon-effect winds than tall buildings would, keeping the street level more pedestrian friendly. The scale is not necessarily the antithesis of "urban"; Washington DC, Paris, Madrid, and London, to name a few real cities, have extensive urban districts with buildings at or less than 20 floors. Without significant public transit 50 floors of office workers hitting the streets at closing time would create a traffic nightmare for Fort Worth, especially given the relative paucity of downtown dwellings. to walk to. I'm certainly not against taller buildings, but given economic factors (see recent comments above) and social/planning concerns I would prefer to see them dispersed throughout and around the downtown area rather than concentrated together just for the benefit of the postcard industry.

[renamerusk]

What seems more likely: an invisible conspiracy of one family keeping building heights below a certain height for reasons unknown or the many surface lots scattered across downtown producing market conditions that don't make massive high rise construction economically prudent? Sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one.

Thanks for your perspective. I admit that I had climbed out on a conspiracy limb that I am not particularly fond of; but when you see Oklahoma City speeding ahead of Fort Worth, maybe my frustration can be better understood.

Keep Fort Worth Folksy.

[JBB]

What's happening in OKC doesn't have any impact whatsoever on my opinion of Fort Worth and and it really shouldn't have an impact on anyone's opinion. There are plenty of good things happening in Fort Worth, all of which I would take in a heartbeat over a 50 story building.

[renamerusk]

Now that the Landmark Tower is gone, I have to say that I like the site as a small park (without parking of course).  It is surrounded by some very handsome buildings and could be such a nice pocket park.  So here is my question:  Is there room enough for an odd shaped 50+ story skyscraper on the W. T. Waggoner Block; one of course that will mirror the graceful buildings now fronting Landmark Tower Block?

 

Keep Fort Worth folksy

[Jeriat]

Now that the Landmark Tower is gone, I have to say that I like the site as a small park (without parking of course).  It is surrounded by some very handsome buildings and could be such a nice pocket park.  So here is my question:  Is there room enough for an odd shaped 50+ story skyscraper on the W. T. Waggoner Block; one of course that will mirror the graceful buildings now fronting Landmark Tower Block?

 

Keep Fort Worth folksy

50? No. 

25-30? Certainly. 30, max. 

Would still like to see a tower on that lot, though. 

[cberen1]

I'm just thinking out loud here.  I kind of think it makes sense for the high capacity buildings to be on the periphery of downtown rather than in the middle.  Traffic down 7th is already a mess.  Adding a million square feet and how ever many additional cars a day right in the middle could be rough.  It makes the whole "walkable downtown" harder to achieve.  I'm not sure a plaza is the answer, but some kind of public space would be cool.

 

If I was going to pick blocks for a 50+ story building, here are my favorites:

 

Any of the 3 blocks along 10th street between Florence and Burnett.

The block immediately North of the TWC on Taylor and Texas

The United Way building block (slated for a hotel) or the Block to the North (has Embargo on it I think)

The two blocks between Jones, Calhoun, 5th and 7th

 

And if you really wanted a big boy, there's the mega block where the Tandy Technology center was located.  Four city blocks together.  You could really ge creative there.

 

There's nothing tall over by the corner of Henderson and Belknap.  I wonder if the eventual fabric of that area will be more suited to small buildings.

[Jeriat]

I'm just thinking out loud here.  I kind of think it makes sense for the high capacity buildings to be on the periphery of downtown rather than in the middle.  Traffic down 7th is already a mess.  Adding a million square feet and how ever many additional cars a day right in the middle could be rough.  It makes the whole "walkable downtown" harder to achieve.  I'm not sure a plaza is the answer, but some kind of public space would be cool.

 

If I was going to pick blocks for a 50+ story building, here are my favorites:

 

Any of the 3 blocks along 10th street between Florence and Burnett.

The block immediately North of the TWC on Taylor and Texas

The United Way building block (slated for a hotel) or the Block to the North (has Embargo on it I think)

The two blocks between Jones, Calhoun, 5th and 7th

 

And if you really wanted a big boy, there's the mega block where the Tandy Technology center was located.  Four city blocks together.  You could really ge creative there.

 

There's nothing tall over by the corner of Henderson and Belknap.  I wonder if the eventual fabric of that area will be more suited to small buildings.

 

How so? There are plenty of cities with much taller buildings that are still walkable. Just don't have so much parking in the core. 

As for the spaces you mentioned, all of those would be great, especially the Tandy Tech center which had multiple buildings planed originally. 

Also, you pretty much pointed out all the spaces me and Austin worked on for highrises...

[cberen1]

How so? There are plenty of cities with much taller buildings that are still walkable. Just don't have so much parking in the core. 
 

 

Yeah, there are plenty of cities with tall central buildings that are walkable, but when you consider Fort Worth's already relatively narrow sidewalks, small downtown city blocks (leading large buildings to occupy as much of it as possible), and lack of widely used public transportation, I just think it makes a lot of sense for Fort Worth to put its employment and traffic capacity at the periphery.  Quick access to the highway system.  Less congested roads in the interior.  Easy in, easy out for drivers.  People don't want to walk the canyons.

 

Alternatively, you could say you want to put all the common interest stuff in the middle so it is easiest to access by the greatest number of people.  Take this Landmark Tower block, for example.  Assume you put something on that specific block that people will like and want to access during the work day and on nights and weekends (park, plaza, ampitheater, whatever).  Because it's centrally located it's easily walkable by lots and lots of people.  People can get there and use the space with relatively ease.  It's convenient.  If it were on the periphery it would be accessible by fewer people downtown (but more people from outside downtown if that's the goal).  Burnett Plaza, for example, is basically on the edge of current downtown and is just far enough away from most of the downtown folks that the park is rarely used.  The water gardens has a similar problem, although I think Lancaster development will help that a lot.

 

There's a natural corridor downtown from the courthouse to the Water Gardens.  Having another public space between the convention center and Sundance Square would be awesome.  The more I type about it the better it sounds to me.  Ok.  I'm 100% convinced that block needs to be public space of some kind.  Maybe something like La Plaza des Voges.

[johnfwd]

Ideally, all major buildings concentrated in the center of the CBD would be linked via an over-head monorail or a subway system, for those who are not ambulatory.  Which is one advantage of greater density toward the middle.  In this forum, we've also talked about underground tunnels linking structures downtown for walkers, but that doesn't seem to be in vogue in U.S. cities these days.

[Austin55]

There's a natural corridor downtown from the courthouse to the Water Gardens.  Having another public space between the convention center and Sundance Square would be awesome.  The more I type about it the better it sounds to me.  Ok.  I'm 100% convinced that block needs to be public space of some kind.  Maybe something like La Plaza des Voges.

 

General Worth Square? Ok so it's a bit awkward, but there you have it.