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New City Hall Site (Poll Now Irrelevant)

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Poll: Future City Hall (25 member(s) have cast votes)

What site/building would make for a better City Hall in the future?

  1. TCC May Owens Center site (2 votes [8.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.00%

  2. the old Post Office (12 votes [48.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 48.00%

  3. T&P Warehouse (3 votes [12.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.00%

  4. Somewhere else (8 votes [32.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.00%

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#151 Big Frog II

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:06 PM

I wonder if the downtown library could go in there as well as City Hall.(The T&P Warehouse)  That would give the city two valuable pieces of property to sell.



#152 renamerusk

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:53 PM

At 580,000 sf, I think that the warehouse can accommodate the bulk of the bureaucratic staff currently officed in the today's City Hall plus the digital library of the future with space left over. 

 

I recommend that the City go forward with acquiring the T&PW and then patiently wait for or partner with the USPS to build a chamber and support building at the rear of the USPS.

 

This location is far and away the best location for a Civic Center complex being that it is located adjacent to a transit station. Keeping one of the buildings and bring the other under the public umbrella is the surest way to keep both buildings from being abandoned and allowed to deteriorate.



#153 RD Milhollin

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 11:07 PM

I voted for "other".

 

I say take out the Zipper Building and straighten out and extend/improve 13th St. so it provides a direct route from Henderson St. to Throckmorton St. at the Omni Hotel. Then take out the diagonal stretch of Texas Street; stub it off to the east at the existing City Hall.

 

Next, excavate down three floors the land from "new" 13th St. north to Old City Hall. Construct underground parking there. The 2/3 of that lot south of City Hall becomes the City Hall Plaza. South of that the remaining 1/3 of the lot gets a high rise "New City Hall", height depending on projected needs of city staff and functions needing a central city location. Decentralize other city functions to "urban villages" as necessary for obvious cost and service reasons. Install underground horizontal elevators between the two city hall structures as part of the parking structure design.

 

Sell Zipper Bldg., associated parking lot, and Lancaster Ave. frontage to a real developer with design restrictions to complement architecture in the area, with some incentive for more rather than fewer floors, and required parking garage at the north edge facing the new 13th Street that could be shared with city employees or city customers.

 

Clean all the clutter out of Old City Hall and restore to original open and airy design. Either move the unfortunately placed Light Sculptures along Lancaster Ave. or the oddly-placed "Working Man" sculpture in Burnett Park to City Hall Plaza or commission a new significant art piece to go there. If available ask donors to fund a re-acquisition of the Calder "Eagle" from wherever the heck it is now to come back as a centerpiece of the new plaza.



#154 Austin55

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 02:41 PM

Plot twist: It is being announced that the former Pier 1 building is being purchased for the new City Hall.

It sounds like the the existing City Hall will remain for some time.  



#155 Jeriat

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 03:30 PM

Plot twist: It is being announced that the former Pier 1 building is being purchased for the new City Hall.

It sounds like the the existing City Hall will remain for some time.  

 

Talk about an upgrade.

This would instantly become one of the BEST looking city halls in the United States, leaving one of the worst... which they can get rid of. I'd be okay with the wrecking ball and replacemet for it.


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#156 John T Roberts

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 09:56 PM

I believe there is a deed restriction on the current City Hall Site in that it has to remain with a municipal function.  This means that it probably won't be demolished.  I don't think we would want to have another library site deed restriction fiasco like we did in the 1980s to 2000s.



#157 Doohickie

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Posted 03 December 2020 - 07:31 AM

Then make it a public parking lot.
My blog: Doohickie

#158 txbornviking

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Posted 03 December 2020 - 08:34 AM

spitballing here but...

demolish and make a public green space?

close Jennings between 10th and Texas Street

make the clustered intersection of Jennings/Texas/12 into a "modern roundabout

if I recall correctly some city development dept build the Parker House building along Lancaster and then sold it for a profit, perhaps then seek a similar outcome for the lots that are currently bounded by Texas-Jennings-13th St-Taylor St?



#159 elpingüino

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Posted 03 December 2020 - 10:12 AM

I don't think we would want to have another library site deed restriction fiasco like we did in the 1980s to 2000s.


I hadn't heard about this so I did some digging. John explains the back story in an early forum post, http://www.fortworth...opic=662&p=9108

#160 johnfwd

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Posted 03 December 2020 - 02:06 PM

From the FWBP article announcing the proposed purchase, I excerpted the passage below (in boldface italic).

 

https://fortworthbus...ier-1-building/

 

The functions that would move to the new location would be from the current City Hall, the West Annex and Gordon Swift locations, the 13th Street annex, the Zipper Annex (except for some operations) and La Gran Plaza leases. The Fort Worth Police Central Division Headquarters (Jones and Hemphill operations) and Police Administrative Support would move into the current City Hall location. Plans for the Fort Worth Central Library will be announced later.

 

I take it the municipal courts will not be relocating from 1000 Throckmorton.



#161 Austin55

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Posted 03 December 2020 - 02:28 PM

Not a lot of changes then as far as physical structures or new development opportunity goes. 

 



#162 JBB

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Posted 03 December 2020 - 02:49 PM

Anyone hear anything about what the city plans to do with the buildings left at Broadcast Hill?  At one time, I had heard that PD administrative support and some of the staff and officers from the Central Division operation near Sundance Square were going there.



#163 Urbndwlr

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Posted 08 December 2020 - 02:28 PM

I'm not clear - are functions like City Council meetings, zoning & planning hearings moving to the Pier 1 building?

Since city staff members who work in planning, development, legal etc have to attend those, I'd assume that all those departments will either move with it or stay at current building. 

 

Anyone know? 

 

Regarding accommodating future office users, I don't see why the City couldn't contract out the leasing/management of several floors of office space.  Could be made available to future corporate tenants (perhaps operated blindly so not directly influenced by City officials) - and could function as a shorter-term office option for companies needing immediate landing spot in town, and would provide income to the City.  Whether companies would LIKE to be in the same building as the City is a different matter.  It might reduce the appeal of the office space to many firms. 

 

In the urban planning department, this seems like an opportunity to better connect the Upper West Side to the central core of Downtown.  Summit Avenue could get a pedestrian improvement, making it easier to cross on foot.  Currently it feels a bit uncomfortable to cross.  Think could be accomplished with modest retrofit, crossings, curb bulb-outs at intersections. 



#164 Dylan

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Posted 08 December 2020 - 10:11 PM

Is the Fort Worth city government large enough to fill this building? If not, I wonder if the city will become a landlord or leave some of the building vacant.

 

This building seems way too big to be city hall- especially if the city plans to maintain a presence at the current city hall.

 

EDIT: Disregard my above post- an article in the Pier 1 Building thread (which I thought I was posting in) suggests that the city will be a landlord and lease out space in the new city hall building.


-Dylan


#165 JBB

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 10:49 AM

Current city hall is around 214k square feet and Pier One is listed at 672k, but that probably also includes the parking garage.  The way I interpreted what I've read is that the city will occupy the open space, act as a landlord until they ride out the current leases, and grow into that space as it opens up.



#166 John T Roberts

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 10:52 AM

JBB, I have interpreted what has been published the same way.



#167 ramjet

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 03:13 PM

Current city hall is around 214k square feet and Pier One is listed at 672k, but that probably also includes the parking garage.  The way I interpreted what I've read is that the city will occupy the open space, act as a landlord until they ride out the current leases, and grow into that space as it opens up.

 

That's exactly what Travis County did down here.  They bought the 15-story Chase Bank building in downtown Austin initially bringing the Commissioners Court to the building.  They moved other county departments in as leases of commercial tenants expired.  I think there one floor left in the building that houses commercial tenants who pay rent to the county for their offices.



#168 JBB

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 03:20 PM

Didn't TCC essentially do that with the old Radio Shack campus?  It's a smart move.  I'm not normally an advocate of government getting into the property management business, but it allows them to recover part of their initial investment or at the very least cover the maintenance and operation of the building.



#169 Dylan

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 03:44 PM

Current city hall is around 214k square feet and Pier One is listed at 672k, but that probably also includes the parking garage.  The way I interpreted what I've read is that the city will occupy the open space, act as a landlord until they ride out the current leases, and grow into that space as it opens up.

 

Since when do office space numbers include garages?

 

Even if Pier 1's office space number does include its garage, the Pier 1 Building seems way too big for City Hall to grow into.


-Dylan


#170 John T Roberts

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 04:02 PM

Before the Pier 1 Imports building was even constructed, the architect gave me information on the building to put on my website.  The numbers given to me were that the building was 20 stories with a total of 440,000 square feet.  The average floor size was 23,500 square feet.  TAD.org lists the building at 672,000 square feet.  Many times, the list all of the footage on a commercial site, so it wouldn't surprise me if that number included the parking garage. 



#171 JBB

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 04:03 PM

I wasn't saying that.  I was going by the numbers on TAD which only gives a single square footage number for the entire property of 672k.  The garage, office building, and land are listed as a single property.

 

The office building is 460k square feet according to this post from 2008.  Sorry, I should have dug a little deeper to avoid the confusion.

 

http://www.fortworth...ic=2966&p=45094



#172 John T Roberts

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 06:33 PM

The 460,000 square feet is gross.  My number of 440,000 is probably leaseable square feet.  JBB, don't worry about the confusion.



#173 beverlyb

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 12:58 PM

The Pier One sign came down from the building this morning (1/28/2021). The Fort Worth city flag is also now flying. I took pictures, but couldn't post them. This was around 11:30 am.

 

1:00 PM the city flag is gone.  :laugh:



#174 Nitixope

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 01:47 PM

beverlyb, Thanks for the update.  You'll need to use a third party site to host your photos.  Go to https://imgur.com/ and it is free, you set up an account and then upload to your images to your folder and then copy paste the image address/URL into your forum post using the little "add image" button.  Hope this helps!

#175 beverlyb

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 05:46 PM

Here are the Pier One pictures I took earlier. Thanks Nitixope for the help. They're not fancy, just iPhone snaps.

 

When they took down the sign, they only did a few letters at a time. There was a lot of up and down on that bucket contraption.

 

cDRaMXY.jpg?

 

3DpuEQq.jpg?1

 

ETseA9V.jpg?



#176 Nitixope

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 06:24 PM

Nice vantage point!! Those photos are great. You must be in the Broadstone on 5th....I guess Cash America is too far to see that side of the building. Keep em coming, you have a front row seat to all the action.

#177 Jeriat

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 06:45 PM

 
ETseA9V.jpg?


Can we get a REAL city flag, now? Seems like a golden opportunity with the move coming.

7fwPZnE.png

 

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#178 Nitixope

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 08:03 PM

How about a flag design challenge?

#179 Jeriat

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Posted 29 January 2021 - 03:03 PM

How about a flag design challenge?


On the forum or by the city?

7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#180 Nitixope

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Posted 29 January 2021 - 07:38 PM

How about a flag design challenge?

On the forum or by the city?

Forum

#181 Austin55

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Posted 30 January 2021 - 06:14 PM

Beverley, are the lights still coming on? The city came into full control of the building on Wednesday so I'm curious if they are continuing to turn them on.



#182 beverlyb

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Posted 30 January 2021 - 09:42 PM

Beverley, are the lights still coming on? The city came into full control of the building on Wednesday so I'm curious if they are continuing to turn them on.

 

If you are talking about the crown, yes those lights are still on. At least they were on tonight (1/30). It will be interesting to see if they continue to change them for special occasions.  



#183 John T Roberts

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Posted 30 January 2021 - 11:23 PM

I'm guessing that the city will continue to change the color and pattern for special occasions.  I think the big question will be whether it remains illuminated at all.



#184 Volare

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Posted 02 February 2021 - 05:47 PM

They had a big City bash today at the new site. They already have the ridiculous orange longhorn sticker on the door. Waiting for the 200 foot wide rusting version to go up on the side of the building.

 

This whole move to Pier 1 happened with a speed rarely- if ever- seen in Fort Worth. The first post on this board was just 2 months ago.



#185 JBB

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Posted 02 February 2021 - 06:15 PM

Things move fast when you have a motivated seller losing their backside in an economic downturn and a city with easy (borrowed) cash.  A mayor leaving office in the next few months looking to top off her legacy probably greased the skids a bit.



#186 Jeriat

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Posted 02 February 2021 - 07:28 PM

They had a big City bash today at the new site. They already have the ridiculous orange longhorn sticker on the door. Waiting for the 200 foot wide rusting version to go up on the side of the building.
 
This whole move to Pier 1 happened with a speed rarely- if ever- seen in Fort Worth. The first post on this board was just 2 months ago.


So it's really OFFICIAL official...

I wish the city would continue this practice of being expedient with their projects, but I realize that's still way too much to ask for...

7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#187 beverlyb

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Posted 02 February 2021 - 09:43 PM

I missed seeing all the activities. I do face north, but I can only see the Pier One, I mean city hall, building and parking lot if I stand in front of my  window. I am curious to see if the front lot will be for public parking. The new city hall has a ton of parking, but the front lot is the easiest to find. Broadstone has a visitor's parking problem. I would hate to see it get worse. On the other hand maybe now Broadstone visitors can use city hall parking. 



#188 Nitixope

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Posted 03 February 2021 - 01:57 PM

Interesting article....lots of topics in there and this one too.

 

I should know the answer to this but I don't...."so when did FW voters approve building/buying a new city hall?"  I'm sure it was on one of the ballots, but I've slept since then.



#189 JBB

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Posted 03 February 2021 - 02:23 PM

Since they found a way to pay for it without direct voter approval, they approved it with the last city council election.



#190 Volare

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Posted 03 February 2021 - 04:45 PM

"Jungus Jordan added before seconding the vote. Earlier that morning, he said citizens wouldn’t have to pay for parking at the new city hall."

 

Any wagers on how long before they make all the parking around the new City Hall pay parking too?? We didn't have to pay for parking in lots of places, until a few years ago, then we did!



#191 Austin55

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Posted 03 February 2021 - 04:58 PM

They should also subsidize transit passes for trip to city hall then.

#192 ramjet

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Posted 03 February 2021 - 07:33 PM

The CoFW is utilizing the issuance of certificates of obligation to fund the purchase of the new city hall, which allows local governments to issue debt to pay for things without voter approval.  The Texas legislature is trying to pass statutes this session to limit this widely used work around to voter approval.



#193 Nitixope

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Posted 03 February 2021 - 08:27 PM

But we did vote on the public half of Dickies Arena PPP.

#194 txbornviking

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Posted 07 February 2021 - 07:34 PM

"Jungus Jordan added before seconding the vote. Earlier that morning, he said citizens wouldn’t have to pay for parking at the new city hall."

 

Any wagers on how long before they make all the parking around the new City Hall pay parking too?? We didn't have to pay for parking in lots of places, until a few years ago, then we did!

 

2011 I had just moved back to Fort Worth and recall attending a mayoral/city council for the election that May (Betsy and Dennis were running for their 1st terms), the event was held at the Fort Worth Community Arts Center and this was shortly after the lot across from the CAC and Museum of Science and History began it's fee for parking... We had to pay to park to attend the event and Betsy and Dennis both talked about how the fee to park should be reconsidered and community events like the forum should be free...

 

Here we are 10yrs later, the parking fees still exist, and free parking has become more limited in the area (downtown street meters are free on weekends but not in the museum district) I learned this a hard way.



#195 John T Roberts

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Posted 07 February 2021 - 08:58 PM

I'm sorry you learned the hard way about no free parking on weekends on the streets in the Cultural District.  I always look at the meters when I park on the streets in any city to verify the hours when the parking is free or not.  Also, most cities have parking websites so you can check to see if the meters are operating.  When I have gone out of town, I have tried to check the meters ahead of time and also garages to find economical places to park.



#196 Doohickie

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 02:07 PM

 

Beverley, are the lights still coming on? The city came into full control of the building on Wednesday so I'm curious if they are continuing to turn them on.

 

If you are talking about the crown, yes those lights are still on. At least they were on tonight (1/30). It will be interesting to see if they continue to change them for special occasions.  

 

I would expect them to be more likely to be in sync with local events now that that city controls the building.


My blog: Doohickie

#197 Dylan

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 08:43 PM

The more I think about it, the more I don't like this site for city hall.

 

1- Fort Worth is already short on office space for big companies to move into. The Pier 1 building could've been used to attract a large company that needs a bunch of office space.

 

2- We're giving up an opportunity to replace a bland building that doesn't face Lancaster (the Zipper Building) with a grand building that faces Lancaster.

 

3- It's not near a commuter rail station, whereas the proposed Zipper Building site would've been near T&P station.


-Dylan


#198 Jeriat

Jeriat

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 09:44 PM

The more I think about it, the more I don't like this site for city hall.

 

1- Fort Worth is already short on office space for big companies to move into. The Pier 1 building could've been used to attract a large company that needs a bunch of office space.

 

2- We're giving up an opportunity to replace a bland building that doesn't face Lancaster (the Zipper Building) with a grand building that faces Lancaster.

 

3- It's not near a commuter rail station, whereas the proposed Zipper Building site would've been near T&P station.

 

Respectfully, I don't think all of those things really matter... 

1. I'd rather build new offices in downtown and around the center of the city.

2. I think that's going to happen, regardless.

3. Although I can kinda understand what you mean by having a train station near, there's already a bus stop near, at least. 


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