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What's happening with the realignment of Harley, demo of the Health Dept. Bldg, New Arena?

Cultural District New Arena Public Works Harley Avenue

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#51 renamerusk

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 08:59 AM

....but is it really needed? I'm not sure what is truly gained from this other than causing traffic and pedestrian concerns on game nights trying to get to Farrington Field from what I guess would be a parking lot east of the new road.....

 

 

This is much needed. This will hopefully relieve the traffic that is approaching the W7th area from northbound University Drive.

 

I agree with the concerns held by RRJ7.  I don't really understand the Trail Drive Extension unless there is something yet to be announced about developing the FF property.  Of course, this corridor would be an ideal route for some sort of transit that would connect DA and W7.

 

The probable cause of increased traffic at University@7th is the increase in automobiles as a result of the increase in population in general. 

 

Connectors are, by their design, a quick/fast shortcut.  So building connector roads are more likely to have spill over into the local streets and create more pedestrian v. motorist conflicts. 
 



#52 rriojas71

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:17 AM

This is much needed. This will hopefully relieve the traffic that is approaching the W7th area from northbound University Drive.


I'm not sure if putting a small road that runs about a 16th of a mile that connects to another congested area is going to relieve traffic. It's not much of a difference than driving to Lancaster and turning right. It just sounds unnecessary, but I could be proven wrong.

#53 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 03:34 PM

The plan looks nice on map, but Currie Street will likely see an increase in traffic.


- Dylan


#54 Jeriat

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 03:46 PM

This is much needed. This will hopefully relieve the traffic that is approaching the W7th area from northbound University Drive.


Whether it does or not, I don't mind this either way...

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#55 renamerusk

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 08:53 PM

.... It just sounds unnecessary, but I could be proven wrong.

 

You may add risky also -

 

Just wait until the first "Friday Night Football" prep school fatality caused by a student or fan darting across this busy bypass.  I don't believe that you will be proven wrong as of a number of reasons; aside from the slicing through a potentially prime chunk of land for development.



#56 Doohickie

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:12 AM

 

.... It just sounds unnecessary, but I could be proven wrong.

 

You may add risky also -

 

Just wait until the first "Friday Night Football" prep school fatality caused by a student or fan darting across this busy bypass.  I don't believe that you will be proven wrong as of a number of reasons; aside from the slicing through a potentially prime chunk of land for development.

 

There will be police directing traffic on game nights I'm sure.  If they can handle Concerts on the Green and all the people crossing University, they can handle this.


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#57 renamerusk

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:25 AM

 

 

.... It just sounds unnecessary, but I could be proven wrong.

 

You may add risky also -

 

Just wait until the first "Friday Night Football" prep school fatality caused by a student or fan darting across this busy bypass.  I don't believe that you will be proven wrong as of a number of reasons; aside from the slicing through a potentially prime chunk of land for development.

 

There will be police directing traffic on game nights I'm sure.  If they can handle Concerts on the Green and all the people crossing University, they can handle this.

 

 

 And what makes you sure; there will be the funding for additional police?  When and where do police patrol crossings along University or any where else?  But, maybe these issues have already been thought out and a determination has been made that intersecting school kids and automobiles is a low risk.

 

"What could possibly go wrong?"



#58 rriojas71

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 10:47 AM

.... It just sounds unnecessary, but I could be proven wrong.

 
You may add risky also -
 
Just wait until the first "Friday Night Football" prep school fatality caused by a student or fan darting across this busy bypass.  I don't believe that you will be proven wrong as of a number of reasons; aside from the slicing through a potentially prime chunk of land for development.
 
There will be police directing traffic on game nights I'm sure.  If they can handle Concerts on the Green and all the people crossing University, they can handle this.

I think if we have to add police to help with crossing this nothing of a street then that makes the case that there is no need for it and that it is the wrong solution.

#59 Doohickie

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 11:06 AM

You could, but regardless the police will be there to control traffic. They probably already control traffic on that side of the stadium.  (It's been a while since I've been to a game there.)


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#60 Austin55

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 04:23 PM

Via James M. Russel on Twitter

 

DPLzpbKVoAEOZjP.jpg

 

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#61 JBB

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 04:29 PM

So which plan is actually happening and is the current construction going to result in one of those plans being completed? Color me cynical, but I could see the roadway being completed and everything else left on the cutting room floor.

#62 John T Roberts

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 08:45 PM

I think they are going to complete the entire project.



#63 renamerusk

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 08:54 PM

.... Color me cynical, but I could see the roadway being completed......

 

And the roadway being used as a short cut between Lancaster and University.   I'd hoped that this corridor would someday be used as a transit only corridor (street car or bus-only).  It will become an instant pedestrian v. auto area - and the 3000 lb speeding car mowing down students.



#64 Doohickie

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 11:32 AM

And the roadway being used as a short cut between Lancaster and University.   I'd hoped that this corridor would someday be used as a transit only corridor (street car or bus-only).  It will become an instant pedestrian v. auto area - and the 3000 lb speeding car mowing down students.


:rolleyes: :laugh:


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#65 RD Milhollin

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 11:49 PM

For all the parking at that location there should be some sort of rainwater retention pond to keep all the oil and grease that collects on the surface from washing off into the river, and to absorb some of the runoff flow during heavy rain events. I know there has been parking there a long time, that retention pond should have been there years ago.



#66 renamerusk

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 01:28 PM

I think this realignment is a bad design.

 

Why should FWISD property be included as part of a "Currie - Trail Drive Connector?"  The road bed will require frequent maintenance as cars and larger commercial vehicle use the connector for a short cut.  There will have to be traffic calming devices (circles, control lights, stop signs) implemented. 

 

This is a bad idea.



#67 Doohickie

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 03:01 PM

And I think you're overreacting.


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#68 renamerusk

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 04:42 PM

And I think you're overreacting.

 

 I might be overreacting, however I will back up my concerns with this article.  Close attention should be paid to the 3rd paragraph.   Is there evidence to the contrary that would say to pit "pass through vehicular traffic" against pedestrians is a good idea?

 

http://blog.driverse...or-new-drivers/



#69 Doohickie

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 11:04 PM

So ban all parking lots.  :glare:


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#70 renamerusk

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 11:35 PM

So ban all parking lots.  :glare:

 

 Nothing so radical as that :wacko:; just don't run roads through them.



#71 John T Roberts

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 07:34 PM

Approximately one block of Currie Street will be closed for four months starting in March for the construction of this project.  The closure will be at the intersection of West Lancaster, where the new Trail Drive will connect.  Here's a link to Channel 8's story on the project and the area.

 

http://www.wfaa.com/...ction/497093296



#72 rriojas71

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 10:06 PM

Approximately one block of Currie Street will be closed for four months starting in March for the construction of this project.  The closure will be at the intersection of West Lancaster, where the new Trail Drive will connect.  Here's a link to Channel 8's story on the project and the area.
 
http://www.wfaa.com/...ction/497093296


Wow. That is going to be a nightmare until it reopens

#73 Doohickie

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:32 PM

 

So ban all parking lots.  :glare:

 

 Nothing so radical as that :wacko:; just don't run roads through them.

 

 

I know this post has been sitting here a while, but I really don't see an inherent problem.  When Farrington Field is being used for a game or event I would fully expect cops present to direct traffic if needed.  Have you ever been to an event at American Airlines Center?  All public parking is across the street and cops direct traffic on game days.


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#74 renamerusk

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 03:01 PM

 

 

So ban all parking lots.  :glare:

 

 Nothing so radical as that :wacko:; just don't run roads through them.

 

I know this post has been sitting here a while, but I really don't see an inherent problem.  When Farrington Field is being used for a game or event I would fully expect cops present to direct traffic if needed.  Have you ever been to an event at American Airlines Center?  All public parking is across the street and cops direct traffic on game days.

 

Police directing traffic does not come free.  Policemen must be paid for extra time by someone; and every policeman that is working on his or her time is unavailable if or when a major emergency occurs.

 

I have not been to an AA Center event; but that is irrelevant.  The concern that I have is creating the problem in the first place by mixing thru traffic with parking.  The solution is to by-pass the parking space entirely; thus eliminating the need for directing traffic.  Doubling down on the current situation is accentuates the problem.



#75 Doohickie

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 01:57 PM

 

 

 

So ban all parking lots.  :glare:

 

 Nothing so radical as that :wacko:; just don't run roads through them.

 

I know this post has been sitting here a while, but I really don't see an inherent problem.  When Farrington Field is being used for a game or event I would fully expect cops present to direct traffic if needed.  Have you ever been to an event at American Airlines Center?  All public parking is across the street and cops direct traffic on game days.

 

Police directing traffic does not come free.  Policemen must be paid for extra time by someone; and every policeman that is working on his or her time is unavailable if or when a major emergency occurs.

 

Have you been to a HS football game at Farrington?  There is already a considerable police presence.  I'm not sure that additional officers would be needed.


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#76 renamerusk

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 06:11 PM

(1) Have you been to a HS football game at Farrington?  (2)  There is already a considerable police presence. (3)  I'm not sure that additional officers would be needed.

 

(1) Yes.

 

(2) Their presence is largely I assume to watch and protect the fans within the stadium; and not to patrol as much the parking areas and traffic.

 

(3) If there will be additional traffic not for the game but associated with cars passing through FF,  then yes, it would be prudent to add more police and more eyes.

 

Risk management was once a responsibility that I was tasked to do at a former employer.  Management of risks was a net benefit to the organization.



#77 Doohickie

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 03:32 PM

(2) Their presence is largely I assume to watch and protect the fans within the stadium; and not to patrol as much the parking areas and traffic.
 
(3) If there will be additional traffic not for the game but associated with cars passing through FF,  then yes, it would be prudent to add more police and more eyes.


(2)  But prior to and after the games, their primary roles are traffic control, so....

 

(3)  I'm not so sure additional police will be needed.  If it's a problem, put in some crosswalk signals in front of the east stadium entrance, similar to University at the TCU campus, including some "25 mph when flashing" signs.


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#78 renamerusk

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 09:28 PM

 

(2)  But prior to and after the games, their primary roles are traffic control, so....

 

(3)  I'm not so sure additional police will be needed.  If it's a problem, put in some crosswalk signals in front of the east stadium entrance, similar to University at the TCU campus, including some "25 mph when flashing" signs.

 

(2) And so, the gates in and out of FF will be locked so that no one will be allowed to enter or exit during the game, right?  Therefore if an pedestrian is struck by an automobile, that pedestrian should not have been out there during the game.

 

(3) Crosswalk signals and flashing signs will ensure that accidents involving people and cars will not be possible,  again right?

 

See IMO, it is not "if it's a problem" so much as it is "accidents waiting to happen".



#79 Doohickie

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 09:52 PM

You're arguing to an extreme.  What you're talking about is people crossing a street.  People cross the street all the time.  Similar situations are already handled adequately in every city (ref my mentions of AAC and University through TCU campus).  It isn't like city planners don't have a clue about tools that can be used to manage the situation.  Give them some credit.

 

If crossing is going to be a big problem during Farrington Field events, just close off Trail Drive between Lancaster and Van Zandt Lane, and divert traffic down Van Zandt to Foch.


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#80 renamerusk

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:38 PM

We are talking about lots of prep school people.  The kind that you must stop in every direction when a school bus is loading and unloading.  I think that you might understand that teens have a predilection to take more risks than the general public; I see that about teens and you might not.

 

It appears that you do understand that there is the possibility, acknowledged twice, for there to be a "problem". An extreme argument would be to double down on a problematic situation once identified.  And you seem to recognize, as do I, that the solution is and has always been to by pass FF and direct the traffic down Van Zandt to Foch. Even here, the question arises why an extension of Trail Drive is necessary.

 

Problem avoided and fixed!



#81 Doohickie

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 12:02 PM

the question arises why an extension of Trail Drive is necessary.

 

Personally I think I will use it regularly when riding my bicycle.  Trail Drive itself is very lightly traveled unless there is an event at the Will Rogers complex.  This will provide a continuous connection from Trinity Park to Montgomery and points west without having to jog over a block on University.


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#82 JBB

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 12:12 PM

Connecting the extension to Foch takes away the direct connection to Lancaster and dumps all of the traffic into a congested area. I know part of the point of it is to connect with the W. 7th neighborhood, but another benefit is to provide a bypass of the Lancaster-University neighborhood.

#83 renamerusk

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:19 PM

 

the question arises why an extension of Trail Drive is necessary.

 

....This will provide a continuous connection from Trinity Park to Montgomery and points west without having to jog over a block on University.

 

 

Connecting the extension to Foch takes away the direct connection to Lancaster and dumps all of the traffic into a congested area. I know part of the point of it is to connect with the W. 7th neighborhood, but another benefit is to provide a bypass of the Lancaster-University neighborhood.

 

So far, I just don't find a legitimate rationale for the extension.  If FF is developed beyond its current use, then a through road would be in order.

 

Speaking in opposition, the extension has the potential to require that Foch Street to be widened and that is something that will hurt business during the interim.  It generates more traffic congestion at Foch@7th; and it will make Foch St. a less conducive street for pedestrians.



#84 RD Milhollin

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 11:38 PM

Connecting the extension to Foch takes away the direct connection to Lancaster and dumps all of the traffic into a congested area. I know part of the point of it is to connect with the W. 7th neighborhood, but another benefit is to provide a bypass of the Lancaster-University neighborhood.

 

Maybe a way to mitigate the potential problems discussed above would be to have Trail Drive split into a north-bound Foch Street and a south-bound Currie Street. These streets could be narrower allowing better pedestrian interface and the periodic traffic crunches could be spread out a little better on two smaller streets rather than one big one. 



#85 John T Roberts

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:03 AM

Re-routing of any part of Trail Drive to Foch Street will not work because of the extremely low clearance of the Lancaster Bridge over the street.  It is 9'-0".



#86 renamerusk

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:29 PM

It appears that the extension of Trail Drive creates more problems than the proposed purpose of its creation.  We are now suggesting speed bumps, traffic signals,  increase traffic patrol personnel, one way streets, widening streets, etc; and for what ends?

 

Trail Drive east of University seems unwarranted.  Tell me otherwise.



#87 Doohickie

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:03 PM

It appears that the extension of Trail Drive creates more problems than the proposed purpose of its creation.  We are now suggesting speed bumps, traffic signals,  increase traffic patrol personnel, one way streets, widening streets, etc; and for what ends?

 

Trail Drive east of University seems unwarranted.  Tell me otherwise.

 

Since you demanded?  No.  This will go forward, with or without your approval.  You don't think it's needed and it's a bad idea.  I get that.  It's not my job to convince you otherwise.


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#88 renamerusk

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:18 PM

 

It appears that the extension of Trail Drive creates more problems than the proposed purpose of its creation.  We are now suggesting speed bumps, traffic signals,  increase traffic patrol personnel, one way streets, widening streets, etc; and for what ends?

 

Trail Drive east of University seems unwarranted.  Tell me otherwise.

 

Since you demanded?  No.  This will go forward, with or without your approval.  You don't think it's needed and it's a bad idea.  I get that.  It's not my job to convince you otherwise.

 

I demanded nothing. If you wish to characterized my questioning as such, well that is on you. You also want to make it personal; that is on you also. I certainly did not employ you directly to convince me; it was a general request to understand why this project is needed.

 

Yes; I think it is a bad idea; and I do have a right to express my opinion. Never did I or do I seek a personal stamp of approval of this project; just searching  for a reasonable rationale for why it should be done. Bad ideas come from all levels: "Weapons of mass destruction", 45th President of US; neither of which has ever had my approval; at least I know that I did opposed these bad decisions.

 

Attacking me for scrutinizing this project is the tack you want take in lieu of presenting a plausible reason for the extension, and I am paraphrasing " it will make your cycling more accessible" and taken as you put it suggests cycling routes take priority over the potential safety of people who may be harmed by additional traffic crossing the parking lot at FF. 

 

So far, much has been suggested to mitigate the safety concerns which will potentially arise from crossing traffic over FF parking lot.  If so much is required simply to make this project safe for everybody that uses this parking lot, then it is incumbent for those seeking to do the project to demonstrate that the ends justify the means. 

 

I think we are all entitle to know why and at what cost.



#89 BlueMound

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 06:58 PM

It looks like construction has started on the Trail Drive extension project. Orange construction fencing is up and bulldozers are digging into the Farrington Field parking lot.

#90 Jeriat

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 09:01 PM

It looks like construction has started on the Trail Drive extension project. Orange construction fencing is up and bulldozers are digging into the Farrington Field parking lot.

 

Wait, what? Just now?


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg






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