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#101 steave

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Posted 02 July 2023 - 01:06 PM

Sorry, I still see building single-season swimming facilities as a waste of money with negligible long-term benefits for citizens. Why can't the city and school districts team up to build shared indoor facilities that could be used year-round by student teams and by citizens during school hours and after team times? School districts can build multi-million dollar football stadia and every high school has multiple gyms for basketball, each sport played by student athletes and a tiny (relatively speaking) percentage of the population involved in college and pro teams. Each involves the risk of serious acute and long term injuries that can seriously and negatively impact health. Swimming and water sports in general can be enjoyed the whole life and can contribute positive health benefits. What sort of agenda is being pushed by elected public bodies with budget discretion for the future health of the population?

If you've been paying attention to state politics lately, the big new thing coming out is property tax reform. The means of accomplishing that which has gotten the most attention is to repeal what authorizes school districts to levy property taxes for M&O (maintenance and operations). My understanding is this includes essentially all local school funding not associated with bond payments for capital projects. Teacher salaries, learning materials, utilities, etc. If this happens, which is likely to happen eventually because of the direction Texas politics has taken, then school districts will eventually be dependent on the state for all program funding. I think it's very uncertain if Austin would be willing to fund non-academic extracurricular activities which have a extremely high cost per participant, are only present in a minority of schools, and aren't as culturally important the way football is.

 

The other trend is the increasing number of charter schools. There is also the likelihood that Texas will have a school vouchers program eventually. Consider that FWISD has a poor reputation and declining enrollment. I believe that the percentage of students who attend non-FWISD schools will only grow. Charter schools, especially the open-enrollment ones that focus on underprivileged areas, generally don't prioritize high cost extracurricular activities or high cost physical buildings. Private schools that take vouchers may have sports facilities including natatoriums, but you can bet that will come at a fee on top of the voucher for kids to participate and exclude the poor kids. If you look at charters, many of them don't have sports (or band or art) at all, and their campuses are usually austere buildings and smaller in size than comparable public schools. So, with that in mind, I would seriously doubt that any of these schools would be interested in going along with building a community aquatics facility. They don't even pay for fully qualified teachers, they just hire instructors to read from a pre-made instructional guide.

 

Finally, I think what you've said has been tried and it hasn't worked. La Joya ISD in the RGV was the subject of a news article I read a while back where they built a recreation oriented aquatic center with a lazy river, etc, sort of like the water park in Hurst. They were justifably raked over the coals for wasting scarce educational dollars in a region that really really needs to help poor kids succeed. Secondly, in the Houston suburbs that's also kind of how it works, there aren't many public pools in suburban Harris County instead the school districts like Cy-Fair and Fort Bend ISD have these huge natatoriums and they do have programs where they bus kids from only certain schools for programs, lessons, etc and exclude others. The public really doesn't have meaningful access to these facilities. They aren't open to the public at all in many cases. Another swimming pool related thing related to this I remember reading about in the Houston Chronicle when I lived in Houston is that HISD, among many other questionable things relating to building stuff that never gets used, built not one but several 25 yd practice pools inside metal buildings for high schools on the north side and then the superintendent decided they weren't going to use them, so they were built and sit abandoned.

 

I understand what you are saying but I think it should be entirely the other way around. I think cities and counties should fund sports and cultural venues, which citizens pay for through sales and property taxes one way or another. Then, schools and community colleges which have athletic programs would lease these facilities for a fee. FWISD, private schools, and charter schools would all line up to reserve blocks of time to use the facility. This means kids regardless of what school their parents choose to put them in, have the opportunity to participate in sports programs. It also means regular citizens of all ages who pay for these things with the taxes regardless of what entity the taxes go to actually get to enjoy them.

 

This avoids the politics of having to join up a facility whose real purpose is public recreation and all-ages fitness with a school system with a separate administration and demand it spend money on something that isn't directly related to education. The cost for a school district to run a natatorium and an aquatics program could pay an entire department of math teachers or an after-school tutoring network at all schools, so there is no way outside of bougie places that have gotten accustomed to ridiculous property tax revenues like Frisco ISD that this will fly.



#102 Stadtplan

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Posted 02 July 2023 - 01:35 PM

I think indoor facilities make a lot of sense but aside from the higher price tag, part of me wonders if staffing an indoor aquatic center year-round could be a challenge. I think it was either City of a Hurst or Euless I heard was was having trouble hiring enough lifeguards for some of their aquatic programs. Most of these lifeguards are young people and likely on school break or have a mixed schedule not to mention probably competing with Hurricane Harbor, NRH2O, The Epic and Hawaiian Falls for hiring / pay.

#103 steave

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Posted 02 July 2023 - 03:08 PM

Yeah its an interesting question. Part of me thinks it may actually be easier if it was year-round because then they could hire an adult to work full-time and maybe trade the cost of yearly retraining with paying higher wages to the more permanent staff. If the facility ran year-round it wouldn't necessary have the same peak usage so it might need fewer lifeguards overall. It might be more efficient than seasonal facilities on a cost per attendee basis, if managed correctly. If you think about it, a single year-around facility would be equivalent to 4 seasonal facilities that only run 3 months of the year in terms of time/hours operated. Or not. I have no idea. I think the issue with indoor natatoriums is they are usually set up to be strictly lap pools and except for lessons and programming I don't think this has enough appeal to the mainstream. If it was just set up for adult lap swim and you had a conventional 50m olympic sized pool with 8 lanes, and you sectioned it into two 25m segments you can only have 16 to 32 users at a time for 30 minute increments and that's just not worth it. A better design would have lanes for programming but not be in that configuration full time and be full of people as much as possible.

 

I guess to kind of go back to the original issue, its that at least to me, accessibility of pools to ordinary people would be the #1 goal, right? You'd want a facility that's got reasonable hours and is open for more than just a couple months, the price of admission should be reasonable and not require a membership that tends to discourage working families, etc. It needs to be all ages - younger and older kids, adults, seniors, etc. It needs to be in an accessible geographic location. What's the most cost effective way to get that?



#104 Stadtplan

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Posted 02 July 2023 - 05:30 PM

One example facility that checks a lot of those boxes is the Euless Family Life Aquatic Park. They have the full outdoor family fun area with lazy river, kids pools etc and also the full natatorium center I think it is an indoor/ outdoor type facility where they can open or close the side walls. It takes a ton of lifeguards to run the water park, dont quote me but it felt like it is (32) lifeguards: 16 on and 16 off during the shift one of them told me. You have 16 standing guard and then 16 on break and they switch every number of minutes. It could have been 8+8 but it was a lot more than I expected.
https://goo.gl/maps/NN6TV4x9GrodcBYL8
https://www.eulesstx...tics/natatorium

#105 RD Milhollin

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Posted 02 July 2023 - 11:59 PM

I think indoor facilities make a lot of sense but aside from the higher price tag, part of me wonders if staffing an indoor aquatic center year-round could be a challenge. I think it was either City of a Hurst or Euless I heard was was having trouble hiring enough lifeguards for some of their aquatic programs. Most of these lifeguards are young people and likely on school break or have a mixed schedule not to mention probably competing with Hurricane Harbor, NRH2O, The Epic and Hawaiian Falls for hiring / pay.

There was a topic aired on NPR recently addressing this issue, and the answer investigated was "senior" lifeguards", individuals who may be retired but meet fitness requirements and are happy to get out of the house and have meaningful part-time work with significant social interaction.



#106 steave

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Posted 12 August 2023 - 12:26 PM

Forest Park Pool now has bulldozers on site and a construction trailer. They've already torn up the parking lot. I think they are about to start rebuilding the actual pool.



#107 steave

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Posted 14 October 2023 - 03:45 PM

City website:

Forest Park Pool project making waves of progress

 

Looks it will open in 2024 after all.



#108 Stadtplan

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Posted 15 December 2023 - 07:16 PM

Fort Worth Park, Recreation and Open Space Survey
https://playbigfw.com/

Take the survey until January 31 for park land/open space and help shape the future of Fort Worths parks & recreational spaces:

#109 steave

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Posted 15 December 2023 - 07:21 PM

The map is neat. You can put pins and leave a comment.



#110 steave

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Posted 28 April 2024 - 11:08 AM

The pool at Forest Park looks like it's at least 75% done, from what you can see driving by. The bathhouse, outbuildings, and water slide tower have gone up and the pool shell looks to be done. They also put it a sidewalk on the west side of park place between the pool and one of the driveways into the zoo. They just need to complete it all the way to Colonial Pkwy, then it would be contiguous all the way to Forest Park Blvd.



#111 John T Roberts

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Posted 28 April 2024 - 11:13 AM

I haven't been down there in quite some time, even though I don't live too far away.  I will try to drive by there today to take a look.



#112 John T Roberts

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Posted 29 April 2024 - 10:17 AM

I did drive by there yesterday afternoon, and the pool progress looks good.  I do think they are going to build that new sidewalk all the way from Forest Park up to Colonial Parkway.  It does appear that way from the construction that has already been done. 



#113 rriojas71

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Posted 29 April 2024 - 10:20 AM

I did drive by there yesterday afternoon, and the pool progress looks good.  I do think they are going to build that new sidewalk all the way from Forest Park up to Colonial Parkway.  It does appear that way from the construction that has already been done. 

Yeah I think it was made for the zoo employees who park along Park Place avenue.  However it would be great if they did continue it all the way to Colonial Parkway.



#114 txbornviking

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Posted 30 April 2024 - 01:25 PM

Forest Park Pool "Ribbon Cutting" announced for Friday May 24 at 6:30, with "first swim" Saturday May 25 at noon.

 

 

https://allevents.in...200026457167513



#115 JBB

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Posted 30 April 2024 - 02:36 PM

They may be able to do a ribbon cutting and first "swim", but given its current state, there is no way construction will be done by then.



#116 TLA

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Posted 30 April 2024 - 10:28 PM

On Sunday, running errands snapped a few photos driving by. Opening in a month seems ambitious. I've never been back here before; I didn't realize how secluded it feels. 

 

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#117 John T Roberts

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Posted 01 May 2024 - 07:35 AM

As I had mentioned before, this was one of the pools where I swam when I was a kid.  There also used to be a couple of secluded tennis courts to the southwest in what is now the service area and Texas Wild.  We used to go over to those courts to play because they were free and never crowded.  There is also a historic bridge over Zoo Creek back in there.  Finally, there are some historic steps down to the pool from Tillery Park, up on the bluff. 

 

TLA, I also drove through there Sunday, but I didn't take any photographs.  I also agree that one month seems ambitious.



#118 TLA

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Posted 01 May 2024 - 09:48 AM

I didn’t know there were steps connecting to Tillery Park. Good to know as a nice shortcut. Tillery Park on streetview looks nice.

I’m guessing within the zoo you can spot the haptic bridge of Zoo Creek.

#119 John T Roberts

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Posted 01 May 2024 - 10:59 AM

Growing up in the area does have its advantages.  I'm pretty sure right now those stairs are blocked with the construction at the pool. I haven't walked down them in a few years. 

 

There are several historic bridges within the zoo grounds.  Some of them you can see when you are in the zoo.  I think the one that I am referring is back in the service area for Texas Wild.  It is right off of Park Place on the south side of the street and the pool.  The creek is next to the road at that point.


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#120 rriojas71

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Posted 01 May 2024 - 12:38 PM

I didn’t know there were steps connecting to Tillery Park. Good to know as a nice shortcut. Tillery Park on streetview looks nice.

I’m guessing within the zoo you can spot the haptic bridge of Zoo Creek.

I go for evening walk around town and I chose Tillery Park last week.  My plan was to make the loop around the park and then use the stairs to go down to the pool to see how much progress has been made, but the stairs were barricaded.   I started to think about the remodel of the pool and how no news had been mentioned about the pool in a while and then a couple of days later is when post #110 happened.  A bit of serendipity I suppose.

 

Tillery Park is a pretty cool location.  I love the way it looks over the tiny valley that houses the Zoo.  I only wish it was a bit larger and there were some benches on the lower portion of the park on the west side.


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#121 txbornviking

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Posted 01 May 2024 - 01:52 PM

The children's playground at Tillery is one of the best kept "secrets" for Ft. Worth kids






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