37 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

I could've sworn there was a thread for this particular proposal, but I've not been able to find it. If someone knows of it let me know and I'll move this post. 

 

Here's the update that is being provided to the city council next week. 

 

 

This Informal Report is to provide information regarding the request for qualifications and request for proposals for the development of a convention hotel.

 

Hunden Strategic Partners, Inc., (HSP) conducted a market and feasibility analysis of Fort Worth’s downtown hospitality market, including market demand for convention type hotels and a future expansion of the Fort Worth Convention Center (FWCC).

 

On July 14, 2014, HSP presented its findings to City Council. The final report indicated, among other recommendations, that a second branded headquarters hotel of 1,000 rooms be added on a site adjacent to the FWCC.

 

Upon direction from City Council, HSP issued a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) for a convention hotel developer on September 10, 2015 for a project near the FWCC. Five submittals were received and on December 21, 2015 a Request for Proposals (RFP) was issued to two development firms.

 

During the RFP response phase, the developers requested information related to the timeline for the FWCC Phase III expansion, the timeline and cost of the infrastructure work on the realignment of Commerce Street, and amount of incentives available for the project. It is difficult for the City to provide assurances at this time on the timing and incentive possibilities due to commitments on other projects, specifically the new Arena at the Will Rogers Memorial Center.

 

As a result, the convention hotel project has been delayed until such time that the City is able to have sufficient information on available incentives for a developer to commit to a hotel project of this size and the timelines for the FWCC Phase III expansion and Commerce Street realignment have been identified.

 

Funding for the Arena project is scheduled for July 2017 and the financial model anticipates funding will be available to support the debt service for the expansion of the FWCC in approximately 2025. 

[johnfwd]

Re-posting this link to Bisnow (from the "Residence Inn at 8th and Houston" thread) only to reference the brief mention that a "Canopy by Hilton" is planned for "near the convention center."  No comment on the accuracy of this but, if true, whereabouts near the convention center is not stated.  But, if true, it would mean a hotel quite possibly in near proximity to the proposed FWCC 1000-room hotel.

 

https://www.bisnow.c...-headline-56439

 

Regarding the city's plans for the hotel, If the inadequacy of hotel rooms in downtown means greater marketability, you would think downtown would be a magnet for a Hilton or Sheraton to build the 1000-room hotel with private funds, without tax incentives, and in less time than the 10 years expected wait for the FWCC expansion?

[JBB]

If all of the proposals for downtown hotels pan out, does the city need to largely subsidize another massive hotel next to the convention center?

[johnfwd]

If all of the proposals for downtown hotels pan out, does the city need to largely subsidize another massive hotel next to the convention center?

I presume the city's role here in tax incentivizing or otherwise subsidizing the funding is on account of it being in conjunction with the planned expansion of the city's convention center.  Stated another way, the city probably wouldn't get involved if a Hilton or Sheraton planned a high-rise hotel elsewhere in downtown and the hotel was unrelated to a public building such as a convention center.

[Austin55]

It does seem like the pace hotels are developing that a single 1k room hotel would no longer be needed with all the smaller proposals going on. 

[elpingüino]

Star-Telegram article from Monday: Plans for second Fort Worth Convention Center hotel shelved for now

 

 

Until the city can provide more information regarding those projects, [city facilities director Kirk] Slaughter said they’ll have to delay the hotel project, likely until after 2025. The hotel can’t be built until the convention center expansion is done and the land on the east side of the facility is available.

[johnfwd]

 

Star-Telegram article from Monday: Plans for second Fort Worth Convention Center hotel shelved for now

 

 

Until the city can provide more information regarding those projects, [city facilities director Kirk] Slaughter said they’ll have to delay the hotel project, likely until after 2025. The hotel can’t be built until the convention center expansion is done and the land on the east side of the facility is available.

 

 

[JBB]

It does seem like the pace hotels are developing that a single 1k room hotel would no longer be needed with all the smaller proposals going on. 

 

I'm not necessarily saying that it won't be needed, but I would assume it could happen without the nearly $100 million in incentives given to the Omni.  A smaller incentive package for one or a few operators might not force them to wait 10 years to make new rooms in the vicinity of the convention center happen.  

 

The fact that they are looking at waiting so long to improve the convention center after the arena is no longer needed is frustrating and represents terrible planning on the part of the city (clearly a pattern for which there is never any accountability).  The changes to the convention center should have been included in the overall package to fund the arena.  Waiting until 2025 to get their ducks in a row is going to increase the cost.

[Urbndwlr]

It does seem like the pace hotels are developing that a single 1k room hotel would no longer be needed with all the smaller proposals going on. 

Apparently having five 200 room hotels is not as valuable for convention booking as a single 1000 room hotel because meeting planners place great emphasis on having very large blocks of their attendees together in a small number of hotels.   

[johnfwd]

 

It does seem like the pace hotels are developing that a single 1k room hotel would no longer be needed with all the smaller proposals going on. 

Apparently having five 200 room hotels is not as valuable for convention booking as a single 1000 room hotel because meeting planners place great emphasis on having very large blocks of their attendees together in a small number of hotels.   

 

Good point.  And I would guess that advertising a single high-rise hotel in your program registration brochure has more appeal, too.

[JBB]

Just a guess, but I would assume part of the issue is meeting planners wanting a sufficient amount of supplemental meeting and event space under the same roof as the 1000 rooms. A handful of smaller hotels are not going to include the same amount of meeting and event space as the larger hotel.

[Urbndwlr]

Yes, probably.  But from experience at various conferences, there is a very large, primary conference space plus a handful of smaller satellite meeting spaces in surrounding hotels for hosted events, break-out sessions, but they have to be very close to each other.  Depends on the conference agenda.  Fort Worth doesn't really have a contiguous piece of land Downtown that allows for a huge hotel PLUS conference space PLUS convention center without asking people to cross a street on foot.  Downtown Houston and Downtown Dallas have massive contiguous hotel to convention center blocks. IMO that's okay because we dont want superblocks Downtown.  Those two hotel + CC blocks in each Dallas and Houston really act as barriers or walls in that part of each downtown.

 

I think the Austin CC is disconnected from surrounding large convention hotels - visitors have to walk across the streets (which is good for street level energy). 

 

So perhaps in the future the Fort Worth Convention Center and any large convention/meeting hotel will orient their conference space vertically, rather than just horizontally. 

Imagine multiple sets of stairs and escalators that shuttle people from floor to floor spaces.  Could work for a large number of conferences that don't require 300,000 SF+ of contiguous, single-floor space.  How large would each floor of the future FWCC would be after Commerce gets straightened and the arena gets removed?

[RD Milhollin]

I raised this issue a while back and the most cogent objection IMO was over fire safety. Multiple and separated wells between floors containing escalators, elevators, and stairs should probably address these concerns; I would like to see a convention center hotel constructed on the same block as the new construction, above the meeting spaces. This is probably the best chance of having a significant bookend at the south end of Main Street to complement the historic Courthouse.

[Jeriat]

I'm starting to like that idea the more I hear/see it...

[John T Roberts]

The architects for the Sinclair Building conversion and the Hilton Hotel Annex have posted a video of their design for a new convention center hotel.  The proposal is a few years old because it shows the Landmark Tower, the old SBC logo on the AT&T Building, and it actually can't be built because the hotel extends over Throckmorton Street to the block directly across from the Post Office.  Pinnacle Bank Place is being built on that block, now.  Also, I had trouble seeing the video, but the hotel is definitely interesting. 

 

Go to: http://merriman-maa.com/portfolio/ and click on 3D Visualization and click the thumbnail that is a dusk shot.  It is the 4th one in the selection.  This will launch the video.

[Austin55]

Great find John. I gotta wonder how serious this proposal is? It mentions Farukh Aslam at the beginning (This is the guy behind Sinclair, Hilton Annex, and Marriot A/C proposals) so perhaps just a concept? And not in the location where the city had proposed the convention hotel (This being in the May Owen lot, the cities had been planned where the Commerce curve is currently) I'm assuming everything in this is outdated and never going to happen, just a vision. 

 

 

Edit - Here's a screenshot. I count a 41 floor tower and guess the podium is around 3-4 levels.

 

[Austin55]

A reader of Urban Fort Worth has sent me renderings of another concept for a convention hotel. Because of the delays in the building (see post #7) I wouldn't expect to see anything like this for a while, and of course the site of the renderings is now where the smaller Hampton Inn is going up, but the renderings are interesting as they give an idea of what a large convention hotel on Commerce St could look like if one happens in the future. Here is the source page for the images. 

 

This image shows the uses of each floor. It proposes 2 hotels, a Westin and a smaller Aloft, which would sit on a parking podium with retail along Commerce. Above the Westin would be several more floors of office. By my count, the total height of the building is 27 floors. 

 

A view of what the facade materiels/colors might have looked like - 

 

 

And finally, a the view of downtown from the proposed pool deck on the roof of the garage,

 

[Now in Denton]

I think it is a good idea to hold back of a second Fort Worth Convention hotel. I like for the Fort Worth Arena built first. Then do a massive overhall of the Convention center and Commerce St. I think plans are to straighten Commerce St. That I support.

 

Then redo the north and east end of the convention center. But what if they built the second hotel on the current arena site ? In other words a Convention hotel that is built into the convention center.  

[Jeriat]

A reader of Urban Fort Worth has sent me renderings of another concept for a convention hotel. Because of the delays in the building (see post #7) I wouldn't expect to see anything like this for a while, and of course the site of the renderings is now where the smaller Hampton Inn is going up, but the renderings are interesting as they give an idea of what a large convention hotel on Commerce St could look like if one happens in the future. Here is the source page for the images. 

 

This image shows the uses of each floor. It proposes 2 hotels, a Westin and a smaller Aloft, which would sit on a parking podium with retail along Commerce. Above the Westin would be several more floors of office. By my count, the total height of the building is 27 floors. 

 

A view of what the facade materiels/colors might have looked like - 

 

 

And finally, a the view of downtown from the proposed pool deck on the roof of the garage,

 

I'd like to see this built after the new arena is complete and Commerce is straightened, as well. Just have it in what would become the open surface lot directly south of where the Hampton Inn is being built. 

[Mr_Brightside526]

I agree with Jeriat^^^

Straighten Commerce out first.

[Austin55]

Here are some more renderings of the never-to-be built Farukh Aslam concept.

https://drive.google...UmtGOE1Fai1OTDQ

[renamerusk]

Enough land (room) still seems to exist today that would allow a creative design team to make a project doable.

[Dylan]

I'm not a fan of the Lancaster Avenue concept. The building is wayyy too wide for how tall it is.

 

I'd probably like the concept more if the building were half as wide.

[Austin55]

At today's Council Presentation 1,000 rooms was still proposed, expected to cost $350 million.

[george84]

For comparison, how many rooms does the Omni have?

[Austin55]

614.

[renamerusk]

At today's Council Presentation 1,000 rooms was still proposed, expected to cost $350 million.

 

  Did the presentation cite examples of the peer cities, hotel sizes, etc. used to arrive at the expected cost?

[Dylan]

At today's Council Presentation 1,000 rooms was still proposed, expected to cost $350 million.

 

 Who's proposing that? A hotel developer?

[Austin55]

At today's Council Presentation 1,000 rooms was still proposed, expected to cost $350 million.

 
 Who's proposing that? A hotel developer?

There isn't a developer it would be a public private partnership, not to dissimilar from the Omni.

[arch-image]

I agree with some of the comments previously made about how much has already been built and is in process already. While I do obviously understand the issues on keeping large groups in one continuous space with lots of meeting rooms and breakout spaces, I do have concerns that throwing a 1000 room property in the mix is going to cannibalize a lot of what has just been done . 

[John T Roberts]

Arch-image, the same comments about cannibalizing the existing hotel rooms were made when the Omni Fort Worth Hotel was built.  The bad things didn't happen to the other hotels.  I believe we are still well short of rooms in what the hotel study revealed.  If their study is correct, then the construction of 1,000 rooms should also benefit the existing hotels, and should encourage competition for the other properties to continue to make improvements and upgrades.

[renamerusk]

A-I, I understand how you can arrive at your concerns, but I agree with JTR and his explanation.

 

A convention hotel with 1,000 sleeping rooms will be a beginning to position Fort Worth among its peers and more importantly it competitively positions Fort Worth among the 6th largest cities in Texas for major conventions held in the State.

 

Our neighbor to the east has multiple hotels exceeding 1,000 sleeping rooms and it ranks among the Top 5 Cities in the nation for construction of new and renovated hotels.

 

While 1,000 sleeping rooms is probably the base from which a major national convention would require to commit to a city, the support from the other hotel within walking distance of the Convention Center will greatly increase the appeal for major conventions to meet in Downtown Fort Worth.

 

Ultimately, the likely cannibalization that we are likely to see will be some shifting of conventions held in other Texas cities as well as some of Fort Worth's peers.

 

Note: There is two citings on the list of convention center hotels that has me fuming. It is in the link added below.

 

http://www.cvent.com...19a22e32d2.aspx

[renamerusk]

Follow up question:

 

Excerpts @ FWBP - Related to the Convention Center discussion was an informal report concerning the transaction that resulted in the city selling the land which the Omni occupies at 1300 Houston St. to the company for $13.8 million - of which all but $1 million will be returned to the company in the form of an Economic Development Program grant agreement......The hotel project was originally a public-private partnership under which the city provided a number of economic development grants and an amended agreement that allowed for a series of rebates of state sales and hotel occupancy taxes. State law allows for such an agreement if the hotel is located within 1,000 feet of a convention center and the land is owned by the city.....The city’s general fund was the source of the 380 Agreement rebates that were transferred to the Omni.....Additionally, the Culture and Tourism Fund provided $8.6 Million of hotel occupancy taxes and DFW Revenue Share funds to support the garage costs related to the Omni Hotel.

 

Although the state rebates have expired, the Economic Development Program Agreement requires the city to continue making grants to Omni for the next five years based only on local ad valorem property taxes and local hotel occupancy taxes, and then for the three following years based only on local hotel occupancy taxes.

 

"The Omni Hotel, along with the previous expansion of the Fort Worth Convention Center and the numerous renovated and new hotels in the downtown Fort Worth market, has lifted Fort Worth’s competitiveness in the convention and meetings market," said Kirk Slaughter of the city's public events department.

 

Why isn't Omni considered to be a convention center hotel; shouldn't it be listed among the U.S. Convention Hotel Directory? 

 

As it now stands, Fort Worth as a convention center host city is a non-entity within the industry. Shouldn't we seek an explanation from Mr. Slaughter?

[John T Roberts]

I thought at the time when it was built, the Omni was a convention center hotel.    ?????

[renamerusk]

Me too.

[Urbndwlr]

The list doesn't seem to be comprehensive.  Notice Austin only has one hotel listed.  I don't know how many are within 1000 ft of their convention center but it is several including some really massive ones. 

[Austin55]

Hunden, who did the original study in 2014, revisited the study and the results where released in March. A 182 page, very in depth PDF is online.

 

They seem to think that the new hotels are absorbing unmet demand and that a flagship 1000 roomer is still needed.

 

 

Hotels: HSP’s hotel recommendations are consistent with the findings from 2014. Due to the small hotel package that Fort Worth offers in a

walkable and proximate radius from the FWCC, even with its current convention space sizing, it should add a second branded headquarters

hotel of 1,000 rooms near the north or northeast end of the building. In addition, an additional 400 rooms adjacent to the FWCC would be ideal,

either as an addition to an existing hotel or as a new hotel. FWCC will then be well-positioned to host larger events and two simultaneous

events.

 

Full study here - http://fortworthtexa...166a51c36e8.pdf

[arch-image]

Arch-image, the same comments about cannibalizing the existing hotel rooms were made when the Omni Fort Worth Hotel was built.  The bad things didn't happen to the other hotels.  I believe we are still well short of rooms in what the hotel study revealed.  If their study is correct, then the construction of 1,000 rooms should also benefit the existing hotels, and should encourage competition for the other properties to continue to make improvements and upgrades.

Very good point John, there would be a strong benefit brought to the table by larger and larger conventions coming to town which in turn brings more need for more rooms. As well, I keep forgetting how behind FTW has been in adding rooms for so many years.