41 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

Earlier this week the 21st MLS franchise was awarded to Orlando. Looking to expand to 24 teams by 2020, MLS could fill 3 more spots. Currently, Miami, San Antonio, Atlanta, and Minneapolis/ St. Paul are the top contenders. Should Fort Worth be in this mix?

Despite there being another franchise in the Metroplex, FC Dallas, I think there could easily be an existing fanbase for a sport. Toyota Stadium is 41 miles away from DTFW, I don't imagine there being much crossover in fanbases. 

A soccer-specific stadium would need to be built to attract a team(though many are mixed use and can serve as football and concert venues as well) probably would be looking at a cost of between 80-200k, depinding on size and features. Perhaps Amon Carter could be used aswell.



 

[renamerusk]

....MLS... Looking to expand to 24 teams by 2020, MLS could fill 3 more spots. Currently, Miami, San Antonio, Atlanta, and Minneapolis/ St. Paul are the top contenders. Should Fort Worth be in this mix?

.....I think there could easily be an existing fanbase for a sport.... I don't imagine there being much crossover in fanbases. 

A soccer-specific stadium would need to be built to attract a team(though many are mixed use and can serve as football and concert venues as well) probably would be looking at a cost of between 80-200k, depinding on size and features....

 

I would say “Yes” to being in the mix because of the large and ever increasing Hispanic population in both San Antonio and Fort Worth; and further agree with your thinking that there is an existing fan base in the Fort Worth area. 

 

I suspect that the MLS franchise in Dallas/Frisco is located relatively remote from the vast amount of this particular population in the Dallas area; and that it would and could have done better remaining in the Cotton Bowl.

 

Instead of minor league baseball in TRV, I suspect that “football (soccer)” would have excellent attendance at this site because of its centrality to the largest of its fan base.  That being said, I am not for using public funds to construct a stadium for any professional sports organization.

[Jeriat]

I'd love to have MLS here, obviously, since I did an entire thread on possible sights for Soccer Specific Stadiums here last year. 

 

But that's something we may have to wait on, because I guarantee, those last three spots are going to either of the following cities first:

 

 - Atlanta

 - Minnesota

 - San Antonio

 - Miami

 - St. Louis

 - Edmonton

 - Detroit (yes, even Detroit) 

 - San Diego (if Chivas U.S.A. doesn't move there, first) 

[johnfwd]

I truly wish Fort Worth would get this MLS franchise.  But, alas, the brilliancy of the Dallas lights has forever blinded the sports intelligentsia of our beloved country.

[Russ Graham]

well, the brightness of the Dallas lights didn't stop Frisco from getting a soccer team... Seriously though, the London metro area is only a bit bigger than the Dallas-FW-Arlington metro; and they've got 6 premier-league soccer teams: http://en.wikipedia....i/London#Sports  There's no reason DFW can't support two teams.

[JBB]

Comparing the fandom surrounding soccer in Britain to potential in the US is like comparing peas to bowling balls.  MLS is gaining popularity, but it has a long way to go.  That being said, I think there's potential to have a team in Fort Worth be a big draw.  If you can have an ownership group build up a culture surrounding the team like they've done in Seattle, anything is possible. 

[Russ Graham]

I think if there were a team in Fort Worth, both it and FC Dallas would benefit from the cross-metro rivalry.  Peas, bowling balls, you have to start somewhere. 

[hannerhan]

I wonder why Austin isn't on those lists?  Largest MSA in the country with no professional sports team. 

 

I actually think MLB should look at Austin if they ever expand or need to move a team.  No reason we shouldn't have 3 MLB teams in Texas when California has 5.  NBA makes less sense because tons of Austinites are Spurs fans, and the NFL is probably a long shot because the Longhorns have such a pull in football.  But I think Austin could be a good baseball town, and fans of all sports would likely flock to the one pro team in town.  All that to say that I think there are much better options for MLS in Texas, much less elsewhere...  Which sucks because I'd like to believe that we would do well with a team.

[Jeriat]

I wonder why Austin isn't on those lists?  Largest MSA in the country with no professional sports team. 

 

I actually think MLB should look at Austin if they ever expand or need to move a team.  No reason we shouldn't have 3 MLB teams in Texas when California has 5.  NBA makes less sense because tons of Austinites are Spurs fans, and the NFL is probably a long shot because the Longhorns have such a pull in football.  But I think Austin could be a good baseball town, and fans of all sports would likely flock to the one pro team in town.  All that to say that I think there are much better options for MLS in Texas, much less elsewhere...  Which sucks because I'd like to believe that we would do well with a team.

 

UT athletics OWN Austin. 

Besides, from my experiences and Austinites I've spoken to, the city doesn't seem to even want major pro sports teams. 

[hannerhan]

 

I wonder why Austin isn't on those lists?  Largest MSA in the country with no professional sports team. 

 

I actually think MLB should look at Austin if they ever expand or need to move a team.  No reason we shouldn't have 3 MLB teams in Texas when California has 5.  NBA makes less sense because tons of Austinites are Spurs fans, and the NFL is probably a long shot because the Longhorns have such a pull in football.  But I think Austin could be a good baseball town, and fans of all sports would likely flock to the one pro team in town.  All that to say that I think there are much better options for MLS in Texas, much less elsewhere...  Which sucks because I'd like to believe that we would do well with a team.

 

UT athletics OWN Austin. 

Besides, from my experiences and Austinites I've spoken to, the city doesn't seem to even want major pro sports teams. 

 

 

There probably is an anti-pro sports mentality at some level, but there are enough transplants in Austin nowadays that I think the average person down there would love the idea of a pro team.  The Austin MSA has doubled in population over the past 20 years, so the potential money involved assures us that it's going to happen...just a matter of when.

[cjyoung]

I wonder why Austin isn't on those lists?  Largest MSA in the country with no professional sports team. 

 

Well, technically it's not. Riverside-San Bernadino-Ontario MSA is 2.5x the size of Austin-Round Rock. 

[gdvanc]

Technically true, CJ, but from the standpoint of a league trying to place teams they're considered to be served by the LA teams in that adjacent MSA. There's enough population to potentially support more teams, but the Austin market is altogether untapped. There's no adjacent MSA there.

 

But Austin is also a great example of how a city/region can market itself successfully without a pro sports franchise. They've had no trouble attracting the companies and demographics many cities are vying for. Getting a team now might be a nice addition, but it won't suddenly make them more competitive.

[Austin55]

Austin looks to be getting a team,

 

https://www.mlssocce...-deal-agreement

[Jeriat]

A lot can change in 5 years:

 

UT athletics OWN Austin. 

Besides, from my experiences and Austinites I've spoken to, the city doesn't seem to even want major pro sports teams

 

 

 

Interesting choice in color scheme... 

 

 

 

 

 

- Cincinnati next year
- Nashville & Miami the year after
- Austin and ________ in 2021.

[Russ Graham]

Probably St. Louis will get the last MLS franchise to bring the league to 28 teams. If they dont get it there are about 8 more cities in various stages of contention... Most of the likely places for MLS teams have at least a functioning 2nd division (USL) team, which would be a good league to target for Ft Worth. FC Dallas is launching a third division (USL League 1) team called North Texas FC next year, supposedly they will be playing all over the metroplex, Ft Worth could build them a nice permanent home. Also th Vaqueros play in a fourth division league (NPSL) that is trying to grow into a 3rd division league called NPSL Pro, so there is a chance that club could see some growth too.

[renamerusk]

A MLS franchise for Fort Worth is what we should aspire for.

 

Soccer fans are different from fans of MLB, NFL, NBA or NHL in that they are more "tribal" than they are "regional"; that is to say that a base of fans in Fort Worth would not cross over to a city that is not their "hometown".

 

It has been suggested that FCDallas' farm system should include Fort Worth. I hope not.  I don't know for sure about FCDallas' fan base, but playing in Frisco (Tollroad) after initially playing in the Cotton Bowl, the team ceded much of Dallas and now plays at a formidable distance from Dallas Central (West/South/East) where the some of most ardent and deepest pool of fans live.  FCDallas is certainly beyond the means both in distance and affordability among most of Fort Worth's large Hispanic population as well as Fort Worth in general.

 

Where to go from there:  Redevelop Ridgmar Mall into a Texas Live West that includes family entertainment and a MLS stadium.  Also, the outlay for infrastructure (MLS stadium) is far less in cost than the stadiums and arenas that are being built for the teams of the four major leagues.

 

I think the City would do well to float some inducements to a developer who could bring about an Arlington-like entertainment complex in West Fort Worth.

 

Below is what the City of Allen (Texas) is proposing and something for which Fort Worth could look to do -

 

http://www.fortworth...3e1d97c79f.html

[Jeriat]

A MLS franchise for Fort Worth is what we should aspire for.

 

Soccer fans are different from fans of MLB, NFL, NBA or NHL in that they are more "tribal" than they are "regional"; that is to say that a base of fans in Fort Worth would not cross over to a city that is not their "hometown".

 

It has been suggested that FCDallas' farm system should include Fort Worth. I hope not.  I don't know for sure about FCDallas' fan base, but playing in Frisco (Tollroad) after initially playing in the Cotton Bowl, the team ceded much of Dallas and now plays at a formidable distance from Dallas Central (West/South/East) where the some of most ardent and deepest pool of fans live.  FCDallas is certainly beyond the means both in distance and affordability among most of Fort Worth's large Hispanic population as well as Fort Worth in general.

 

Where to go from there:  Redevelop Ridgmar Mall into a Texas Live West that includes family entertainment and a MLS stadium.  Also, the outlay for infrastructure (MLS stadium) is far less in cost than the stadiums and arenas that are being built for the teams of the four major leagues.

 

I think the City would do well to float some inducements to a developer who could bring about an Arlington-like entertainment complex in West Fort Worth.

 

Below is what the City of Allen (Texas) is proposing and something for which Fort Worth could look to do -

 

http://www.fortworth...3e1d97c79f.html

 

The only way we get an MLS team is if FC Dallas folds or decides to move. 

The league is really focused on more markets now that it's getting bigger and better managed. 

So more than likely, either the Vaqueros grow to the point of becoming a top USL team or someone decided to start up an expansion USL franchise on their own.

[rriojas71]

Where to go from there:  Redevelop Ridgmar Mall into a Texas Live West that includes family entertainment and a MLS stadium.  Also, the outlay for infrastructure (MLS stadium) is far less in cost than the stadiums and arenas that are being built for the teams of the four major leagues.

I dont like the idea of a stadium at Ridgmar. It needs to be closer to downtown and if at all possible maybe even downtown, closer to Texrail, TRE and public transit. Maybe something to the east of the ITC in that dead area of downtown.

[renamerusk]

I disagree with the need for a stadium to be downtown.

 

First of all, where is there sufficient land for a stadium. The use of the land adjacent to ITC is fantasy land.  These owners are not being moved to do anything with the land. 

 

Most of the fans will be driving to and from a stadium; not taking public transit, so the idea that TexRail, TRE and public transit should be essential is difficult to support.

 

Ridgmar has ample land, parking and access from all of the major highways and roads in Fort Worth.  It is dire need of redevelopment and should be an easy concept to get behind.

[rriojas71]

 
First of all, where is there sufficient land for a stadium. The use of the land adjacent to ITC is fantasy land.  These owners are not being moved to do anything with the land. 
 
Most of the fans will be driving to and from a stadium; not taking public transit, so the idea that TexRail, TRE and public transit should be essential is difficult to support.

The whole talk of FW getting an MLS team is fantasy land so if it is a fantasy then we can put forth fantasy scenarios. I agree that Ridgmar has ample land and parking and could be a good choice if this was a reality. I also think there is plenty of unused land to the east of the train tracks and west of I-35 along 8th st. I’ve seen football and baseball stadiums built on smaller footprints and MLS stadiums are typically smaller than both of those.

Having the TRE or TEXRail is an option not a mandatory condition and in fantasy land it would work.

[renamerusk]

The whole talk of FW getting an MLS team is fantasy land so if it is a fantasy then we can put forth fantasy scenarios.....

 

Two questions come to mind right off the bat:

 

Are you a season ticket holder of the nearest MLS team to Fort Worth; and if so, how often do you make the one-way trip of 47miles to attend a game there?

 

Do you know when it was that the railroads abandoned the train yards/property that you propose to use for a stadium?

[RD Milhollin]

Harmon Park? Gateway Park?

[renamerusk]

Sorry, but Ridgmar is the ideal location for a soccer stadium.  The new arena is not located downtown, so there is precedent to have a field outside of Downtown.

 

Demolish the Dillard's Clearance Center and put in its place a field to seat 20,000 fans.  The field would connect to the existing entertainment venues and residential tower at the south end of the complex.  Presto, you have a Fort Worth Live!

 

https://www.google.c...m/data=!3m1!1e3

[Dylan]

The problem with the Ridgmar Mall site: it's far away from the bulk of Tarrant County's population.

 

Transit accessibility aside, something this important needs to be centrally located to be convenient for a large swath of population.

 

This is the reason I don't like the FC Dallas (Frisco) location. It's far away from the center of Dallas.

[renamerusk]

It is inside of the Loop; and more importantly, it is a golden opportunity to change the fate of a large and struggling mall areain the core of the city to the better.  The Fort Worth Sports Authority should use its TIF powers to make this happen. 

 

FC Fort Worth Strikers @ Lockheed Stadium

[txbornviking]

If we're floating pipe dreams around the Ridgmar site... in addition to it currently being a Trinity Metro transfer hub it could in theory be connect via regional rail with an extension from downtown, parallel Vickery and the UP railyard then and up the old abandoned Bomber Heights Spur.

[renamerusk]

If we're floating pipe dreams around the Ridgmar site... in addition to it currently being a Trinity Metro transfer hub it could in theory be connect via regional rail with an extension from downtown, parallel Vickery and the UP railyard then and up the old abandoned Bomber Heights Spur.

 

Unless the City is content with allowing the Ridgmar Complex's (RC) future to remain uncertain,  I disagree with any notion and so should the City that developing RC into a entertainment/sport complex is a pipe dream or a fantasy.

 

Already, there is an aquarium, cinema and food courts.  Using the Fort Worth Sports Authority to construct a soccer stadium which could be use for high school, college and professional events can bring out of town visitors to the City and also provide a sporting venue for the residents of Fort Worth/Parker County. 

 

So what if FCDallas has an issue with Fort Worth seeking a MLS team.  FCDallas would have to defend against a "Restraint of Trade" suit that I think it could not win. 

 

All that aside, RC is Fort Worth's problem and the City should do something to make it productive to the local economy going forward.

[Austin55]

Austin officially has an MLS team. Fort Worth is now the largest city in the U.S. to not have their name on a major league team.

 

El Paso is the next largest, 22nd in the country with ~690,000. El Paso doesn't have any teams in the metro.

[Russ Graham]

In lower-division soccer news, there's a Fort Worth-based team called Inocentes FC that is playing in a national semifinal tomorrow.

 

https://www.upslsocc...vs-inocentes-fc

 

UPSL is a fifth-division national league that is growing fast.  At last count they had "over 300" clubs and are shooting for 400 for the Spring 2019 season.  There are three FW based clubs in the league: Inocentes, who play their home games at Polytech High School, and two new clubs for the 2019 season, FC Sharp Keys, who will play at Northside HS, and Azul City FC, who will be based at Gateway Park.  Unlike the NPSL which is the home of the Vaqueros, the UPSL plays Spring and Fall seasons with a national champion for each season.  Interestingly the UPSL is implementing promotion / relegation within regional conferences, which will allow successful teams to rise to the top over time.

[johnfwd]

I hope Fort Worth becomes host to a major-league soccer team, which can compete with Austin.  Is Dickie's Arena large enough to house a soccer game?

[JBB]

No. MLS field size is at minimum 110 yards x 70 yards. Just looking at a Google Earth view of the arena under construction, the floor size is no bigger than 100 x 30 yards. There's no shoehorn in the world that can make that work.

[renamerusk]

I hope Fort Worth becomes host to a major-league soccer team, which can compete with Austin.  Is Dickie's Arena large enough to house a soccer game?

 

  I'm only coming to this from an impression that I have about soccer; and that impression is that soccer's appeal is less regional and more grassroot.  The MLS appears to be modeled after the regional appeal of Football, Baseball, Hockey and Basketball where one team is designated to serve an entire metropolitan area; that model does not begin to serve the fandom for soccer.

 

 A professional soccer league that had a team in Dallas Proper, Fort Worth, as well as cities like El Paso and San Antonio would thrive upon the avid hometown support that would be stirred by these teams along with teams in OKC, Tulsa, etc.

 

Soccer stadiums can be a great way to reuse large antiquated shopping centers. If the owners of these shopping malls would create a soccer league of their own to revitalize the mall and add other retail and entertainment venues (Texas Live!), it could be a shrewd business model.

[Russ Graham]

Inocentes FC is in the UPSL final, heres a preview of the match. They face long odds against a California team that is semi pro. A David vs Goliath story. These guys have had bake sales to fund their travel and are playing for a league championship in their second year in the league. https://www.protagon...ionship-preview

[renamerusk]

RG, your post is confirmation that support for soccer is as local as the proverbial neighborhood.

 

A soccer stadium @ Ridgmar Mall to host the grassroot teams and out of town teams would look like a strong candidate for both: 

g) Catalytic Development Project:  $5.0 Million 

h) Transit Oriented Development:  $5.0 Million

 

of the Economic Development Plan.  I would think it is a much stronger candidate than say a stadium for the Fort Worth Cats.

[Jeriat]

I hope Fort Worth becomes host to a major-league soccer team, which can compete with Austin.  Is Dickie's Arena large enough to house a soccer game?

 

INDOOR soccer, maybe.

Now that Austin has a team, there's no way we get into MLS... unless FC Dallas folds or something.

[renamerusk]

 

I hope Fort Worth becomes host to a major-league soccer team, which can compete with Austin....

 

Now that Austin has a team, there's no way we get into MLS... unless FC Dallas folds or something.

 

 

 I think limiting the potential of soccer in the U.S. plays into the hands of the MLS monopolistic intentions.

 

 I would like to believe that Fort Worth will not be swayed by the MLS determination to become a soccer cartel; but instead will make its determination about the economic development of a professional soccer team best on what is best for itself.

 

As the demographics of the country begin to see American Football as too violent, soccer has grown in popularity.  Soccer seems particularly well positioned for having less equipment and uniform costs; and this makes it more receptive cost to benefit to form a team. Cities should take advantage of the relative bargain of building and forming a local team. There are a vast amount of communities who could form teams.  This is demonstrated for example  by the amount of leagues and teams played in Europe or United Kingdom:

 

https://www.google.c...1hrtp;st;fp;1;;

 

https://www.google.c...iw=1192&bih=654

[renamerusk]

I drove in from Weatherford the other day and as I got closer to Ridgmar I was imagining the idea someone mentioned before of building a soccer stadium, for a fantasy MLS franchise at the location, and I think something like that would probably inject some life into the area.  You keep the aquarium the Theatre some retail and then also build a couple of pancake plexes and you may have something.  I like the setting of it being on the backside of the hilly area that leads up to Ridgmar.

 

 

A MLS franchise for Fort Worth is what we should aspire for.

 

Soccer fans are different from fans of MLB, NFL, NBA or NHL in that they are more "tribal" than they are "regional"; that is to say that a base of fans in Fort Worth would not cross over to a city that is not their "hometown".

 

It has been suggested that FCDallas' farm system should include Fort Worth. I hope not.  I don't know for sure about FCDallas' fan base, but playing in Frisco (Tollroad) after initially playing in the Cotton Bowl, the team ceded much of Dallas and now plays at a formidable distance from Dallas Central (West/South/East) where the some of most ardent and deepest pool of fans live.  FCDallas is certainly beyond the means both in distance and affordability among most of Fort Worth's large Hispanic population as well as Fort Worth in general.

 

Where to go from there:  Redevelop Ridgmar Mall into a Texas Live West that includes family entertainment and a MLS stadium.  Also, the outlay for infrastructure (MLS stadium) is far less in cost than the stadiums and arenas that are being built for the teams of the four major leagues.

 

I think the City would do well to float some inducements to a developer who could bring about an Arlington-like entertainment complex in West Fort Worth.

 

Below is what the City of Allen (Texas) is proposing and something for which Fort Worth could look to do -

 

http://www.fortworth...3e1d97c79f.html

 

It was you and I..check it out from this point forward.

[Dylan]

Welcome back, renamerusk. Where have you been?

[tamtagon]

It is nice to hear from Renamerusk again.

 

I would rather see the next futbol expansion in North Texas and the rest of the Southwest run through Liga MX.

[renamerusk]

 

Maybe they could use the facility to attract an arena football league! 

 

 

No to arena football.  Fort Worth is richly saturated with football (by that NFL team, TCU and strong prep school teams). 

 

I agree with Tamtagon and see the potential of creating a new vibrant regional soccer league made up of cities in SW USA (FW, San Antonio, El Paso, Laredo, Albuquerque, Tucson) and Northern Mexico (Monterey, Mazatlan, Durango, Torreon, Chihuahua, Hermosillo). Each of cities, twelve in total, has a population of 500k-1m or greater. The US cities have hefty Latino populations and the Mexican cities speak for themselves.

It is hard to overlook the very large number of young latinos who live in FW that play soccer every weekend in our parks.  The Fort Worth Sports Authority might want to take a look at this; and I really don't care if FWSA was steal my idea.

[Jeriat]

 

 

Maybe they could use the facility to attract an arena football league! 

 

 

No to arena football.  Fort Worth is richly saturated with football (by that NFL team, TCU and strong prep school teams). 

 

 

Not really.

I don't think arena football would work simply because there's just no stable league anymore. 

[Jeriat]

I'd love to have MLS here, obviously, since I did an entire thread on possible sights for Soccer Specific Stadiums here last year. 

 

But that's something we may have to wait on, because I guarantee, those last three spots are going to either of the following cities first:

 

 - Atlanta

 - Minnesota

 - San Antonio

 - Miami

 - St. Louis

 - Edmonton

 - Detroit (yes, even Detroit) 

 - San Diego (if Chivas U.S.A. doesn't move there, first) 

 
A little over 8 years later, there are now 28 clubs in MLS and let me mark off the ones that happened:
 

 - Atlanta

 - Minnesota

 - San Antonio Austin

 - Miami

 - St. Louis

 - Edmonton

 - Detroit (yes, even Detroit) 

 - San Diego (if Chivas U.S.A. doesn't move there, first)