126 replies to this topic

[Dylan]

The countdown was a half minute early and the fireworks show was absolutely pathetic.

 

CBS 11's broadcast was disappointing as well. I will be watching WFAA (Big D NYE) next year instead of the disappointment I watched tonight.

[renamerusk]

The countdown was a half minute early and the fireworks show was absolutely pathetic.

 

CBS 11's broadcast was disappointing as well. I will be watching WFAA (Big D NYE) next year instead of the disappointment I watched tonight.

 

 I also noticed that the countdown was off. 

 

Fireworks should only be done during Independence Day when the atmosphere is usually a lot better than it is in the winter.  More balloons, confetti, bells, laser lights would be ideal.

 

This was Sundance's first effort following their 2014 snap attempt.  Big D NYE and WFAA have been doing this a bit longer.

 

Channel 11 will be better the next time around from what it learns from this experience.  All that it will take is for Sundance to erect a temporary platform in the way that ESPNdoes to broadcast their events. Ideally, Sundance will have a permanent platform atop the Commerce Building someday.

 

I will always watch the Fort Worth event, and I predict that you will too.

[JBB]

From the pics I've seen, it looked like a pretty big crowd, especially given the weather. Like rename said, Big D NYE has been around for awhile and you can add to that the fact that it has massive corporate sponsorship and it is produced by a TV station with the at-home audience being catered to as much as the in-person audience. I didn't watch the CBS 11 coverage (or WFAA for that matter), but from what I gather, it was happenstance coverage of an event catering to the crowd in the plaza. Give everyone some time and I'm sure things will improve.

Is the countdown being off all that big of a deal? As long as everyone knows when it's happening, you can celebrate all the same.

[JBB]

Very nice shot from Brian Luenser's Facebook page. I'm not sure that there weren't as many people in Sundance as there was in Victory. That crowd looked a little lighter than usual from aerial shots.

[Dylan]

Dallas was able to put on a decent fireworks show, so I don't see why we can't. Balloons and confetti might be nice as well, though I don't know how well those would mix with fireworks.

 

As for CBS 11, I sure hope they improve. They had an interview with what's his name from that NBC singing show that took place indoors instead of outside in front of the energetic crowd. The big red couch blocked a potentially good view of the crowd behind the anchors. CBS 11 cut over to Dallas and TopGolf (Allen) more than once in the short amount of time they were on air. I found many of the camera angles (including of the fireworks) to be awkward, though I did find the overhead shot of the crowd to be nice. They should bring it back next year to show at random before the countdown, but find a different angle for the fireworks.

 

EDIT: The above picture would make for a good camera shot of the fireworks next year.

[Dylan]

Comparison of Fort Worth and Dallas fireworks:

 

 

 

EDIT: First video was by Brian; second video was by a random person in attendance.

[Austin55]

I'll tell you what though, Panther Island's 4th fireworks was the most amazing show I've ever seen. Half an hour long, a huge variation, some cool things I'd never seen, it was great.

I do agree the Sundance show could be a bit longer and bigger, but perhaps some of that is caused by being in the central city, there's debris and things to worry about falling.

 

My dad also commented about the CBS coverage being terrible, he watched at home. 

 

Unfortunately, I didn't realize my camera was out of focus. So my shots came out pretty poor. 

 

 

I had sent Sundance an email asking if I could shoot from the Commerce Building roof (or any other one nearby really), but was told no. 

[cjyoung]

I'm sure it will get better. Belo = Dallas, so they have a vested interest in hyping up Dallas.

 

I was in Manhattan and Downtown Brooklyn and there were fireworks there too. Too many people and most of my favorite restaurants outside of Times Square were closed by 9 PM, so I ended up eating in downtown Brooklyn, which is great in it's own right.

[Dylan]

BIG D NYE at Victory Park is cancelled!

 

http://www.guidelive...e-not-happening

 

I will always watch the Fort Worth event, and I predict that you will too.

 

Your prediction may be right.

[Austin55]

Was quite surprised by this to. Sounds like a good chance for the FW event to cash in and do something that will bring people back even Dallas brings something back for NYE2017.

[JBB]

So, Victory Park will look on that evening the same way it looks the vast majority of the time: dead.

[Dylan]

I doubt that. Two or three people who didn't get the memo will probably show up and wonder where everyone else is.

[renamerusk]

.... I didn't watch the CBS 11 coverage (or WFAA for that matter), but from what I gather, it was happenstance coverage of an event catering to the crowd in the plaza....

 

 

.....As for CBS 11, I sure hope they improve....

 

A gift like this does not come along frequently; so this is a rare time for both Sundance and CBS11 to seize the opportunity and get a foothold as a top destination for future New Year's Eve celebrations.

[BlueMound]

KTVT/Channel 11 to broadcast New Year’s Eve party in Sundance
Fort Worth now only locally produced New Year’s Eve special
http://www.star-tele...le51956500.html

[johnfwd]

I hope this becomes a local televised tradition.

[Dylan]

I'll give CBS 11 and Sundance Square another chance this year.

[Dylan]

Sundance Square: The countdown was about 10 seconds behind (maybe less taking into account TV delay), but at least 2016 was already here when the countdown was over. Last New Year's Eve, there was still about 30 seconds of 2014 remaining after the countdown had ended. They kept the Christmas tree again, which I'm sure blocked the view of even more people this year.

 

Can't comment on Sundance Square's fireworks, as I went outside to watch fireworks from my neighborhood shortly after the countdown was over.

 

CBS 11: Unfortunately, they kept the giant red couch that blocked out the crowd. However, they showed more fun shots of the energetic crowd this time.

[JBB]

Is the countdown being off all that big of a deal? As long as everyone knows when it's happening, you can celebrate all the same.

I still wonder if you're just fishing for something to dislike about it. Who give a $#?! if the countdown is off? I guarantee no one in the plaza did.

I flipped between CBS 11 and the national shows. CBS 11 has the same problem as WFAA: too much talking and not enough entertainment. I get that the local acts that play these events aren't as big a draw as the ones that play the big national events, but I would rather hear Professor D play "September" than hear about what's happening at Main Event in Frisco.

I didn't watch last year's, so I have nothing to compare it to. Sounds like it was an improvement. I had some friends that went to the event and said they had a blast.

[renamerusk]

I do believe that the christmas tree should have been removed before New Year's Eve.

 

The War on Christmas is a myth if you take in account that Christmas begins unofficially on the first day following Halloween; consumes Thanksgiving Day in its path; and does not end until the second day of the new year. Seems like Christmas is winning this time slot.

[JBB]

Saying there's a war on Christmas in this country is akin to saying there's a war on cowboy culture in Fort Worth.

[Dylan]

To be clear, I do not have a problem with Christmas trees. I'm just saying it probably blocked the view of a bunch of people in attendance.

 

As for the countdown, I do have a problem with it being off. But, as I said in my previous post, 10 seconds late is better than 30 seconds early.

 

Last year, people were celebrating 2015 in the year 2014. This year, people were celebrating 2016 in the year 2016.

[johnfwd]

If there another spot in the plaza to place the Christmas tree so that it doesn't block the view of the New Year's Eve countdown?

[renamerusk]

Removing it from the plaza during the week between Christmas and New Year's Eve would be the best of all solutions.

 

Sundance Square wanted the crowd to be the same or slightly larger than last year, but this event is growing and will continue to grow over time.  I think it is reasonable to imagine New Year's Eve in the future to spillover to include Main Street, 1st - 3rd.

[JBB]

As nice as it would be, I would assume that taking it down during a holiday week would be a challenge given that Sundance and their vendors are going to likely have minimum staffing at that time. They would be better off focusing on getting their watches synchronized so that PeopleAreStrange doesn't stroke out before he's old enough to buy a beer.

[renamerusk]

As nice as it would be, I would assume that taking it down during a holiday week would be a challenge given that Sundance and their vendors are going to likely have minimum staffing at that time.

 

Is staffing really an issue when the stage and other props were put in place for live music and telecasting?  ESPN can deconstruct its broadcasting set in under a week.

 

According to Sundance Square in a FWST 12/28/15 story, [post#14], they are perfectly satisfied with a crowd the fraction of the 50,000 or so that gather in Victory Plaza/Dallas.  So the tree remained as a form of crowd control.

[JBB]

I would assume that the same contractors that set the stage or build the ESPN set aren't the same ones that take care of the tree. You can staff anything you want for the right price. Someone determined that it wasn't inconvenient enough to leave it as opposed to spending the money to take it down during a holiday week.

[John T Roberts]

Wouldn't removing the tree before New Years Day be messing with tradition?  I have always been accustomed to public trees staying up until the day after New Years.  Also, a lot of out of town guests might be viewing the tree on the days after Christmas.

[renamerusk]

Wouldn't removing the tree before New Years Day be messing with tradition?  I have always been accustomed to public trees staying up until the day after New Years.  Also, a lot of out of town guests might be viewing the tree on the days after Christmas.

 

Sundance Square and Downtown Fort Worth, Inc. seem to not value tradition as much anymore - think about the decision to change the Annual Parade of Lights that had always being held the Friday after Thanksgiving Day or for the decision to stand up the tree a week earlier than in past years. 

 

Early tree lighting and early parade - http://www.star-tele...le45095112.html

 

New Year's Eve Celebration is a long time tradition for many cities, and is now finally becoming a tradition in Fort Worth. If you have seen one public tree, you have likely seen all there is to them. 

 

It can be equally argued that a lot of out of town guests for the local bowl games, as well as many locals, would have been able to enjoy themselves and the live entertainment more had the tree been removed.

[John T Roberts]

I forgot all about the early tree lighting and parade dates.  I will agree with you that tradition has already been broken.

[johnfwd]

Tradition is more often than not a "bottom-up" or grassroots sort of thing, which I believe is characteristic of neither Sundance Square nor Downtown Fort Worth, Inc. While I admire Sundance Square and Downtown Fort Worth, Inc. as organizations efficient at regulating their environment, they are not likely to instill a sense of tradition.

 

Having said that, our culture (apart from corporations or other institutions) long ago embraced all the trappings of festivity exhibited between Thanksgiving and New Year's Day, and that includes the Christmas tree, lights, and Santa Claus.  For New York and other major cities in the U.S. the towering tree is a downtown holiday symbol that's part of our culture.   If anyone knows of a city that takes down its downtown tree before New Year's Eve, please so inform me.  If the downtown Fort Worth tree is obstructing the NYE celebration, maybe they should move the countdown clock to a more advantageous spot.

[JBB]

How many people are we really talking about standing in the area that was obstructed by the countdown? Has anyone heard of anyone that was actually there complaining about it?

[renamerusk]

How many people are we really talking about standing in the area that was obstructed by the countdown? Has anyone heard of anyone that was actually there complaining about it?

 

Well, if you are promoting the idea that this christmas tree should not pose reasonable concerns, then maybe these two instances can be somewhat persuasive:

 

Obstructive view principle - http://www.nytix.com...artialview.html

 

Safety - http://www.stevespan...ee-safety-tips/

[gdvanc]

Leave the tree; it's part of the holiday atmosphere.

 

Have the main countdown device and a few secondary devices (each, perhaps, with its own charm). Or design a countdown tree-topper that displays in multiple directions. Or have some teenager write an app that synchronizes your countdown clock with any of several sources for accurate time so anyone with a phone or reliable watch can countdown with you without having to see your countdown device. Being a few seconds off doesn't bother me except for the feeling that it can't be an overwhelmingly difficult technical challenge.

[gdvanc]

@renamerusk, there are certainly issues but they are manageable.

 

The view issue can be managed by giving people who can't see the stage or the countdown clock something else interesting to view or do. Like a big video wall of the stage.

 

The fire risk is well-known but manageable. I'm sure the FWFD already has some sort of requirements about that. As the article in your link says: "As long as the tree is able to absorb and transpire water, it is reasonably fire-resistant." And "Keeping the tree away from heat sources ... will help to preserve freshness and lessen fire danger."

 

These are not trivial issues to be ignored, but they can be addressed.

[renamerusk]

@renamerusk, there are certainly issues but they are manageable.

 

These are not trivial issues to be ignored, but they can be addressed.

 

Early on in my professional life, a supervisor gave me some valuable advice by saying this to me: "K.I.S.S. - keep it simple stupid"

 

I have found that that advice works for me to this day.  My 97 y/o mother-in-law, who lives alone, uses a roller in her apartment.  We removed pieces of her furniture that obstructive her mobility so that  now she can navigate her way throughout her apartment with ease.

 

While atmosphere and traditions are wonderful, one need only ask Texas A&M what was learned from its the tragic bonfire experience.  Sundance Square could simply eliminate the obstacle and prevent a fire hazard in one swoop by removing the tree in a timely manner. 

[JBB]

If the tree is such a massive fire hazard on NYE, then it's probably a fire hazard the rest of the time as well. At some point, couldn't you concede that there's a few people working for Sundance Square and their vendors that knows what they're doing when it comes to the safety of the tree?

And the Broadway show obstructed view point is incredibly apples to oranges. One is a $100 plus a ticket event where the only thing happening is on the stage and everyone is sitting in an assigned seat. The other is a free, general admission, standing room only event where the atmosphere is as much a part of the fun as the entertainment on the stage. If you want to see the stage, move 15 feet to your left or right.

[renamerusk]

(1) If the tree is such a massive fire hazard on NYE, then it's probably a fire hazard the rest of the time as well.
(2) If you want to see the stage, move 15 feet to your left or right.

 

(1)  Of course, I'm not an authority on tree fires, but my understanding is that once a tree is severed from its roots, the tree is on death watch; at least that is what I have observed.with brush and the fire hazard it presents lying await for collection.  By NYE, a tree cut down as early as late October is a tree on irreversible life support by NYE.

 

(2) And of course, the mannerly thing to do is to shove others out of the way for your own pleasure.

 

I'm not against the tree, its just that its time has come and gone by Christmas Day.  New Years Eve is about  new year; and it should be remembered that there will be a christmas season in 2016 beginning  around November 1, 2016.

[JBB]

The article you posted was about household trees. If keeping trees that are dozens of feet tall is so inherently dangerous, I doubt very seriously it would be such a common practice. I don't disagree that removing the tree isn't a possibility, but the safety argument is grasping for straws.

Of course, I'm not condoning shoving someone out of the way. But I've been to a few mass crowd events in my lifetime. They have a fluidity about them. People make room for each other. And I still think this is a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist. I've yet to hear of anyone ticked off because they couldn't see something in the plaza.

[Austin55]

I would like to see fireworks shot form the roof of the Commerce Building as well. Right now they just come off the Westbrook, but I think having them come from both sides of the plaza would be a neat addition and visible for everyone. The tree wouldn't obstruct the whole show then. 

[Dylan]

That sounds like a really good idea.

[renamerusk]

This is pure speculation on my part, but I would venture that more people visited the square for NYE than for the christmas tree lighting. 

 

My take is that the NYE has caught Sundance Square(SSQ) a bit off guard.  The growth of NYE, in just three years, is probably second only to the one time evening of "Parades of Light" for crowds in the square. I predict that next NYE, the crowd will be the largest yet.

 

There is an understandable hesitancy by SSQ to want to manage a perceivable rowdy crowd of celebrants who may be drinking to excess, especially as SSQ seems intent on maintaining a "family oriented" atmosphere. SSQ is a control advocate [ no bikes, skateboards, fountain play, operation hours, etc.]

 

Venues, such as American Airlines Center and Bass Hall, are able to construct and deconstruct for multiple events with proficiency. Planning is what it takes.  SSQ touts itself as the public's gathering place. We all love SSQ, but it ought to be flexible enough to handle the needs of public events that range from family to adult events.

 

BTW, the christmas tree was removed by by Tuesday, 1/5/16 which proves to me that SSQ could have removed the tree if there was not a more subjective agenda.

[JBB]

SSQ touts itself as the public's gathering place. We all love SSQ, but it ought to be flexible enough to handle the needs of public events that range from family to adult events.

What's the evidence that it isn't?

[renamerusk]

 

SSQ touts itself as the public's gathering place. We all love SSQ, but it ought to be flexible enough to handle the needs of public events that range from family to adult events.

What's the evidence that it isn't?

 

Not exactly sure what evidence you are wanting, but one may draw some evidentiary conclusions for both in this interview reported by the FWST on 12/28/15

 

FWST - In 2013, the year that the downtown Fort Worth plaza was opened, about 6,000 people turned out on New Year’s Eve. Last year’s Sundance Square crowd was closer to 8,000....It’s hard to estimate how many more might show up this year. But Tracey Gilmour, director of marketing at Sundance Square, doesn’t expect it to become a sea of humanity like it did at Big D NYE....“We’re kind of hoping to keep the numbers where they already are,” Gilmour says, “because I’m not sure how many more people the plaza can realistically hold. All of our restaurants and entertainment venues are pretty much sold out....“When we created this event, we weren’t trying to be a big New Year’s Eve celebration unto itself. We prefer to think of it as just a nice finale to the evening.”...But what’s the saying? If you build it, they will come.

 

Lets just say that SSQ is much more at ease with a  relatively small, controllable adult crowd than with a large family oriented crowd; and certainly would not want NYE to get much larger. 

 

The problem was, is that traffic was backed up along 280 to enter Downtown presumably from Arlington and maybe Dallas; not to mentioned the fans attending the NYE Cotton Bowl game. Evidently, I am alone in my opinion that SSQ planned for crowd that would not overflow beyond and behind the tree, though it is beyond my comprehension how, given the cancellation of NYE BigD, the added visitors attending AT&T Stadium and the local base, that SSQ could have hoped otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Read more here: http://www.star-tele...l#storylink=cpy

[JBB]

I see nothing in there saying that they didn't plan for crowds to be behind the tree. And even if they didn't, what evidence is there that people behind the tree had an issue? Once again, solution without a problem. Who was upset about the tree being there?

[renamerusk]

#1 - As nice as it would be, I would assume that taking it down during a holiday week would be a challenge given that Sundance and their vendors are going to likely have minimum staffing at that time.

 

 

#2 - How many people are we really talking about standing in the area that was obstructed by the countdown? Has anyone heard of anyone that was actually there complaining about it?

 

#1 - Now I remember, the week of December 28 - 31 was the time period when almost every store, businesses, government offices were either still closed or working at reduce staffing for Christmas.  Those who had to work were given extra pay.

 

#2 - The philosophical question - "Did they or did they not complain because I did not hear them complain":

 

http://www.debate.or...it-make-a-sound

[JBB]

The joke in your first point is flying over my head. Sorry, maybe I'm slow on the uptake.

So I have no proof they didn't complain and you have no proof they did, right? Classic standoff.

[gdvanc]

If someone wants SSQ to remove the tree because they think it's a problem, it's up to that person to demonstrate there's a problem. To suggest it should be moved unless someone else can prove there isn't a problem doesn't sound at all sensible to me.

 

The fact that the event was more successful than anticipated diminishes the argument that people aren't happy with the event. The tree can block your view of the stage. Sure. No one is forced to stand behind the tree, though. (No, I can't prove it, but I'm pretty confident about that one.) This is a celebratory social event that is more than a concert and a countdown. In my experience with such events, people that can see the band aren't all locked into that; it's just part of the atmosphere. They are eating and drinking and laughing with friends, family and strangers. And when thousands of people are counting down together, you don't have to see the clock to keep up.

[Dylan]

To add to my previous post, having the Christmas tree stay for NYE may not be a problem if fireworks were shot from both buildings.

 

However, Sundance (apparently) doesn't want to spend a lot of money on fireworks based on their short, three-minute shows.

[renamerusk]

To add to my previous post, having the Christmas tree stay for NYE may not be a problem if fireworks were shot from both buildings.

 

However, Sundance (apparently) doesn't want to spend a lot of money on fireworks based on their short, three-minute shows.

 

 The combination of a lot of fireworks with embers and a 45 day old, drying tree could be a problem, don't you think?

[JBB]

If the tree was truly a fire hazard, it wouldn't be there.