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#51 renamerusk

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:30 AM

Why is a group lobbying the City of Fort Worth calling itself the Tarrant Transit Alliance?  Fort Worth is perhaps 35% of the County's population.

How will less than half of the population going to change transit within the county without the backing of the other 65%?  I don't think that relying on just the property taxpayers of the City of Fort Worth is wise or will get the City what it needs.

 

When it wanted a new arena,  Fort Worth issued City Bonds; and like Fort Worth did to finance the new arena; Fort Worth should be thinking in that way to finance a light rail/street car line.  Rail transit will equal or surpass the returns to the City as will Dickies Arena.

 

I am retracting my earlier support for TTA until it can propose a tough but serious plan for transit for the City.



#52 JBB

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:03 AM

The T has come up with a master plan and the additional funding will go toward making that plan happen.  I think it's remarkable that they've accomplished that so far.  They managed to get a council that is typically very dug in to make a major shift in funding policy in the middle of budget approval.  That's a solid hit in their first at bat as far as I'm concerned.



#53 renamerusk

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:46 PM

Named the major city in Texas without central core transit line.  Hint: it is not El Paso.

 

http://www.elpasoinc...d5bf85e166.html

 

 

 

While El Paso sought and received $97m state dollars; we didn't and now don't have it because FWIG does not want it. :ninja:



#54 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:46 PM

San Antonio. At least Fort Worth has commuter rail.


- Dylan


#55 Electricron

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 07:43 AM

How does anything in El Paso have an effect on transit in Tarrant County?



#56 renamerusk

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 08:46 AM

How does anything in El Paso have an effect on transit in Tarrant County?

 

Like Fort Worth, El Paso is a Texas city.

 

It doesn't. It simply amplifies how much Fort Worth, Arlington and Tarrant County are lagging in implementing a core transit line among major Texas cities. As we travel and visit other major cities in Texas, we will quietly lament our deficiency until this situation has changed.



#57 mmmdan

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 11:07 AM

San Antonio. At least Fort Worth has commuter rail.

 

Which has only 2 stops in Fort Worth, doesn't run on Sundays, and has a severely reduced schedule on Saturday.  As a Fort Worth citizen who lives, works, and plays :smwink: in Fort Worth, the TRE doesn't do much for me.  The only time it's useful is during the State Fair when it runs a special schedule on Saturday and actually runs on Sunday.

 

For most cities with "real transit," it's subways and street cars that handle the majority of the destinations, and buses pick up the last mile for destinations that happen to not be close enough to the rail.  As the article about El Paso mentions, rail is pretty permanent.  You can't change a rail line overnight.  For cities with rail, places that people want to go tend to cluster around the rail.

 

And to link this to the topic of Amazon, if Amazon were to come here, and they ended up in Panther Island, I don't think they would care too much about the limited access to I-35 and I-30.  If they are truly wanting an urban campus, and expect a lot of their employees to live nearby, they won't need immediate, easy, access to the highway all the time, because they won't be on the highway that often.  They are probably going to care more about how people get around in the immediate area, because that is where they are going to spend most of their time.  For the few times these hypothetical people need to use the highway, having it take an extra 5 or 10 minutes is not that big of a deal.



#58 renamerusk

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 11:32 AM

San Antonio. At least Fort Worth has commuter rail.

 

Yeah, I thought about San Antonio.

 

S.A. had plans for a streetcar but it has run into some trouble.  However, there is a strong push and support to get their rail campaign restarted:

 

http://tpr.org/post/...r-rail#stream/0



#59 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 07:19 PM

 

San Antonio. At least Fort Worth has commuter rail.

 

Which has only 2 stops in Fort Worth, doesn't run on Sundays, and has a severely reduced schedule on Saturday.  As a Fort Worth citizen who lives, works, and plays :smwink: in Fort Worth, the TRE doesn't do much for me.  The only time it's useful is during the State Fair when it runs a special schedule on Saturday and actually runs on Sunday.

 

For most cities with "real transit," it's subways and street cars that handle the majority of the destinations, and buses pick up the last mile for destinations that happen to not be close enough to the rail.  As the article about El Paso mentions, rail is pretty permanent.  You can't change a rail line overnight.  For cities with rail, places that people want to go tend to cluster around the rail.

 

And to link this to the topic of Amazon, if Amazon were to come here, and they ended up in Panther Island, I don't think they would care too much about the limited access to I-35 and I-30.  If they are truly wanting an urban campus, and expect a lot of their employees to live nearby, they won't need immediate, easy, access to the highway all the time, because they won't be on the highway that often.  They are probably going to care more about how people get around in the immediate area, because that is where they are going to spend most of their time.  For the few times these hypothetical people need to use the highway, having it take an extra 5 or 10 minutes is not that big of a deal.

 

 

Fort Worth has four TRE stations within city proper (two suburban), and is about to get two more when TEX Rail is completed. But yes, commuter rail is more convenient for those entering and leaving our city than those who want to move around within it. Rename was lamenting our lack of urban rail, so I was pointing out at least we have regional rail.

 

As for the TRE, it runs once an hour on Saturdays now.

 

Amazon has stated that transit and freeway access are priorities for them.


- Dylan


#60 mmmdan

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 11:36 AM

I am only seeing three stations with a Fort Worth address.  The 2 downtown and CentrePort.  CentrePort is so far out there that I admittedly didn't even consider it.  Richland Hills and Bell are in Richand Hills and Hurst respectively.

 

My point is basically that while regional rail is nice and all for getting between cities and destinations that are far apart, what do you do when you get there.  If the local transit isn't efficient enough where you don't miss having the car you left at the park and ride lot, then it's not as useful as it could be.

 

I think we worry too much about people getting between the cities, and not enough about getting people around within the city.  Fort Worth is a little unique with its never ending sprawl.  I think it should focus on the core areas near the center of the city and then let it spread out from there.  People that live in the city, but are 15 miles from the core will just have to wait.  That's the price to pay for living that far from the core.

 

Somehow we need to get back to being a tarantula with public transit.

 

With Amazon and transit/highway access, one can be just about anywhere in North Texas and you are not far from the highway.  If their main focus is on urban transit access, adding a few minutes to the time it takes to get to a highway is basically meaningless.  Especially since they are looking to build a headquarters with lots of office workers.  If this was another distribution center, then you would want to be as close to the highway as possible.



#61 renamerusk

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 02:55 PM

...... I don't think that relying on just the property taxpayers of the City of Fort Worth is wise or will get the City what it needs....When it wanted a new arena,  Fort Worth issued City Bonds; and like Fort Worth did to finance the new arena; Fort Worth should be thinking in that way to finance a light rail/street car line.  Rail transit will equal or surpass the returns to the City as will Dickies Arena.....I am retracting my earlier support for TTA until it can propose a tough but serious plan for transit for the City.

 

When DART wants to finance new projects, it does not come to the various city councils to ask for taxpayers money; it issue debt - bonds.  To be serious about a transit line in Fort Worth, we need to issue debt.  For all the enthusiasm for a 1/2 cent increase in funding, will it get the job done soon?  DART will have a downtown subway before Fort Worth will have a street car line along Taylor Street to Near South/JPSHC.

 

 

The get it done approach is to issue debt. DART is to issue debt for subway or Cotton Belt or both -

 

https://www.dmagazin...tton-belt-debt/



#62 Austin55

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:36 PM

Here's an interesting discussion with council member Cary Moon tonight. 

 

 

FW tax payers deserve better than a 4th best solution, patched together last minute. Better Plan in the works, will require voter support.

 

My understanding here is his reference to the "4th option" mentioned here is the proposed 1 cent.

 

The conversation continued, a response from a citizen,

 

 

 

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. We can give a PENNY and still find a better long term solution. Thanks though for the reply

 

Moon's reply

 

 

 

Thank you for your regular engagement. 4 the same penny, we can get 80 miles of rail. FW can do better. Plans in the works #GetSmartTransit

 

 

I then asked if he supported rail over bus improvements, and asked if he was more interested in commuter heavy rail or streetcars. His response, 

 

 

Rail should be primary line. Bus supports Rail. Rail attracts more govt dollars, has higher ridership, attracts corp HQ, and is more safe. Thanks for suggesting reasonable transit options. All mentioned 

(commuter and streetcars) to be considered. Do not think we hold out for Hyperloop or UberHelicopter.

 

 

So, it sounds like something even bigger may be in the works here, and at least one member is really interested in rail transit. This is something to keep a close eye on in the coming week.



#63 renamerusk

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 10:53 AM

Post #62 sums up Post #61 - We can do better. Make a serious commitment to rail transit.



#64 Austin55

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 04:08 PM

Members Jordan and Moon did not show up to today's meeting. The plan is dead at the moment.

 

Most ironically, hours before, Moon tweeted about having ridden the bus.

 

Edit- Bud Kennedy weighs in.

 

It sounds like Moon is still interested in transit, but funding from somewhere else. Regardless, what a dick move to not even show up to the meeting.



#65 renamerusk

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 04:47 PM

...I don't think that relying on just the property taxpayers of the City of Fort Worth is wise or will get the City what it needs....When it wanted a new arena,  Fort Worth issued City Bonds; and like Fort Worth did to finance the new arena; Fort Worth should be thinking in that way to finance a light rail/street car line.

 

I am retracting my earlier support for TTA until it can propose a tough but serious plan for transit for the City.

 

 

....It sounds like Moon is still interested in transit, but funding from somewhere else......

 

Mr. Moon is simply stating the obvious.  Fort Worth has to get serious and proposed a financing plan for rail transit which is now and in the past has had wide public support. 

 

Now, thinking that FWTA is serious leads me to scratch my head;  FWTA is working on a regional commuter rail network with DART ala "Cotton Belt" Line.  DART is facing its own backlash with Dallas v. Suburbs prepared to duke it out.

 

I am for a TTA or any other alliance that will organize and advocate light rail/street car for Fort Worth/Arlington.  You've heard here before, a Tarrant Rail Authority akin to a Tollroad Authority.  It can happen with strong leadership from Fort Worth and Arlington.



#66 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 09:05 PM

Disappointing to hear Cary Moon skipped the meeting. Voting "no" would've been less bad.

 

At least he sounds open to transit improvements in the future...


- Dylan


#67 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 10:29 PM

I am only seeing three stations with a Fort Worth address.  The 2 downtown and CentrePort.  CentrePort is so far out there that I admittedly didn't even consider it.  Richland Hills and Bell are in Richand Hills and Hurst respectively.

 

My point is basically that while regional rail is nice and all for getting between cities and destinations that are far apart, what do you do when you get there.  If the local transit isn't efficient enough where you don't miss having the car you left at the park and ride lot, then it's not as useful as it could be.

 

[SNIP]

 

Although streetcars would be nice, we do have buses in the urban core.

 

Hurst/Bell station is in Fort Worth proper despite the address. That said, Bell station probably serves more Hurst residents than Fort Worth residents.

 

A side thought: Hurst essentially has a free train station. You could say the same about Richland Hills since they pulled out of The T.

 

[Edited to re-arrange my sentences]


- Dylan


#68 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 08:48 PM

UPDATE: Cary Moon doesn't care about expanded bus service. He only wants more and better rail service.

 

http://www.star-tele...e175079831.html

 

Sounds like Amazon's desire for direct rail access was a wake-up call.


- Dylan


#69 Austin55

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 08:51 PM

We need both.

#70 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 09:02 PM

It amazes me there's no bus down White Settlement Road to the Ridgmar transit center. I've been told it's in the plans, though.


- Dylan


#71 renamerusk

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 08:47 AM

It amazes me there's no bus down White Settlement Road to the Ridgmar transit center. I've been told it's in the plans, though.

 

FWTA is too busy planning for transportation to Dallas; Fort Worth neighborhoods can just wait.



#72 pelligrini

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:51 AM

Members Jordan and Moon did not show up to today's meeting. The plan is dead at the moment.

 

Most ironically, hours before, Moon tweeted about having ridden the bus.

 

Edit- Bud Kennedy weighs in.

 

It sounds like Moon is still interested in transit, but funding from somewhere else. Regardless, what a dick move to not even show up to the meeting.

 

The Star Telegram Editorial board also put in a couple cents late yesterday: http://www.star-tele...e175352601.html


Erik France


#73 Electricron

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 02:06 PM

Lacking two city council members didnt cause the lack of a quorum, there were five council members missing.
Even the Star-Telegram conceded that this was a late maneuver in setting the tax rate process.
The tax rates were being lowered because the real estate evaluations had risen - to keep the amount of taxes faced by individual property owners the same. So this added 1cent to the property tax rates at the last second was actually a tax increase, although being disguised as a tax cut.
What FWTA needs is a referendum to increase its sales tax rate, so it can afford to provide much more from its own budget that it can control. Relying upon the good will of the city council on a year by year basis will Not be a reliable, steady source of income to do anything additional.

#74 mmmdan

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 11:13 AM

If you are looking at total dollars, even the final rate is a tax increase.  The new lower rate is still bringing in more money on existing property than it did last year.  Of course, individual results will vary based on the amount of increase/decrease of individual properties.

 

http://fortworthtexa.../budget/fy2018/

 

Note that of the total increase in revenue from property taxes, $35,400,918, less than half, $15,826,137 is from new property.

 

For Fort Worth to have taken in the same amount of money from existing properties, that tax rate, known as the Effective Tax Rate  would have to be $0.787766.  http://fortworthtexa.../tax-notice.pdf

 

No matter what, the city is "increasing your taxes."

 

This is where it is very important to be specific when talking about taxes.  There is a big difference between the tax rate and the amount of money generated.  Talking taxes in general, your rate can stay the same, but if the value of what you are being taxed on goes up, then you will pay more in $$.  The taxing entity hasn't technically increased your taxes, but your value, whether it's property, income, whatever, has gone up, causing an increase in $$.  In my opinion, it's a bit disingenuous to call that a tax increase.

 

Really what's increasing your taxes is the fact that all of your new neighbors are willing to pay more $/sq. ft. to live in your neighborhood than you did when you moved in.



#75 renamerusk

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 12:23 PM

Its a mess.  Mayor Price is abdicating her role as the leader and suggesting that Fort Worth's transit problems are a county concern.  The question to the Mayor is when and where do you see suburban cities concerning themselves with the transit issues facing the City?  As long as the county, in particularly, find it more important to construct surface parking lots for cars and the FWTA focuses on commuter rail, the citizens living in the City will be left with a second tier, no make that a third tier, transit system.

 

The one encouraging theme that comes out of this debate is that Fort Worth must get very serious about the transit needs of the City instead of nickel and dime-ing the transit project. 

 

A major barrier facing this City is a mayor who craves regionalism.  Fort Worth will not attract a company like Amazon or will not have the transit it requires if it measures every opportunity through the lenses of regionalism.

 

Turmoil at the City Council -

 

http://www.fortworth...fa4f3383a0.html



#76 Jeriat

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 03:59 PM

Its a mess.  Mayor Price is abdicating her role as the leader and suggesting that Fort Worth's transit problems are a county concern.  The question to the Mayor is when and where do you see suburban cities concerning themselves with the transit issues facing the City?  As long as the county, in particularly, find it more important to construct surface parking lots for cars and the FWTA focuses on commuter rail, the citizens living in the City will be left with a second tier, no make that a third tier, transit system.

 

The one encouraging theme that comes out of this debate is that Fort Worth must get very serious about the transit needs of the City instead of nickel and dime-ing the transit project. 

 

A major barrier facing this City is a mayor who craves regionalism.  Fort Worth will not attract a company like Amazon or will not have the transit it requires if it measures every opportunity through the lenses of regionalism.

 

Turmoil at the City Council -

 

http://www.fortworth...fa4f3383a0.html

 

 

 

 

"Stay passionate, stay engaged, but the council has to go on priorities," [Jungus Jordan] said. "It took us 55 years from inception of the Chisholm Trail Parkway to get it done.

 

...reading that pissed me off more than the vote, itself. 

That's comparing a tollway that really just one section of the city uses to mass transit for the ENTIRE city. 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#77 Volare

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 06:12 PM

The Mayor is clueless. If Fort Worth was like Minneapolis- 60 sq miles surrounded by tiny cities all around, perhaps it would make sense, and then we could talk about regionalism and perhaps construct something like the Met Council.

 

But we don't have that. We have a massive sprawling city, and the hundreds of square miles of Fort Worth are already more than adequate to support and need public transit.

 

What we need to do is get serious about stopping the funding of the prison-industrial complex, start funding needed Police items out of the general fund, and sunset the CCPD.



#78 pelligrini

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 09:39 AM

There was a good opinion article in the Star Telegram from a citizen member of the Denton County Transportation Authority last night:

http://www.star-tele...e177043856.html


Erik France


#79 Austin55

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 10:10 AM

Good article, but I hope the focus is on local transit before regional transit.



#80 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 06:38 PM

To steal a quote from you- we need both.


- Dylan


#81 JBB

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:22 PM

I agree, but I like to think that Fort Worth has done their part in contributing to regional transit after the TRE and both phases of TEX Rail. I would rather see the southern phase of TEX Rail pushed back until local and neighborhood options can be better addressed.

#82 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 03:16 PM

Not sure it will ever happen, but I'd like to see a rail line (or at least a bus) to Arlington. As we all know, there's no bus service in many of our suburbs.

 

But yes, it would be nice if routes and service hours could be expanded in other parts of Fort Worth like they were in the north side.


- Dylan


#83 Jeriat

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 09:51 PM

Not sure it will ever happen, but I'd like to see a rail line (or at least a bus) to Arlington. As we all know, there's no bus service in many of our suburbs.

 

But yes, it would be nice if routes and service hours could be expanded in other parts of Fort Worth like they were in the north side.

 

It's going to happen, eventually. 

Arlington can't hold on to that "Suburb Snob" mentality forever... 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#84 JBB

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 10:05 PM

The city and citizens of Arlington aren't going to be the biggest barrier.  It's going to be the cost.  Using the UP right of way (I doubt using their tracks will be an option) or the I-30 right of way (if that were even an option) or acquiring a new right of way will cost a fortune.  I wouldn't be surprised if an east-west commuter line cost 2-3 times more than TEX Rail.  I would much rather see that money used on sensible light rail or street car options within the loop.






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