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901 Commerce St. - High-rise Mixed Use

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#51 renamerusk

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:58 PM

FWST - "Todd Marchesani, director of acquisitions for Southern Land, said the company has been looking for a downtown location for more than three years, and lost a couple of sites to buyers who paid more......We’ve been actively looking for a development site in downtown Fort Worth, Marchesani said...We love everything about it. We’ve made offers on a number of sites and fortunately we were able to put this one under contract.”

 

Very interesting and hush-hush, but apparently, there are more projects in the works for Downtown. Where likely?

 

 



#52 rriojas71

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:02 PM

Sandra Baker has an article out. It has a few more details and qoutes from the meeting..
http://www.star-tele...e171893472.html


It's funny that the article states a 30 story tower, but the building will be 32... hence my suggestion that when someone other that skyscraper enthusiasts mentions a 30 story tower that it could actually mean that the bldg is 30+ floors

#53 renamerusk

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:03 PM

Should do a wonderful job blocking the concrete blob when viewed from the east side.

 

Concrete blob?



#54 rriojas71

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:04 PM

FWST - "Todd Marchesani, director of acquisitions for Southern Land, said the company has been looking for a downtown location for more than three years, and lost a couple of sites to buyers who paid more......We’ve been actively looking for a development site in downtown Fort Worth, Marchesani said...We love everything about it. We’ve made offers on a number of sites and fortunately we were able to put this one under contract.”
 
Very interesting and hush-hush, but apparently, there are more projects in the works for Downtown. Where likely?


Let's hope that they are all those parking lots east of Calhoun

#55 renamerusk

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:17 PM

Its time for the name "Commerce" to be erased.



#56 JBB

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:21 PM

 

FWST - "Todd Marchesani, director of acquisitions for Southern Land, said the company has been looking for a downtown location for more than three years, and lost a couple of sites to buyers who paid more......We’ve been actively looking for a development site in downtown Fort Worth, Marchesani said...We love everything about it. We’ve made offers on a number of sites and fortunately we were able to put this one under contract.”
 
Very interesting and hush-hush, but apparently, there are more projects in the works for Downtown. Where likely?


Let's hope that they are all those parking lots east of Calhoun

 

 

While I agree and hope you guys are right, it could also be the Frost site, the XTO garage site, and probably a handful of other sites with ongoing or already announced projects.



#57 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:03 PM

Austin, could you show your sketch from roughly ground level on 121 or 30?

 

Looks like this tower may be significant infill, but it's hard to judge height from that angle.


- Dylan


#58 Austin55

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:06 PM

FWBP seems to have gotten thier hands on some of the massing models that were presented. Here's a link to thier article.

 

 

jX6MSkZ.png

dpVJVIc.png



#59 JBB

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:16 PM

A sampling of GDA's residential projects:

 

http://gda-architect...esidential.html



#60 Austin55

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:42 PM

A sampling of GDA's residential projects:

 

http://gda-architect...esidential.html  

 

In particular the Knox building in Dallas, which is also being developed by Southern land Co.  

 

 

Austin, could you show your sketch from roughly ground level on 121 or 30?

 

Looks like this tower may be significant infill, but it's hard to judge height from that angle.

 

Here's a KMZ file you can download and load into Google Earth.

 

 

 

FWST - "Todd Marchesani, director of acquisitions for Southern Land, said the company has been looking for a downtown location for more than three years, and lost a couple of sites to buyers who paid more......We’ve been actively looking for a development site in downtown Fort Worth, Marchesani said...We love everything about it. We’ve made offers on a number of sites and fortunately we were able to put this one under contract.”
 
Very interesting and hush-hush, but apparently, there are more projects in the works for Downtown. Where likely?


Let's hope that they are all those parking lots east of Calhoun

 

 

While I agree and hope you guys are right, it could also be the Frost site, the XTO garage site, and probably a handful of other sites with ongoing or already announced projects.

 

 

Remember XTO has 2 other large lots that are coming up the 3/4 block shared w W.T. Waggoner and the full block from the former Block TU proposal. Will be interesting to see what happens to those. GDA and Southern Land Co are setting an excellent precedent here!



#61 rriojas71

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:13 PM

FWBP seems to have gotten thier hands on some of the massing models that were presented. Here's a link to thier article.
 
 
jX6MSkZ.png
dpVJVIc.png



I'm sure it is going to be glass and hopefully it won't look too boring, but the lower picture with it added within the skyline makes it look like Burnett Plaza's little brother showed up to town. It almonost creates an Burnett Plaza walled in effect... now wouldn't that be a tragic outcome. Lol

#62 johnfwd

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 05:27 AM

 As viewed in Austin's suggested aerial imagery (Post#58), this tower would certaintly contrast with the darker appearing buildings nearby, if its color is all white as depicted in the conceptual planning design.  I hope the real tower is not painted all white, which to me is bland looking.  But this is an exciting time to be working (and residing) in downtown Fort Worth!



#63 Now in Denton

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:17 AM

Signage debate is back on because they want to put a sign on the crown saying "WEWORK"  Not withstanding the debate about downtown signage. The word itself has a tad bit of humor in it. lol  



#64 JBB

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:54 AM

 As viewed in Austin's suggested aerial imagery (Post#58), this tower would certaintly contrast with the darker appearing buildings nearby, if its color is all white as depicted in the conceptual planning design.  I hope the real tower is not painted all white, which to me is bland looking. 


As Austin said, that's just a massing model to represent the shape and size of the building. It's highly unlikely that it's going to look like that.

#65 renamerusk

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 12:49 PM

 

 

FWST - "Todd Marchesani, director of acquisitions for Southern Land, said the company has been looking for a downtown location for more than three years, and lost a couple of sites to buyers who paid more......We’ve been actively looking for a development site in downtown Fort Worth, Marchesani said...We love everything about it. We’ve made offers on a number of sites and fortunately we were able to put this one under contract.”
 
Very interesting and hush-hush, but apparently, there are more projects in the works for Downtown. Where likely?


Let's hope that they are all those parking lots east of Calhoun

 

 

While I agree and hope you guys are right, it could also be the Frost site, the XTO garage site, and probably a handful of other sites with ongoing or already announced projects.

 

 

My guess is that it is neither Frost or XTO, but might have been the sites of the two new hotels - Hilton Gardens and Hampton Inn.  Southern Lands goal was to be near the entertainment district of Downtown.  The Hilton Gardens site would have been an unbelievable impact on the East Gateway into Downtown.



#66 Urbndwlr

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 01:31 PM

I'm glad to see this proposal from a company that appears to be strong and capable of good design.

I'm happy about it because I (like many forum participants) believe the urban core will continue to improve as it gains stronger residential density.

 

The thing that has come to mind with this proposal is: with our small blocks (200x200), developers pretty much have to max out the site to make numbers work.  When the build right up to the street, and over 250 feet tall, does that create a canyon effect?  

 

Many cities have required step backs up higher to allow more natural light in.  I dont think we're at serious risk of this becoming an epidemic soon, but this case has caused me to think about whether at some point in the next few years or so the City/Downtown FW Inc needs to take a look at whether those kinds of things are encouraged in some way, over a certain height. 

 

If the building is really thin, it is likely impossible - and we all I think agree that we want Downtown to continue to grow in density and both office and residential population. 

 

 

Came across these stats last night - thought I'd share: 

Downtown Fort Worth (76102) Residential population.  Rent Cafe says 76102 has 9,377 residents, averaging 1.82/household.  (3467 households). 

Didnt see density per acre but its not very high b/c of all the railroad/street/commercial/institutional uses.  Point is there is a LONG way to go for 76102 to rival 76107 or 76110 in residential density.  (using zip codes of course, not neighborhoods)

 

Think we have about 2,000 units in pipeline for downtown 2018-2020, right?  (my very rough recollection)

If so would mean Downtown Fort Worth should have about 5,500 households, and about 11,500 residents by 2020/2021. 

 

Note - not sure if that includes the houses over near I-35. 



#67 renamerusk

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 01:41 PM

FWB - "Downtown Design Review Board staff initially presented the project to the Board and recommended it for approval. During Board discussion Board Chair Kirk Millican recommended the developer have façade variation toward the top of the project, including possibly some two-story penthouses rather than simply one-story apartments".

 

Why should a board member make this recommendation?; and is the perception valid that Fort Worth hamstrings outsiders but greases the way for its insiders to do business in the City?

 

I admit that this sounds a bit over the top, but these obstacles seem to be intentional.



#68 Austin55

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 02:17 PM

Think we have about 2,000 units in pipeline for downtown 2018-2020, right?  (my very rough recollection)

 

3,420 units. 863 underway, 2,557  proposed.



#69 Volare

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 02:54 PM

 

Should do a wonderful job blocking the concrete blob when viewed from the east side.

 

Concrete blob?

 

 

Burnett Plaza.

 

Speaking of which, with the primarily east and west facing facades of this new building, you're in for some pretty unspectacular near views. On the east side you get to look at acres of parking, and active train yard, and the massive 35/30 Interchange. On the west side you get to stare at Burnett Plaza. 

 

But it is good to see a building planned in Fort Worth that isn't made of lumber!



#70 John T Roberts

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 03:19 PM

On the west side the view is not that bad. The residents to have General Worth Square to look down upon.  Also, to mitigate the view of Burnett Plaza they will have two new hotels to gaze upon.  The Convention Center Arena dome will be replaced with more exhibit/ballroom space, and there has been talk about attaching another Convention Center Hotel to the building.  Therefore, another high rise might be within the views of the western units.



#71 Jeriat

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 04:27 PM

 

 

Should do a wonderful job blocking the concrete blob when viewed from the east side.

 

Concrete blob?

 

 

Burnett Plaza.

 

Speaking of which, with the primarily east and west facing facades of this new building, you're in for some pretty unspectacular near views. On the east side you get to look at acres of parking, and active train yard, and the massive 35/30 Interchange. On the west side you get to stare at Burnett Plaza. 

 

 

 

Still view it as a future residential conversion candidate, but I wouldn't hold my breath. 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#72 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 08:24 PM

I'm sure it is going to be glass and hopefully it won't look too boring, but the lower picture with it added within the skyline makes it look like Burnett Plaza's little brother showed up to town. It almonost creates an Burnett Plaza walled in effect... now wouldn't that be a tragic outcome. Lol

 

This tower does seem really wide. I'd prefer it to be a little narrower so it looks taller.


- Dylan


#73 John T Roberts

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 08:36 PM

Rename, Kirk Millican is a fellow architect and a good designer.  He and I worked together back in 1988.  He has many years of architectural experience.  That is one reason that architects are asked to serve on the DDRB.  I honestly don't think this was an intentional effort to make projects more difficult for outsiders, and grease the wheels for insiders.  Many DDRB meetings have the commissioners making design suggestions to improve the project.

 

PAS, the dimensions of this building should be very similar to those of the Frost Tower.  I don't think the building is too wide.  If they back off of the wall of Winfield Place by 6 feet, then the tower will appear narrower and that will allow glass on the two sides that face into the historic building.



#74 renamerusk

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 09:01 PM

Rename, Kirk Millican is a fellow architect and a good designer.  He and I worked together back in 1988.  He has many years of architectural experience.  That is one reason that architects are asked to serve on the DDRB.  I honestly don't think this was an intentional effort to make projects more difficult for outsiders, and grease the wheels for insiders.  Many DDRB meetings have the commissioners making design suggestions to improve the project.

 

PAS, the dimensions of this building should be very similar to those of the Frost Tower.  I don't think the building is too wide.  If they back off of the wall of Winfield Place by 6 feet, then the tower will appear narrower and that will allow glass on the two sides that face into the historic building.

 

In all due respect to Mr. Millican, it is an odd recommendation to suggest the intrinsic aspects of a project IMO;  I do not wish to offend him in anyway; and suspect that you are correct that his intentions were not intended to create obstacles to this project. It was however a strange recommendation that looked like micromanagement.  The design company and the owner should make that decision alone about rooms, room sizes and the likes.



#75 John T Roberts

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:54 PM

I think that sometimes suggestions from the members of Boards and Commissions do appear like micromanagement, but having a new set of eyes on a project sometimes improves them.  When we were in architecture school we frequently had to show our projects and have other professors "jury" the designs.  This session was very informative and we learned from those juries.  For the Boards and Commissions that hear the cases brought in front of them, this is their chance to influence the design for the better.



#76 Austin55

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 01:44 AM

The height looked to be about the same as the uppermost setback on the SW facing side of 777 Main.

 

Since at least one of the massing models is public and been posted here, I think it does appear to be about that height. I measured that setback at a hair above 400 feet, so there's a good possibility this will be in that range and probably will be taller than Frost, which is 368. 



#77 John T Roberts

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 12:55 PM

A geotech crew was core drilling soil samples on the site today.  A picture has been posted on Fortwortharchitecture.com's Facebook page.



#78 arch-image

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:56 AM

I don't really see the massing as an issue, it is a little thin but not dramatically. I do like the idea of stepping back a few of the uppermost floors a bit to add some "shape" to the building vs a plain box. Mainly I hope they do something a bit different with the exterior skin in lieu of just another glass box.



#79 A_Random_Username

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 03:30 PM

Crews are now doing some work, not quite sure what exactly.

#80 John T Roberts

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 08:15 PM

The crews are with a geotechnical firm, and they are continuing with the drilling to take the soil samples. I took a look at the site late this afternoon.



#81 renamerusk

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 09:29 PM

The crews are with a geotechnical firm, and they are continuing with the drilling to take the soil samples. I took a look at the site late this afternoon.

 

 Drilling and taking soil samples - does it indicate that actual construction will begin sooner than later?



#82 John T Roberts

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 09:54 PM

No, the information gained from the report will be used to design the foundation of the building. 







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