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New Hotel at 9th and Commerce

Downtown New Hotels Convention Center

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#1 Brian Luenser

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:13 AM

They have been talking about this for a while but it looks like it is finally progressing.
I am very glad. Would like a 75 story building on the lot but will take something nice looking. The old building is a bit nostalgic but I think something nicer near the convention center is better for visitors. (An old abandoned asbestos filled building does the City no favors, really.)

Article in today's Fort Worth Star Telegram
http://www.star-tele...oves-money.html
www.fortworthview.com

#2 Jeriat

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:02 AM

They have been talking about this for a while but it looks like it is finally progressing.
I am very glad. Would like a 75 story building on the lot but will take something nice looking. The old building is a bit nostalgic but I think something nicer near the convention center is better for visitors. (An old abandoned asbestos filled building does the City no favors, really.)

Article in today's Fort Worth Star Telegram
http://www.star-tele...oves-money.html


Bout time!

(I would have gone for 10-25 stories, but I'll take it).

It really wasn't until just a few years ago that I realized it was the old bus station. My mom and I always caught a Greyhound to Central Texas to visit relatives back when I was little and she didn't have a car. For nostalgic reasons, I'll miss it, but I'm glad it's gettin' knocked down.

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#3 John T Roberts

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:35 AM

I would have preferred taller than four stories, but at least it's more new construction.

#4 johnfwd

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:31 AM

I don’t know downtown Fort Worth’s current hotel occupancy rate, but I wonder about the economic viability of a new hotel in the same area where there’s a thriving high-rise Omni hotel but a less noticeable Sheraton that has declared bankruptcy. Not being a hotel marketing expert, I suppose there’s economy in building an inconspicuously sized hotel in that location, but will it be marketable? (Yes, I said the same thing about the one in Midtown and someone replied that reservation marketing is done through the Internet).

#5 jefffwd

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:25 PM

The one they just finished in Oklahoma City is kinda cool looking...

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#6 JBB

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:31 PM

I don’t know downtown Fort Worth’s current hotel occupancy rate, but I wonder about the economic viability of a new hotel in the same area where there’s a thriving high-rise Omni hotel but a less noticeable Sheraton that has declared bankruptcy. Not being a hotel marketing expert, I suppose there’s economy in building an inconspicuously sized hotel in that location, but will it be marketable? (Yes, I said the same thing about the one in Midtown and someone replied that reservation marketing is done through the Internet).


I don't have time to look up the topic, but I remember someone posting in the thread about the Sheraton bankruptcy that it was performing just fine financially and the owner was having trouble with the debt.

#7 NSFW

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 04:03 PM

My immediate thought seeing the title of this thread, YEA!!!!

My thought after reading the linked article, YUCK!!!!

Another cookie cutter design hotel.

Adrian


#8 ramjet

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 06:01 PM

Don't know an iota about the hotel biz, but know as a consumer who travels to Fort Worth frequently, I pay a lot more for lesser digs downtown compared to other sub-markets in DFW. My guess is that the market is profitable in downtown Fort Worth. I think the Sheraton bankruptcy is not indicative of the overall market. After staying there a few times, the hotel is just not up to what I think of Sheraton standards, thus is likely why it might be struggling. Or perhaps it's just bad management. I'm happy to have additional options downtown, but I was hoping for something more interesting like an Aloft. But a new hotel, bring it on!

#9 Doohickie

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:08 AM

My immediate thought seeing the title of this thread, YEA!!!!

My thought after reading the linked article, YUCK!!!!

Another cookie cutter design hotel.

The signature hotels carry HIGH room rates. The cookie cutter ones are more affordable. When I travel, I generally budget $50-100 per night for hotels. I'm thinking you can't get into the Omni for that. Probably won't be able to get into the new hotel for that either, but probably pretty close, and right in downtown.
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#10 Jeriat

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:09 AM


My immediate thought seeing the title of this thread, YEA!!!!

My thought after reading the linked article, YUCK!!!!

Another cookie cutter design hotel.

The signature hotels carry HIGH room rates. The cookie cutter ones are more affordable. When I travel, I generally budget $50-100 per night for hotels. I'm thinking you can't get into the Omni for that. Probably won't be able to get into the new hotel for that either, but probably pretty close, and right in downtown.


Yeah. But they could have at least added another 4-8 floors. Just sayin'.

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#11 Ron Payne

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:12 PM

I don’t know downtown Fort Worth’s current hotel occupancy rate, but I wonder about the economic viability of a new hotel in the same area where there’s a thriving high-rise Omni hotel but a less noticeable Sheraton that has declared bankruptcy. Not being a hotel marketing expert, I suppose there’s economy in building an inconspicuously sized hotel in that location, but will it be marketable? (Yes, I said the same thing about the one in Midtown and someone replied that reservation marketing is done through the Internet).


Based on the info we get periodically from the T&P management, this year's hotel occupancy rate through May is at 71.5%, with an average room rate of $147.24 and just over $4.6 million going into the city's coffers through taxes.
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#12 Brian Luenser

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 02:47 PM

It does almost sound like a misprint in the paper. 210 rooms, conference rooms, swimming pool, outdoor dining. And 4 stories? Hard for me to believe.
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#13 RD Milhollin

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:31 PM

It does almost sound like a misprint in the paper. 210 rooms, conference rooms, swimming pool, outdoor dining. And 4 stories? Hard for me to believe.


Yeah, since you mentioned it... The 9-floor OKC hotel pictured above is 200 rooms, and the 200' x 200' block the Fort Worth hotel is to be built on is going to include a parking garage? Surely that reference to 4 stories is a misprint. You know sometimes " a "9" can look like a "4" when you go back and look at notes jotted down quickly...

#14 ron4Life

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:08 PM

Yes, 25 flo... I mean 9 floors would be a nice addition. I'm not feeling the parking thing though, but that's me.

#15 johnfwd

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 10:24 AM

Without getting technical about the extent size of acreage is a factor determining the dimensions of a structure, I note that the Raymond Group built a four-story hotel in Midtown that is 157 rooms (as reported). But the structure was built more horizontally than vertically because of the nature of the tract. I don’t know about the nature of the former UW site, but will conjecture that the number of floors will depend partly on the density of the site. Site requirements shape economy of scale considerations, as well.

#16 downtowndweller

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:11 AM

when was the last time new apartments/condos/lofts were built downtown?

#17 Brian Luenser

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:38 AM

when was the last time new apartments/condos/lofts were built downtown?


I am thinking the condos at Texas and Henderson. Apartments at Lincoln Trinity Bluff on the North end maybe in 2010. (Workmate lives there, looking for a house in very near Westside.)
www.fortworthview.com

#18 ron4Life

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:17 AM

Was there some type of write up about this new hotel proposal?

#19 Urbndwlr

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

Too bad it isnt a larger hotel like what is happening right next to the Austin Convention Center. I understand that to make a meaningful impact on attracting larger conventions it is important to have multiple larger hotels (400+ rooms) rather than a bunch of small ones, since the organizers like to have their guests staying in fewer larger hotels.

See Nashville and Austin for what they are doing with convention centers and adjacent hotels. I think Fort Worth would benefit from a more aggressive convention business. We have made big progress since the CC expansion and the opening of the Omni but we could stand to get much larger.

#20 ron4Life

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:43 AM

Too bad it isnt a larger hotel like what is happening right next to the Austin Convention Center. I understand that to make a meaningful impact on attracting larger conventions it is important to have multiple larger hotels (400+ rooms) rather than a bunch of small ones, since the organizers like to have their guests staying in fewer larger hotels.

See Nashville and Austin for what they are doing with convention centers and adjacent hotels. I think Fort Worth would benefit from a more aggressive convention business. We have made big progress since the CC expansion and the opening of the Omni but we could stand to get much larger.

Well said...

#21 Jeriat

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:47 AM

Too bad it isnt a larger hotel like what is happening right next to the Austin Convention Center. I understand that to make a meaningful impact on attracting larger conventions it is important to have multiple larger hotels (400+ rooms) rather than a bunch of small ones, since the organizers like to have their guests staying in fewer larger hotels.

See Nashville and Austin for what they are doing with convention centers and adjacent hotels. I think Fort Worth would benefit from a more aggressive convention business. We have made big progress since the CC expansion and the opening of the Omni but we could stand to get much larger.


Problem is, there are people in this city (with power) who apparently don't want this place to be a city. Which is sad, because we're projected to have around 900,000 in the next 20-30 years. Not really too far off when ya think about it. We're already nearing the end of 2012....

Some people think that advancing in anyway as a major city is being "too much like Dallas". You know, because Dallas is the ONLY major city in the world with skyscrapers, light rail, well managed public transportation, major sports facilities/teams, a name in the national spotlight, tourism, etc.... :rolleyes:

It's just time for this city and the attitudes in this city to grow up and do what's best for ALL instead of what's best for themselves.

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#22 johnfwd

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:12 PM


Too bad it isnt a larger hotel like what is happening right next to the Austin Convention Center. I understand that to make a meaningful impact on attracting larger conventions it is important to have multiple larger hotels (400+ rooms) rather than a bunch of small ones, since the organizers like to have their guests staying in fewer larger hotels.

See Nashville and Austin for what they are doing with convention centers and adjacent hotels. I think Fort Worth would benefit from a more aggressive convention business. We have made big progress since the CC expansion and the opening of the Omni but we could stand to get much larger.


Problem is, there are people in this city (with power) who apparently don't want this place to be a city. Which is sad, because we're projected to have around 900,000 in the next 20-30 years. Not really too far off when ya think about it. We're already nearing the end of 2012....

Some people think that advancing in anyway as a major city is being "too much like Dallas". You know, because Dallas is the ONLY major city in the world with skyscrapers, light rail, well managed public transportation, major sports facilities/teams, a name in the national spotlight, tourism, etc.... :rolleyes:

It's just time for this city and the attitudes in this city to grow up and do what's best for ALL instead of what's best for themselves.


I've been puzzled by the "no growth" philosophy as it pertains to Fort Worth for some time. My only conclusion is that it's a little late to be applying this philosophy here, what with the skyscrapers that have populated our downtown for years. It's not as if builders are averse to high-rise construction these days--after all, New Yorkers didn't replace the twin towers with three or four smaller structures. Maybe Fort Worth has always suffered a little of the "Minneapolis-St. Paul" syndrome. Alas, poor St. Paul will always be the little brother who gets less attention. Aside from whether high-rise hotels are more marketable than small-sized ones, you'd think a Hilton or Sheraton would be a little embarrassed to have a four-story structure in the downtown of the nation's 18th largest city (I know I would be).

#23 Jeriat

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:25 PM



Too bad it isnt a larger hotel like what is happening right next to the Austin Convention Center. I understand that to make a meaningful impact on attracting larger conventions it is important to have multiple larger hotels (400+ rooms) rather than a bunch of small ones, since the organizers like to have their guests staying in fewer larger hotels.

See Nashville and Austin for what they are doing with convention centers and adjacent hotels. I think Fort Worth would benefit from a more aggressive convention business. We have made big progress since the CC expansion and the opening of the Omni but we could stand to get much larger.


Problem is, there are people in this city (with power) who apparently don't want this place to be a city. Which is sad, because we're projected to have around 900,000 in the next 20-30 years. Not really too far off when ya think about it. We're already nearing the end of 2012....

Some people think that advancing in anyway as a major city is being "too much like Dallas". You know, because Dallas is the ONLY major city in the world with skyscrapers, light rail, well managed public transportation, major sports facilities/teams, a name in the national spotlight, tourism, etc.... :rolleyes:

It's just time for this city and the attitudes in this city to grow up and do what's best for ALL instead of what's best for themselves.


I've been puzzled by the "no growth" philosophy as it pertains to Fort Worth for some time. My only conclusion is that it's a little late to be applying this philosophy here, what with the skyscrapers that have populated our downtown for years. It's not as if builders are averse to high-rise construction these days--after all, New Yorkers didn't replace the twin towers with three or four smaller structures. Maybe Fort Worth has always suffered a little of the "Minneapolis-St. Paul" syndrome. Alas, poor St. Paul will always be the little brother who gets less attention. Aside from whether high-rise hotels are more marketable than small-sized ones, you'd think a Hilton or Sheraton would be a little embarrassed to have a four-story structure in the downtown of the nation's 18th largest city (I know I would be).


.... 16th.

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#24 John T Roberts

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:50 PM

Thank you, Jeriat. I was going to make that correction. Fort Worth is the 16th Largest City in the U.S.

#25 Jeriat

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:03 AM

Your point is still valid, though.

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#26 JBB

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:33 PM

I hate to be the one that always falls back to this position, but I have to What's more likely: A sexy, shadowy conspiracy of which there is no evidence to impede development and keep the city "small" or unsexy economic forces like supply and demand that have been proven to hold true for centuries?

#27 cjyoung

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:02 PM

I'd like to see at least 30+ stories. What's the current status of this project?

#28 Jeriat

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

I'd like to see at least 30+ stories. What's the current status of this project?


I think somewhere between 15-25 would be perfect, but I don't know what's going on right now. The current building on that site hasn't been prepped for demo.

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#29 cjyoung

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:38 AM

I'd like to see the building that John designed years ago put right in the middle of downtown, but for some reason we have artificial height restrictions in Funkytown.

#30 ramjet

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:47 PM

A new Hampton Inn just opened in downtown Austin near the UT campus. It looks about nine stories, too. Not bad design for a budget oriented hotel. Maybe Fort Worth's will have the same sort of look...

Posted Image

#31 RD Milhollin

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:14 PM

If that is the one I think (hard to tell, no photo included on the Hampton Inn website, but 1701 Lavaca St.) the hotel above is 137 rooms, and the initial plans for the Fort Worth hotel called for 210 rooms. I am thinking maybe the reporter misheard the spokesman and the planned-for height is 14 floors rather than 9 (misreading own notes) or 4 (reported in the article). The parking entrance on the side of the Austin Hotel looks fine, are some of the spaces underground? I suppose above the parking are facilities like offices, conference and ballroom, and storage. Rates at the Austin hotel run $160 - 170.

#32 BlueMound

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:01 PM

Looks pretty good to me.
Alot better than the Sheraton,

#33 Jeriat

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

A new Hampton Inn just opened in downtown Austin near the UT campus. It looks about nine stories, too. Not bad design for a budget oriented hotel. Maybe Fort Worth's will have the same sort of look...

Posted Image


See, this right here would be better. With 6 more floors added, that works.

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#34 NSFW

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:29 PM

I would be happy to see something like that.

Adrian


#35 Austin55

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:34 PM

Hampton Inn has some good buildings around, I like this one in Vancouver. http://thepointsguy....n-Vancouver.jpg

#36 ron4Life

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:45 PM

The new Hampton Inn in downtown Austin would fit well in our downtown. Is 9th and Commerce section part of Sundance Square?

#37 Jeriat

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 06:24 PM

The new Hampton Inn in downtown Austin would fit well in our downtown. Is 9th and Commerce section part of Sundance Square?


No it isn't.

But considering the area, it would be great focal point to create another "Sundance Square"....

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#38 Eauge

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:58 PM

If that is the one I think (hard to tell, no photo included on the Hampton Inn website, but 1701 Lavaca St.) the hotel above is 137 rooms, and the initial plans for the Fort Worth hotel called for 210 rooms. I am thinking maybe the reporter misheard the spokesman and the planned-for height is 14 floors rather than 9 (misreading own notes) or 4 (reported in the article). The parking entrance on the side of the Austin Hotel looks fine, are some of the spaces underground? I suppose above the parking are facilities like offices, conference and ballroom, and storage. Rates at the Austin hotel run $160 - 170.



#39 Eauge

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:01 PM

My company did the electrical on this hotel. The Hampton Austin is 7 floors of guestrooms 1 floor of lobby/common areas and 2 levels of garage beneath it. Fort Worth I believe is 6 floors with 2 levels of garage beneath. It will be a Raymond Management property, same owners as the Midtown development that we are also doing.

#40 renamerusk

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:04 PM

My company did the electrical on this hotel. The Hampton Austin is 7 floors of guestrooms 1 floor of lobby/common areas and 2 levels of garage beneath it. Fort Worth I believe is 6 floors with 2 levels of garage beneath. It will be a Raymond Management property, same owners as the Midtown development that we are also doing.


When the site and the project were originally announce and in disbelief, I asked our architect of residence, John Roberts, how a hotel of 150-200 rooms could fit on such a small parcel of land having only an elevation of four floors. I thought it had to be taller. Six floors is the tallest and the latest forecast that I have read. Thanks for the information.

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#41 Eauge

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:12 PM

Thank you and to give others an idea of the area needed to achieve that amount of rooms the HWS midtown is a four story with 112 room (extended stay so rooms are larger) and if I remember right HGI midtown was closer to 150 rooms with HGI's rooms being smaller and the building 10' longer.
I also originally heard it would be a four story which seamed impossible. The bid invite I saw indicated 6 floors and 2 parking.

I enjoy everyone's info and the Sundance update pics are great.

#42 Austin55

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:56 PM

Great info. Any clue as to what it looks like?

#43 Eauge

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 07:23 AM

Not just yet. Last I've seen is a basic size description. When I get back to the office I will see if anything new has surfaced.

#44 Eauge

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 08:40 AM

Correction
Hampton Inn Fort Worth will be 5 stories of metal stud rooms with 3 levels of parking all above grade, so the height will be similar to the Austin Hampton in. It will have a combination of brick, stone, and aluminum paneling.
I'm away from a computer can you give me some tips for inserting pics?

#45 Austin55

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:45 AM

That sounds like pretty good news.
Are you on a phone? Android or Apple?

#46 Eauge

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:49 AM

iPhone.

#47 John T Roberts

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 02:16 PM

Photos should be housed on the web before they are posted. You then provide the link to the picture location. In the dialog box above the text area, click on the picture icon and then you can post the link there with the proper code.

#48 austlar1

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:56 PM

The hotel down in Austin that is posted above was not originally designed as a hotel. The hotel was finished out of the already completed shell of a failed condo project. The developers never had solid financing and started building without it at the time of the big crunch in or around 2008. The units were not selling, and the funding dried up. The shell set empty (shades of the old Intel shell in downtown Austin that got demolished finally for the new Federal courthouse) for a couple of years and was finished out as a hotel. It is unlikely that another Hampton Inn will ever look like this particular design.

#49 Jeriat

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:13 AM

The hotel down in Austin that is posted above was not originally designed as a hotel. The hotel was finished out of the already completed shell of a failed condo project. The developers never had solid financing and started building without it at the time of the big crunch in or around 2008. The units were not selling, and the funding dried up. The shell set empty (shades of the old Intel shell in downtown Austin that got demolished finally for the new Federal courthouse) for a couple of years and was finished out as a hotel. It is unlikely that another Hampton Inn will ever look like this particular design.


Well I guess that explains the balconies...

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#50 Eauge

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:39 PM

You are correct the structure was not designed as a hotel hence the endless amount of headaches. It and the generator sat for years before the most recent work, shortly after work began the generator was gutted by thieves. The balconies are not part of the concrete structure they were added later.





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