49 replies to this topic

[johnfwd]

Mayor Price remarked about good news for Fort Worth to be announced this month.  I don't believe she had D.R. Horton in mind.

 

http://www.star-tele...le29596810.html

[Roger_H]

Even when they named the City Center Tower for them, I never really felt like D. R. Horton was a Fort Worth company. Still, sorry to see them leave.

 

There's a common theory that when you hear a company announce they are building a new headquarters, sell the stock. Past experiences with Radio Shack and Pier One would indicate there is something to that theory.

[Austin55]

Heh, I knew D.R. was a Fortune 500, but only barely, they are ranked 499. 

[johnfwd]

Even when they named the City Center Tower for them, I never really felt like D. R. Horton was a Fort Worth company. Still, sorry to see them leave.

 

There's a common theory that when you hear a company announce they are building a new headquarters, sell the stock. Past experiences with Radio Shack and Pier One would indicate there is something to that theory.

I noticed there are other comments in the Sundance Square thread, but I get your point about stock depreciation with similar headquarters relocations.  What I'm curious about is, why D.R. Horton would leave at a time when Sundance Square has attracted state, if not national, attention as a downtown showcase?  And why exit a high-rise tower having your name on it in a major downtown in order to re-locate to Arlington, a much smaller city and arguably a suburb?  I'm not knocking Arlington here.  I suppose D.R. Horton is wanting to be located equidistant geographically in the DFW Metroplex.

[johnfwd]

Heh, I knew D.R. was a Fortune 500, but only barely, they are ranked 499. 

Interesting.

[eastfwther]

Even when they named the City Center Tower for them, I never really felt like D. R. Horton was a Fort Worth company. Still, sorry to see them leave.
 
There's a common theory that when you hear a company announce they are building a new headquarters, sell the stock. Past experiences with Radio Shack and Pier One would indicate there is something to that theory.

I noticed there are other comments in the Sundance Square thread, but I get your point about stock depreciation with similar headquarters relocations.  What I'm curious about is, why D.R. Horton would leave at a time when Sundance Square has attracted state, if not national, attention as a downtown showcase?  And why exit a high-rise tower having your name on it in a major downtown in order to re-locate to Arlington, a much smaller city and arguably a suburb?  I'm not knocking Arlington here.  I suppose D.R. Horton is wanting to be located equidistant geographically in the DFW Metroplex.

I don't think Fort Worth or Sundance are considered big business destinations. And let's face it, none of our four skyscrapers are works of architectural art that wow people as soon as they hear your company is located in that building. I am surprised they went to Arlington. I heard they were looking at Cypress Waters in Irving. So at least they're still in Tarrant Couny.

[JBB]

This is all about money. Arlington gave them huge tax breaks.

[youngalum]

My understanding is the DR Horton will own the building and not just a lease, which is huge.

[Urbndwlr]

Notice the bit about the characteristics of the staff in the DR Horton office.  Was some mention suggesting that they are not unlike those in the GM Financial/ Americredit call center on I-20 in Arlington.  Sounds as though its the type of company that isnt competing for a lot of top level talent to fill its ranks but is rather highly focused on constantly reducing costs.  Its challenging to make Class A office space in downtowns work for companies like that. 

[cjyoung]

 

 

Even when they named the City Center Tower for them, I never really felt like D. R. Horton was a Fort Worth company. Still, sorry to see them leave.
 
There's a common theory that when you hear a company announce they are building a new headquarters, sell the stock. Past experiences with Radio Shack and Pier One would indicate there is something to that theory.

I noticed there are other comments in the Sundance Square thread, but I get your point about stock depreciation with similar headquarters relocations.  What I'm curious about is, why D.R. Horton would leave at a time when Sundance Square has attracted state, if not national, attention as a downtown showcase?  And why exit a high-rise tower having your name on it in a major downtown in order to re-locate to Arlington, a much smaller city and arguably a suburb?  I'm not knocking Arlington here.  I suppose D.R. Horton is wanting to be located equidistant geographically in the DFW Metroplex.

I don't think Fort Worth or Sundance are considered big business destinations. And let's face it, none of our four skyscrapers are works of architectural art that wow people as soon as they hear your company is located in that building. I am surprised they went to Arlington. I heard they were looking at Cypress Waters in Irving. So at least they're still in Tarrant Couny.

 

Hate to lose them, but I think magically Fort Worth will survive.

[RD Milhollin]

$5.5 Million GRANT from City of Arlington (tax-payer-money) to DR Horton to get them to move there.

 

http://www.star-tele...le30004827.html

 

I cringed when I read this... Horton is a very successful, i.e. profitable company that earns enough revenue and profit to do it's own decision making without being bribed using taxpayer money. Tax money for property, goods, or services that benefit the citizens in some discrete way is proper; transfers to corporations to relocate in your city is wrong, legal but wrong. On top of that, Horton, a leader in the development of urban "sprawl", is building a "sprawling" corporate campus on 6 acres. Too bad they could not have the foresight to fit themselves into a building that represents the sort of cutting-edge residences they are trying out, like in Portland

 

http://www.resources...m/docs/item4507

 

or San Diego

 

http://www.urbanhous...on-square.shtml  http://www.urbanhous...vard-west.shtml

[JBB]

Unfortunately, giving tax breaks to companies that don't need them is the way the game is played. Until all of these municipalities make a stand together, the lone wolf that breaks from the others is just going to miss out.

The optimist in me would like to think that Horton approached FW looking for breaks on this sprawling campus outside of downtown and they said "no". But the realist in me says they probably just picked up a deal from Arlington that they couldn't walk away from. Like I said in another thread, the new mayor campaigned on developing that area. I think this is an example of how aggressive he wants to be.

[Austin55]

Interesting that they had leased  about 160,000 sqft in the downtown Tower, and the new building is supposed to be 150,000.

 

What do we call D.R. Horton tower now? Will it be renamed back to City Center, or perhaps the next largest tenent?

[John T Roberts]

It will still be called the D.R. Horton Tower until they move out.  After that point, they may already have a lead tenant signed up.  If they do, the name will probably change to that lead tenant.  I

[johnfwd]

There appears to be some local political recrimination about losing D.R. Horton, as implied in this Fort Worth Business Press editorial.

 

 

http://www.fortworth...ef5036090a.html

[JBB]

Yeah, I hate that they're going, but I don't know that there was anything that could have been done to stop them. Sounds to me like it was a done-deal before anyone with the ability to do anything about it was aware.

[Urbndwlr]

Anyone notice how inexpensive the building cost was in Arlington?

Maybe is not an "all-in" price but if they complete it for that number it must be made out of styrofoam and bought the land for almost nothing.

[Austin55]

I've heard some murmuring that Bank of America is planning a move from 500 W. 7th to existing but soon to be former D.R. Horton Tower. They'll probably take over the naming rights, and build a street level space for customers.

[Jeriat]

Hopefully...

[David_H]

I've heard some murmuring that Bank of America is planning a move from 500 W. 7th to existing but soon to be former D.R. Horton Tower. They'll probably take over the naming rights, and build a street level space for customers.

I've heard the same thing.

The hair salon that currently faces Commerce Street is going to relocate to the other side of the building and BoA will have that space as part of their retail bank. I'm told the building will indeed be Bank of America Tower once Horton moves out.

[johnfwd]

 

I've heard some murmuring that Bank of America is planning a move from 500 W. 7th to existing but soon to be former D.R. Horton Tower. They'll probably take over the naming rights, and build a street level space for customers.

I've heard the same thing.

The hair salon that currently faces Commerce Street is going to relocate to the other side of the building and BoA will have that space as part of their retail bank. I'm told the building will indeed be Bank of America Tower once Horton moves out.

 

If it becomes Bank of America Tower it will join Frost Bank Tower.  This will be good for Fort Worth downtown's image regarding financial institutions.  For many years downtown Dallas has been notable as the region's financial center.  Maybe we can give Dallas some competition in this area.

[renamerusk]

If it becomes Bank of America Tower it will join Frost Bank Tower....

 

And so the prospect is that the two towers will now be known respectively as the: Wells Fargo and Bank of America Towers?

[Jeriat]

 

If it becomes Bank of America Tower it will join Frost Bank Tower....

 

And so the prospect is that the two towers will now be known respectively as the: Wells Fargo and Bank of America Towers?

 

 

New nickname: 

"The Bass Banks" 

[Dylan]

I'm thinking some people will start referring to the bass towers as "the bank towers" once the name changes.

[Mr_Brightside526]

Would it be too much to ask to build some restaurant space at the base of those towers? With all that space, you could have a killer patio and probably even build a nice glass facade to enclose some of it and compliment the structures base, no?

[rriojas71]

Would it be too much to ask to build some restaurant space at the base of those towers? With all that space, you could have a killer patio and probably even build a nice glass facade to enclose some of it and compliment the structures base, no?

I completely agree. The buildings are in a prominent location, but add little to the streetscape. I think, in some ways, that the lack of any form of retail/restaurant space contributes in making the area north of Sundance a ghost town. It's an anomaly that I can't seem to put my finger on.

[JBB]

I think that's a great idea. Grace managed to find a way to blend into the base of 777 Main, so I could see it happening in the City Center buildings.

[Not Sure]

For many years downtown Dallas has been notable as the region's financial center.  Maybe we can give Dallas some competition in this area.

 

 

Dallas has the Fed. Game, set, match. 

[renamerusk]

 

For many years downtown Dallas has been notable as the region's financial center.  Maybe we can give Dallas some competition in this area.

 

Dallas has the Fed. Game, set, match. 

 

 I don't follow your reasoning because I don't understand it in its entirety.  How does a Fed in Dallas preempt Fort Worth from being a financial center, all be it a smaller one?

[Not Sure]

I didn't mean to derail the thread with my little quip. johnfwd said, "Maybe we [Fort Worth] can give Dallas some competition in this area." Maybe, but the presence of one of the Federal Reserve Banks in Dallas says to me that major banking and financial activities will probably continue to take place in Dallas more so than in neighboring cities. It's the same dynamic that causes brokerage firms to be located on Wall Street near the exchange.

I'm not making some great argument here by the way (hence the little wink emoji), just an observation. It just seems obvious to me that Dallas will continue to lead in this area and by a large margin. And I'm fine with that.

I have never cared for the nouveau riche glittering riches aesthetic that permeates Dallas anyway. I think of Fort Worth as a classier, more subtle, restrained and nuanced city that doesn't always value style over substance. Let them have their banks. We have the arts!

[eastfwther]

I have never cared for the nouveau riche glittering riches aesthetic that permeates Dallas anyway. I think of Fort Worth as a classier, more subtle, restrained and nuanced city that doesn't always value style over substance. Let them have their banks. We have the arts!

Those financial institutions and the big buildings they're located in also brings lots of jobs to downtown Dallas; something that's still lacking in downtown Fort Worth, imo. I was in downtown Dallas before the holiday ( a new multi-level department store was having its opening)   and what's going on down there is pretty incredible.  At last count, 75% of jobs in DFW are on the
"Dallas side".  

[hannerhan]

I don't think the Fed has anything to do with it.  It's a matter of the will to be in Fort Worth overcoming the talent deficit here vs. Dallas. 

 

In the 1980's there was a tremendous amount of financial talent in Fort Worth relative to other cities in the area.  This was a direct result of the Bass family activities at that time, who hired lots of young superstar financial talent from New York and other places.  Richard Rainwater and the Bass circle of influence can still be felt today, but I feel like Fort Worth missed a serious opportunity in the 1990's when a lot of these people left town.  Many went back to New York after Rainwater became less active in the investing world.  Others started their own firms but later moved to Dallas (Carlson and HBK, two very large hedge funds now based in Dallas, were once in Fort Worth).  The hedge fund and private equity community are still alive in Fort Worth, but not to the extent that they could be.  Firms like this pay millions annually to lawyers, which is why the Dallas legal scene is also so much more robust in this area vs. Fort Worth. 

 

Going back to my original comment, you just have to see investors and funds with the WILL to be in Fort Worth.  If they plant a stake in the ground here, they can get the talent.  It's tougher vs. being in Dallas, but it can be done. 

[renamerusk]

.... It just seems obvious to me that Dallas will continue to lead in this area and by a large margin. And I'm fine with that....I have never cared for the nouveau riche glittering riches aesthetic that permeates Dallas anyway. I think of Fort Worth as a classier, more subtle, restrained and nuanced city that doesn't always value style over substance. Let them have their banks. We have the arts!

 

... It's a matter of the will to be in Fort Worth overcoming the talent deficit here vs. Dallas.....Going back to my original comment, you just have to see investors and funds with the WILL to be in Fort Worth.  If they plant a stake in the ground here, they can get the talent.  It's tougher vs. being in Dallas, but it can be done.

 

Obviously, Fort Worth has and is holding its on against pretty significant competition; all the while maintaining a particular style of life that keeps people living here even if commuting elsewhere is necessary.

 

Not sure and hannerhan, you make me feel proud.

[cjyoung]

 

 At last count, 75% of jobs in DFW are on the "Dallas side".  

 

According to who?

[renamerusk]

 

 

 At last count, 75% of jobs in DFW are on the "Dallas side".  

 

According to who?

 

 While I would certainly go along with your sentiment, cjyoung, I feel that it is fruitless to rate what makes either city better because personal tastes and reasons are all so subjective.  Both cities have much in common, one to a much greater degree in some areas and vice versa. 

 

Ultimately, its comes down to which style and environment that you are most comfortable with: boomtown or cowtown.

[John T Roberts]

I see this thread drifting off topic.

[eastfwther]

 

 

 

 At last count, 75% of jobs in DFW are on the "Dallas side".  

 

According to who?

 

 While I would certainly go along with your sentiment, cjyoung, I feel that it is fruitless to rate what makes either city better because personal tastes and reasons are all so subjective.  Both cities have much in common, one to a much greater degree in some areas and vice versa. 

 

Ultimately, its comes down to which style and environment that you are most comfortable with: boomtown or cowtown.

 

The Star Telegram and Dallas morning news...a story that ran a year or two ago.  If you read business news and see all the corporate relocations and expansions to Dallas, Plano, Richardson Irving, etc. , I don't think this has changed very much. 

[ramjet]

 

 

 

 

 At last count, 75% of jobs in DFW are on the "Dallas side".  

 

According to who?

 

 While I would certainly go along with your sentiment, cjyoung, I feel that it is fruitless to rate what makes either city better because personal tastes and reasons are all so subjective.  Both cities have much in common, one to a much greater degree in some areas and vice versa. 

 

Ultimately, its comes down to which style and environment that you are most comfortable with: boomtown or cowtown.

 

The Star Telegram and Dallas morning news...a story that ran a year or two ago.  If you read business news and see all the corporate relocations and expansions to Dallas, Plano, Richardson Irving, etc. , I don't think this has changed very much. 

 

 

According to the Department of Labor, the Fort Worth-Arlington Metropolitan Division accounts for 29% of the jobs and 33 % of the population in the Dallas Fort Worth Arlington MSA.  The Dallas Plano Irving Metropolitan Division accounts for 71% of the jobs in the Dallas Fort Worth Arlington MSA and 67% of the population.  See here:

 

http://www.bls.gov/r...asfortworth.htm

[cjyoung]

I see this thread drifting off topic.

My bad John.

[JBB]

I've heard some murmuring that Bank of America is planning a move from 500 W. 7th to existing but soon to be former D.R. Horton Tower. They'll probably take over the naming rights, and build a street level space for customers.

 

Quite prophetic:

 

Bank of America moving into DR Horton space, renaming building.

[Mr_Brightside526]

Oh no! There goes my conceptual ground floor restaurant space!  

[John T Roberts]

I looked at Sundance Square's website, as well.  They actually refer to the tower as Sundance Square Tower II.  This is the first time that I have officially seen the towers acknowledged as Sundance Square rather than their original names or the individual building names.  I guess the current building where Bank of America is located will revert back to 500 W. 7th, even though I never found out they changed that name to the Bank of America Building. 

[Austin55]

It will be very interesting to see how the bank branch OK the first floor extends towards the sidewalk.

[Jeriat]

I looked at Sundance Square's website, as well.  They actually refer to the tower as Sundance Square Tower II.  This is the first time that I have officially seen the towers acknowledged as Sundance Square rather than their original names or the individual building names.  I guess the current building where Bank of America is located will revert back to 500 W. 7th, even though I never found out they changed that name to the Bank of America Building. 

I don't think they ever did.

[John T Roberts]

Here's an article in Fort Worth Business about the changing downtown office market:

 

http://www.fortworth...3068cdd5bb.html

[JKC]

The BP should charge the brokers for these articles. The DR Horton Tower will remain the DR Horton Tower until later this year when it will become the Bank of America Tower.

[Austin55]

DRH moving out

https://t.co/s5IxCQ5NCK

[John T Roberts]

I noticed on Sundance Square's website from a little over a week ago, the building's name had officially been changed.  I will make that revision on our main website this weekend.

[renamerusk]

I noticed on Sundance Square's website from a little over a week ago, the building's name had officially been changed.  I will make that revision on our main website this weekend.

 

I know that one of the things tenants like is there name/logo prominently featured at the location(s) that they lease; but having to change the name of a building over and over again is maddening.  So glad that Continental Plaza will be known for now on as 777 Main - short and simple.

[John T Roberts]

The D.R. Horton Tower sign letters were removed today.

 

http://www.fortworth...b9cf9954bf.html