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Johnson County Rail/Transit

Burleson Cleburne Johnson County Rail Transit TOD

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#1 Jeriat

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 04:50 PM

I was just randomly surfing the net and saw this plan for two TOD's for Burleson... 

This is of course coming off of the plans for a commuter rail line from the ITC to Cleburne, who has their own ITC and I will post later. 

But I wanted to start by focusing on Burleson first. This is part of their TOD Study from 2012. If you haven't seen it, here's the PDF

 

Just some renders. Looks like they're also wanting to make their own transit center.

 

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#2 Askelon

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 08:50 PM

Confession time-My info states I live in SE-Northside Fort Worth. My mistake-That's where I'm from , not where I live. I reside 11 miles from Burleson, uh no, 4 miles from Bur,,,wait. Ok, Burleson has stopped annexing for a few minutes. I now share a property line with the Burleson City Limits ( guess I'm next.)    

 

The West TOD station is about 5 miles from my residence. Burleson Domained all property needed for this station, including public access, sometime within the last ten years. They are working on surface roads in that area with the traffic circle now complete. Still working on the Alsbury Road rail crossing and then it will be complete as well. That will leave only Hulen St to expand and eventually connect to the junction at McPherson ( somewhere along the path of old West Cleburne Road.)                                                                                    

 

BTW Jeriat, you have done beautiful work on the threads concerning this subject. I have desired Public rail transit in our hometown since I heard stories of the Interurban system from relatives. My heart broke when Little D to the East beat us to the punch.                                                                                                                            

 

In that vein, please continue to champion this cause.  Maybe it will happen in my grown children's lifetime.    Thanx.               


Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible. F. Zappa.


#3 Mr_Brightside526

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 02:09 PM

Here is more fuel to the Burleson economic development fire. A place to keep our eyes on.



#4 Jeriat

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 01:02 PM

I drove through their "Old Town" district last night and I gotta admit, I was a little impressed with what they had. I think this is the only suburb I know in this area that has a downtown area you can see from an Interstate...?

 


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#5 JBB

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 01:16 PM

Carrolton's downtown area is so close to I-35E that you can barely see it from the elevated freeway.



#6 Austin55

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 02:49 PM

Jeriat, are you talking about the original old town or the new construction around Scott ave?

 

I lived in Rendon (a Burleson address) for about 3 years and always enjoyed trips downtown. They've done some nice simple investments in the area that make it nice and pedestrian freindly, such as 



#7 Jeriat

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 04:47 PM

Jeriat, are you talking about the original old town or the new construction around Scott ave?

 

 

 

I thought it was all one thing.


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#8 John T Roberts

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 07:12 PM

The original "old town" was centered in the area immediately to the west of the railroad tracks.  The "new old town" is a new development just to the west of I-35W is centered around Scott St.



#9 Electricron

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 06:07 AM

Let's be realistic about seeing rail transit in Johnson County. Forget about raising the money to build it, let's just look at raising the money to maintain and operate it. To run trains in operations as much as Denton County, you're going to have to spend $14 million  every year. DCTA in FY 2016 budgeted spending $14 million on rail operations, and nearly $10 million on bus operations. They budgeted collecting $23 million in sales tax revenues, and collecting nearly $5 million in fares. 

DCTA only gets 1 cent of the 8,25 cents collected on every dollar spent. To collect $23 million in sales taxes, it requires a population over 753,000.

 

Johnson County latest population estimating is over 157,000. Therefore sales taxes from Johnson County should be around 21% of what's collected in Denton County. That $23 million should be nearer $5 million. And $5 million isn't even going to finance a good bus system - far less of what is needed to fund a good train. 

 

All the talk about running trains to Johnson County over BNSF or UP tracks is just talk, i.e. hot air.The idea that Fort Worth will pitch in millions of dollars every year to run trains to Cleburne is foolish, because Fort Worth will rather spend that much money on itself. I realize planners are always looking at ways to reduce the number of cars and trucks on our highways for various reasons, so trains always arise from them. But it is just an exercise to them, because the money isn't there to sustain it. 



#10 Jeriat

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 10:45 AM

Let's be realistic about seeing rail transit in Johnson County. Forget about raising the money to build it, let's just look at raising the money to maintain and operate it. To run trains in operations as much as Denton County, you're going to have to spend $14 million  every year. DCTA in FY 2016 budgeted spending $14 million on rail operations, and nearly $10 million on bus operations. They budgeted collecting $23 million in sales tax revenues, and collecting nearly $5 million in fares. 
DCTA only gets 1 cent of the 8,25 cents collected on every dollar spent. To collect $23 million in sales taxes, it requires a population over 753,000.
 
Johnson County latest population estimating is over 157,000. Therefore sales taxes from Johnson County should be around 21% of what's collected in Denton County. That $23 million should be nearer $5 million. And $5 million isn't even going to finance a good bus system - far less of what is needed to fund a good train. 
 
All the talk about running trains to Johnson County over BNSF or UP tracks is just talk, i.e. hot air.The idea that Fort Worth will pitch in millions of dollars every year to run trains to Cleburne is foolish, because Fort Worth will rather spend that much money on itself. I realize planners are always looking at ways to reduce the number of cars and trucks on our highways for various reasons, so trains always arise from them. But it is just an exercise to them, because the money isn't there to sustain it.

My short answer to all you've posted, respectfully:

You're talking about now... I'm talking potential future connectivity.

Of course there won't be anything going down there any time in the near future. But who's to say it won't happen, say... 15-20 years from now?

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#11 JBB

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 11:24 AM

That's some interesting perspective. Expecting anything in 15-20 years is still a pipe dream. Even if Johnson County started growing at the same rate Denton County has since the 2000 census, it would still take more than 70 years to add 500k residents.

#12 renamerusk

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 09:05 PM

My short answer to all you've posted, respectfully:    You're talking about now... I'm talking potential future connectivity.....Of course there won't be anything going down there any time in the near future. But who's to say it won't happen, say... 15-20 years from now?

 

 Better to disregard the naysayers!

 

 Johnson County/Burleson is demonstrating a forward looking approach to the future needs of its residents and planning for its future; and it can draw upon a history for evidence.  There was a time when the population of North Texas was a fraction of what it is today; and yet there existed a rail network, The Interurban, that connected the cities in Johnson County to Fort Worth and beyond.

 

Burleson should be commended.



#13 Dylan

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:08 PM

Let's be realistic about seeing rail transit in Johnson County. Forget about raising the money to build it, let's just look at raising the money to maintain and operate it. To run trains in operations as much as Denton County, you're going to have to spend $14 million  every year. DCTA in FY 2016 budgeted spending $14 million on rail operations, and nearly $10 million on bus operations. They budgeted collecting $23 million in sales tax revenues, and collecting nearly $5 million in fares. 

DCTA only gets 1 cent of the 8,25 cents collected on every dollar spent. To collect $23 million in sales taxes, it requires a population over 753,000.

 

Johnson County latest population estimating is over 157,000. Therefore sales taxes from Johnson County should be around 21% of what's collected in Denton County. That $23 million should be nearer $5 million. And $5 million isn't even going to finance a good bus system - far less of what is needed to fund a good train. 

 

All the talk about running trains to Johnson County over BNSF or UP tracks is just talk, i.e. hot air.The idea that Fort Worth will pitch in millions of dollars every year to run trains to Cleburne is foolish, because Fort Worth will rather spend that much money on itself. I realize planners are always looking at ways to reduce the number of cars and trucks on our highways for various reasons, so trains always arise from them. But it is just an exercise to them, because the money isn't there to sustain it. 

 

Denton County does not contribute sales tax revenue to transit.

 

DCTA receives sales tax revenue from the cities of Denton (128,000), Lewisville (103,000), and Highland Village (16,000). The population of those three cities combined is roughly 247,000.

 

Also, DCTA receives a half-cent sales tax from member cities, not a full cent.


-Dylan


#14 Austin55

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:15 PM

NCTCOG plans don't usually mean that much, but this article makes a Burleson line sound like it has a very real chance of happening. 

 

https://www.burleson...er-rail-service



#15 Dylan

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 11:44 PM

Sounds like this would be a rush-hour only service on existing freight tracks (no replacing track).

 

Pro: This line would be fairly cheap and easy to build (pretty much only stations).

 

Con: If this service is limited to rush hours (perhaps due to freight traffic), ridership will be poor.


-Dylan


#16 Austin55

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 12:10 AM

Sounds like this would be a rush-hour only service on existing freight tracks (no replacing track).
 
Pro: This line would be fairly cheap and easy to build (pretty much only stations).
 
Con: If this service is limited to rush hours (perhaps due to freight traffic), ridership will be poor.


If Burleson only builds one station, would there even be more than just that one until the ITC? That line runs north Just East of JPS, perhaps a good spot for a station too.

#17 txbornviking

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 08:23 AM

I do think a series of stations from the ITC - JPS - La Gran Plaza - Altamesa/Alcon - Old Town Burleson could be interesting



#18 JBB

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 10:24 AM

Even if this is limited to rush hour service, I would think that using the existing freight tracks would be problematic. The freight service would still take priority and reliability would be a big problem given that delays for the passenger service are not just likely but inevitable.

#19 Austin55

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 12:55 PM

Here is the an old COG proposal. It seems to share the TEXRail line then take the tracks along Biddison Eastward until it reaches another set and runs south.

 

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Also, recent comments from Burleson Mayor Ken Shetter on Twitter replying to txbornviking, 

 

 

 City of Burleson has been on the frontlines of working for comprehensive commuter rail for The region. I’ve inquired about the possibly of a pilot project connecting City of Burleson to commuter rail.  I’m all in!

https://twitter.com/...795522997760002



#20 txbornviking

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 01:49 PM

Here is the an old COG proposal. It seems to share the TEXRail line then take the tracks along Biddison Eastward until it reaches another set and runs south.

 

DlEHt2I.png

 

Also, recent comments from Burleson Mayor Ken Shetter on Twitter replying to txbornviking, 

 

 

 City of Burleson has been on the frontlines of working for comprehensive commuter rail for The region. I’ve inquired about the possibly of a pilot project connecting City of Burleson to commuter rail.  I’m all in!

https://twitter.com/...795522997760002

 

as they say, the devil will be in the details.

 

That "ROW" certainly doesn't seem to have as ideal of a stop for Burleson, but would allow for Joshua and Clebure to be included.

 

The line just a tad east of that one not only runs into Old Town Burleson, but it also runs directly adjacent to La Gran Plaza, and JPS, and would be a "short-ish" walk from Texas Health Huguley Hospital



#21 renamerusk

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 02:28 PM

See, the Mayor of Burleson; thanks for posting.

 

When we post on the Forum, it reaches up to those with power.  :)



#22 Jeriat

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 12:58 PM

I know it's been more than 2 years and it more than likely doesn't matter now, but should I have put this thread in the Transportation sub-forum?


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#23 johnfwd

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 10:11 AM

I can understand the COG's planning strategy with respect to rail service from Fort Worth to Cleburne, with stations at Burleson and Joshua.  Aside from arguments over the ROW details, I'm thinking COG is basing the need for this alternative means of mass transit on market demand data drawn from Chisholm Trail Parkway and I-35 traffic data.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Burleson, Cleburne, Johnson County, Rail, Transit, TOD

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