161 replies to this topic

[gdvanc]

Apparently someone voted in this topic's poll today as it has bumped up the list. I didn't recognize that at first and thought the Kennedy column quoted (in its entirity) in the previous post was new and wondered why he was writing about this now. I'm slow on the uptake, I know.

So here we are a couple months shy of 4 years after the last post.

Has anyone's opinion changed about the site plan - or the overall development? (whether or not you expressed that opinion here)

Does anyone feel smugly justified in saying, "I told you so" about anything that has happened since?

For my part, my opinion hasn't really changed. Of course, I'm fairly stubborn that way.

I'm relieved that there hasn't been a flood of other suburban developments in the wake of this one as I feared there might be. I did say that there would be urban development on 7th as well and I'm certainly glad that is coming to pass.

My oldest son, whose interest in urban living was ironically piqued in part by this development, did comment that they should have put more buildings where all the parking was. Attaboy! Maybe that will happen one of these days.

[djold1]

I just happened to cruise by and noticed the so-called "Poll"

I don't know how the questions could have been worse or how you could make the results, whatever they are more irrelevant.

The last question is totally biased and offers no other reasons to not like the project other than "surburban". Thiis word, like another not-so-subliminal word like "sprawl" is an immdiate negative trigger to stackers and packers.

And having an explanatory option for the first question without having one for the second is totally useless. In fact any kind of explanation biases a poll.

Any results should be read as as a hopefully well intentioned, but hopelessly biased result.

[gdvanc]

Pete, it's true that the poll questions as given don't include all options. You can dislike the site plan for reasons other than its sub-urbanity. You can also like it but still think it is too suburban.

However, when the poll was added to the thread (after the thread was copied here from the old forum), there were already 60+ posts; I believe the poll options selected were a spur-of-the-moment reflection of the opinions that had already been expressed. By then, those who had expressed opposition to the project's site plan had pretty much unanimously given it's suburban features as the reason while those who liked it may have had any number of reasons for feeling that way. (I don't think anyone liked it because it was suburban.) I think some people did actually point out that the option they selected didn't perfectly capture their opinion and they took the time to explain in their post. Fair enough.

That's just a guess. I haven't looked back over the whole topic.

[djold1]

This isn't really worth pushing too far but when I was in school taking courses on this in the broadcast curriculm it was made very plain that the best most accurate "poll" is simply a yes/no kind of device. The questions asked tend to biase the respondee so they must be carefully crafted.

Otherwise you are going to get just a useless mish-mash. That is why so many of the political polls have been criticised for their direct or indirect bias factors even if they were conducted by presumably independent organizations.

[John T Roberts]

The original thread is five years old and I added the poll after the topic was transferred to this forum. I will admit that the questions were not phrased properly and should have been "I like it (please explain below" and I don't like it (please explain below). These questions did reflect the sentiment expressed previously throughout that thread. I guess difficulty in crafting a poll is the reason why polls are not very popular on this board. However, I do think they are a nifty feature.

[djold1]

Again..not to push this too far..

Polls may be nifty, but they presumably are an attempt to get a reasonably good sampling of public opinion about a subject. Otherwise why do them?

Polls on Forums generally are not worth the time to look at them, IMHO.

If the question has a "please explain" afer it, then not one of the individual answers will have any relevance to any of the others. And if the explanatory statement is readable by other members, it will tend to bias their responses.

In addition, this kind of poll really must have a "no opinion" option as well, because in almost all cases that is a valid response.

I suggest that if we really have to have "polls" then the questions are simply:

A. I like it
B. No opinion
C. I don't like it

Some pollsters will tell you that jsut the order in which the possible responses are listed (as above) may also throw a bias into the process.

While this kind of simple "poll" doesn't tell us why the responder has this opinion it will still give the most consistent and useful responses.

Assuming of course that the intial explanation or caption of the "poll" does not itself throw bias into the process...

Enuf...

[gdvanc]

Again..not to push this too far..

too late :)

Polls may be nifty, but they presumably are an attempt to get a reasonably good sampling of public opinion about a subject. Otherwise why do them?

For fun.

Your points about the accuracy of forum polls are valid. Really, you can't have a poll on a forum that represents broader public opinion anyway because forum members aren't a random sample of the larger population. It's nigh impossible to design a really good unbiased and meaningful poll. Of course, there's a lot of money to be made in designing them in a way to subtly get the results someone wants.

Few people take these forum polls seriously. I can't imagine that anyone looks at the results as deeply meaningful. They're not meant to be rigorous; they are just another way to encourage people to express their opinion. These polls are little more than a party game.

Enuf...

Agreed.

[txsloth]

On topic-- While I detest the strip mall aspect of this project, and the majority of the tenants it has attracted, I must say we've become very spoiled by having the Super Target so close. I don't know if an anchor like that would've signed on to a more urban project. I just with we could bulldoze the dollar tree etc and put in a park I dunno, maybe we just consider this project the necessary evil needed to help the rest of the "cool" 7th St. projects thrive (I'm distinguishing the strip mall from the actual Montomery building stuff--I think overall what has happened in the old building is pretty cool).

[Sam Stone]

I think that the good urban style development that's happening on the other side of 7th and over at Museum Place pretty well illustrates "what could have been" with Montgomery Plaza.

[AdamB]

I think that the good urban style development that's happening on the other side of 7th and over at Museum Place pretty well illustrates "what could have been" with Montgomery Plaza.

Well... you have to crawl before you can walk. In hindsight, I am very pleased with how 7th street is shaping up. I do dislike the strip center behind MP but I can see the skyrocketing property values in that area leading to better uses. Like I said 4 years ago... I think the strip mall component has a limited shelf life (maybe 15 years) After TRV is completed and 7th is up and running with train service and light rail service, I think some of those buildings will start to come down.

[John T Roberts]

AdamB, you are probably right. After some period of time, a newer and more urban redevelopment could take place in the current parking lot.

[rriojas71]

Not sure where to put this but I think this is the best spot.

I havent driven through Montgomery Plaza in a while and I just noticed that the restaurant spot that has been a problem maintaining a restaurant has been turned into 2 smaller restaurants.

One is called Bourbon Street Oyster Bar and the other which I believe recently opened is called Barrel & Bones Smokehouse. I think splitting the space into 2 separate space was a good idea. Hopefully the same thing will be said about both of these new spots.

Here is a link I discovered. https://www.star-tel...e214691420.html