How about we discuss why user's posts are deleted? That would be an interesting subject. Apparently my teachers at Paschal failed to tell me that the term 'white trash', as in 'White Trash Settlement', was in some way offensive. This is a term my father and his father, both Fort Worth natives and business owners, as am I, have used for years. It's amazing to find out that this board is edited to that extent. Makes me wonder what else has been said by other members that has been canned? Also makes me wonder why someone can't run a truely honest and open message board? Because when it comes down to it, someone who is not Anglo may find the term 'white' in the name 'White Settlement' just as offensive as the term 'white trash' in the name 'White Trash Settlement'. I guess this shows who is running the board and where their views stand. Interesting to know.
9 replies to this topic
#2
gdvanc
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 01:22 AM
I should probably move this to its own thread but I'm tired and have to get up soon for a 7:45 meeting in Westlake so I'll respond in place.
Very well. It never hurts to go over these things so we're all clear.
If a user's post is deleted, it would be because it violated the Boad Guidelines and Rules. You can find them here. I believe there is also a link to them at the top of every page in the forum.
I recommend reading them. If you have questions about them, feel free to ask. I'm sure most any reasonable person here would be willing and able to explain them.
Well, let's not rashly blame your teachers. There could be other factors. Perhaps the fact that your father and grandfather used them desensitized you to their nature.
Sometimes its possible to tell these things intuitively. I can think of a number of terms which I can't bring myself to write that even someone with average intelligence like myself can recognize as hateful without having been told so. In this case, for instance, the word "trash" might be telling.
For the record, in case I was missing an interpretation of the term that connoted something more flattering than its common usage, I looked up the definition of "white trash" in several dictionaries. Let's see... We have "... a disparaging term...", "...an offensive term...", and "...a pejorative term...". I didn't bother to check for alternative definitions of 'disparaging', 'offensive', or 'pejorative', but I'm reasonably comfortable that they almost always mean something negative.
Assuming I haven't missed anything, it looks like that term might run afoul of the following item from the previously mentioned Board Guidelines and Rules:
9. Civic pride is one of the greatest assets of any community until degraded into petty ridicule of other communities. We will not be host to the mischievous degradation of any community. City by city comparisons are inevitable and often can provide insights to possible civic improvements. All forum members must be sensitive that these comparisons do not become an unproductive competition trying to tarnish another community.
Likewise, pursuing a similarly divisive approach with any topic will not be permitted. A healthy debate is always welcome, but decorum is a requirement. Bashing of other cities, particularly Dallas, is not allowed and may result in an immediate ban.
Actually, it's hardly edited at all. Most of us seem to have little trouble expressing our views without being overly derogatory. Clearly there will occasionally be exceptions.
I've only seen a few posts that were deleted since I began frequenting this forum six years ago or so. Those needed to be deleted. (Come to think of it, one of those may have involved White Settlement...)
It's quite possible that others were deleted without my knowledge as John does try not to embarrass the offender publicly. What a shame. Fortunately, sometimes they do it to themselves.
We want our discussions to be open but we also want them to be constructive. Sometimes there's a tension between these goals. A free-for-all can degenerate into unconstructive chaos that could ultimately drive away our most thoughtul members.
Of course, there is also a risk of driving away members when we find it necessary to delete or edit posts. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm certainly willing to take that risk.
If you prefer completely unmoderated discussion, it's hardly any work at all to set up your own forum. In fact, I encourage you to do so. You should find it quite rewarding and educational. Let us know when it's up.
Perhaps some do, but it would be fairly difficult to discuss that topic without mentioning the name of the city. One can, however, discuss it without demeaning its citizens.
It certainly does! It shows that it is being run by someone that has to make sometimes difficult choices about where to draw the line in our discussions. I can tell you that he does not enjoy having to make that decision, but ultimately this is his baby and he will do what he thinks is best for the ongoing success of the forum. Deciding when someone has gone too far is sometimes a judgement call and we don't always agree on when that has happened. As the forum has received more attention, he has rightfully found it necessary to be more vigilant.
QUOTE(1849 @ Nov 10 2005, 11:39 PM) 
How about we discuss why user's posts are deleted? That would be an interesting subject.
Very well. It never hurts to go over these things so we're all clear.
If a user's post is deleted, it would be because it violated the Boad Guidelines and Rules. You can find them here. I believe there is also a link to them at the top of every page in the forum.
I recommend reading them. If you have questions about them, feel free to ask. I'm sure most any reasonable person here would be willing and able to explain them.
QUOTE(1849 @ Nov 10 2005, 11:39 PM)
Apparently my teachers at Paschal failed to tell me that the term 'white trash', as in 'White Trash Settlement', was in some way offensive. This is a term my father and his father, both Fort Worth natives and business owners, as am I, have used for years.
Well, let's not rashly blame your teachers. There could be other factors. Perhaps the fact that your father and grandfather used them desensitized you to their nature.
Sometimes its possible to tell these things intuitively. I can think of a number of terms which I can't bring myself to write that even someone with average intelligence like myself can recognize as hateful without having been told so. In this case, for instance, the word "trash" might be telling.
For the record, in case I was missing an interpretation of the term that connoted something more flattering than its common usage, I looked up the definition of "white trash" in several dictionaries. Let's see... We have "... a disparaging term...", "...an offensive term...", and "...a pejorative term...". I didn't bother to check for alternative definitions of 'disparaging', 'offensive', or 'pejorative', but I'm reasonably comfortable that they almost always mean something negative.
Assuming I haven't missed anything, it looks like that term might run afoul of the following item from the previously mentioned Board Guidelines and Rules:
9. Civic pride is one of the greatest assets of any community until degraded into petty ridicule of other communities. We will not be host to the mischievous degradation of any community. City by city comparisons are inevitable and often can provide insights to possible civic improvements. All forum members must be sensitive that these comparisons do not become an unproductive competition trying to tarnish another community.
Likewise, pursuing a similarly divisive approach with any topic will not be permitted. A healthy debate is always welcome, but decorum is a requirement. Bashing of other cities, particularly Dallas, is not allowed and may result in an immediate ban.
QUOTE(1849 @ Nov 10 2005, 11:39 PM)
It's amazing to find out that this board is edited to that extent. Makes me wonder what else has been said by other members that has been canned?
Actually, it's hardly edited at all. Most of us seem to have little trouble expressing our views without being overly derogatory. Clearly there will occasionally be exceptions.
I've only seen a few posts that were deleted since I began frequenting this forum six years ago or so. Those needed to be deleted. (Come to think of it, one of those may have involved White Settlement...)
It's quite possible that others were deleted without my knowledge as John does try not to embarrass the offender publicly. What a shame. Fortunately, sometimes they do it to themselves.
QUOTE(1849 @ Nov 10 2005, 11:39 PM)
Also makes me wonder why someone can't run a truely honest and open message board?
We want our discussions to be open but we also want them to be constructive. Sometimes there's a tension between these goals. A free-for-all can degenerate into unconstructive chaos that could ultimately drive away our most thoughtul members.
Of course, there is also a risk of driving away members when we find it necessary to delete or edit posts. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm certainly willing to take that risk.
If you prefer completely unmoderated discussion, it's hardly any work at all to set up your own forum. In fact, I encourage you to do so. You should find it quite rewarding and educational. Let us know when it's up.
QUOTE(1849 @ Nov 10 2005, 11:39 PM)
Because when it comes down to it, someone who is not Anglo may find the term 'white' in the name 'White Settlement' just as offensive as the term 'white trash' in the name 'White Trash Settlement'.
Perhaps some do, but it would be fairly difficult to discuss that topic without mentioning the name of the city. One can, however, discuss it without demeaning its citizens.
QUOTE(1849 @ Nov 10 2005, 11:39 PM)
I guess this shows who is running the board and where their views stand. Interesting to know.
It certainly does! It shows that it is being run by someone that has to make sometimes difficult choices about where to draw the line in our discussions. I can tell you that he does not enjoy having to make that decision, but ultimately this is his baby and he will do what he thinks is best for the ongoing success of the forum. Deciding when someone has gone too far is sometimes a judgement call and we don't always agree on when that has happened. As the forum has received more attention, he has rightfully found it necessary to be more vigilant.
#3
tamtagon
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 06:44 AM
QUOTE(gdvanc @ Nov 11 2005, 02:22 AM)
I should probably move this to its own thread but I'm tired and have to get up soon for a 7:45 meeting in Westlake so I'll respond in place.
QUOTE(1849 @ Nov 10 2005, 11:39 PM)
How about we discuss why user's posts are deleted? That would be an interesting subject.
Very well. It never hurts to go over these things so we're all clear.
If a user's post is deleted, it would be because it violated the Boad Guidelines and Rules. You can find them here. I believe there is also a link to them at the top of every page in the forum.
9. Civic pride is one of the greatest assets of any community until degraded into petty ridicule of other communities. We will not be host to the mischievous degradation of any community. City by city comparisons are inevitable and often can provide insights to possible civic improvements. All forum members must be sensitive that these comparisons do not become an unproductive competition trying to tarnish another community.
Likewise, pursuing a similarly divisive approach with any topic will not be permitted. A healthy debate is always welcome, but decorum is a requirement. Bashing of other cities, particularly Dallas, is not allowed and may result in an immediate ban.
Those guidelines and rules are pretty clear.
#4
John T Roberts
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 07:04 AM
I am responsible for deleting the thread. I think Gdvanc said everything that I would have said. This does need to be split off into its own thread, but I'm going to be late for work, so I will have to leave it here for now.
#5
John T Roberts
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 12:17 PM
This topic has been split from its original discussion.
#6
ghughes
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 12:51 PM
QUOTE
difficult choices about where to draw the line in our discussions.
Quite true, and it goes to the intent of the owner. I think John and all the forum members do a great job of keeping the discussions at a fairly high level in terms of tone while still allowing controversy. For myself, having grown up in Nashville and having heard "white trash" as anything from a joke to a serious insult, I can appreciate wanting to keep from using it to disparage a city. On the other hand, since I don't take offense very easily, my sense is generally to let the jokes like that go. So I wouldn't have pulled it. But, if it were my forum, it probably would have degraded to a lower level on occasion too. So I'm fine with John's judgement on this.
#7
360texas
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 02:25 PM
Thanks for the 'House cleaning'.
Dave
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Visit 360texas.com
#8
WTx
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Posted 13 November 2005 - 11:10 PM
QUOTE
I think John and all the forum members do a great job of keeping the discussions at a fairly high level in terms of tone while still allowing controversy
QUOTE
We want our discussions to be open but we also want them to be constructive. Sometimes there's a tension between these goals. A free-for-all can degenerate into unconstructive chaos that could ultimately drive away our most thoughtul members.
QUOTE
But, if it were my forum, it probably would have degraded to a lower level on occasion too. So I'm fine with John's judgement on this.
IMO this board has some excellent members and the conversation is remarkably civil and intelligent. Those of us who visit other city related boards know the kind of rhetoric that can go on. I for one find the tone of this board to be at a high and professional level. This is John's board. John sets the tone and people generally know where the line is. When running a board like this you are often challenged by those who think they have the right to say anything undited. Not true. Decisions have to be made and I would much rather run off those who want to cause problems than those who want an good honest clean board. Thanks John for the work you do here and keep it up!!
#9
courtnie
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Posted 15 November 2005 - 09:18 AM
Here Here John..thanks for keeping it clean.... 
Looks great!
There is a line and a way to say anything with out offending someone... You can be mean in a nice polite way..you just have to know how.. 
Looks great!There is a line and a way to say anything with out offending someone...
You can be mean in a nice polite way..you just have to know how..
#10
safly
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Posted 16 November 2005 - 05:46 PM
Thanks for hindering my "right brain" mode John. And for improving on my "left brain" mode too. Appreciate it. 
COWTOWN! Get your TIP ON!
www.iheartfw.com
www.iheartfw.com
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