142 replies to this topic

[Doohickie]

What does "Fairmount" mean; is it an active verb?

I just mean instead of stark blocky details like the projecting concrete square balconies, that they should emulate details in the neighborhood, especially the adjacent buildings, which would make it more in step with the area. 

 

For instance, from the link PeopleAreStrange posted above,

 

Instead of the stark concrete cubes for the balconies on the front, they could have used something more similar to the white bump-out on the upper right, with a distinct roof instead of just a concrete slab, and fill in the space between balconies with patterned spaces similar to the spaces between the windows.  Maybe use concrete forms with details similar to the concrete details at the lower left.

 

 

...Or cover the balconies with arched details like those above.  I think the arches would work very well with the balconies at the east end of the south facade.

 

I think the building could be so much more interesting and in harmony with the neighboring buildings if they dressed up the starkly geometric details of the current concept.

[renamerusk]

I just mean instead of stark blocky details like the projecting concrete square balconies, that they should emulate details in the neighborhood, especially the adjacent buildings, which would make it more in step with the area........I think the building could be so much more interesting and in harmony with the neighboring buildings if they dressed up the starkly geometric details of the current concept.

 

 I do see the point that you are making; and so agree that it could be so much more interesting.   Nonetheless, it will be a great addition to the area.

[Austin55]

I'm just disappointed BBP didn't include Frost tower or the Vickery/S. Main buildings in their aerial render, both of which they are the architects of and both of which should be visible from that angle. 

[renamerusk]

PURPOSE

BOND’s primary business activities revolve around identifying projects in key target markets that are underserved by truly authentic lifestyle hospitality products. Lifestyle hospitality products are defined as projects that are architecturally significant, highly stylized and fully serviced. BOND has extensive experience and success with lifestyle hospitality management and development. This is the main focus of our business. - Bond Partners.

 

 

This might spur a new thread of its own, but it is hard to find another pair of cities within Texas that is as similar as Midland and Fort Worth are to one another.  It is this authenticity to the Texas lifestyle that BP cites in its purpose and wants to capitalize upon with the two Texas/Southwest projects it plans to develop.

 

No doubt the cowboy & western flavor of both cities seem to be worth something.  This project follows on the heels of the boutique hotel planned for the Cultural District, the Hotel Renovo, that will also have a cowboy and western hospitality product.

[Austin55]

Fairmount residents will have a meeting with the architects tomorrow

https://m.facebook.c...664402133685042

[johnfwd]

I have ventured into entertainment establishments along Magnolia Avenue for years past and understand the distinctive cultural and social quality of this and the Fairmount neighborhood.  But I also think, based on the artist rendering, that this will be a fashionable hotel.  If height is one of the neighborhood's objections, I would say that the building will add variety to the area, which is all-too-predominately one and two story structures.  Not to mention that hotels in Fort Worth as a whole (outside of downtown) are all-too-predominately of low profile.  What's wrong with tall buildings, anyway?  Seems like our city has a fetish against them.

[renamerusk]

I have ventured into entertainment establishments along Magnolia Avenue for years past and understand the distinctive cultural and social quality of this and the Fairmount neighborhood.....

 

Yes. Fairmount has the qualities that you cite; but I don't think that those qualities are in jeopardy with this hotel and agree with your assessment that it will be a fashionable hotel.

 

As a matter of fact, the hotel is not actually within the FHD.  The actual site lies along and above the northern side of Magnolia, in a segment bound by Rosedale to the north, Eighth Avenue to the west, Hemphill to the east with Magnolia providing the southern boundary of this segment.  As an additional fact, this designated segment has a number of development that are three, four and five stories in height. 

[Mr_Brightside526]

.... I know the architect is supposed to be one of the best in Fort Worth, but from personal experience I also know owners usually want the cheapest possible build for max. return....always a dilemma for architects.....

 

I agree with Zetna here, this project is at least 1 story too tall and the facade may be brick but those balconies are super minimalist, which to me equal cost savings.

 

They need to step up their game and "Fairmount" it.

[JBB]

What's wrong with tall buildings, anyway?  Seems like our city has a fetish against them.

 

Yes, the fetish is called "taller buildings will be built when market conditions make them (more) profitable".

[renamerusk]

I agree with Zetna here, this project is at least 1 story too tall....

 

 "And for the sake of reducing the project by one story,  the developer should reduce space and therefore reduce the profitability of the hotel".

 

 

 Six-story is the height of the Cassidy, Throckmorton at 4th.

[renamerusk]

I agree with Zetna here, this project is at least 1 story too tall...

 

 The third rendering for the proposed hotel published in the FWBP story shows the new hotel as it will stand relative to the near by buildings.  It does not appear that the new hotel will not overshadow any more or any less than does the Max Mehl Building.

[Doohickie]

 

I agree with Zetna here, this project is at least 1 story too tall....

 

  Six-story is the height of the Cassidy, Throckmorton at 4th.

 

 

While I personally don't have a problem with the height of the project, trying to allay concerns by comparing any project to downtown is not going to help.  The Southside is not downtown and I don't think at this point anyone really wants it to be.  I can see some taller buildings on the Southside, but I don't think people are ready for skyscrapers there, at least not yet.

[Austin55]

I watched the zoning case.

The owner of the development also has a majority stake in the Mehl building and the lots between the Mehl building and planned garage. Bond partners became interested in the area when the guys don't went to TCU.

The hotel's total height would be 78 feet.

The neighbors in the townhomes to the immediate east of the development were highly in support and very pleased with how cooperative the developers had been.

 

Some residents in opposition from Fairmount were unhappy about potential traffic, and having the garage not having enough spaces and worried about Henderson being narrowed (induced demand anyone?) and have outlets onto Henderson. There was some complaints that the design wasn't aesthetically compatible with the surrounding historic structures. There was also some worry about flooding. Some Fairmount residents requested an extension in the case. There seems to be some riff between Near South and Fairmount. 

 

Bennet addressed that the hotel follows all zoning codes and the developer needs it to be 6 floors, Henderson will not actually not be narrowed but the on street spaces will be removed. The basement of the garage could function as stormwater retention.  

 

On a side note- There are some members of the zoning commission agenda who seem to have no clue about urban design, it's embarrassing some of these folks have any power. 

[John T Roberts]

Austin, what was the outcome of the hearing?

[renamerusk]

 

 

I agree with Zetna here, this project is at least 1 story too tall....

 

  Six-story is the height of the Cassidy, Throckmorton at 4th.

 

While I personally don't have a problem with the height of the project, trying to allay concerns by comparing any project to downtown is not going to help.....

 

 In defense, finding a six story building to serve as a reference point was my goal and was challenging. Yes, I thought that I could be vulnerable citing the Cassidy as an example of a building in height equaling the proposed Magnolia Hotel (MH) as it is a mixed used residential/retail project as will be the MH. The new 6-story Tarrant County Civil Courts Building also provides a good reference.

 

Until the zoning meeting 12/15/16, it was unclear what the objections to the MH, but post #63 suggests that the legitimacy of much of the concerns is unfounded and have been and will be addressed.

 

Those residents and business north of Magnolia Avenue who are also the most directly impacted by MH are the most supportive.  They, like MH, are not within the Fairmount Historical District (FHD); while those who mostly oppose reside south of Magnolia and are within the FHD.

[Austin55]

It passed, with lawyer mumbo jumbo about elevations and materials.

[John T Roberts]

I think where the residents of Fairmount are coming from is that the hotel property actually touches the boudaries of the historic district.  Although not legally bound to respect the Max Mehl Building, the Schaefer Advertising Agency (Dunn Haven Apartments), and the buildings across Magnolia, which are in the Fairmount Historic District, it always helps to have a buffer between a tall building and one that is historic.  Look at the proposed Hilton Garden Inn sitting next to the Mt. Gilead Baptist Church in downtown.  There should be some offsets and set backs to respect the church instead of what is being built.  Also, look at Thistle Hill.  Even though there are streets between the grounds of the house and the recent additions to Cook Children's Hospital, those additions overwhelm the house.  Thistle Hill was not built as a small home.  It's 12,000 square feet make my 2,400 s.f. home seem rather small.

[John T Roberts]

This is to let everyone know that there are now two petitions that are being circulated.  One is in full support of the construction of the hotel and the other is against it. 

[renamerusk]

This is to let everyone know that there are now two petitions that are being circulated.  One is in full support of the construction of the hotel and the other is against it. 

 

For those opposing, what are their principle reason(s)?

[Doohickie]

 

This is to let everyone know that there are now two petitions that are being circulated.  One is in full support of the construction of the hotel and the other is against it. 

 

For those opposing, what are their principle reason(s)?

 

 

nimby

[renamerusk]

 

For those opposing, what are their principle reason(s)?

 

nimby

 

 But the hotel is actually "not in (their) back yard". 

 

So, reasonably, even though the petitioners have the perfect right to oppose the hotel, they don't have a persuasive argument because the hotel is located outside of their domain.  The case for constructing the new Medical Arts Building eventually approved when in fact MAB lies within the boundary of their domain will be a useful tool for the proponents to argue in a convincing way for the hotel in this case.

[Doohickie]

It's very close to Magnolia Green, which they consider their back yard.

 

But no, they don't have a compelling argument, at least not in my view.  But if they make enough noise they may be able to influence some of the building details to better fit in with the Magnolia streetscape.

[renamerusk]

It's very close to Magnolia Green, which they consider their back yard....But no, they don't have a compelling argument, at least not in my view.  But if they make enough noise they may be able to influence some of the building details to better fit in with the Magnolia streetscape.

 

They have a very broad view of their "backyard". 

 

Like you, I don't find their argument compelling. 

 

However, I would be interested in reading the opponents' reasons for opposing the hotel.  Until then, I prefer to wait before suggesting what I think is might be simple and win-win solution.

[Doohickie]

I think some people want to stop it from being built.  I think some people are more concerned with the style, but will say they oppose the whole project and use changes to the styling cues as a bargaining chip.

[Jimmy]

Here is the petition in support of the hotel: LINK

[John T Roberts]

Just so that we are fair to both sides, here is the petition against the hotel: LINK

[John T Roberts]

The FW Weekly has a story on the hotel and it's called "Looming Development".  Below is a link to the article:

 

https://www.fwweekly...ng-development/

[renamerusk]

The FW Weekly has a story on the hotel and it's called "Looming Development". .....

 

(1)Six-story building is a looming tower?... and (2)Increasing traffic? and (3)Shutting-off access to Downtown and hospitals for Fairmount residents?

 

[edited for clerical errors]

 

At 6-story, is it really possible for many of the residents within Fairmount HD (FHD), those living beyond Morphy Street and south, to actually see more than the top one or two floors of the hotel?

 

Is it really reasonable to fear that there will a sizeable increase in that originates from other parts of the city through the FHD? The probable increases in traffic flow should be anticipated to occur in additional traffic eastbound and westbound along Magnolia; and southbound along the Henderson, Adams and 5th Avenue sections that are north of Magnolia.

 

Traffic appears to flow seamlessly where there are already existing hotel properties in the City. The hotel operations are conducted with barely a hitch or noticeable interruptions (Omni,Worthington, Hilton). Should FHD be given special privileges and set precedent to have unlimited access v. functional access while other parts of the city, just not FHD,  will have to adjust to the reality of an increasingly residential and commercial urban mix?  It is factual and I believe obvious to a reasonable observer that (1)  8th Avenue and Hemphill provide major access to downtown from either side of FHD; and that (2)  there are any number of routes for the residents of Fairmount to take for getting to emergency facilities at either JPS or BSW.

 

This project is emblematic of how a quality, financially sustainable project should be developed.  My one regret is that Bennet, Benner Partners was not involved in the new stockyards hotel.

[JBB]

I gather an undertone of the Fairmont residents that oppose the hotel being upset because this happened (legally) without their blessing and without their input.

[Austin55]

Council approves zoning change,

http://www.fwtx.com/...rd-council-vote

[Doohickie]

Traffic appears to flow seamlessly where there are already existing hotel properties in the City. The hotel operations are conducted with barely a hitch or noticeable interruptions

I'm not against the size of the hotel per se, but you cite other hotels regarding traffic.  How many of those hotels are entirely fed by streets with only one lane in each direction? 

[renamerusk]

Fort Worth City Staff conducted a traffic study and the determination is that there was no foreseeable problems with traffic surrounding this particular hotel.  And I agree with their findings. 

 

If there is a potential for traffic to be more than supposition on the part of  FHD, it was crucial for FHD to explain convincingly why traffic would flow through FHD instead of flowing north along either of two major arterial corridors 8th Ave and Hemphill Street which already carry the majority of traffic in the area.

 

An idea that I believe would enhance and also control traffic immediately south of Magnolia would be to create 1/4 block plazas in 5th, Henderson and Adams with trees and planters that will allow pedestrians and cyclists to access the Magnolia Avenue corridor.

[Urbndwlr]

I say hats off to the development team and anyone else who has made it this far.  I understand it is very difficult to get an independent, boutique hotel financed, and Fort Worth has been really lacking in interesting hotel options for visitors for a really long time.   Traffic problem?  No way.  Possibly inspiring more regional and even national chains to come in and bid up rental rates?  Yes, that is possible, but hopefully more well funded local restaurateurs can step up and do more ambitious projects so the only players are not chains. 

 

I'm still astonished that the Cultural District does not have a hotel (or 6) like this.  It seems crazy that somehow a higher end boutique, leisure-oriented hotel has not yet arrived somewhere in the Cultural District. 

[renamerusk]

 

This is pretty much framed up and nearly done, so I'm a bit late, but here's a rendering of the final look. 
 

 
I think they did a decent job of making look like it fits into the area.

 

This kind of architecture is exactly what I was afraid of when it came to new development in the stockyards!.... They look like overblown suburban retail strip centers.

 

To Fairmount Historical District:

 

This is exactly what was prevented, a generic cookie-cutter hotel from happening to Magnolia Avenue District. You should be greatly relieved. Guidelines were in placed in the Near South that unfortunately were not in placed or followed in the Stockyard Area.

 

This rendering is now a reality - the stockyard hotel (motor inn) will open this week. 

 

Compare the two and then decide for yourself which of the two you would rather have for a neighbor.

[Austin55]

Couldn't help but notice the 3 main sponsors of this weekend's Open Streets event were Dolabi Partners, BBPTX, and the other development partner of the hotel. No one can say they aren't trying to be great neighbors. 

[Austin55]

BBP has some renderings on the page that I hadn't seen, including some views on how the garage/residences might look. Also mentioned is a small park/stormwater detention area which has an small amphitheater look to it. 

 

 

 

 

[Doohickie]

Hard to tell but it looks like they've already softened the looks of the balconies.

[Austin55]

Ground has broken. I'm a bit surprised, given all the opposition. For a while I was thinking this was DOA. Glad it's happening!

http://www.fwtx.com/...-near-southside

[txbornviking]

Ground has broken. I'm a bit surprised, given all the opposition. For a while I was thinking this was DOA. Glad it's happening!

http://www.fwtx.com/...-near-southside

 

Interesting too to see the project boast 15 condo units as well.

[Austin55]

Here's a video. The condos will face Oleander Walk, on the N side if garage.

https://youtu.be/arYQowLcutw

[Dylan]

That looks great! The buildings, the garage, and the park all look nice.

 

I'm glad they fixed the issue of the upper floors seemingly hanging over the sidewalks.

[JBB]

I think this will have a great impact on the area in the way of foot traffic and making it look and feel more urban.  I know it's not popular in the neighborhood, but I give the developers credit for pushing through with a project that will be huge for the Southside.

[Austin55]

Not to mention over 1,100 units of residences on either Magnolia or Oleander/Rosedale.

[renamerusk]

Accepting that my input is and will not be sought in the naming of the hotel, it might be fun to suggest some names for the yet to be named Magnolia Area Hotel. 

 

IMO, Magnolia Hotel should be off any list of consideration (Magnolia Hotels: Dallas -2; Houston - 1, Denver - 1 and  Omaha-1).

 

Ought to be up for consideration:  Oleander or Henderson.

 

What else and why?

[Doohickie]

Oleander Place?  Oleander Square?  The Oleander?

[Austin55]

Before the Monarch was the Monarch it was called "The Oleander" and now the new development is called "Oleander II"

[renamerusk]

Where and what is Oleander II?

 

A google search produced only three instances of the association of a hotel with the name of "Oleander".  One in Slovenia; one in Spain; and the only U.S. property was located in Galveston, Texas and property had a checkered past.

 

The Oleander Apartments aside, an Oleander+hotel search would generate a finding of "Fort Worth" at the top of the list in the hotel category.

[Austin55]

http://www.fortworth...232#entry110184

[Austin55]

Ground has broken. I'm a bit surprised, given all the opposition. For a while I was thinking this was DOA. Glad it's happening!

http://www.fwtx.com/...-near-southside

Soooo almost 9 months that after "groundbreaking", there is no sign of construction. Wonder what's up?

Ground has broken. I'm a bit surprised, given all the opposition. For a while I was thinking this was DOA. Glad it's happening!

http://www.fwtx.com/...-near-southside

Soooo almost 9 months that after "groundbreaking", there is no sign of construction. Wonder what's up?

[Jeriat]

...there was a "groundbreaking"?