Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Talbott-Wall House 915 Samuels Avenue


  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

#1 John S.

John S.

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 557 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Samuels Avenue FW

Posted 15 February 2011 - 09:54 PM

Hi Folks,

915 Samuels Avenue is not endangered nor at any risk from neglect. In fact, it's quite the contrary; it is among the best preserved homes on Samuels Avenue and even in the whole of Fort Worth. I was allowed to scan another copy of an actual period photo of this historic home from the early 1900's. For anyone familiar with this house, except for more vegetation and minor missing details (a couple of porch columns) the Dr. Richard Decatur Talbot house remains amazingly intact today since it was built in 1903. Dr. Talbot, (seen on porch) was an early practicing MD in Fort Worth who originally came from Ohio. He bought the generous lot this house sits on in 1897. It was built as a gambrel-roofed, Dutch Colonial Revival example which was quite stylish in the early 1900's. The home's foundation, which appears to be made of rusticated stone blocks, is actually man-made formed concrete blocks which were at the peak of their popularity when the house was built. This was parallel time-wise with the development of the Armour & Swift plants/Stockyards which also employed extensive decorative concrete in their construction. Since I have seen the interior of this house I can verify it is as intact and original as the exterior. It is a hidden historic Fort Worth architectural gem made all the more remarkable because it has remained in the same family since it was built. I'm not aware of any other historic home remaining on Samuels Avenue which can make that claim. Dr. Talbot and his wife were very close friends with William B. and Lula Garvey who lived at 769 Samuels (the Garvey home remains standing as well) Among the lore passed down is that the Garveys and the Talbots travelled together to see the 1904 World's Fair in St. Louis. There's another story that Lula Garvey was quite fond of the Talbot's daughter and she allowed the young lady to wear her flashy diamond earrings to a ball. A careful study of Samuels Avenue family social histories from that era reveals a lot of close neighborhood friendships and even inter-marriage among the leading families. There are no current issues with the house or property. I merely wanted to share the photo with some of our local history enthusiasts. (photo courtesy of Brooke Kelley)
5449820038_228e280691_z.jpg

Early 1900's photo of 915 Samuels



#2 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:29 PM

Is that the correct spelling? Most of the references I have seen are using "Talbott".

 

In any case, the stately tree in front of the house was removed today. There appears to be a moving permit posted on the front door. The vacant lot at 1102 Samuels had new survey marks today.


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#3 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 25 April 2017 - 05:37 AM

Andy, I have corrected the spelling on the title, but I have not fixed it within the post by John S.  I have confirmed that the correct spelling is "Talbott".

 

I guess with the move about ready to take place fairly quickly, I can't keep it a secret too much longer.  Since this is one of the "architectural gems" that was left on Samuels Avenue, Historic Fort Worth became involved around the first of February to work to save the house.  A few months earlier Embrey Partners announced an apartment complex that encompassed several acres of land from the 700 block of Samuels, 800 block of Bennett, and the 900 block of Samuels. As a part of those plans, they were to restore the Garvey House.  There are other threads on the new construction and the Garvey House.  Originally, we were on an extreme time frame to find a lot and move the house to a different location.  We have been under the gun on time, but it was extended due to the Corps of Engineers getting involved and through working with Embrey.  One of our Board Members purchased the only lot on Samuels where the house will fit and the organization has been working with all the parties involved to make sure the move happens.  It looks as if the move will occur next week.  HFW always likes to see a house restored in its original location, but when that can't happen, we will accept moving a structure to a new location in order to save and eventually restore it.

 

Like John S., I have also had the opportunity to tour the interior, and I can verify that it is intact.



#4 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 25 April 2017 - 06:38 AM

I also wanted to comment that many times when you hear about a house or a building being saved, Historic Fort Worth may not be actively involved, but we are often behind the scenes.  We either broker deals to save buildings, or we do look to see if it is something we can take on.  Sometimes, we even pass on these projects.  We are a non-profit and we do have limited resources, both financially and in manpower.



#5 hipolyte

hipolyte

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 434 posts
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 25 April 2017 - 07:32 PM

Nice work John.   :)



#6 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 28 April 2017 - 10:28 AM

This house is moving from two blocks away from my house to 2 lots away. It is very interesting to see the effort being taken to move it. I hope I am in town to see the actual move, but I will probably be working in West Texas. I will try to get some progress pictures to share. The trees around the house have been removed and it looks remarkably similar to the picture at the start of this thread. Minus the center left porch column. The destination lot has had some large tree stumps removed and has been leveled off.


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#7 John S.

John S.

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 557 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Samuels Avenue FW

Posted 01 May 2017 - 05:23 PM

My apologies about the Talbott surname spelling mistake from 2011. We've been out of state for the past week and I have not had time today to look at the steps being taken to prepare the Talbott-Wall House for its move. In the meantime, 905 Samuels and the two small turn of the last century cottages at the corner where Locust and Bennett intersects are being tented in plastic for hazardous materials remediation. I expect the next step to actually be demolition but I've heard no time mentioned for that to happen. I sincerely appreciate both the visible and behind the scenes efforts of Historic Fort Worth to reduce the number of historic home losses on Samuels Avenue.



#8 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 01 May 2017 - 10:02 PM

John S., that's OK about the misspelling.  I was guilty of that, as well.  Everything is starting to fall in place regarding the move of the house.  It appears that it will be moved next week.  That is really cutting it close, since I believe the deadline to get all three of the houses off of the site is May 15th.  With that being said, we knew that moving the Talbott-Wall House was the logical thing to do to save the most architecturally important of the three homes.  We earnestly tried to broker a deal for the white house at 915 Bennett.  For a while, it looked as if there was a 50/50 chance of the other parties following up with their offers, but over the last few weeks, that has fallen through.  As for the home in the 800 block of Bennett (the red one), we knew that it would be stretching our resources to save it.  We are also still working on getting the house at 1130 Washington relocated. (The Greathouse Residence) 

 

The developers of the Domain at the Bluff, Embrey Partners, have really been great to work with in trying to save as many of these homes as we could. 



#9 John S.

John S.

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 557 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Samuels Avenue FW

Posted 03 May 2017 - 09:45 AM

John,

I spoke to Jason Partain and Jason White as well as their site manager Brian from Embrey Development this morning about the on-going activity near the corner of Locust and Bennett streets. There was an unusual reveal that occurred as part of the current hazardous materials remediation-the original carriage house/barn was uncovered under the later stucco in the back of the Rominger House at 905 Samuels. After I called him, the former tenant of this structure came by to see it this morning and even though he had resided there for over 10 years, he never knew the old structure was encased under the stucco. I did take a couple of photos of it and will link to them in a couple of days. 915 Samuels, the Talbott-Wall House, now looks very similar to the early photo at the beginning of this thread. The effort to move the house north about two blocks should now proceed in earnest.

 

I do have a somewhat related question: at 915 Samuels there was a very old Spruce tree likely planted by Dr. Talbott around the time of his home's construction.(1903)  I noticed now it is completely gone. Also, behind the Rominger house at 905 Samuels are some very large, mature pecan trees...one in particular has a trunk width of two feet or greater, its relative straight, and has a harvestable timber section of about 15 feet that could be cut and using a portable sawmill type machine could be rough-sawn into usable wide Pecan wood planks. If anyone questions the practicality of such a harvest, please go by a hardwoods supplier and take note what their Pecan wood planks sell for. Afterwards, you'll realize there's a small fortune in Pecan wood available for harvesting if someone was set up to do so. Otherwise, it seems like a big waste of a relatively scarce and valuable wood resource. Just my two cents worth.



#10 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 03 May 2017 - 02:32 PM

I noticed the new foundation for the Talbott Wall has been staked at the vacant lot and a string line is mostly in place. It looks like they will be building forms soon (not sure how today's rain will affect the schedule).


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#11 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 03 May 2017 - 09:29 PM

John S., thank you for letting us know about all of the hidden items and about harvesting the Pecan wood.  In some ways, I wish there could have been a little more coordination between the parties involved, yet on the other hand, in order to save and move the house, the trees have to go.  Also, I'm not 100% sure if the trees weren't planned to be removed by Embrey's contractors for the construction of the apartments.  Embrey is planning to save the major trees on the site.  If I get up there before the house is moved, I will knock on your door.  I've been pretty busy this week, and I have been intending to see what was happening, but I haven't been able to make it.

 

Andy, things are beginning to fall into place. 



#12 John S.

John S.

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 557 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Samuels Avenue FW

Posted 04 May 2017 - 11:10 AM

John S., thank you for letting us know about all of the hidden items and about harvesting the Pecan wood.  In some ways, I wish there could have been a little more coordination between the parties involved, yet on the other hand, in order to save and move the house, the trees have to go.  Also, I'm not 100% sure if the trees weren't planned to be removed by Embrey's contractors for the construction of the apartments.  Embrey is planning to save the major trees on the site.  If I get up there before the house is moved, I will knock on your door.  I've been pretty busy this week, and I have been intending to see what was happening, but I haven't been able to make it.

 

Andy, things are beginning to fall into place. 

 

Thanks for your input, John. If anyone reading this post either has or knows of someone with the capability to harvest the large Pecan tree wood, the window of opportunity to do so is narrow, probably from now until May 15th. Any effort to recover the wood must be coordinated with the Embrey Development officials working onsite (such as Jason Partain, Jason White, or Brian) Embrey Development has been exemplary in being respectful and considerate towards us as this apartments project currently begins to ramp up. Now, if I could only somehow convince them that they need our property.... I did give Mr. Partain an impromptu tour of our 1889 home this morning and he said it should be worthy of saving and moving if we ever did sell the lot. In summary, John, I'd welcome speaking with you about current activities in the neighborhood if you happen to visit the neighborhood. I'll also post and link to a couple of photos concerning 905 and 915 Samuels soon.

 

There is one specific tree, designated as a "Heritage Oak" that is located behind one of the houses on Bennett Street. While the Developer's plan is to save it and retain it as a landscaping focal point in the new Apartments development,  if somehow it were threatened, I'd literally chain myself to the tree to save it and I'm decidedly not a tree-hugger type. But it is one of the few surviving huge Live Oak trees known to the very first settlers arriving in Fort Worth when the north end of Samuels Avenue itself was known from early maps as Live Oak Point. It would truly be a tragedy to lose any of these remaining living links to the origins of our City. I hope with the current and coming new development that these few surviving very large Live Oak trees (almost all are hundreds of years old)  will receive the public's respect and protection that they deserve. It's almost in the miracle category that the fabled Traders Oak tree remains alive at Traders Oak Park. (on the north end of Samuels Avenue on the east side of the street before Samuels dips down going towards the Stockyards.) The feeling of connecting with our history is almost palpable as you stand under the canopy of limbs from this direct living link to the earliest origins of our community.



#13 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 04 May 2017 - 09:20 PM

John S. the Heritage Oak is part of the reason that Historic Fort Worth chose to only try to salvage items from the house in the 800 block of Bennett.  Moving the house would have damaged the tree. 



#14 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 07 May 2017 - 07:22 PM

Forms were set Saturday morning.

formboard%205-6-17.jpg


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#15 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 07 May 2017 - 07:38 PM

Andy, it is looking good.  Progress is being made.



#16 John S.

John S.

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 557 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Samuels Avenue FW

Posted 08 May 2017 - 04:43 PM

Today, H.D, Snow moving company people showed up on the site of 915 Samuels I'll try to link to a couple of photos: (link upload feature is not working, sorry) https://www.flickr.c...57615591961865/   and 

https://www.flickr.c...57615591961865/

 They brought to the site some enormous steel beams and began putting them in place under the Talbott-Wall house. I asked one workman about the rusticated man-made concrete foundation blocks being taken out from the foundation and he said it was his understanding they were going with the house to be reused in the restoration of the structure. In the early 1900's trade magazines like The National Builder and Carpentry & Building were full of ads for home based businesses using metal molds they were selling so buyers could get into the concrete block business. . Entire concrete houses were built using these manufactured blocks.-I suspect one or more rusticated concrete block homes might still be extant in Fort Worth. I've seen a fair number of early 1900's concrete block houses in my travels which is a testament of their durability.

 

The hazardous materials removal crew finished their work on the two houses at the corner of Locust and Bennett Streets as well as the small 1960's "Crackerbox" type house in the middle of Bennett street. Today, they moved over to work on  the two garage apartments behind the Garvey House. Demolition company signs have been posted in front of the aforementioned houses so their days are truly numbered. One employee quipped: "after waiting seven months for construction work to begin, we are finally almost there." I too am ready to see something besides gutted houses awaiting demolition.



#17 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,255 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 08 May 2017 - 05:16 PM

34380907792_0f85b55ecb_z.jpg915 Samuels Talbott-Wall House by John S., on Flickr

34380907822_1bab67a57b_z.jpgCrew prepares for a move by John S., on Flickr
There's your embedded photos. I love this house. I'm so glad it's being saved.

#18 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 08 May 2017 - 07:09 PM

John S., thanks for posting the photos.  I guess the cat is just about entirely out of the bag, now.  Historic Fort Worth has been deeply involved in this process. (Yours truly, included.) We had the opportunity to save all three of the houses, the two on the corner of Locust and Bennett and the Talbott-Wall House.  We also knew that it was a long shot to save them all, since we have limited resources.  After touring the inside of all of the houses, we prioritized all three, with the Talbott-Wall House being the highest.  The house situated directly at the intersection, we deemed as the least important and the tree behind it had to be saved.  It was also in the roughest condition and it would be difficult to move the house without damaging the tree.  On the house to the northwest of Locust & Bennett, we brokered a deal for a third party to move and save the house.  Unfortunately, the deal fell through a few weeks ago.  It was kind of shaky to begin with, so I always put that house's chances at 50/50.  It is my understanding that everything that can be salvaged from both houses will be saved before they are demolished.

 

We did focus our attention on the Talbott-Wall House and through cooperation of multiple parties, it does look as if the house will be relocated soon to a lot at the corner of Samuels and Pavilion.  After the group from HFW went inside, we knew it was a project that we would like to take on, ourselves.  An entire committee is working on moving, saving, and getting the house on its new lot.  I guess I will have more later, but I also didn't say a whole lot about my involvement with the project because we pledged that we would do everything we could, to expedite the Domain at the Bluff project, yet save the houses.  I was also worried about the deal to move and save the Talbott-Wall House falling apart.



#19 John S.

John S.

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 557 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Samuels Avenue FW

Posted 09 May 2017 - 12:17 PM

Many thanks to JBB for posting the two photos I wanted to share regarding 915 Samuels, the Talbott-Wall House. Is there any Q & A section of the Forum which clearly explains how to link to photos so they will be displayed on these pages?

 

John, perhaps only a few here truly realize how much time (sitting in on many meetings between the Developer, the City, and the Corps of Engineers) and effort have been put into trying to save as many historic homes and resources as possible in the path of new development on Samuels Avenue, the oldest of Fort Worth neighborhoods. Saving the Talbott-Wall House (and giving it a promising future of being fully restored) as well as the Garvey House are the high points of this unlikely cooperative effort between a Developer and a local historic preservation organization. Such mutually beneficial alliances between developers and historic preservation organizations are quite rare from my experience.

 

Portland, Oregon, for example, is in the midst of an unprecedented development boom that has put severe pressure on the town's limited collection of historic homes. It was not unusual in recent years for late 19th or early 20th century cottages to be bought up and summarily demolished to clear the way for new development. This development driven tear-down phenomenon became so prevalent that the City of Portland enacted an ordinance requiring dismantlement and salvage of any structure dating from 1910 or earlier. (not sure it is still in place or not)

 

The former Rominger House at 905 Samuels-a Foursquare type house from the early 1900s-has been largely gutted by the former owners who were aware that demolition is its eventual fate. It's my understanding that the fine staircase was either sold or donated to an entity in the Stockyards. The small vinyl clad cottage (called the Stephen Terry House in the resources survey book) west of/or behind the Rominger House has been stripped bare inside as part of the hazardous materials remediation. The freshly revealed walls and ceilings are of shiplap boards (Joanna Gaines of HGTV's Fixer Upper show would love them) but the unpainted reclaimed door and window casings/trim are removed and sitting in a pile outside (they should be moved to a dry storage facility, ASAP)

Now, the small red vinyl clad cottage next door on Bennett Street is also bare inside. 2 x 4" Framing remains in place where the ceiling heights had been lowered from the original 12 feet height. (I need to share a photo I took but I won't post yet another Flickr link) However,  the original 6" wide beaded board ceilings remain. Also remaining are vertical full one inch thick by 12 or more inches wide dimensional rough sawn Southern Yellow pine planks. (unpainted) In this most economical of 19th century construction methods, (commonly called "Plank wall" construction) the vertical planks themselves function as the framing with full dimensional 2"x  Pine framing used only for the roof and foundation framework. From the square cut nails used to attach them, I expect that the structure has to date to 1890 or perhaps a decade earlier. I think this now safe from hazardous materials house should be or rather should have been dismantled rather than soon smashed into splinters but I'm keenly aware that the developer has demanding deadlines and timetables to be met. I expect that an experienced crew could dismantle the small house within a week or less and could reclaim scores of these very old wide Yellow Pine planks with exquisite old growth grain patterns. The foundation sills and joists are also of old growth Southern Yellow Pine all in full dimensional sizes. (Where's Brent Hull when you need him?) The house sits on Bois d'arc blocks in contact with the ground.  Bois d'arc blocks were commonly used in early Texas houses for foundation support due to that particular species being impervious to fungal rot and insect damage.

 

In any case, I feel that the salvaging part of this project could have been somewhat better coordinated but I would also expect that any additional work causing further delay would now be unacceptable. Time is money for projects of this kind; the funding for such multi-million dollar projects accrues interest daily so even one day's delay can amount to a substantial interest amount owed. All in all, I think that the developer for this project (Embrey Development) has been nearly exemplary in the way they have handled these sensitive on-site issues. My spouse and I appreciate the courteous and informative discussions they have shared with us in recent weeks. One of our biggest concerns was how would this project right next door to us impact our daily lives but I now feel less of a concern because of the consideration shown by the developer's reps and their contractors. (special thanks are due to Jason Partain, Embrey's project engineer) Thanks as well again goes to Historic Fort Worth, Inc. for taking quick action to save the historic resources that could be saved on these privately owned properties. "Win-Win" is an overused term but I think it is applicable here.



#20 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 09 May 2017 - 07:54 PM

John S., you may be right about the salvaging part of the process.  However, I will say that it has been a pleasurable experience working with Embrey on allowing us to save as much as we could, given the time limitations.  Although, I have been involved with this, it has been more behind the scenes, as I have a day job that takes precedence over volunteer work. 



#21 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 19 May 2017 - 12:04 PM

Historic Fort Worth, Inc. sent out an e-blast this morning about moving the house.  It is also posted on their Facebook page.

 

The Talbott-Wall House at 915 Samuels Avenue since 1903 is on the move.

 

In collaboration with Embrey Partners of San Antonio, apartment builders on the bluff side of Samuels Avenue and the entity restoring the Garvey-Viehl-Kelley House at 769 Samuels, HFW is moving this Dutch Colonial Revival house across the street and to the corner of Samuels Avenue and Pavilion.

Join us on Tuesday, May 23, at 9:00 a.m. for a glimpse of a building from the past on the move to its future.



#22 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:23 AM

I can't imagine that they are moving the house today with rain and storms in the area but I haven't had a chance to go by.


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#23 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:54 AM

Andy, I am not there right now because I took some time off to be there and I missed on the dates.  However, as I am writing this, the power lines are being lowered and everything is being prepared for the move.  I am going to run down there at lunch to see what is happening, and I do have my camera.



#24 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,900 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:07 AM

It has moved

 

https://twitter.com/...048130998677504



#25 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:10 AM

Austin, I was just going to post the same thing.



#26 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:51 AM

Hard hat and safety vest time. Need to go check my work.


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#27 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 23 May 2017 - 01:01 PM

Several of the Fort Worth Forum members were on the street today to watch the move.  I'm thankful that I had a chance to get down there during my lunch hour.  I took some photographs, and I will post them this evening.



#28 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 23 May 2017 - 08:27 PM

I would like to share with the forum a few pictures that I took from before and during the move.  The first photo was taken on May 7th.  It is one of the last photos of the house it its original location with the structure untouched.  The next day, H.D. Snow & Son, the house overs, started removing the rusticated concrete block below the floor to insert the steel beams to move the house.

34469492830_85412a22c3_h.jpgtalbott-wall by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

This photo was taken today when the house was in the middle of Samuels Avenue.

34012849174_7c8e2c7828_h.jpgtalbott-wall-move1 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

The last shot is when the house had been moved on to the new lot, but had not been placed directly over the foundation.

34855710045_86bbc3f6d9_h.jpgtalbott-wall-move2 by jtrobert, on Flickr

 

Also, Forum Members PPoole, AndyN, and John S. were there watching.  I asked them to pose for this photograph.

forummembers.jpg

 

District 9 City Councilwoman Ann Zadeh was present, along with the Executive Director of Historic Fort Worth, Jerre Tracy. 



#29 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,900 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tarrant

Posted 23 May 2017 - 08:38 PM

I am completely blown away that entire houses can be moved. Really hits you seeing that 2nd photo. 



#30 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,576 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 23 May 2017 - 08:40 PM

One very beautiful historic house! :wub:

 

What for and how can this house be used...as the backdrop to a wedding....as a stage for a reading or recital...etc?



#31 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:18 PM

Austin, there were times when the movers were beneath the house and the trailer when they were removing the large wood stops and when they were repositioning the wheels.  Some of my photographs show the movers actually beneath the trailer.  This same mover relocated Salsa Limon from University Drive over to White Settlement Road.

 

Renamerusk, at some point in the near future, Historic Fort Worth will sit down and discuss the next step. I will agree that it is a very beautiful and unique Victorian house.  That is why we decided to take this on ourselves, with a lot of help. 



#32 hipolyte

hipolyte

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 434 posts
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:44 PM

I was there at 9:00, but had to leave before the house became mobile.



#33 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:02 PM

I'm sure there were others who showed up during the move.  I think it took about four hours or longer.



#34 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 24 May 2017 - 12:25 AM

Omg. I didn't realize my bottom shirt button was undone. Lol. Next time, say, suck it in, tuck it in and button up.

Otherwise, John... what role do you think that the fort worth architectural forum played in saving this house?
Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#35 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 24 May 2017 - 05:14 AM

Andy, I usually notice details, but I did not notice, either.  As for your question, I'm not really sure.  I know that several of the forum members, individually, were actively involved in saving this house.  If it had not been for the individuals from the forum involved, I'm quite sure the deal would have fallen through.  There were too many pieces that had to fall into place in an exact order, and at the right time, for the move to have occurred.  Most of the forum members probably don't have any idea what some forum members actually did.  Everyone that worked on this project used their expertise and knowledge in doing their part of getting the house moved.  For the record, I want to say thank you to all of the forum members who had a part in this move.  All of the work was greatly appreciated. 

 

I will now get back to how the actual architectural forum played a role in saving this house.  I would think that some of the discussion on the board may have raised awareness of the area's history.  Our photographs probably showed others that the rich architectural heritage of the neighborhood was worthy of preservation. 



#36 rriojas71

rriojas71

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 529 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:24 AM

I'm sure there were others who showed up during the move.  I think it took about four hours or longer.


I was there for a bit, but I was on my way to work and they had yet to move the house so I watched a while a did a quick walk through some of the streets in the area. I didn't realize that several houses in Rock Island have been renovated. It's coming together nicely, albeit at a snail's pace.

#37 David_H

David_H

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 32 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 24 May 2017 - 03:43 PM

I was out of town yesterday so I didn't get to see any of the move. I drove by this morning on the way to work and saw the house sitting in the new lot, ready to be lowered into place. 

 

What a great project to save it - thanks, John and everyone else that was involved!



#38 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 24 May 2017 - 08:29 PM

I didn't get a chance to go by there after work today, but I'm sure I will have an opportunity to drive by over the weekend, if not sooner.  David_H, you are welcome.  It took a village to get that house moved.  There are so many people I would like to thank, as well.  If I try to list everyone, I'm sure I will leave someone out.  Maybe at some point, I will try.



#39 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:00 PM

I also wanted to say this is one great preservation victory.  The 180 day Demolition Delay had expired on the Talbott-Wall House in October, and the developer did not have to offer the home to Historic Fort Worth, Inc. to see if they could find a way to move the house to another location.  Embrey could have demolished it on day 181.  There were just several things that were working toward saving the house.  From what I understand, there were still tenants living inside, so they had a little while to find a new place to live and vacate the house.  Many years before, Historic Fort Worth, Inc. surveyed the neighborhood with the hopes of creating a historic district that would save the entire part that was still standing.  I participated in that survey, and we identified 5 houses that we decided were worthy of saving, at all costs.  One was the Garvey House, prioritized at #1.  The Talbott-Wall House was prioritized #2.  I will admit that I would rather have seen the house restored in its original location, but moving is the next alternative.  Several Board Members stepped up to the plate and individually helped this process along.  Even though there were a lot of bumps along the way, the chances of saving the house grew day by day.  We were successful in getting it relocated, and now the next step will be to put it permanently on its new foundation, and to decide the next step in the process.  Already in the works are methods to ensure that the home will be protected on its new site.



#40 Now in Denton

Now in Denton

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 955 posts
  • Location:Fort Worth Denton Co.Tx. The new Fort Worth

Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:27 AM

Thank you Mr. Roberts for your efforts. Well done. As someone who grew up on Samuels. and knowing the history of this neighborhood. Homes like this is what should be preserved. But new homes like this is what should of been built on the empty lots and around Nash elementary school. Not condos and apartments. Condos and apartments not historically accurate. But I know reality of developers and the bottom line. You get a bigger bang for your buck if you build apartments. Rather than build a single home and sale it. Even if it was a mansion. Who knows. Maybe in a hundred years they will tear down those condos and build real homes to reflect the history of the neighborhood ?



#41 John S.

John S.

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 557 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Samuels Avenue FW

Posted 25 May 2017 - 01:37 PM

In the many years I've been involved in historic preservation issues, moving the Talbott-Wall House is one of the most gratifying victories and saves to date. I too would like to add my personal thanks to the many individuals who helped take the Talbott-Wall House rescue plan to fruition. (By the way, John, I was told a potential buyer for the Talbott-Wall house is available but I'll PM you on that) John is correct in that back in the early 1990's the Texas Historical Commission's architectural historian, Tory Laughlin-Taylor, visited Samuels Avenue and she concluded there were too few surviving and contributing historic structures for a contiguous historic district on Samuels. Instead, she proposed there could have been individual property nominations for inclusion into the National Register of Historic Places. On the other hand, a number of prominent and long time neighborhood property owners were downright hostile towards any suggestion or plan made to preserve the historic character of Samuels Avenue. From this group of anti-preservation minded property owners, came the initial land sales to developers around 2003-2004. With that action, the present and future redevelopment path was established. The Recession years of the last decade merely provided a short reprieve, but now development city-wide is again in full swing. At this point, its unlikely that any plan, except a piecemeal approach, can guaranty the survival of the remaining historic homes on the west side of Samuels. Of course, hindsight is always 20/20 but from my personal observations two things presently stand out from which future lessons can be learned.

 

First, I believe that once the scope of a development project has been identified, those historic structures in the path of development should be proactively and thoroughly salvaged if moving them is not feasible. Workers removing historic/period elements were busy right up until sunset late yesterday trying to get salvage materials taken out of the two cottages near the intersection of Bennett and Locust streets. Some useful additional materials should have been salvaged prior to hazmat remediation such as posts/columns, period windows, doors, and period door hardware. Unpainted door and window casings/trim were removed by the hazmat workers and placed in a pile next to the white cottage, However,  later, before they could be reclaimed, they were scooped up and disappeared into dump trucks. I managed to salvage a few of these trim pieces but a better timed and carefully coordinated salvage plan should have been put into place. Certainly its a moot point now as both cottages were disintegrated within 30 minutes early this morning. Now their remains are on their way to a permanent home in the landfill.

 

Second, the last and largest (Post?) Oak tree was brought down a few minutes ago near the northwest corner of Samuels and Locust streets. A trench was excavated next to the large tree and after some of the larger limbs were dismembered, pressure by the huge excavator was put on the main trunk causing the century old Oak (probably older as it was larger than some of our trees which were growing when a circa 1910 photo was taken of our 1889 home. )  to topple to the ground with a loud crash. Some Cedar-Elm trees of dubious merit were marked and saved but both Live and Post/Pin Oaks trees were destroyed. I still maintain that if such mature trees must go, at the very least they should have been harvested for their hardwood lumber. (for firewood if nothing else) Quarter-sawn Oak boards cost a fortune these days if you can find any. But now that the largest Oak is down (a few other damaged Oak tree trunks have been pushed off to the sides) that too is no longer a relevant topic for discussion. Happily, the ancient Heritage Oak near Bennett street is being preserved and integrated into the apartment complex design.

Overall, I can't complain much because Embrey Development has more than met local requests to save what could be saved. The Garvey House is shrouded in plastic sheeting right now but like a butterfly emerging from its cocoon, the refreshed exterior should soon be a sight to see. 

 

Speaking of inspiring sights, the newly cleared views of downtown from the rise where Bennett and Morrison streets meet are nothing short of stunning. One can view the entire downtown skyline with the panoramic view ending on the northwest with the channel of the Trinity River. In the many years we've lived in the Samuels Avenue-Rock Island neighborhood, I wasn't aware such beautiful vistas existed.

Thanks again for everyone's efforts to help save one of our neighborhood's architectural gems. I also applaud Embrey Development for demonstrating that the goals of development and historic preservation are not always mutually exclusive.



#42 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 06 July 2017 - 09:46 AM

The Talbott-Wall House goes up before the Historic and Cultural Landmarks Commission on Monday, July 10th at 2:00 PM.  The property owner is asking for a designation as a Highly Significant Endangered Landmark.  However, the City's Historic Preservation Officer and his staff are recommending only designating as a Historic and Cultural Landmark.  I prepared this nomination that was submitted to the city and I'm currently working on the National Register nomination for the house.  Below is a link to the HCLC case:

 

http://fortworthtexa...b03677d883f.pdf



#43 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,576 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 07 July 2017 - 06:48 AM

....However, the City's Historic Preservation Officer and his staff are recommending only designating as a Historic and Cultural Landmark.....

 

 And why would HPO & staff want a lesser designation?  Does the higher designation prevent the commercialization of the the T-W House; and would this be their thinking?



#44 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 07 July 2017 - 07:51 AM

Several years back, the Preservation Ordinance (or the interpretation of it) was changed to require the applicant prove the property was endangered.  They are stating that since we moved the house, it is no longer endangered.  We also had to go back and do a Settings Analysis to prove that the setting of the house it its new location is the same as the setting of its old location.  The staff has made the determination that the new setting is similar, but diminished, from the old one.  The lot where the house was moved was the only vacant lot on Samuels Avenue large enough to relocate he house.  The higher level of the house does not prevent commercialization.  It actually provides five more years of tax credits from the city.  (10 years at HC designation, 15 years at HSE designation)



#45 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 07 July 2017 - 08:08 AM

This house just got set down in the middle of 13+ acres (at least 10 houses by my count) that are currently up for sale and prime candidates for demolition and redevelopment. I'd say that is moving from the fire into the frying pan.


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com

#46 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,255 posts
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 07 July 2017 - 08:34 AM

Fort Worth: Preservation Pioneers.



#47 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 07 July 2017 - 08:57 AM

Andy, I agree with you.  In my biased opinion, even though I wrote the Designation Nomination, the house is still endangered.  Here is why.  The HFW Board Member who owns the property plans to eventually sell it.  He and Historic Fort Worth are putting the local designation on the property to put a legal protection against demolition.  Even though I'm sure he will put deed restrictions on the property to ensure it will be protected from demolition permanently, just the designation alone would not stop a new property owner from applying to remove the designation.  Remember the Dillow House?  Also, a new owner on a house on Avondale sought to remove a historic designation on a house.  Since our current preservation staff indicates that we did not prove our case for Highly Significant Endangered, who is to say that a future staff or Landmarks Commission might vote to remove this designation several years down the line.  If that happened, the house would be in jeopardy again. 

 

An example of what can happen is the Massad House.  It was in the way of John Peter Smith Hospital's expansion when the house was sitting on Jennings (I think).  A local couple, the Massads, got involved with the house and found a way to relocate it to West 7th Street, now Museum Place.  When that development was started, they planned to demolish the house and again preservationists got involved and moved the house for a second time to Montgomery Street.  This shows that if you move a house to a "safe" location, a few years down the road, it may not be safe any longer. 



#48 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,576 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 07 July 2017 - 08:59 AM

....The higher level of the house does not prevent commercialization.  It actually provides five more years of tax credits from the city.  (10 years at HC designation, 15 years at HSE designation)

 

 

This house just got set down in the middle of 13+ acres (at least 10 houses by my count) that are currently up for sale and prime candidates for demolition and redevelopment. I'd say that is moving from the fire into the frying pan.

 

Aha! :glare: ... Devilish! :devil:



#49 John S.

John S.

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 557 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Samuels Avenue FW

Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:23 AM

This house just got set down in the middle of 13+ acres (at least 10 houses by my count) that are currently up for sale and prime candidates for demolition and redevelopment. I'd say that is moving from the fire into the frying pan.

Andy,

That is true but there are other factors to consider. First, all of those properties listed together with a commercial broker near the newly relocated Talbott-Wall House are decidedly premium priced compared to the prices received for sold properties on Samuels in the past. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe those 10 properties are in the $45 per square foot range, well above the levels paid and sought for other Samuels properties closer to downtown. Put another way, they are not priced for quick sale or could be considered bargains. That alone should keep future development and the prospects of becoming endangered again at bay, at least for a number of years. No matter what levels of development occur in the future on Samuels Avenue and Rock Island, I believe there will always be a number of properties where the risk of future development is low. For now, its appears the relocated Talbott-Wall house may have many useful years ahead, perhaps not always as a private residence but possibly as offices or some other compatible use. The first signs of Samuels/Rock Island redevelopment appeared around 2004 so it has taken well over a decade to reach its current levels. Apartments are being built around the downtown core at a dizzying pace right now with much of the future development to be focused around the TRV Panther Island area. At this point, I don't see the relocation of the Talbott-Wall house as being impermanent. The market for downtown apartments is finite and with everything now in the pipeline under construction amounting to thousands of units I think its probable for the pace to level off in the next few years. I have no crystal ball so we will have to see how everything plays out going forward. I have mixed feelings about the Embrey Development but I also believe it was necessary at some point to connect the redeveloped south end of the neighborhood with the undeveloped northern area and that is now happening.



#50 AndyN

AndyN

    Skyscraper Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midland, Tx. for now

Posted 07 July 2017 - 02:02 PM

JohnS, the total list I posted includes 2 properties on the east side of Samuels, one south and one east of the TW House. I think there might also be one in the court that is listed. Others in the court have considered listing their properties but are kind of waiting to see what happens to the others first.


Www.fortwortharchitecture.com




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users