42 replies to this topic

[John T Roberts]

The new owners of the former Fort Worth Town Center, now named La Gran Plaza de Fort Worth, are asking the City of Fort Worth for $22 Million in tax incentives. They plan to spend $42 Million to redevelop the mall into a Mexican Mercado. Mitchell Schnurman explores the project and the requested tax incentives in this column: http://www.dfw.com/m...ss/10825520.htm

[mosteijn]

The renderings in the paper looked very intriguing. I hope they can compromise on something, it would be great to see the mall performing well again.

And as long as they're going for hispanic customers, why not go more broad rather than just focusing on Mexican-Americans? I would love it if there were some South American retail places in Fort Worth. It sucks having to go to Irving just to get some top-quality tapas!

[Sam Stone]

$22 million sure is a lot of money. . . Hey, how much are we giving to Cabela's?

[redhead]

Sam, as of tonight's city council meeting, the number may increase...ta da...to 41.5 MILLION dollars. I for one, support a formula-based approach not to exceed a percentage of value. In other parts of the country, that percentage is usually capped around 15%. Here in Fort Worth, depending on the mood of the council or the strength of the hired consultant, there does not seem to be an upper limit!

[JBB]

Plan for mall clears hurdle

By Anna M. Tinsley

Star-Telegram Staff Writer


A proposal that the city provide up to $22 million in incentives to renovate the old Fort Worth Town Center mall into a festival-style mercado passed a hurdle Tuesday at City Hall.

The City Council's economic development committee voted unanimously to forward the proposal to the council for consideration.

Jesus Legaspi and his partners plan to spend $42 million to turn the 1962 mall into a "town hall" and redo the exterior in a Spanish colonial theme, with sweeping archways and bold colors.

"This is not just an Hispanic development, it's something the entire community can enjoy going to," said Robert Sturns, the city's business-development coordinator, in presenting the plan to the committee.

Sturns outlined the proposal to revamp the mall known as La Gran Plaza -- and refund millions in taxes to the development group if sales increase.

The nearly 1 million-square-foot site at Interstate 35W and Seminary Drive will become a one-stop location where families can go for everything from entertainment and dental care to groceries and clothes, officials said.

Under the proposal, developers would receive as much as $21.8 million divided into annual grants over 20 years.

The amount they receive would be based on how much sales increase.

The mall now has about $89 in sales per square foot. If that amount jumps to $150 per square foot, developers could see $9.8 million in refunded taxes.

If it hits $200, developers would see $13.7 million refunded. And if sales reach $300 per square foot, developers would see $21.8 million spread over 20 years, according to the plan. Refunded taxes would be capped at $21.8 million.

But if sales don't pick up after the renovations -- expected to be completed in about two years -- then developers would get no financial help from the city.

"The onus is on them, in terms of making this a successful project," said Councilwoman Wendy Davis, who heads the economic development committee.

The mall, with several boarded-up storefronts, is 40 percent occupied and has had three owners in the past 10 years.

Legaspi and his team -- which includes Boxer Property, Churchill Capital and the Legaspi Co. -- bought the old Town Center mall last year for $16.5 million and have been meeting with area residents and business leaders.

They want to add 30,000 square feet of retail shops and 5,400 square feet of office space and create an amphitheater and central plaza.

Prospective tenants include FAMSA, an electronics and furniture store; Emyco, a shoe store; Ritmo Latino, a Hispanic music store; El Gallo Giro, a Mexican food market; Elektra, an electronics and furniture store; Deportes Marti, a sporting-goods store; Tres Hermanos, a western-wear store; Starbucks; Subway; and Marshalls.

Councilman Jim Lane said he believes that the proposal is a good idea.

"Fort Worth has a tremendous Mexican-American, or Hispanic, population," said Lane, a committee member. "This attracts not just Hispanics, but everyone else too."

Under the proposal, the mall and its stores would create 300 full-time jobs -- at least half filled by Fort Worth residents -- and spend at least $70,000 on supplies and services each year with local minority- and women-owned businesses.

[JBB]

Is it normal to set performance goals and have the tax incentives depend on those goals? If not, why hasn't FW been doing it all along? I would like to think they haven't been blindly handing out these tax breaks, but I suspect that Cabelas gets their breaks whether they sell a million fishing lures or a dozen. IMO, I wonder how successful this project is really going to be. I know the neighborhood has changed a lot since the last renovation, but I still think it sounds like a flimsy proposition.

[Sam Stone]

Is it normal to have tax incentives depend on performance goals?

There is such a wide variety of incentives in the world of local economic development, the only "normal" practice is giving up the loaf for a slice.

Tax abatements, rebates, TIFs and the like are not good public policy. Tying them to performance goals is better than not tying them to anything at all, though. That's essentially what TIFs are. They've definitely been doing the minority and women owned business thing for some time. That's definitely good. But, think of all the minority and women owned businesses there are that are paying their property taxes at the satutory rates while recipients of incentives pay reduced rates. Or for that matter think of all the businesses regardless of the race and gender of the owner and their tax liabilities.

[John T Roberts]

The City Council is going to vote on this tomorrow.

Fort Worth Star-Telegram Article:
http://www.dfw.com/m...al/11826218.htm

[safly]

Is it normal to have tax incentives depend on performance goals?

There is such a wide variety of incentives in the world of local economic development, the only "normal" practice is giving up the loaf for a slice.

Tax abatements, rebates, TIFs and the like are not good public policy.  Tying them to performance goals is better than not tying them to anything at all, though.  That's essentially what TIFs are.  They've definitely been doing the minority and women owned business thing for some time.  That's definitely good.  But, think of all the minority and women owned businesses there are that are paying their property taxes at the satutory rates while recipients of incentives pay reduced rates.  Or for that matter think of all the businesses regardless of the race and gender of the owner and their tax liabilities.

Agreed. This liberal outpoor of TIF has been drivin me crazy. Have they even measured the success of it since it's inception for the county and city. TIF must be regulated and proven as a system for the good of Tarrant or Fort Worth. Too much THEORY involved, associated with impracticality, and ASSumptions.

The TIF is actually hurting the small business owner and the competitor companies which laid the groundworks for commerce in this county and city. Why should Cabela's receive such "special" taxpayer awarded cost cutting treatment, and given a DIRECT advantage over an Academy or Oshmans or any other sporting goods store? When taking a risk in this town or county from the early years, where are the due rewards? An uphill battle I tell you.

Thsi TIF act does nothing but put small business at a COMPLETE disadvantage. The only way a small busines can be rewarded is if they lease a part of the TIF zoned project. But even when leasing a property, there are inherent disadvantages to the end user or tenant. This just helps the big business developers who want to tear this or that down and build big, all while pumping up BIG "low-pay" employment numbers for all to envy. No basis behind their motives what so ever, just bottomline greed, on the taxpayers dime.

How can the county of Tarrant or the citty of FW expect to collect revenue stream from Cabela's sales if they are corp. chaind, and sales from the area customers are transacted ove r the internet. Can we tax that, or will that just open up a whole can of wrms. The perrformance measurement and payback doe snot make sense, and worse yet, not garohhnteed.
*Sorry for any typos, had a few libations tonight.

[safly]

Johnny, Tapas is for lightweights.

No tapas bar ever made a mercado significant. That TRAGEDY of a N. Main "mercado" was a fix all along. Papers and plans were executed during an election year. The person's council district used an election HQ office in a a building owneed by that same mercado owner. Coincidence.

Luzzy, you gozz zom esplainnin to do!

Mercado should have been reserved for the SF RMarket. Period.

Can't copy what SA did and put it away from DTFW traffic. The TRV will not BRIDGE DTFW with N. Main business. Just another obstacle for the predominantly hispanic owned businesses.

[mosteijn]

Johnny, Tapas is for lightweights.

No tapas bar ever made a mercado significant.

Ah, sorry I should have been more specific. I was talking about tapas de empanadas, which are the little pastries that you either make or can buy pre-made (like at this nice little Argentine bakery in Irving) for making empanadas. Central Market has them, but they're really not authentic. I don't care if it's at the TCM remodel or anywhere else in the city, but I'd like an Argentine place that's somewhat accessible to Fort Worth proper. That's just me...

[safly]

YOU WANT empanadas. check out my restaurant, if ever in SA. We make them EVERYDAY with homemade pina sauce, fresa, manzana, and cajeta w/ cinnamon sugar coating. Some days we have em on special with pollo, arroz and pappas inside, some days with a special picadillo a la mexicana salsa. I made one special with boudain(cajun) sausage inside, and tamales too. SOLD OUT! Like crazy.

Nobody better BITE my ideas here!

Moral of the story is: You don't have to go to Argentina for that cheap stuff. Keep spreadin the word on it, and somebody will open one up in DTFW, and charge $10/plate for 4 of em. Maybe make some sampler of it. Blue Mesa has em at one location in Dallas, did not try it BTW. Good luck.

Want the recipe? Simple to make.

Who knows, I can see McD's start makin em. Gotta keep that Latino market in check somehow. I won't worry, it will certainly be more slop from them.

[John T Roberts]

The first part of the renovation of the center has started with the demolition of the service canopies at the old Sears Auto Center at the corner of I-35 and Seminary. I was by there the other day and noticed the canopies had been removed. Over the spring, further exterior renovations are planned for the building and the shell should be ready for new tenants by August.

[Thurman52]

I was sent some new renderings of this project recently. Has much been done around the area? I have not taken time to get down there in a while. How do I upload them?

[John T Roberts]

The only work that has been completed so far is the new facade on the old Sears Auto Center at the corner of I-35W and Seminary Drive. I have not been inside the mall since before the project was announced, so I can't tell you if anything has been done on the interior.

To show a photo on the forum, it must be housed somewhere on the web. There are several photo hosting sites available, but I would be more than happy to host the photos for you if you just want to post a few. If you want to go that route, e-mail me at jtrobert@flash.net.

[John T Roberts]

I don't know if anyone has driven by La Gran Plaza lately, but they have made a lot of progress in putting a new facade on the center. It now has a Spanish look and feel. Also, I have found out that Burlington Coat Factory will be putting a store in the center.

[Now in Denton]

I have driven by. Even the old Sears auto shop looks like a Spanish mission.

[John T Roberts]

Yesterday, I was sent an e-mail about an article on the top grossing malls on a square foot basis in the U.S.  I then saw a link to a page about Hispanic Malls and that La Gran Plaza was the largest and most successful of its type.  That led me to some photographs of Seminary South shortly after it opened with kids playing around the central fountain, yet the office building was still under construction.  (Not even full height)  This led me to the leasing package for La Gran Plaza de Fort Worth. 

 

Construction has started on a Chuck E. Cheese on an outparcel fronting I-35W.  Also, Beall's have leased approximately 30,000 square feet of the lower level of the old Stripling's Department Store.  I went over there yesterday evening and Stripling's old ceiling and light fixtures are still present in the space.  This makes the mall nearly 100% leased, with the largest available space being the old Penney's basement.

[renamerusk]

...... a link to a page about Hispanic Malls and that La Gran Plaza was the largest and most successful of its type.....This makes the mall nearly 100% leased, with the largest available space being the old Penney's basement.

 

Great news!

[McHand]

The play area at La Gran Plaza is Fort Worth's best-kept secret for families. (Oops...)

[brownjd]

Yesterday, I was sent an e-mail about an article on the top grossing malls on a square foot basis in the U.S.  I then saw a link to a page about Hispanic Malls and that La Gran Plaza was the largest and most successful of its type.  That led me to some photographs of Seminary South shortly after it opened with kids playing around the central fountain, yet the office building was still under construction.  (Not even full height)  This led me to the leasing package for La Gran Plaza de Fort Worth. 

 

 

Can you post links to those articles?

[Austin55]

Does anyone know what's being built along 35? This rendering makes it look like an arena or something, however its several years old.

 

[JBB]

Could that be the Chuck E Cheese?

[RD Milhollin]

It looks about the right size to house a set of cinema screens. Cinema Latino closed down at La Gran Plaza at the end of 2014 according to its website, maybe another cinema company is building from the ground up.

[John T Roberts]

That was proposed to be an arena.  As far as I know the current construction is Chuck E. Cheese.  I will see if I can go back to find those articles and I will also see if I can find a new site plan.

[pelligrini]

There's a sign next to the access road I saw yesterday while driving home. I think it read Kids and More.

[John T Roberts]

Conn's Home Plus has leased 31,167 s.f. in part of the old basement of the Stripling's Department Store.  This store has direct access to the parking lot on the east side of the building. 

[txbornviking]

Last night on Twitter in response to someone calling La Gran Plaza a "crappy redevelopment" Bud Kennedy stated that La Gran Plaza brings in more sales tax than any other shopping mall besides the big "town centers."

I'm not 100% what that means in comparison to Hulen Mall etc, but I assume the "town center" would be a reference to ClearFork or Waterside?

 

Though on a per square foot basis makes me wonder how it compares to places like West 7th etc. Since La Gran Plaza has the above mentioned stepped incentives, I would assume these numbers are public somewhere. Does anyone know where I could dig?

[John T Roberts]

Austin would probably be the one who could dig up that information.  Whenever I have been by La Gran Plaza on the weekends, the parking lot has been more crowded than any of the traditional malls. 

[txbornviking]

my wife and I are big fans of La Gran Plaza.

 

Lots of good things to eat and good places for kids to play also

[Austin55]

LGP is also much more than a mall to raise sales taxes, it's a community center for the massive Hispanic community.

[rriojas71]

Last night on Twitter in response to someone calling La Gran Plaza a "crappy redevelopment" Bud Kennedy stated that La Gran Plaza brings in more sales tax than any other shopping mall besides the big "town centers."
I'm not 100% what that means in comparison to Hulen Mall etc, but I assume the "town center" would be a reference to ClearFork or Waterside?
 
Though on a per square foot basis makes me wonder how it compares to places like West 7th etc. Since La Gran Plaza has the above mentioned stepped incentives, I would assume these numbers are public somewhere. Does anyone know where I could dig?

I think he’s maybe talking about Southlake Town Center

[John T Roberts]

La Gran Plaza de Fort Worth is expanding by adding an outparcel building on Seminary Drive.  The story is in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram for those of you who have access to the article.  The link is below:

 

https://www.star-tel...e230916983.html

[John T Roberts]

La Gran Plaza has become a big success.  It is one of the most visited shopping centers in Fort Worth.  The Fort Worth Report has this story:

 

https://fortworthrep...orth-heres-why/

[Big Frog II]

Smart business plan.

[Doohickie]

"One of the most visited" but behind Parks at Arlingtion, NE Mall, Montgomery Plaza, Hulen Mall, and about the same as Overton Park Plaza.  Is it more visited than *any* other enclosed mall (besides the corpse of Ridgmar)?

[arch-image]

"One of the most visited" but behind Parks at Arlingtion, NE Mall, Montgomery Plaza, Hulen Mall, and about the same as Overton Park Plaza.  Is it more visited than *any* other enclosed mall (besides the corpse of Ridgmar)?

 

Actually for the latest numbers it is equal to Hulen at 4.9 Mil, and where Montgomery is concerned, I have to ask, how many of those "visitors" are going simply because they live there or right adjacent to i, to me it isn't a good comparison as it is really your basic neighborhood type shopping center and gets a large percentage of traffic due to bars and restaurants. 15 of the "Stores", that's 30%, just not the same. Take them out and Lan Gran is tied for 3rd place. I think what the owners have is quite impressive and has been a good deal for the CIty. 

[Doohickie]

I think what the owners have is quite impressive and has been a good deal for the CIty.

Oh I fully agree with this.  I just find it kind of an odd lead in when they're not ahead of any of the places you think they might be. 

[John T Roberts]

Doohickie, maybe you should talk to the Fort Worth Report about that.

[Doohickie]

It kind of reminds me of one of the old leaders of the Night Riders who liked to claim (tongue in cheek) "We are the third leading pub crawl group in the south side of Fort Worth (back when we often had 30-50 riders).

[Urbndwlr]

Target on Carroll Street must generate a ton of visitor trip volume by itself. 

 

Montgomery Plaza, according to the FWR article, generated 5.2 million trips in 2022 (14,502/day avg over 365 days).

What again did the two sides of the debate over adding apartments in Montgomery Plaza project the vehicular trip impact would be of the planned apartments?  (think one was higher, the other lower)
 

in interest of saving time I'll wildly guess:

550 units x 1.25 residents/unit x .95 occ rate x 2 trips/day = 1306 unique (car) trips generated on average day (gross impact) by those apartments. 

If you net out the reduction in trips by removed big box retailers + addition of vehicular trips to new, smaller retailers (dont have enough info to estimate but is prob a reduction).

 

The impact on daily average trip volume of the above very rough math would be 9% addition to existing vehicular traffic. (removal of the bigger retailers might drive that down).  IMO that isnt a big difference.

That does NOT take into account the time of day of the trips, which arent likely to match w/ Target & M. Plaza's current retail peak times, Id assume. 

[Stadtplan]

Im entering the conversation late but it seems like Chick-Fil-A generates a lot of traffic too.