15 replies to this topic

[renamerusk]

Even though I think generally that the proliferation of casinos is a bad idea, the topic generates enough interest thus the creation of its own thread.

 

[renamerusk]

 

Oh, I think an old west themed casino in the Stockyards, and also maybe a non-gambling Great Wolf Lodge/Gaylord Texan family friendly resort would complete the ambiance of the place and put Fort Worth on the tourism map.

I don't doubt that a destination resort with a casino would be a great thing, but I have doubts that we will ever see that in Texas. I would love to be wrong. And johnfwd makes a good point about jobs being added to the economy. I just don't know if it will be worth the drawbacks.

 

 

 

 

Oh, I think an old west themed casino in the Stockyards, and also maybe a non-gambling Great Wolf Lodge/Gaylord Texan family friendly resort would complete the ambiance of the place and put Fort Worth on the tourism map.

 

If casinos were to become licensed in Texas, it would generate a very competitive and ugly round of competition between all of Texas' major population centers; and which Fort Worth would not necessarily be awarded a casino; or unless the Casino Board awards every county of over 250,000 inhabitants; and that would be a lot of casinos. There will likely be a casino in the Stockyards and in Fair Park Dallas.  How does that increase outside tourism for either city? Multiple casinos negate the need to travel to a casino and would not generate tourism.

 

If Texas wants the biggest bang for the dollar, a surer bet for building casinos are El Paso, Galveston(Houston), Grand Prairie(DFW) and Padre Island.

 

However, I do think casinos are such a bad idea, that Texas really should not go there at all.

 

 

 

Why Grand Prairie? 

I understand El Paso and certainly understand Galveston, but Grand Prairie? (Just seems a little random)
 

 

 

 

Can't remember for sure, but I believe the owner of Lone Star Park in Grand Prairie has expressed an interest in opening a casino on their property. That would make some sense. Placing one at Fair Park seems even more bizarre than that.

 

 Grand Prairie is the logistical compromise between a Dallas and Fort Worth spat.

[Jeriat]

...it is?

 

[johnfwd]

This FWBP article raises a point that casinos can be magnets for other investment opportunities such as hotels and retail establishments.

 

http://fwbusinesspre...il-center-.aspx

[FWFD1247]

I personally am for casinos here in Texas. Yes, people waste a lot of money at casinos but personally I like the resort style pool at Choctaw. Every time I go there 90% of the cars in the parking lot are from Texas and I feel those are Jobs and revenue that we can keep here in our great state and city!

[Russ Graham]

I feel those are Jobs and revenue that we can keep here in our great state and city!

 

Consider that the vast majority of the profits spent at a casino goes to the House - and there's no guarantee that money will ever see the light of day in our city or state again.  It will go to whatever trans-national entity owns the casino.

 

So for instance, if a dollar gets spent at the craps table by a retired bus driver from Euless - maybe some pocket change goes to paying salaries of the door man, the parking lot attendant, and the dealer.  But the bulk of that dollar have been removed from the Tarrant county economy, and nothing was added back to the Tarrant county economy.

 

Compare that to the same guy spending a dollar at a locally owned retail shop on a toy for his granddaughter.  That money will stay in Tarrant county, generate sales tax revenue, and what's more the "capital goods" (i.e. the Raggedy Ann doll he just bought) are added to our local capital stock, which can be enjoyed until the doll wears out.

 

So, don't assume a Casino is good for the economy just because it is generating "jobs" - it's still sucking out far more money than it's putting in.  It will only pay off if the vast majority of people are visitors - as in the case with Vegas, Atlantic City, Choctaw, etc.  Then the money lost by locals is made up for by the money spent outside the casino by other visitors.  In the case of Tarrant, if we get a casino, (as RR points out above) then there will be casinos scattered all over Texas - and the only people playing will be locals. 

[Phil Phillips]

Well, don't forget that all the food, drink and other supplies will likely be purchased from local businesses.  Also, there will be sales tax money generated for the local entities, so it really is more than just creating jobs.  Even if the majority of people playing are locals, their money is staying here (initially) and not going to OK or LA.

[mmiller2002]

These days it seems like the argument for casinos is that everybody else is doing it, so we better do it too, even if we don't really like the idea because they attract patrons who can't really afford to waste their money.

[elpingüino]

Geren's push for legalized casinos earns support from Fort Worth mayor

[JBB]

What the article doesn't mention is that Dan Patrick said in an interview this week that he wouldn't allow a senate vote unless the bill would pass with more Republican votes than Democrat.  It doesn't have that support now, so it seems unlikely to happen.  I'm not high on the idea of legalizing casinos, but I'm also not crazy about the idea of a political victory being more important than what's best for the state.

[Urbndwlr]

Casinos are such a horrible idea for Texas.

I think there are massive negative economic externalities (not to mention social)that result from having casinos closer to more Texans.

Once we realize this was a bad idea, can we just revoke the casino licenses?  I doubt it. 

 

How many additional children will grow up in Texas whose fathers/mothers gambled away their paychecks or savings too many times and therefore kept the family in poverty?  

I know this sounds like puritanical hyperbole but these things are real.  Casinos are not built to benefit cities and their citizens.   They dont screen for people who are vulnerable to addiction (either alcohol or gambling) or who really shouldn't be wagering b/c they have very little financial cushion.  What is the cost to the rest of us in Texas for every person who joins the poverty ranks (or fails to climb out of it) because they fall victim to frequent casino trips?  

How about the children/dependents of someone with a gambling addiction or just a couple of really bad financial losses?  The answer is we all pay. 

How many additional people will experience homelessness (beyond those who would have otherwise) because they had a bad day at the tables?

 

In so many states and cities, casino gambling is presented either as:

1)  "found money" for their community because tourists will flock in and spend money in and outside the casino

[The reality s that these regional casinos are not meaningful tourist draws.  They draw mostly locally and regionally.]

 

2)  its happening in neighboring state and several people from our state go there, so we might as well put them here too, to recapture those gambling dollars going acorss the state line. 

 [The closer casinos are to a prospective gambler/customer, the more likely that gambler/customer visits the casino more often.  And the more local people who are likely to visit. Putting casinos in TX is NOT about purely or even mostly recapturing Texans who head to OK or LA.  It is about capturing more Texans as gamblers to gamble more often and lose more often.]

 

This is a Trojan Horse and way too many people seem to be falling for this old trope.  I hope we are smarter than this.

[Stadtplan]

I had a friend that believe it or not was a financial advisor (not mine) but he had dug himself out of a pretty severe gambling addiction in the late 90s. He said it got so bad he would get a credit card, buy new merchandise and immediately pawn it for cash all with the intention of winning enough to pay back the card charges and then some.

Not to be sounding on a high horse, but functionally, the thing I cant get past about casinos is the cigarette smoke. I hear even the smoke-free areas you still leave feeling like you need a shower afterwards. But on the flip side, will a casino function without chain smokers? Seems like it goes hand-in-hand.

[JBB]

People pushing casino gambling want you to think it's going to result in grandiose Las Vegas-style resort casinos when it's really going to be Bossier City circa 1995 or Thackerville circa 2015.  Anyone seen the current state of the Bossier City casinos?  Think there's a pretty good chance that Winstar will look similar in 15 or 20 years?  The southern Oklahoma casinos have the live music thing working out pretty good right now, but I wonder how long that will last.  Shreveport casinos thrived until the regional tourists went elsewhere only to be replaced by locals.  I would imagine the same happening in Oklahoma.  Getting gambling here would just be redistributing money from one part of the economy to another.  Call me a cynic if you please.  I just don't want it here.

[Big Frog II]

I am not a gambler and don't frequent the casinos nearby.  However, the  tax money that is going to Oklahoma could be staying here.  Shreveport's decline is a result of DFW people going to Winstar and Choctaw.  Go look at the license plates, they are all Texans. People are going to gamble.  We might as well benefit from it.

[Urbndwlr]

I am not a gambler and don't frequent the casinos nearby.  However, the  tax money that is going to Oklahoma could be staying here.  Shreveport's decline is a result of DFW people going to Winstar and Choctaw.  Go look at the license plates, they are all Texans. People are going to gamble.  We might as well benefit from it.

 

The $ that flow to OK casinos from Texans isnt exactly a major "trade deficit" problem we need to solve in Texas.  That's more of an alibi to justify building them in TX.

By putting casinos closer to more Texans, we increase the number of people who suffer from the problems that stem from them. 

I'm no puritan by a long stretch but we're getting played by Casino operators and developers.  People are ignoring the very real downsides and costs to us all. 

 

Im guessing if we grant those licenses to open casinos, it wont be easy to revoke the licenses if they're problematic, right? 

[Crestline]

Are there any examples in the US (or heck, the world) where casinos are regulated to minimize the negative externalities and even "pull the plug" when they get too extreme? It's easy for me to imagine a very aggressive Texas regulator that limits licenses per county, imposes punitive fines for realized externalities, and so on. But has this ever been done?