122 replies to this topic

[Jeriat]

I know this TCC looks out of place, but I do embrace a little architectural diversity (yes, I know I've made it clear that I HATE brutalist buildings, but even I think they have their place) so I'll take a little bit of Vancouver down here. 

 

Hey, it could have been worse. I mean, at least it has windows....

 

 

 

[cberen1]

So much of the crticism of the TCC building focuses on either shape or exterior of the buildings and the fact that they look different from those around them (i.e. they don't fit).  I would argue that 1) as Jeriat said there is value in architectural diversity and 2) the scale, location and elevation of the buildings actually do a great deal to accentuate the buildings and features around them.  If TCC had built a couple of grand buildings on its two primary blocks they would have blocked views of the County Courthouse from the Belknap corridor and of the River from buildings and roads in DTFW.  We certainly would have complained about that.  If you really take a look at the buildings that were built, they are relatively small and out of the way compared to what they could have been.  The courthouse in particular gets to stand out with nothing tall immediately surrounding it.  Contract that with it getting crowded out over time by 5+ story buildings on each of the surrounding blocks.  The TCC buildings help the fabric of DTFW.

 

I don't expect to make anyone like those buildings that is determined to not like them.  But if the standard for design in FW was consensus on this forum, Tarrant County would still be a prairie. 

 

Now, if someone wants to argue about the price tag, you'll get no fight from me.  Ridiculous.  But, it's done now so you might as well make the best of it.

[Fort Worthology]

I don't think they're "out of place" - I have no problem with older designs and modern design coexisting - I just don't think they're conceived or executed all that well.  They're not *terrible* like I expected them to be during construction, they're just not as great as I'd hope.  (And I was a fan of the original design models!  Those turned out to be misleading...)

 

And honestly, yes, I would have preferred TCC build actual buildings on its blocks rather than the half-below-ground things they did, "blocking courthouse views" or no.  Beside the fact that they'd likely be better for the street than what we got (not to mention probably significantly cheaper), I think the courthouse would look stunning in its monumental location, sited on its lawn (with the gross appendage on its west side removed, of course), surrounded by blocks comprised of traditional (in form, not necessarily style) urban buildings.  The blocks of conventional(ish) building designs around it, occupying normal blocks, would create the context from which the courthouse would stand out even more.  It's the tension-and-release of quality urbanism, the density playing against the monumental placement of importance.

 

But whatever, they're there now.  Don't want to derail discussion of the new courthouse, which I actually think will probably turn out pretty nice for what it is.

[dangr.dave]

Here is a recent shot of the construction:

 

And, ever higher it goes by dangr.dave, on Flickr

[dangr.dave]

Going vertical by dangr.dave, on Flickr

[johnfwd]

The new civil courthouse , when operational, may create some people activity at the TCC plaza. Maybe some courthouse staff taking advantage of the asphault seating to eat lunch outdoors. Of course this would be during spring time or late fall, when the weather is comfortable. I’m just happy that civil courts will be separated from their criminal counterparts (both presently in the justice center further down west Weatherford).

[Austin55]

That would certainly be nice. The slanted building on the left of Dave's picture is a cafe. I don't know if it's any good as I've never been there though. There are some nice little "parklets" scattered around the complex as well with some benches and trees that are very nice to sit in. 

 

I also hope that maybe the continual building up of Northeast downtown will lead some of the residents of the skyline bluff and the neighborhood across the railroad tracks there to walk more into downtown, and eventually become incorporated into it as a whole. Hopefully whatever is planned after the new surface lot on the Weatherford/Jones/Pecan/1st street will be around 3-7 stories will contain some ground retail as all these civic buildings lack and real reason to visit them besides work or need.

Does anyone know if the garage immediately south of the courthouse was designed to one day operate with retail on the ground floor? The facade along the street is very unique and looks as if it is perhaps meant to be retail one day if the demand is there, especially the Calhoun facing facade would be perfect for restaurants with patios. There are a few other garage's like this, I can think of the Omni's of the top of my head.

 

I took a picture today from the area I'm talking about. The Courthouse is really making an impact on the skyline from here, now that it has reached 6 stories.

[dangr.dave]

As of this morning:

 

I love you on so many levels by dangr.dave, on Flickr

[ramjet]

Beautiful photos - all of these and others on this forum!  As a Fort Worth exile who loves to see what's going on there, I really look forward to all of your posts.  And they are so well done.  To all of you who make the effort to take the pics, and then post them here - very much appreciated down here in Austin.  Fort Worth is a beautiful city that's really changing in a good way.  And the FWF is turning out to be repository of the city's evolution and history.  Thank you.

[Austin55]

Credit to Brian's FB page. 

[Jeriat]

You know, you never really appreciate just how BIG the new Civil Courts Building is. Feels massive from even a few blocks away. 

[dangr.dave]

As of 08/01:

 

Sometimes, we try to wall ourselves off by dangr.dave, on Flickr

[John T Roberts]

You can see where the angels from the old Civil Courts Building will be placed.

[Austin55]

Today. Hope to start seeing some facade soon. 

 

[lcbrownz]

Today. Hope to start seeing some facade soon. 

 

With all of the courthouses, law enforcement offices, and correctional centers in the same vicinity, they need to rename the street, "Law and Order Way".

[Austin55]

Slow and steady wins the race.

 

New Civ Courthouse by Micro55, on Flickr

[BlueMound]

Great photo Austin55!
Nice one.

[Austin55]

Facade lookin good. A bit dirty right now. Granite pecies look nice, the diagonal set bricks do to. Note the circles near the top to.  This building is starting to get exciting. I think the whole little complex of the Civ Courts, Full Court, and Family and TCC all look pretty cool together. The concave facade on the East side will look real neat. I hope maybe some retail will pop up along Grove and Jones streets in the area to help entice some pedestrianism (made up word).
 

New Civ Courts by Micro55, on Flickr

 

New Civ Courts by Micro55, on Flickr

[SurplusPopulation]

Are the angel statues still going up on this one?

[Austin55]

Are the angel statues still going up on this one?

 

In my picture on post #66 you can see the two cinder block lined sections where the angels will be. 

[Austin55]

ST: Tarrant County hopes for new Civil Courts Building by year’s end

 

I thought it had been going slow, now we have a reason. I had'nt realized that Sundance had cleared that nearby lot for the courthouse, or that 3 angels are being saved for the new building. I guess the 3rd will go on the back?

[John T Roberts]

I had always heard that two angels were going on the front and the other two were going to be placed in storage.  Maybe they found a place on the building where the third one could be placed.  My guess would be on the east side.  When we designed the parking lot for Sundance, they always mentioned that they might rent out the spaces to the County on that lot.

[Volare]

Someone should do some math and figure out where the acoustic focus is of that concave western wall. Would be nifty if it's somewhere on the eastern side of the old court house. Could make for some cool audio demonstrations...

[Austin55]

The back and sides are nearly done, fron has some more work, as well as the ground floor. No sign of angels.

 

DSC_0051 by Micro55, on Flickr

 

DSC_0052 by Micro55, on Flickr

[dangr.dave]

A photo of the building as of yesterday (04/16/2014).

 

Up and coming by dangr.dave, on Flickr

[johnfwd]

Nice looking façade.  Can't wait to see the inside courtrooms.  I'm not exactly sure which courts will be re-located, but I'm guessing:  All the civil district courts from the Curry Justice Center; the probate and county courts at law from the old courthouse; and maybe JP 1 from the courthouse.   Could be wrong; we'll see.

[Austin55]

The Angels are being installed, you can see the one going in on the back elevator wall from the NBC broadcast. 

[dangr.dave]

I may have to drive a b-cycle down there at lunch to check it out, Austin.

[johnfwd]

The Angels are being installed, you can see the one going in on the back elevator wall from the NBC broadcast. 

 

I may have to drive a b-cycle down there at lunch to check it out, Austin.

Hallelujah!

[dangr.dave]

Just checked it out and there are two angels on the front and one on the back, all  installed up to their heads.  The place is really coming along.

[John T Roberts]

Austin, after you let us know that you can see them on the NBC5 News, I looked for the angel.  I did see it over the weekend.  Here's a closeup of one of the angels being installed.  This was taken late yesterday afternoon, near sunset.

 

[Austin55]

I noticed they seem to be very low on the building, there's a lot of room above them. I Wonder how that will come out.

[johnfwd]

I never noticed the angel figures on the courthouse annex, probably because of their obscure location.  Now the figures will be prominently exposed on the new courts building.  Which has me, as a lawyer, wondering:  Why an angel?  Below is a quoted excerpt from the commonlaw.com website regarding the "Lady of Justice."

 

"Representations of the Lady of Justice in the Western tradition occur in many places and at many times. She sometimes wears a blindfold, more so in Europe, but more often she appears without one. She usually carries a sword and scales. Almost always draped in flowing robes, mature but not old, no longer commonly known as Themis, she symbolizes the fair and equal administration of the law, without corruption, avarice, prejudice, or favor."

 

Not suggesting the angel figures be replaced by the lady of justice w/scales.  But what does an angel symbolize?  Mercy and compassion, I guess.  May even inspire some of our hard-core civil judges (no names, here).

[John T Roberts]

The angels on the old Civil Courts Building were 4 stories tall.  If the floor to floor heights on the new building are somewhat close to what they were on the old one, then the angels should be about the same height in relationship to the floors.  From the photographs of the new building, this appears to be the case.  For reference, go to http://www.fortworth...e.com/civil.jpg. This is one of the older photographs on the site, so the resolution is quite low.

[dangr.dave]

Yes; the room above them is for the wings.

[Austin55]

I hadn't remembered them being so tall.

[Austin55]

This is'nt a complaint, just an observation, but this building is taking fooooorever to build. Did'nt it start before the Plaza? Sundance have built 3 large buildings and a plaza and this guy is still chugging along. 

 

 

[John T Roberts]

Austin, for the record, construction actually started after the construction started for Sundance Square Plaza.  I have a couple of comments.  Courts buildings are highly specialized and they take longer to build.  When an owner builds an office building, they construct the shell without interiors.   This court building includes the entire package, including all of the finish-out.  Even though the Westbrook and Commerce Buildings are almost 100% leased, there are still office spaces inside that have not been finished out. 

[JBB]

I seem to remember that the family courts building was a very long project as well.

[Austin55]

The Mullions in the main facade are very nice. Looks they are just wrapping up finishing the ground floor exterior.

 

[dfwerdoc]

love the facade and loved that we cared enough to take our time to make this building a statement

[johnfwd]

Looking good.  Can't wait to see the inside.

[prideftw]

I love this building it has come out nice

[mmmdan]

Looking good.  Can't wait to see the inside.

 

Personally, I would prefer to not have to see the inside.

[johnfwd]

Good point.  I found out from reliable sources the other day that most of the courts in the old courthouse are staying put.  County courts at law and probate courts (and presumably JP1) will remain in the old courthouse.  The new civil law courts building will house the civil district courts currently in the Tim Curry Justice Center further to the west on Weatherford Street.

[BedfordLawyer]

Good point.  I found out from reliable sources the other day that most of the courts in the old courthouse are staying put.  County courts at law and probate courts (and presumably JP1) will remain in the old courthouse.  The new civil law courts building will house the civil district courts currently in the Tim Curry Justice Center further to the west on Weatherford Street.

 

It is my understanding that all the courts in the old courthouse are staying put while the civil district courts, the second court of appeals and the district clerk's offices will all move into the new building. Then the Tim Curry courthouse will be remodelled and I believe the plan is to convert that building into exclusively criminal courts and their respective administrative offices.

[youngalum]

That is correct--Tim Curry Justice Center civil side will become admin offices and overflow courtrooms.

[johnfwd]

Since I've been practicing law I've always thought the state treats county courts at law as step-children to the civil district courts.  Why the Tarrant county courts can't join their district counterparts in more modern facilities is beyond my understanding.  Especially since the jurisdictional amounts in controversy for county courts in Tarrant County has been raised to $200,000 (from $100,000).  Which means they'll be getting a lot more of the cases previously filed in district courts.

 

In Dallas County,, several years ago,  the county courts at law were moved out of their old courthouse and into more modern facilities, which also house the civil district courts, on commerce street in downtown Dallas

[youngalum]

Tarrant County court at laws are awesome courtrooms.  The judges like them and they are a great place to practice law.

[BlueMound]

Does the plan still exist to demolish the Criminal Courts & Jail at 300 Belknap ?