70 replies to this topic

[JBB]

I would have thought they could work out an arrangement to share the sea of parking across Carroll.

[urban_fever]

Stick to the 'burbs if you wanna pave it all. We need to expect more from people building in the central city.

Thank you AG. That is just my point. I would think that they would be considerate enough to try and follow the trend that others are setting in this area.

[safly]

Who knows. Maybe Gold told them to do this???

sorry, I meant God.

But in all seriousness, someone should go over there along there sidewalks and OUT PRAY them for a divine message that THIS AIN'T RIGHT. Before it is too late.

[Willy1]

After their church services, they can go get drunk at the Bronx Zoo or The Shamrock. Maybe drive a few blocks to Fred's. Being Catholic, that's what I do after church, so I assume these folks will be the same

LOL - I grew up Methodist so it wasn't out of the ordinary for us to "celebrate" either. But I went to FC for a few years a few years ago. That place is like "The Greatest Show on Earth"... IMO. It's all smoke and mirrors but then when you dig deeper, there are lots of ugly truths that are being conveniently ignored. Trust me - there are a few there who "celebrate" from time to time, but they also do it very quietly as this place is not exactly tollerant of anything alternative. Ironically, I know of many members who would be forced to leave the church if Ed Young actually knew what kinds of lives they were leading, including staff members.

Don't get me wrong, people get something out of attending FC... it serves it's purpose. It's just not for me now that I know what I know...

[safly]

Hmmm. What you know. Sounds KINKY.

You mean pastors still kick people out of certain places of worship. Talk about a pulpit on a pedestool.

That's like GIVING UP on your message of FAITH, HOPE and REDEMPTION.

Sounds Koresh like.

[PLS]

LOL - I grew up Methodist so it wasn't out of the ordinary for us to "celebrate" either. But I went to FC for a few years a few years ago. That place is like "The Greatest Show on Earth"... IMO. It's all smoke and mirrors but then when you dig deeper, there are lots of ugly truths that are being conveniently ignored. Trust me - there are a few there who "celebrate" from time to time, but they also do it very quietly as this place is not exactly tollerant of anything alternative. Ironically, I know of many members who would be forced to leave the church if Ed Young actually knew what kinds of lives they were leading, including staff members.

Don't get me wrong, people get something out of attending FC... it serves it's purpose. It's just not for me now that I know what I know...

my wife and i tried out fc earlier this year and really liked it at first - but there was one sunday in particular earlier last summer that stood out in my mind. ed young went off on a tangent to berate what he called a small group of the church. that still stands out in my mind and i'm wondering if willy might have insiders knowledge on what went down. if so, willy, send me a message. we have been talking about going someplace smaller for a while now, but i have always been curious what was behind what i felt like was a pretty personal attack on unnamed members of the church.

[cberen1]

ed young went off on a tangent to berate what he called a small group of the church. that still stands out in my mind and i'm wondering if willy might have insiders knowledge on what went down.

Is this the kind of place that rests almost entirely on the personality and strength of the pastor? What happens if ed young goes down (physically, morally, politically, whatever...)? Does the whole of FC fail?

I'm just asking because I don't know anything about FC aside from their lack of concern for the neighborhood they're invading.

[safly]

Good point, one that I have always been concerned with regarding these TYPES of "places of worship". It seems like the message is pushed aside to make way for the "personality" of the messenger. The message and sense of hope is what should move a person's spirit or attitude, not the organic makeup that projects a spiritual notion.

I could remember as a kid, when the family would go to CChrisit to visit relatives we would always go to this one church familiar to our faith. On Sunday mass there was this one priest who would get the congregation all fired up over his sermon, and at the end would await for everyone TO APPLAUSE! That's a BIG NO NO, and I believe he was disciplined/removed by the council or bishop in a swift and under the radar fashion. That is one thing I like about the RC Archdiocese, they RARELY mess with their fully funded MACHINE, but will certainly hold the Operators accountable at all cost. Sort of like a franchise.

I guess there is plenty at stake.

[jmilam]

ed young went off on a tangent to berate what he called a small group of the church. that still stands out in my mind and i'm wondering if willy might have insiders knowledge on what went down.

Is this the kind of place that rests almost entirely on the personality and strength of the pastor? What happens if ed young goes down (physically, morally, politically, whatever...)? Does the whole of FC fail?

I'm just asking because I don't know anything about FC aside from their lack of concern for the neighborhood they're invading.

Why would you say that? Have you talked to someone from the church and they said that they do not have any concern for the neighborhood?

[urban_fever]

ed young went off on a tangent to berate what he called a small group of the church. that still stands out in my mind and i'm wondering if willy might have insiders knowledge on what went down.

Is this the kind of place that rests almost entirely on the personality and strength of the pastor? What happens if ed young goes down (physically, morally, politically, whatever...)? Does the whole of FC fail?

I'm just asking because I don't know anything about FC aside from their lack of concern for the neighborhood they're invading.

Why would you say that? Have you talked to someone from the church and they said that they do not have any concern for the neighborhood?

If they are so inconsiderate that they actually do create a vast sea of parking instead of a garage, then i would say that they do not have any concern about this neighborhood. They are not trying to contribute to the revitalization if that is the case.

[jmilam]

ed young went off on a tangent to berate what he called a small group of the church. that still stands out in my mind and i'm wondering if willy might have insiders knowledge on what went down.

Is this the kind of place that rests almost entirely on the personality and strength of the pastor? What happens if ed young goes down (physically, morally, politically, whatever...)? Does the whole of FC fail?

I'm just asking because I don't know anything about FC aside from their lack of concern for the neighborhood they're invading.

Why would you say that? Have you talked to someone from the church and they said that they do not have any concern for the neighborhood?

If they are so inconsiderate that they actually do create a vast sea of parking instead of a garage, then i would say that they do not have any concern about this neighborhood. They are not trying to contribute to the revitalization if that is the case.

Ok, so the basic logic is this. If you create a parking lot, instead of spending millions on a garage, then you do not care about the neighborhood? Since when does parking density have anything to do with caring for the neighborhood? It seems to be an architectual preference to me.

[ramjet]

Think of all the parking they coulda' had at the old Buick dealership on North University.

And a nice building with a big glass wall overlookin' the eastern sky for sunrise services...

And close to the river for dunkin'...

(By the way, is that structure even there anymore?)

[Fort Worthology]

Ok, so the basic logic is this. If you create a parking lot, instead of spending millions on a garage, then you do not care about the neighborhood? Since when does parking density have anything to do with caring for the neighborhood? It seems to be an architectual preference to me.

This neighborhood has enourmous potential to become a denser, walkable environment. Large surface parking lots are a hinderance to this goal. They create dead spaces, make pedestrians uncomfortable, consume land at a remarkable pace, create unattractive and usually unsafe wastelands, and generally do not contribute to the neighborhood.

[jmilam]

Ok, so the basic logic is this. If you create a parking lot, instead of spending millions on a garage, then you do not care about the neighborhood? Since when does parking density have anything to do with caring for the neighborhood? It seems to be an architectual preference to me.

This neighborhood has enourmous potential to become a denser, walkable environment. Large surface parking lots are a hinderance to this goal. They create dead spaces, make pedestrians uncomfortable, consume land at a remarkable pace, create unattractive and usually unsafe wastelands, and generally do not contribute to the neighborhood.

I understand perfectly what some want, but unless you're willing to put up the money, you don't get everything you want. I'd rather have an organization in the neighborhood that keeps the properties up than reject them because they don't follow strict "urban" design rules...You're never going to have Manhattan in the middle of cowtown. And parking lots can look good if designed with the appropriate landscaping. And, without the dense mass transit that will be decades or longer to get there, if there is no cheap parking, you won't get enough people into the area to keep the businesses open.

[Fort Worthology]

I understand perfectly what some want, but unless you're willing to put up the money, you don't get everything you want. I'd rather have an organization in the neighborhood that keeps the properties up than reject them because they don't follow strict "urban" design rules...You're never going to have Manhattan in the middle of cowtown.

Manhattan has nothing to do with it. This is about following quality traditional guidelines, not trying to cram skyscrapers into every inch of town. There are ways to hide parking, some of which do not involve garages. I don't expect to see Manhattan, but I do expect and demand quality traditional-style urban design and planning. If they want to pave twelve blocks for parking, they need to stick to the suburbs. The inner city is not the suburbs and we should not make it like them.

About money - if that's really a problem, they need to find a way to make the surface lot 1) as small as possible, and 2) as hidden by landscaping as possible. Anything less should be unacceptable, like the Montgomery Plaza disaster.

And parking lots can look good if designed with the appropriate landscaping.

The best that can be done with parking lots and landscaping is to hide them - they never look good. If surface parking is unavoidable, it should be hidden as much as possible.

And, without the dense mass transit that will be decades or longer to get there, if there is no cheap parking, you won't get enough people into the area to keep the businesses open.

We can't just say "forget it, we need parking lots" even if there's not effective transit there. If we ruin it now, there won't be a point for transit later.

There is plenty of parking across the street at Montgomery Plaza that will never, ever be filled by the businesses that inhabit it. That should be the alternative, not destroying more of the neighborhood for surface lots.

Again, if surface parking is unavoidable, it should be small and well hidden. If it's just an ocean stuck in the middle of everything, it should be considered unacceptable (as I consider Montgomery Plaza). It is time Fort Worth started expecting higher standards from inner city development.

[TxConnie]

Just curious-- Does anyone have an update on this? They took down all of the FC signs that were on the building/property.

[jefffwd]

Just curious-- Does anyone have an update on this? They took down all of the FC signs that were on the building/property.

Looks like it is still on http://www.fellowshi...h.com/fortworth but perhaps someone made them an offer?

TAD still shows they own it http://www.tad.org/D...u...14LKM06KP, but since it is in Linwood perhaps Incap bought it???

[PLS]

this past weekend we attended a service at fellowship in grapevine and they said it was opening soon. their fundraising campaign for 2007 apparently went really well - their stated goal was $5 million above and beyond "normal giving" and their actual was $6.7 or so. no inside info, other than what was annouced during the service.

[TxConnie]

I heard it was still a go- but the removal of signs was weird to me.

[fwfrog]

The first service is Easter Sunday...
http://xrl.us/fellowship

[PLS]

The first service is Easter Sunday...
http://xrl.us/fellowship

oh yeah, forgot to mention that a few weeks ago. what frog said, easter weekend its open.