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#1 DrkLts

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 03:15 AM


Kimbell Art Museum may add second building
By TIM MADIGAN
STAR-TELEGRAM STAFF WRITER

On Jan. 22, 1990, in an auditorium at Rockefeller Center in New York, Kimbell Art Museum director Ted Pillsbury unveiled his ambitious blueprint for museum expansion to a decidedly skeptical audience. The widow of legendary architect Louis Kahn was there that day, as were many of Kahn’s colleagues and admirers, who generally agreed that adding new wings to the Kimbell building in Fort Worth, one of Kahn’s signature achievements, was tantamount to adding brush strokes to a Picasso.

That night in New York, Kahn’s daughter, Sue Ann, was the first person to rise in opposition.
The Kimbell scuttled the expansion project a few weeks later, but the uproar of 16 years ago has never been forgotten. Which explains the impact of another January night, just two months ago, when Sue Kahn sat down to dinner with Kay and Ben Fortson, president and vice president of the Kimbell board, and Timothy Potts, who succeeded Pillsbury as the museum’s director in 1998. At a corner table in Fort Worth’s elegant La Piazza restaurant, the longtime acquaintances caught up on careers, children and grandchildren. Then Kay Fortson turned to Louis Kahn’s daughter and asked a question that sent the conversation in a potentially historic direction.
“Sue,” Kay Fortson asked, “how would you feel about us putting up a new building across the road from the Kimbell?”
Her enthusiastic reply set off a wave of inspiration around the table. By the time the party of six (including Mark Gunderson and his wife, Daphne, both local architects) dispersed into the Texas winter night, each had the sense a threshold had been crossed: Fort Worth’s marquee cultural institution was ready to build a distinctive companion to Louis Kahn’s masterpiece in the heart of the Cultural District.
“I can’t deny it was a magical thing,” Kay Fortson says recently of the dinner. “It was in the sense that it opened my eyes and Ben’s eyes that it was time to talk about this again. It was the right time to bring up the discussion of a new building. ... It was important to me to have Sue Kahn’s blessing.”
Kimbell officials caution that the building idea remains in the preliminary stages. The full museum board has yet to be consulted and must approve the project. But there is palpable momentum for moving forward with an endeavor that would surely attract the attention of the international art community and inspire design proposals from the world’s finest architects.

It also would go far toward restoring cultural primacy to the place that some art observers say has gone relatively quiet in the past several years and that has been shouldered from the limelight by high-profile building projects of its museum neighbors. That slip in the public’s imagination was reflected in a January market survey conducted by the Star-Telegram. Although the Kimbell remains among the best known and most frequently visited museums in North Texas, Dallas-Fort Worth residents were 50 percent less likely to attend the Kimbell than they were a decade ago, the survey said.
“I suspect that [the Kimbell’s] been doing a steady stream of things and that some of them are probably terrific,” says Michael Kimmelman, chief art critic of The New York Times.
“But I think it’s fair to say that the general sense of the place is that the temperature has been lowered.”
That would certainly change as the Kimbell goes forward with its plans, which include razing the nondescript brick building at the corner of Darnell and Arch Adams streets. (The museum foundation bought the building and 5.8 acres surrounding it from the Fort Worth school district in 1998 for $5 million. It’s currently used as a Kimbell auditorium.) No one can predict the sort of structure that might take its place, but Potts says he envisions a unique, spacious venue for traveling exhibitions. The new building will probably display part of the Kimbell’s vaunted permanent collection as well and contain a small bookstore and coffee bar.
It would also complete a quartet of world-class museum buildings in the Cultural District, including the original Kimbell and the massive new Modern Art Museum of Fort Worth, which sits just across Arch Adams, a few hundred yards away. When the Modern opened in December 2002, the $65 million concrete and aluminum structure designed by Japanese architect Tadao Ando earned rave reviews from international critics. Just west, up a hill and across an expanse of lawn from the Kimbell and the Modern, sits the Amon Carter Museum, which was designed by another legendary American architect, Philip Johnson. The Carter completed its own heralded expansion in late 2001.

Faced with chronic space constraints in the Kahn building, Kimbell officials have for years contemplated building a second venue, and by the time of the recent dinner at La Piazza, several key factors had fallen into place. Chief among them was rising oil and gas prices, which have helped swell the Kimbell endowment to more than $300 million. While the Kimbell will explore a range of financing options, museum money also would be used. After recent investment gains, the Kimbell could absorb building costs and still have the money to continue pursuing top exhibitions and new masterpieces.

But the building plans needed a trigger, and the dinner with Sue Kahn provided it. (In an e-mail to the Star-Telegram, Kahn said she was “pleased to be included in what might be described as a significant discussion of the Kimbell’s history. In a congenial conversation about options for the Kimbell’s growth, the Fortsons reiterated that they would not in any way alter my father’s building as part of any future plans.”)
“I think if there was something that happened at that dinner, it was that switch that got flicked,” Potts says. “I think it helped Kay and Ben enormously to hear this from [Sue], and to know that the other pieces were in place. So it was like, ‘Wouldn’t it be exciting to have the opportunity to be the ones to take that leap forward and do something which adds dramatically to the Kimbell, the area and to the arts in this city?”

An either/or dilemma
_________________

From the time he arrived in Fort Worth, Timothy Potts has wanted to construct a second building across the street from the Kimbell, if only because the building’s modest size prevents it from accommodating both traveling exhibitions and the museum’s permanent collection at the same time. But as the 1990 uproar illustrated, the Kahn building was sacrosanct because of its architectural distinction, and expanding it was never really an option.

With its cycloid vault ceilings, revolutionary use of natural light and its intimacy, the Kimbell was widely viewed as a work of art unto itself — “America’s finest small museum,” as one prominent art critic dubbed it in the mid-’80s. But in what has become a common scenario over the years, Kimbell visitors from other parts of the country or the world have shown up at the museum hoping to enjoy its renowned masterpieces by Fra Angelico, Caravaggio, Rubens or Rembrandt, only to discover some of the permanent collection had been put away to make space for an exhibition.

Traveling shows are crucial to an institution’s mission and long-term vitality, Potts says. But displaying and interpreting the permanent collection is closer to the soul of the Kimbell — even at the cost of diminished attendance, Potts says. Last year, the director decided to cancel a exhibition of Old Master paintings to allow more time for the permanent collection to hang in the galleries. The museum’s visibility dipped.
“No matter how well you market [the permanent collection], people know it,” says Potts. “They’re only going to come back so often to a collection they’ve seen before. They want something new. My frustration is that we have to do an either/or rather than a both. Every other museum with a collection of this quality has the option of doing both.”
Another factor contributing to the museum’s diminished profile was the frenetic pace Pillsbury set during his tenure. A burst of important acquisitions by Pillsbury and the Kimbell board in the 1980s was followed in 1994 by the blockbuster “Impressionist Masterpieces from the Barnes Collection" -- more than 80 paintings by Cezanne, Matisse, Renoir and Picasso that belonged to a private collection in Pennsylvania. The Barnes exhibit drew a record 430,000 visitors.
The Kimbell’s international reputation soared under Pillsbury, but his tenure was as tempestuous as it was successful. He resigned abruptly in 1998, and Kay Fortson acknowledges that there was a sense of weariness at the museum in the aftermath.
“We wanted to catch our breath ... and needed a quieter period,” she says.
Coincidentally or not, Potts, the Australian-born and Oxford-educated archaeologist hired as the new director, was as reserved as Pillsbury was voluble. While Pillsbury was also a tireless marketer and media darling, Potts is widely perceived to have a prickly relationship with the press.
Some art observers say that difference in leadership styles has contributed to the Kimbell’s recent quietude. One of them, Riley Nail, a prominent North Texas art collector and patron of the Kimbell since it opened, said he thinks the museum has “become rather bland” under Potts.
“It stopped just sort of becoming an institution,” Nail said. “Instead of becoming one of the museums that you mentioned with a host of the top museums, the Met, [MOMA], the Frick and so forth, the Kimbell was almost there, but didn’t quite make it because it lost its firepower. It suddenly wasn’t on the tip of anybody’s tongue anymore.”
According to the Star-Telegram market survey, which mirrored the methodology of others done for the Kimbell in the 1990s, public awareness of the museum has dropped from 100 percent at the time of the Barnes exhibit to 83 percent today. The survey also indicated significant drops in the percentage of the North Texas market that had visited the Kimbell, (78 percent in 1994, 59 percent in January) and respondents’ intent to attend the museum (80 percent in 1994, 29 percent in January). The Star-Telegram survey had a margin of error of 10 percentage points. But part of the Kimbell’s declining profile was also inevitable, considering the growth that has gone on around it in recent years. In many ways, Fort Worth’s premier cultural institution seemed to graciously cede the spotlight to its neighbors during the building projects of the Amon Carter and Modern museums. Peter Marzio, director of the Musuem of Fine Arts, Houston, compares developments in Fort Worth to those of New York City, where the expansion of the Museum of Modern Art has overshadowed the encyclopedic Metropolitan Museum of Art, however temporarily.
“Does that mean MOMA has a higher profile than the Met? Does that mean there’s something wrong with the Met? I don’t think so,” Marzio says. “Once it settles out, the Met will still be a great encyclopedic museum, and MOMA will still be a great museum of modern art.
“I don’t think that [the Kimbell’s] standards of quality for their art purchases has dropped one notch,” Marzio adds. “When you look at what they’re purchasing, it’s been pretty awesome. If that hasn’t caught the public’s imagination, the question would be, ‘Why?’ It might be because the two capital improvement projects in Fort Worth are easier to promote, press-wise, and represent a destination for people. They are new environments as opposed to an environment people think they know, which is the Kimbell.”
Kimbell officials generally resist suggestions that the museum’s profile has slipped, but acknowledge that the rejuvenation of other arts institutions has altered the cultural landscape.
“What I think is now we have the Modern museum, and it’s great, and we’ve got the Carter, and on the other side [of the Cultural District] the Cowgirl Hall of Fame,” says Kay Fortson, who has been president of the Kimbell board since the mid-’70s. “It’s not just the Kimbell on the hill right now. I think it’s a complex, and I think there’s room for everybody. I still don’t see, even after all the talking, that there has been any slipping with the museum. ... I’ll do what I can to keep it from going down on my watch.”

An unbreakable bond
_________________

If all goes as planned, Kay Fortson will oversee the search for the right architect and the right design for the companion to the Louis Kahn icon. Given the Kimbell’s existing profile, the process of adding to its campus with a second distinctive building figures to be one of Fort Worth’s most important cultural developments in decades.
But until recently many in Fort Worth, including Kay and Ben Fortson themselves, believed that project would be led by the next generation of Kimbell leaders — the Fortsons’ grown children, who also sit on the museum board.

“I was thinking the other day, ‘Why are Ben and I the ones to build this building and not pass it on to the next generation?’ ” Kay Fortson said. “The thought came to me that we have a bond with that Lou Kahn building that nobody else has.”

In fact, the recent night in the Fort Worth restaurant was reminiscent of another watershed moment in Kimbell history, this one in 1965, when the Fortsons, then a young couple, sat in a room at the Fort Worth Club late into the night, persuading Richard Fargo Brown to leave his leadership post at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art and become the Kimbell’s first director. It was Brown who, with the Fortsons, went on to collaborate with Kahn on the Kimbell building that opened in 1972.

“I have to admit, after dinner, as Kay and I walked out of La Piazza, my perspective on a building project had changed,” Ben Fortson said recently. “Financially, we’re better able to support a building project. That eases my concerns that exhibitions and acquistions would not suffer. Then to hear that Sue Kahn liked what she was hearing, and getting caught up in the conversation that night, I just had the confidence that we could do it.

“Something just worked.”


#2 safly

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 04:35 PM

So I guess if Sue Kahn asks certain folks to build a new 50 story condo tower in DTFW, then it will MAGICALLY happen! smile.gif

This story makes me gag.

QUOTE
and contain a small bookstore and coffee bar.


Hmmm? I wonder who that may be. dry.gif

Sooooo, who picked up the tab that night? huh.gif
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#3 JulieM

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 02:23 PM

I'm kind of confused as to why this would make you gag. If the Fortson's want to increase the size of the museum, what's the problem? It's their money to do what they see fit.

#4 safly

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 02:57 PM

I guess so, if it is THEIR money. I'mmmm soorrrrry.

The "story writer" just paints some gossipy WHO'sWHO in the irrelevant FW Museum World, all collaborating at some Italian eatery. Like Corleone meeting with the 5-heads of the FW Museum World. Ooooh, I wish I was there! Like a FLY on the wall.

Gimme a break. Who cares, just get it built already, irregardless of WHO'S BLESSINGS we MUST ALL KNOW was given. Enough with the short story anecdotal READER's DIGEST version C#@P.

QUOTE
Although the Kimbell remains among the best known and most frequently visited museums in North Texas, Dallas-Fort Worth residents were 50 percent less likely to attend the Kimbell than they were a decade ago, the survey said.


For what it's WORTH. I did attend an exhibit there back in '01 (Dynasty Tour). Haven't been back since, but wouldn't mind if anything interesting arose.

*FWForum Tour anybody?

Meet in DTFW, take the bus (what is it the 7 line now). Eat at the Modern or a nearby eatery.
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#5 Sam Stone

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 05:53 PM

Jeez, safly, just because you object to how the story was written doesn't mean that it's still not a big deal. For a little historical perspective, here's a 1990 article from the New York Times:

The Kimbell Decides Its Building Is a Treasure to Be Cherished
By PAUL GOLDBERGER (NYT) 853 words
Published: February 28, 1990

LEAD: The Kimbell Art Museum in Fort Worth, responding to an outpouring of criticism of the additions it planned to its celebrated building by the architect Louis I. Kahn, announced yesterday that it had postponed the new structures indefinitely.

The Kimbell Art Museum in Fort Worth, responding to an outpouring of criticism of the additions it planned to its celebrated building by the architect Louis I. Kahn, announced yesterday that it had postponed the new structures indefinitely.

The board of the Kimbell Art Foundation, which oversees the museum, voted unanimously on Monday in Fort Worth to put aside the plans by the architect Romaldo Giurgola, who was a longtime colleague of Kahn's at the University of Pennsylvania. Although the board's announcement called the decision an indefinite postponement, Dr. Edmund P. Pillsbury, the museum's director, said that the board had rejected alternative ideas for expansion, and that the museum would continue to operate within the space of the Kahn building.

The decision brings to a halt one of the nation's most intense architectural controversies. When the museum announced its expansion plan last July, it set off a storm of criticism, not unlike the attacks directed at the proposal by the architect Michael Graves to expand the Whitney Museum's Marcel Breuer-designed building in New York, a project whose future remains unresolved.

In some ways the criticism of the Kimbell plan was even harsher than that directed at the Whitney, since the small, palazzolike Kimbell, which opened in 1972, is widely considered to be one of the masterworks of 20th-century architecture in America. It is the exemplary work by Kahn, who died in 1974, the building that more clearly than any other embodies the quiet, almost mystical power of the architect's designs. Within the Kimbell's long, vaulted sections of travertine and concrete, galleries softly washed by the Texas sun, are spaces of both repose and awe.

Homage Through Replication

The quality of the museum's diverse collection, which has been improved significantly through acquisitions of important Old Masters made by Dr. Pillsbury, as well as the allure of Kahn's architecture have made the Kimbell a point of cultural pilgrimage in Texas, and the board has been considering expanding the building for some time. Mr. Giurgola, after studying several alternatives, recommended building precise replications of Kahn's vaults at either end of the long building. The literal reproduction of Kahn's design was defended by the architect and Dr. Pillsbury as an homage to the original architect, and attacked by many of the project's critics as vulgar mimicry that would blur the distinction between Kahn's masterwork and the later additions.

In January, Mr. Giurgola and Dr. Pillsbury traveled to New York to argue in favor of the scheme at a symposium sponsored by the Architectural League. But at the sold-out public event, which attracted the architects I. M. Pei and Robert A. M. Stern, the architectural historian Vincent Scully and the architect's widow, Esther Kahn, among others, no one except Mr. Giurgola and Dr. Pillsbury spoke in favor of the scheme, and several architects and critics denounced it.

Pulling Back From Expanding

Both in New York and at other public presentations Dr. Pillsbury suggested that the critics of the addition were placing the values of Kahn's architecture above those of the Kimbell's art collection, and argued that the Kimbell absolutely needed to expand to serve the public. The board's announcement yesterday and Dr. Pillsbury's own public statement after the board changed its mind about the project took a different tack, however, and reaffirmed the museum's desire to fulfill its objectives within the Kahn building.

''The Kimbell Art Museum remains steadfast in its commitment to serve creatively the needs of its collections and the community in the existing facility,'' Kay Fortson, the president of the board, said yesterday. ''The public's overwhelming interest in the architectural and programmatic issues raised by the possible expansion has been deeply gratifying,'' she concluded.

Unacceptable Alternatives

Numerous critics of the Giurgola proposal suggested that the museum consider building underground additions or additions slightly removed from the original building and distinct in appearance from it. Dr. Pillsbury emphatically rejected those suggestions yesterday. ''A separate building or an underground annex would have disrupted the organic integrity of Louis Kahn's design for a fully-integrated art museum,'' the director said in a prepared statement. He would not comment further. ''In light of the mission this particular museum has always had, it does not have to be a large building, and so this is absolutely the right decision,'' Mr. Scully, the architectural historian, said yesterday.

Sue Ann Kahn, the architect's daughter, said yesterday that she was ''very grateful to the board and Edmund Pillsbury for having the courage to change their plans.

''My father always considered himself an artist first and an architect second, and this decision vindicates that - I now know that the Kimbell board understands that this masterwork of architecture is also a masterwork of art, to be preserved and cherished as any other work of art in the museum's care.''

#6 safly

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 11:53 PM

So because they traveled to an NYC symposium the month before, this makes the NY Times.

Must have been a sloooooow news day.

QUOTE
''My father always considered himself an artist first and an architect second, and this decision vindicates that - I now know that the Kimbell board understands that this masterwork of architecture is also a masterwork of art, to be preserved and cherished as any other work of art in the museum's care.''


I personally think that the Land Mark Tower is STILL a wonderful piece of Modern Art, worthy of preserving now more than ever.



NOT! dry.gif

QUOTE
The literal reproduction of Kahn's design was defended by the architect and Dr. Pillsbury as an homage to the original architect, and attacked by many of the project's critics as vulgar mimicry that would blur the distinction between Kahn's masterwork and the later additions.


FOR SHAME! ohmy.gif

Like that famous 80's band POHHLEEEZZZZZ (POLICE)! Get over yourself with the artisitic vernacular grandstanding.
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#7 cberen1

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 09:22 AM

QUOTE(safly @ Mar 8 2006, 01:53 AM) View Post

So because they traveled to an NYC symposium the month before, this makes the NY Times.

Must have been a sloooooow news day.

QUOTE
''My father always considered himself an artist first and an architect second, and this decision vindicates that - I now know that the Kimbell board understands that this masterwork of architecture is also a masterwork of art, to be preserved and cherished as any other work of art in the museum's care.''


I personally think that the Land Mark Tower is STILL a wonderful piece of Modern Art, worthy of preserving now more than ever.



NOT! dry.gif

QUOTE
The literal reproduction of Kahn's design was defended by the architect and Dr. Pillsbury as an homage to the original architect, and attacked by many of the project's critics as vulgar mimicry that would blur the distinction between Kahn's masterwork and the later additions.


FOR SHAME! ohmy.gif

Like that famous 80's band POHHLEEEZZZZZ (POLICE)! Get over yourself with the artisitic vernacular grandstanding.



Let it go, man. The Kimbell is an architectural gem that any major city would be thrilled to have. I dare say that even the mighty San Antonio would be happy to have it. Why do you feel the need to run it down? Is the collection at the Kimbell not impressive enough for you? Which of their masterworks disappoints you the most? Is is just the building itself? Maybe if it was southwestern themed?


#8 tamtagon

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 10:10 AM

I think this is as big a deal as the new facility for the Modern Art Museum a couple years ago.

For me, the only downside of a visit to view the Kimbell collection has been knowing so much good stuff was not on display.

#9 Sam Stone

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 12:12 PM

Here's a question, though: What will they call it? The Kimbell II? Kimbell Annex? Kimbell^2? Old Kimbell/New Kimbell?

#10 Yossarian

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 01:08 PM

Sam:

The MFA in Houston completed an accross the street annex a few years ago and has plans for a second annex. The first was named after Audrey Jones Beck, a major Houston arts patron, thus renaming the orriginal building after Caroline Weiss Law (whose will provided over $100 mil to the museum). My guess is that the Kimbell will do something similar, probably naming the annex after Kay and Ben.

#11 safly

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE(cberen1 @ Mar 8 2006, 09:22 AM) View Post

QUOTE(safly @ Mar 8 2006, 01:53 AM) View Post

So because they traveled to an NYC symposium the month before, this makes the NY Times.

Must have been a sloooooow news day.

QUOTE
''My father always considered himself an artist first and an architect second, and this decision vindicates that - I now know that the Kimbell board understands that this masterwork of architecture is also a masterwork of art, to be preserved and cherished as any other work of art in the museum's care.''


I personally think that the Land Mark Tower is STILL a wonderful piece of Modern Art, worthy of preserving now more than ever.



NOT! dry.gif

QUOTE
The literal reproduction of Kahn's design was defended by the architect and Dr. Pillsbury as an homage to the original architect, and attacked by many of the project's critics as vulgar mimicry that would blur the distinction between Kahn's masterwork and the later additions.


FOR SHAME! ohmy.gif

Like that famous 80's band POHHLEEEZZZZZ (POLICE)! Get over yourself with the artisitic vernacular grandstanding.



Let it go, man. The Kimbell is an architectural gem that any major city would be thrilled to have. I dare say that even the mighty San Antonio would be happy to have it. Why do you feel the need to run it down? Is the collection at the Kimbell not impressive enough for you? Which of their masterworks disappoints you the most? Is is just the building itself? Maybe if it was southwestern themed?


(As Farmer Ted would say) CHILL.

Oh for sure San Antonioans would LOVE to have the Kimbell or Kimball in SA, to add to their collection. It's just that it never really struck me as the "epicenter" of the DFW art exhibit world. I'm just not even sure that I went to that one before, to be honestly. It was a Dynasty exhibit back in '01, that I believe I saw in LA or IL earlier that year, maybe it was an Art Appreciation class at SC(How Ironic, hee hee). Shows you how much it was engrained into my memory. What does it look like? Is it the one that is along 7th street aka Camp Bowie with the rosetta granite looking exterior? Or is it the typical white house parthenon looking structure just west of the Modern.

QUOTE
For what it's WORTH. I did attend an exhibit there back in '01 (Dynasty Tour). Haven't been back since, but wouldn't mind if anything interesting arose.

*FWForum Tour anybody?

Meet in DTFW, take the bus (what is it the 7 line now). Eat at the Modern or a nearby eatery.


Now does that sound like I am knocking it? I'm up for a FWForum filedtrip. Brown baggin it and all. biggrin.gif
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#12 pelligrini

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 05:03 PM

Most of the time when I go to the Kimbell I spend more time looking at the building than I do looking at the displays. No matter how many times I've seen it, I'm always impressed.

Erik France


#13 ghughes

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 05:31 PM

I hope the new space makes a strong statement and would be judged as great on its own. While I think the Kimball is wonderful, the only way to pay proper homage is to design and build something that creates a three building collection of fine architecture in close proximity. The worst thing would be for the new building to be intentionally subservient or subdued. Kahn's work can handle being part of a two building set, but only if the second building is of the same caliber.

#14 ramjet

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 07:39 PM

QUOTE(safly @ Mar 8 2006, 05:30 PM) View Post

QUOTE(cberen1 @ Mar 8 2006, 09:22 AM) View Post

QUOTE(safly @ Mar 8 2006, 01:53 AM) View Post

So because they traveled to an NYC symposium the month before, this makes the NY Times.

Must have been a sloooooow news day.

QUOTE
''My father always considered himself an artist first and an architect second, and this decision vindicates that - I now know that the Kimbell board understands that this masterwork of architecture is also a masterwork of art, to be preserved and cherished as any other work of art in the museum's care.''


I personally think that the Land Mark Tower is STILL a wonderful piece of Modern Art, worthy of preserving now more than ever.



NOT! dry.gif

QUOTE
The literal reproduction of Kahn's design was defended by the architect and Dr. Pillsbury as an homage to the original architect, and attacked by many of the project's critics as vulgar mimicry that would blur the distinction between Kahn's masterwork and the later additions.


FOR SHAME! ohmy.gif

Like that famous 80's band POHHLEEEZZZZZ (POLICE)! Get over yourself with the artisitic vernacular grandstanding.



Let it go, man. The Kimbell is an architectural gem that any major city would be thrilled to have. I dare say that even the mighty San Antonio would be happy to have it. Why do you feel the need to run it down? Is the collection at the Kimbell not impressive enough for you? Which of their masterworks disappoints you the most? Is is just the building itself? Maybe if it was southwestern themed?


(As Farmer Ted would say) CHILL.

Oh for sure San Antonioans would LOVE to have the Kimbell or Kimball in SA, to add to their collection. It's just that it never really struck me as the "epicenter" of the DFW art exhibit world. I'm just not even sure that I went to that one before, to be honestly. It was a Dynasty exhibit back in '01, that I believe I saw in LA or IL earlier that year, maybe it was an Art Appreciation class at SC(How Ironic, hee hee). Shows you how much it was engrained into my memory. What does it look like? Is it the one that is along 7th street aka Camp Bowie with the rosetta granite looking exterior? Or is it the typical white house parthenon looking structure just west of the Modern.

QUOTE
For what it's WORTH. I did attend an exhibit there back in '01 (Dynasty Tour). Haven't been back since, but wouldn't mind if anything interesting arose.

*FWForum Tour anybody?

Meet in DTFW, take the bus (what is it the 7 line now). Eat at the Modern or a nearby eatery.


Now does that sound like I am knocking it? I'm up for a FWForum filedtrip. Brown baggin it and all. biggrin.gif


It's Kimbell by the way. And I hope you are just kidding. If you don't understand what a world class treasure and how magnificent the Kimbell is, both the building and its art collection, then you have no business on this or any other forum that discusses architecture or a city's cultural assets. As far as I am concerned, and there are many around the world that would agree, the Kimbell is beyond criticism by amateurs like, perhaps, you? If you are kidding, then disregard my rant. If you are not, then.....


#15 safly

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 12:15 AM

Look Ramjet, I am an amateur critic, I have never even tried to present myself as otherwise. BUT, I am also a ticket paying customer who like many that I am sure goes through those Kimball doors, can agree with or disagree with Kahn's work.

I'm sorry, I just got back from reading up on the building in their website. Decent photos, I believe I have been at that particular museum. I AM STILL NOT AS IMPRESSED AS YOU ARE!

Travertine walls, skylights, light wells, odd reflecting ponds and 30 ft. tall arch ways don't really get my attention. I've seen this particular design before, at a university or school campus somewhere.

Sorry it had to come to this. The cool looking lady sculpture is ATTRACTIVE and has always been rather mysterious to me.

Wood floors with the use of natural light is very pleasing though. Am curious when this became an award winning work. AIA finest at one point. Are there some politics in winning those deals?

Look, if I REALLY REALLY REALLY LOVE this piece of work as much as everyone else here, then I would have to LOVE every work I set my eyes on.


Here.
IPB Image


And Even More talk.
UNNECESSARY PORCHES?

Edited by John T Roberts, 09 March 2006 - 08:09 PM.

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#16 Yossarian

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 08:57 AM

Hey safly, you have a point. On the other hand, the others do as well. Let me give you a suggestion: call the museum and inquire whether they would consider giving you a tour - of the building, not the art. Most who grew up in FW took that tour in the seventies, whether as founding members of the museum or on school trips. The subtleties of just how clever and brilliant Kahn ultilized materials and played with light is something that I think you would find interesting and revealing - if I remember correctly, the construction elements are not as smple as they appear to the 'naked' eye.

I took the mentioned tour with a Phd in architecture history while in college and found it fascinating. Another aspect that I think you would find interesting is just how the final design was 'paired' down.

In the end, I suspect that a number of the other posters who have responded to you have opinions founded somewhat on what they remember from either the tours they may have taken long ago or some presentation on the construction history. Whereas some may just parrot what the 'critics' have said, I suspect that that is not the case on this board.

Then again, just thinking - you should just buy a membership (there are great benefits) which would probably make it easier to secure the 'building' tour. One of the benefits is invitations to pre-opening showings of traveling exhibits where you can enjoy a little wine with your art.

#17 SurplusPopulation

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 08:59 AM

OK, OK, OK!... WAIT A MINUTE!

I realize that you are probably trying to do nothing more than start a ridiculous fight just for the sake of the obsurdity of it all, which I truly pray is what you are doing, and I am playing right into your hands by immediately posting a defensive, indignant reply, but...

If you are just playing games with all of us loyal FtWers, fine. If you are seriously taking a stand on this, then we all at last have some context with which to judge all of your other overly-critical remarks on the topic of Fort Worth.

Whichever the case may be, I for one have decided that your posts, until something changes these circumstances, will be viewed only as comic relief and not the slap in the face they have seemed like before.

If you won't allow yourself to recognize the Kimbell (sorry for the Kimball everyone, you would think 27 years of seeing it would stick in my mind better) for its rightful standing, then you will never be truly honest about FtW and her virtues.

As more time goes by my curiosity for meeting you at one of these forum meetings grows. You are definitely one of the more interesting characters on here, and I hope, in the event we get to meet, you are in the mood for some good spirited, possibly a little heated debate. I am looking forward to it.

#18 fwpcman

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 10:21 AM

I hope that the two structures, very unique and different from each other will be connected via an underground walkway / gallery.

#19 JulieM

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 12:22 PM

That is the way that the MFAH is done. You park on one block and use a tunnel to go to the first building and then another tunnel under the street for the next building. I assume the expansion they are planning there will do the same, though I'm not sure where they will put it unless it is where the parking garage is.

Once again I'm confused Safly. You say the story makes you gag, then you clarify you post by saying it's the way that the story was written and then you go on to backtrack and go on to criticize the Kimbell architecture and it's art. What would be the difference whether they sat around the board table and discussed this or going out to dinner to discuss this?

One of the reasons my heart melted when I met my husband the architect was his photo albums. He has traveled all over the U.S. taking pictures of famous buildings and buildings that interested him....residential and commercial. Even though he at that time lived in Dallas, he had been to Fort Worth many times and his collections of photos contained more pictures from Fort Worth (including many of the Kimbell) than from Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, New Orleans, Chicago, Miami, Washington DC, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Denver, etc.

My FIL is also an architect. When here for the FW Bowl, we drove by the Kimbell on the way there and on the way back from the game at his request. They extended their vacation up here by an additional two days to visit the museums including the Kimbell. On New Years he pulled me aside and said that in all the years I'd gushed about FW and it's culture he had never gotten it, but that now he did. That made my year.

#20 Sam Stone

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 01:13 PM

I once met someone from Greece (plenty of fine architecture there) who told me that seeing the Kimbell on a trip in highschool inspired him to become an architect.

#21 safly

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 06:34 PM

Surplus Pop, crtique as you may. I am open for any discussion on the topics, I love hearing people out on their POV. I nor anyone else is stopping anyone else from doing the same.

In my POV, there REALLY is nothing to debate about!

As for Julie, it really doesn't make a hill o beans difference. Wonderful insight though with your husband and in laws.

Maybe I should take them up on a membership and take that tour everyone is gushing about. biggrin.gif

BTW, are there ANY "professional architectural critics" in this FORUM? dry.gif
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#22 hannerhan

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 12:04 PM

Safly, 80% of what you do on this board is put some derrogatory comment out there re: whatever the post is about, and then start arguing from there. Like you're just throwing $%&# against the wall, and seeing what will stick. This time, you're original comment was 'completely moronic', instead of the usual 'mostly moronic', and when people called you out on it, you end up back-tracking and making it humorous. I for one, and I know there are many others on this board that do the same, just skip over your postings and move on. I'm not sure why I bothered to read this one, but once again my impressions of you have not been changed. If you don't have something half-way intelligent to say, then why don't you do something productive instead of spinning your BS on this board?

If I had to pick a favorite of "Safly's most ignorant postings", I would have a hard time choosing a specific one, but it would definitely be, like the first one on this thread, one of his "powers that be", "man keeping us down" rants against people that have money and influence and are willing to do some good with it. Just get a life.

#23 safly

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 03:22 PM

Hello Hanner. First time reader of your "stuff". (Washing eyes out with CLOROX!)
OK. Wow, I'm in a state of SHOCK here. And those were'nt RANTS, there was some shred of evidence to that.

I respect everyone elses view on the Kimbell as I would expect eveyone else here views mine. YOU can back track all YOU want, and YOU can make opinionating comments about POSTERS instead of a building/landmark.

And BTW, the article still reeked of weekend GOSSIP in the air. It was like a "Sex in the City" format where all the girls meet up at a bistro somewhere and give up the goods.

So with that being said, I still stand behind my POV, and I will take Yoss' advice and walk through a tour with a guide. Perhaps I might "see the light". There is ALWAYS a different perspective to be had in life. This example does not fall short of that belief. Again, I was always up for a FWForumers field trip (a show of support), but now I'd rather RETHINK that notion and show up to the Kimbell solo, sans an egg dousing. biggrin.gif

For what it's WORTH (FWIW), I'm still committed to this particular Forum. But not yet COMMITTED. wacko.gif

Oh, and THANK YOU for supporting that other 20% of my posts. Enjoy your weekend and keep this Forum FOLKSY!

A little more FWIW. This topic has about 341 viewers total to date, the WA topic has about 12,599 viewers total to date. Cheers! cool.gif

Thanks for the editing job John, for whatever you did?
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#24 FWillustrator

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 08:44 AM

QUOTE(safly @ Mar 9 2006, 12:15 AM) View Post

...Travertine walls, skylights, light wells, odd reflecting ponds and 30 ft. tall arch ways don't really get my attention...


Safly,

Your exactly right in that Kahn's work doesn't immediately grab one's attention...in fact that's one of the beauties of his work, and one of the reasons he is so lauded. The point is the Kimbell is something at one moment monumental, and the next moment subdued if not downright sublime. Louis Kahn has made a lasting place to warehouse beauties which doesn't go through any architectural heroics to detract from them.

You wouldn't know it just by the first glance (again because it is so intentionally subdued), but the Kimbell is really an engineering marvel. We're so used to seeing works like Calatrava, where the structural feats are so obvious, that it's easy to miss what the Kimbell has to offer. I have no hesitation in postulating that Calatrava undoubtedly has great respect for the structural design of the Kimbell.

If ever it were possible to create an architecture that was "timeless," Kahn is possibly the only architect in our modern history to ever achieve it.

#25 cjyoung

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 11:11 AM

I would agree with Safly regarding the FWST article, but I would disagree with him on the greatness of the Kimbell.

I was one of the thousands of kids who took FWISD field trips to the Kimbell. I always found the Kimbell amazing despite the fact that as black kid from Stop Six, I didn't know a Picasso from a Thomas Kincaide (Yuk!). wacko.gif

Seeing exhibits at the Met, NGA, and Brooklyn Museum of Art wub.gif have made my appreciation of the Kimbell that much greater.


#26 Jack White

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 06:37 PM

QUOTE(fwpcman @ Mar 9 2006, 10:21 AM) View Post

I hope that the two structures, very unique and different from each other will be connected via an underground walkway / gallery.


My first thought was that a tunnel CONNECTION between the old and
new buildings was ESSENTIAL. I also think that the design should be
daring but CLASSIC, like Kahn was in his design. They should not
try to "out-modern" The Modern, but come up with a bold traditional
design, drawing on classical concepts instead of "modern" trends.
I could even envision a taller structure echoing Kahn's vaulted roofs
for a familial resemblance. Also, the Kimbell is our TRADITIONAL
museum of art, so the building should reflect a traditional elegance
and not try to compete with another "modern" design. Many of the
great world art museums are "traditional" in design. In short,
the two buildings should COMPLIMENT each other, not COMPETE.
Maybe John should open this subject up to concept sketches.

I am an artist, not an architect...but I can visualize a very
striking concept using a series of stacked blocks with Kahn's
unique vault roofs. It would start out nearest the Kimbell with
a single story...then move east to a set-back block that is two
stories, then to a third setback that is three stories, backed up to
University Drive. Each setback would have a sculpture garden on
top among the vaulted roofs, and the third floor would feature
offices and a great hall with east windows facing the downtown skyline,
and west windows facing the other museums and WRMC buildings, a
perfect place for entertaining and exhibit openings. Hey, I
am getting excited about my design. How would YOU design the
"annex"?

Jack White

#27 cberen1

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 09:07 AM

QUOTE(Jack White @ Mar 13 2006, 08:37 PM) View Post


How would YOU design the
"annex"?

Jack White


I like the fact that both the Modern and the Kimbell are built of materials that seem permanent. Concrete and stone creates a feeling of stability and permanence that I really like. I'd expect both strucutres to still be here in 100 years. They look sturdy. I'd like to see that continued in the third building, perhaps in a different soft shade. The Kimbell is a creamy white, the Modern is a soft gray. Maybe pink granite? I don't know. It might not be neutral enough.

I'd also like to see something with the same grandure as the front of Bass Hall. I would want people to stand in awe before they ever get into the building. The kind of place where you could sit outside and eat your lunch on a park bench just staring at the building, or walk all the way around it trying to take it all in. Obviously it couldn't be as big, but I love the Victoria & Albert Museum in London.

#28 pelligrini

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 09:40 AM

QUOTE(Jack White @ Mar 13 2006, 06:37 PM) View Post

but I can visualize a very striking concept using a series of stacked blocks with Kahn's unique vault roofs.


IMHO I don't think the new structure should incorporate any of the elements of the Kimbell, especially the vaults. I doubt any new structure could use them as well. Repeating them again would detract from the original structure. I wouldn't mind seeing the same materials used, but the vaults should never be repeated.

Actually they're not a true vault, they are constructed more like beams. All the vaults are sliced down the middle to provide the natural light for the gallery. The non-vault condition is again echoed in the band of glazing between the infill at the ends and the concrete, post-tension, vaults.

Erik France


#29 safly

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 06:24 PM

I think it should appear just exactly like the Kimbell, but to a 2/3's scale. And it should be built out as a DISECTED form of the Kimbell. Spread out like an open accordian. Very bold, as if to reflect the greatness of Kahn's work "one piece at a time". Which is the mantra for any greatly appreciated artist.

The pieces would be attached by a series of stainles steel frames and 2" thick green haze tinted glass.

It would present the observer with a before peek into the existing after. Even though it would be built AFTER the BEFORE. A form which will entice us with Kahn's thought and vision for the Kimbell.

These form pieces can be built in an escalated fashion too. But I would place the tallest part on the most western half. This would allow the higher situated observer to see over the lower pieces and on towards DTFW. You could even have the last three pieces be built partially and wholly INTO the Earth. As if to see Kahn's vision SPRING OUT of the Earth, like the "EXACT" thought and vision springing from his mind. His EARTHLY abstract cognitive vision.

Just a thought I came up with.

Again, I am not an architect nor a professional architectual critic. sleep.gif
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#30 Art Cooler

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Posted 01 April 2006 - 07:19 AM

Wow. Interesting S-T piece and the ensuing responses to this thread.

As for the article, the main gist I got from it indicates something I know first-hand...museums are run by people. Yeah, it looks like the Kimbell folks were sweating over the thoughts of Sue Kahn, but can one understand the situation. Being contemplated is an addition to what many consider an architectural masterpiece by Ms. Kahn's father. I'm sure a similar debate raged when an addition was planned for Wright's Solomon R. Guggenheim museum in NYC, and perhaps to a certain extent the Carter addition (I wasn't yet there when that was going on) due to Philip Johnson's work (likely mitigated by Johnson also doing the addition).

My own feelings about the Kimbell...it's a marvelous building I've appreciated since my teen years when my folks would haul me over from Dallas for a day of cultural immersion. During that time of my life I felt strongly about architecture, particulary modern architecture (the Internationalists, Bauhaus, etc), finding much of that work cold and austere. The Kimbell did not give me that impression. Despite its incredibly solid appearance and hard materials, it is of a scale that does not leave one feeling small and cold. The interplay of light with and against the materials is one among many things that give the interior spaces vibrancy but does not overwhelm. Lighting a museum naturally is always a challenge due to concerns for protecting the collection from harsh elements. The cycloid vaults, slit on top to admit daylight, yet shielded by the inverted curving elements below the skylighting, allowing the filtered light to spill across the curve of the vault...just flat out wonderful.
I've viewed pics of other Kahn works and the Kimbell strikes me as his most inviting achievement.

I have no specific thoughts about the architectural composition of any proposed addition to the Kimbell, other than it should not overwhelm, not appear as an afterthought, to the main building. If Mr. Kahn were still with us I'm certain the task would not be as arduous for the museum. As it is, I wish the Kimbell board and staff the best...building programs are NEVER easy...a million and a half decisions to make in a relatively short span of time. The end product being what one has to live with...good or not so good.

The day after the Landmark Tower came down, my wife, her visiting old college friend, and I spent an afternoon at the Kimbell. It was raining steady and hard outside, a dreary gray day for the most part. After touring the Gaugin exhibit we took a break in the museum's restaurant. Sitting there refreshed us as we rested and spoke about the exhibit. After awhile our thoughts turned to the building itself. My wife and her friend kept going on how "at home" the place made them feel. Between my own thoughts of comparing the place to my own museum and wondering what "behind the scenes" life was like for the Kimbell crew, I agreed. I could've sat in that restaurant the rest of the day and felt right at home.

#31 tamtagon

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 09:15 PM

Anything new?

#32 RD Milhollin

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 11:03 PM

QUOTE(tamtagon @ Jul 24 2006, 10:15 PM) View Post

Anything new?


I took an afternoon off a couple of weeks ago and spent some time decompressing in the Kimbell viewing the permanant collection show. On the way out I asked the lady at the lower-level desk if there was any word on a design for the annex and she said no. But as sort of a consolation prize for asking she gave me a real nice post card with a Monet.

#33 tamtagon

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 07:33 PM

Any news?

#34 Sam Stone

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 10:06 AM

This is not first hand information and I've had to piece things together, but I think they could be getting Renzo Piano.

#35 mrowl

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 10:44 AM

yes, it is Piano

http://www.dallasnew...l.3549459c.html

Architect Renzo Piano will design an expansion of the Kimbell Art Museum in Fort Worth, the museum announced Thursday.

Mr. Piano is best known in North Texas for his design of the Nasher Sculpture Center in Dallas' Arts District, and has designed other prominent museums including the Pompidou Center in Paris and the Menil Collection in Houston.

In 1998 he won the Pritzker Prize, among the top honors in the architectural world.

#36 Sam Stone

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 12:38 PM

Who's your daddy? wink.gif

#37 Dallastar

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 01:22 PM

QUOTE(Sam Stone @ Apr 5 2007, 01:38 PM) View Post

Who's your daddy? wink.gif


?

#38 Sam Stone

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 01:31 PM

QUOTE(Dallastar @ Apr 5 2007, 03:22 PM) View Post

QUOTE(Sam Stone @ Apr 5 2007, 01:38 PM) View Post

Who's your daddy? wink.gif


?


Because I called it on March 8th. See my post from that date.

#39 Dallastar

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 02:13 PM

QUOTE(Sam Stone @ Apr 5 2007, 02:31 PM) View Post

QUOTE(Dallastar @ Apr 5 2007, 03:22 PM) View Post

QUOTE(Sam Stone @ Apr 5 2007, 01:38 PM) View Post

Who's your daddy? wink.gif


?


Because I called it on March 8th. See my post from that date.


Cool cool.gif !!

#40 mosteijn

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 04:09 PM

YES!!!! I love Renzo Piano! My favorite current architect by far! Whatever he designs for the Kimbell rest assured - it will be stunning. What a great marketing point for the Kimbell as well. One musuem designed by Piano AND Kahn? What a great asset for Fort Worth!

#41 safly

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 11:05 PM

"Applause, Applause, Applause!" -Pretty in Pink

To Stone and the Kimbell, should be a fine addition.
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#42 Urbndwlr

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 03:12 PM

Why do you suppose they selected an architect this early in the process? By comparison, the Modern held a competition among a handfull of architects, culminating in a presentation by each and a selection of Mr. Ando. I'm not suggesting the Modern's approach would have been better for the Kimbell's annex, however I am curious why:

a) they selected Mr. Piano so early
B) they selected Mr. Piano

I suspect that his connection to Kahn was key. Also, I suspect that his extensive experience with museum design was very appealing as well. Certainly Piano is a low-risk selection - as a highly experienced, established architectural rock star.

I cannot wait to see renderings......

#43 cbellomy

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 03:20 PM

I guess I'm the only one here who thinks that there's zero chance that this results in something better than what we have already.


#44 cberen1

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 08:00 AM

QUOTE(cbellomy @ Apr 6 2007, 04:20 PM) View Post

I guess I'm the only one here who thinks that there's zero chance that this results in something better than what we have already.


I'm not sure that's the objective. The museum has a history of viewing the building as one of the works of art. It also has a history of seeking extreme diversity in its collection. I suspect that they simply want another excellent building that adds to the "collection". It doesn't have to surpass the Kahn building.

#45 cbellomy

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 09:40 AM

QUOTE(cberen1 @ Apr 7 2007, 09:00 AM) View Post

QUOTE(cbellomy @ Apr 6 2007, 04:20 PM) View Post

I guess I'm the only one here who thinks that there's zero chance that this results in something better than what we have already.


I'm not sure that's the objective. The museum has a history of viewing the building as one of the works of art. It also has a history of seeking extreme diversity in its collection. I suspect that they simply want another excellent building that adds to the "collection". It doesn't have to surpass the Kahn building.


I think the Kahn building depends on its surroundings to be what it is (if that makes sense, I'm on cold meds right now so please forgive). The trees, the open space, all of it is vital to the experience there. There's no way they can plop another structure on that lot and improve it, IMO. (Plus the preservationist in me thinks that this is a historical travesty.)

If the Kimbell had the midway area across Lancaster to work with, I'd be all for putting a second building over there.

#46 mosteijn

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 09:52 AM

But it's not being built on the same lot...it's being built on the lot accross Arch Adams that currently contains a parking lot and a small building. I don't really see how a parking lot adds much character to Kahn's masterpiece - nor how replacing the lot with a complementary masterpiece by Piano would be a detriment to the museum's surroundings.

#47 cbellomy

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 11:42 AM

Oh, I didn't know they were building it there. Nevermind!

--Emily Litella


#48 RD Milhollin

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 11:53 AM

Congratulations to the Kimbell Board on getting Piano to commit to this project. The surrounding buildings in the area will present quite a challenge to the architect. Will he choose to reflect the lines of the Kimbell in some way, will his design be sort of a bridge between the Kimbell and Modern, will it incorporate lines from the Carter, or even the Will Rogers buildings. Will he ignore the surrounding buildings and instead opt for a new signature structure depending on its own unique set of attributes? This might present sufficient pressure that the design that emerges becomes iconic in its own right, another masterpiece. Or not.

I agree that the landscaping is an integral part of the design of the Museum District. I especially appreciate the Great Lawn between the Carter and the Kimbell, and the forest of trees on the west side of the Kimbell. I feel sure that landscape will feature prominently in the new building's design as well.

#49 LiveattheOasis

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 03:54 PM

So, those who remember the beginning of the Modern to completion, how long until we should see this come to fruition?

#50 tamtagon

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 07:02 PM

QUOTE(mrowl @ Apr 5 2007, 12:44 PM) View Post

Architect Renzo Piano will design an expansion of the Kimbell Art Museum in Fort Worth, the museum announced Thursday.


Dude, sweet.




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