90 replies to this topic

[Austin55]

Amtrak federal funding cut in half in new federal budget.

https://www.google.c...er-trump-budget

[Austin55]

No surprise but the new budget proposes cuts again.

https://usa.streetsb...V2ODbsUt8w5RkJY

[renamerusk]

Presidential Budgets never have the last word.  Lets hope that history is prologue.

 

The New Congress is keen to begin infrastructure  and will restore the cuts in its budget appropriations.  When air service is negatively impacted, like all developed countries, a functional intercity ground transportation system becomes an imperative.

[Austin55]

Today is the Heartland Flyer's 20th birthday

 

http://www.purcellre...fa64a01701.html

[Austin55]

The Texas Eagle has been cut to 3x per week. 

 

https://www.expressn...medium=referral
 

[Austin55]

Here's a website with some information on studies/proposals for D-FW to Meridian MS.

 

https://www.i-20corridorcouncil.com/

[Electricron]

Here's a website with some information on studies/proposals for D-FW to Meridian MS.

 

https://www.i-20corridorcouncil.com/

TXDOT study dated October 2017, Amtrak study dated August 2015, it has taken you a while to find this.

New administration, new promises, old studies, no results to date; just the same old story.

 

Let's review what happen to trains during the last stimulus package from FY 2009.

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - WikipediaTransportation

 

Total: $48.1 billion, some in the form of Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery (TIGER) Grants

• $27.5 billion for highway and bridge construction projects
• $8 billion for intercity passenger rail projects and rail congestion grants, with priority for high-speed rail
• $6.9 billion for new equipment for public transportation projects (Federal Transit Administration)
• $1.5 billion for national surface transportation discretionary grants
• $1.3 billion for Amtrak
• $1.1 billion in grants for airport improvements
• $750 million for the construction of new public rail transportation systems and other fixed guideway systems.
• $750 million for the maintenance of existing public transportation systems
• $200 million for FAA upgrades to air traffic control centers and towers, facilities, and equipment
• $100 million in grants for improvements to domestic shipyards

 

$8 Billion for High Speed Rail. Where was that $8 Billion ultimately spent?

In $Millions

Chicago Hub/Ohio 2617

California 2343

Florida 1250

Southeast 620

Pacific Northwest 598

Northern New England 160

Empire 152

Northeast 112

Keystone 27

 

Congress allocated an additional $2.5 billion in the FY 2010 budget

In $Millions

California 898

Florida 800

Chicago Hub 428

Connecticut 121

Southeast 45

 

So, in two years that the Democrats had control of both the Congress and the President, they gave these totals for High Speed Rail.

California $3.241 Billion

Chicago Hub $3.045 Billion

Florida $2.050 Billion

Southeast $665 Million

Pacific Northwest $598 Million

Northern New England $160 Million

Empire (New York) $152 Million

Connecticut $121 Million

Northeast Corridor (south of NYC) $112 Million

Keystone (Pennsylvania) $27 Million

 

After 10 years of planning, engineering, and construction, trains going as fast or faster than 110 mph today are on the Keystone, Connecticut. and Northeast Corridors. Note, they were already doing so before 2009. Note, the US Government considers 110 mph  and faster speeds High Speed Rail. Of the $10.5 Billion set aside for High Speed Rail, only $260 Million was spent effectively, as promised. An additional $3.241 Billion was given to California to help build its High Speed Rail project, none of which is in service yet, and only 171 miles of phase 1's 520 miles is under construction. The total CHSR system is promised to be around 800 miles. 

 

One could easily state that $10.240 Billion was wasted 11 years ago. If you wish to credit the CHSR allocation as not being wasted, $7 Billion was wasted 11 years ago. 

Math = 10,500 - 260 = 10,240

Math = 10,500 - 3,241 - 260 = 6,999

 

Where did that extra $7 Billion go? It certainly was not spent on High Speed Rail.

 

And I have not look at where all the highway allocations went yet, somehow I feels just as much percentage of the total package was wasted. Throwing money at things  indiscriminately does not fix problems. 

[Stadtplan]

It is getting hard to keep up with the latest Amtrak high speed rail Dream Map.

https://www.cnn.com/...ture/index.html

 

This one is dated 2013 but was circulating on social media a few weeks ago as if it were new...I'm guessing more updates to follow soon.


Here's another map by Amtrak but seems more general services...

[elpingüino]

The first dream map was just that, a dream drawn up by a civilian graphic designer. It was never an official plan. It's still fun to think about, but the distinction is important when comparing the two.
https://www.vox.com/...-meme-buttigieg

[Stadtplan]

The first dream map was just that, a dream drawn up by a civilian graphic designer. It was never an official plan. It's still fun to think about, but the distinction is important when comparing the two.
https://www.vox.com/...-meme-buttigieg

After watching several youtubers travel via Amtrak on normal trains I came to the conclusion it is not for everyone but thinking about doing 220 mph to Chicago is actually starting to have some appeal to me. 

 

I took the DB ICE train from Brussels to Berlin and it was quite enjoyable.  First class upgrade was only €10-20.  Flying would have been quicker but not in a hurry plus getting from one of two airports in Berlin to where we were staying is a headache and requires about 3 or 4 bus transfers vs just taking the S-Bahn from the Hauptbahnhof to our stop and walking 5 blocks through a peaceful neighborhood.

[Electricron]

I’ll agree that the first map was a dream map of what if’s, but the second map seems to include all the corridors that the states or private enterprise have done FRA feasibility studies in the last 10 years or so prior to getting formal FRA Tier 1 and 2 EIS studies. Some of the lines have never started the Tier 1 study, and some have finished the Tier 2 study and are actually ready for bulldozers and construction, like Texas Central. 
Much of the difficulties before was finding federal funding for the individual projects, but Biden’s proposed $2+ trillion infrastructure program has $80 billion set aside for intercity rail projects. That is enough money to finish all the Tier 1 and 2 studies for every one, but may or may not be enough money to build every one anew. It will be interesting to see how much actually gets built 10 years from now.

[Electricron]

After watching several youtubers travel via Amtrak on normal trains I came to the conclusion it is not for everyone but thinking about doing 220 mph to Chicago is actually starting to have some appeal to me. 

 

I took the DB ICE train from Brussels to Berlin and it was quite enjoyable.  First class upgrade was only €10-20.  Flying would have been quicker but not in a hurry plus getting from one of two airports in Berlin to where we were staying is a headache and requires about 3 or 4 bus transfers vs just taking the S-Bahn from the Hauptbahnhof to our stop and walking 5 blocks through a peaceful neighborhood.

 

Brussels to Berlin is 475 miles, you can drive it in 7.5 hours or ride on a train 6.5 hours. The train average speed is 73 mph.

Math = 475 / 6.5 = 73.077

Fort Worth to Chicago by the shortest route is 900 miles. A train averaging 73 mph would take 13.5 hours. 
Math = 990 / 73 = 13.561

do you still wish to ride the train?

By the way, you can ride the Texas Eagle from Fort Worth to Chicago today. 1022 miles and 23.75 hours averaging 43 mph.

Math = 1022 / 23.75 = 43.031

 

American Airlines from DFW to Chicago flys in less than 2.5 hours.

[Stadtplan]

After watching several youtubers travel via Amtrak on normal trains I came to the conclusion it is not for everyone but thinking about doing 220 mph to Chicago is actually starting to have some appeal to me. 
 
I took the DB ICE train from Brussels to Berlin and it was quite enjoyable.  First class upgrade was only 10-20.  Flying would have been quicker but not in a hurry plus getting from one of two airports in Berlin to where we were staying is a headache and requires about 3 or 4 bus transfers vs just taking the S-Bahn from the Hauptbahnhof to our stop and walking 5 blocks through a peaceful neighborhood.
 

Brussels to Berlin is 475 miles, you can drive it in 7.5 hours or ride on a train 6.5 hours. The train average speed is 73 mph.
Math = 475 / 6.5 = 73.077
Fort Worth to Chicago by the shortest route is 900 miles. A train averaging 73 mph would take 13.5 hours. 
Math = 990 / 73 = 13.561
do you still wish to ride the train?
By the way, you can ride the Texas Eagle from Fort Worth to Chicago today. 1022 miles and 23.75 hours averaging 43 mph.
Math = 1022 / 23.75 = 43.031
 
American Airlines from DFW to Chicago flys in less than 2.5 hours.

Fort Worth to Chicago on a high speed train would probably be a one time experience only.

Berlin to Brussels on ICE was straight through only with a handful of very brief stops and no transfers. I want to say top speed was around 270-280kmph. You are right it took about 7 hours but we had about 20 minutes in Koln to see the Kolner Dom from the platform. Plane would have saved us 4 or 5 hours but we liked the train.

We actually started our train adventure at Heathrow took the underground to St Pancras and then took the Euostar through the Chunnel to Brussels (not all in one day). I would like to try Swiss Rail someday.

[Electricron]

Fort Worth to Chicago on a high speed train would probably be a one time experience only.

 

Berlin to Brussels on ICE was straight through only with a handful of very brief stops and no transfers. I want to say top speed was around 270-280kmph. You are right it took about 7 hours but we had about 20 minutes in Koln to see the Kolner Dom from the platform. Plane would have saved us 4 or 5 hours but we liked the train.

We actually started our train adventure at Heathrow took the underground to St Pancras and then took the Euostar through the Chunnel to Brussels (not all in one day). I would like to try Swiss Rail someday.

Over distances that is why I always discuss average speeds with passenger trains because often the maximum speed does not reflect the reality of the entire experience.  Even Acela trains reach 150 mph max speeds, but only in and immediately around Rhode Island, but only reaches 135 mph max speeds elsewhere along the NEC. It averages around 69 mph along the entire 453 mile long corridor from Boston to DC at 6 hours and 38 minutes on the train.  

Math = 453 miles / 6.6 hours = 68.63 mph average.

Still much better than the average 43 mph of the Texas Eagle.

 

I have rode both the train and plane to and from Chicago multiple times. The key difference being the plane for business and the train for vacations. I enjoy seeing America up close, not from 35 thousand feet above. Never-the-less, I am aware that most Americans will have a hard time losing 20 hours of their vacation getting there and another 20 hours getting back. 

 

Without looking at the data, I expect the market share between trains and planes to be significantly different between Brussels and Koln, Koln and Berlin, and Brussels to Berlin. At 6.5 hours the Brussels to Berlin train is well over the 3 hour sweet spot where HSR dominates over planes - but Brussels to Koln and Koln to Berlin falls within. 

 

What I am suggesting is that HSR between DFW and Chicago is much too far, like 10 hours too far, for HSR to be competitive with planes.  Unlike the 90 minute non-stop ride Texas Central promises for Dallas to Houston.

Very expensive to build HSR should only be built where it can make the trip within 3 hours, imho.

[Stadtplan]

 

Fort Worth to Chicago on a high speed train would probably be a one time experience only.

 

Berlin to Brussels on ICE was straight through only with a handful of very brief stops and no transfers. I want to say top speed was around 270-280kmph. You are right it took about 7 hours but we had about 20 minutes in Koln to see the Kolner Dom from the platform. Plane would have saved us 4 or 5 hours but we liked the train.

We actually started our train adventure at Heathrow took the underground to St Pancras and then took the Euostar through the Chunnel to Brussels (not all in one day). I would like to try Swiss Rail someday.

Over distances that is why I always discuss average speeds with passenger trains because often the maximum speed does not reflect the reality of the entire experience.  Even Acela trains reach 150 mph max speeds, but only in and immediately around Rhode Island, but only reaches 135 mph max speeds elsewhere along the NEC. It averages around 69 mph along the entire 453 mile long corridor from Boston to DC at 6 hours and 38 minutes on the train.  

Math = 453 miles / 6.6 hours = 68.63 mph average.

Still much better than the average 43 mph of the Texas Eagle.

 

I have rode both the train and plane to and from Chicago multiple times. The key difference being the plane for business and the train for vacations. I enjoy seeing America up close, not from 35 thousand feet above. Never-the-less, I am aware that most Americans will have a hard time losing 20 hours of their vacation getting there and another 20 hours getting back. 

 

 

Jeb Brooks did a good video on DC to NYC plane vs train.

 

 

From other cross country Amtrak videos, what sort of concerns me is the amount of delays.  I know Amtrak owns some track along the NEC but shares a lot of track with freight lines.  A buddy from work volunteered to help drive a U-haul out to Pennsylvania for an in-law and they generously offered to pay his return travel.  He gets out there and they bought him an Amtrak ticket back to Dallas!    There were major delays along the way it ended up taking the better part of 3-days, his cell phone died, at one point he was on a bus for part of the trip.  His customers were freaking out because they couldn't get a hold of him.  He said never again and it was his mistake for accepting to use that ticket in the first place.  I looked on Google maps and I'm not even sure they operate that route or what his exact starting point was.  Perhaps connection through Chicago.  I'll need to ask next time I see him what the details were.

[Electricron]

Jeb Brooks did a good video on DC to NYC plane vs train.

 

From other cross country Amtrak videos, what sort of concerns me is the amount of delays.  I know Amtrak owns some track along the NEC but shares a lot of track with freight lines.  A buddy from work volunteered to help drive a U-haul out to Pennsylvania for an in-law and they generously offered to pay his return travel.  He gets out there and they bought him an Amtrak ticket back to Dallas!    There were major delays along the way it ended up taking the better part of 3-days, his cell phone died, at one point he was on a bus for part of the trip.  His customers were freaking out because they couldn't get a hold of him.  He said never again and it was his mistake for accepting to use that ticket in the first place.  I looked on Google maps and I'm not even sure they operate that route or what his exact starting point was.  Perhaps connection through Chicago.  I'll need to ask next time I see him what the details were.

 

Change the distance traveled to Boston and DC and the plane wins the market share. 

How do I know? The answer comes from data found on this web page that supports passenger trains politically.

1.pdf (narprail.org)

Trips by length, 2019 Acela Express

0- 99 mi 14.6%

100- 199 mi 26.9%

200- 299 mi 56.6%

300- 399 mi 1.2%

400+ mi 0.6%

Note the steep decline over 300 miles and the even steeper decline over 400 miles. FYI, Boston to DC is around 453 miles. 

Also note where 56% riding the train travel, in the 200-299 mile range, matches the 250 miles between NYC and DC.

Acela with an average speed around 69 mph, travels the 225 miles in about 3.25 hours, just slightly above the 3 hour sweet spot I keep harping about. 

Amtrak has been wanting to spend $billions to get that elapse time below 3 hours, and I expect Biden will fund it. The B&P tunnels under Baltimore and the Gateway tunnels under the Hudson River will get them there.

To get down to 3 hours, the average speed for the Acela trains needs to be at least 75 mph, just 6 mph more average speed over 225 miles.

 

The distance between city pairs that the regional trains will run between should determine what the average speed needs to be, if your goal is set for 1, 2, 3, or 4 hours if elapse time.  

 

What if, from the previous posts on this thread, that we wanted to go the ~990 miles between Dallas and Chicago, what should the average speed be?

3 hours = average 330 mph

4 hours = average 247 mph

5 hours = average 198 mph

6 hours = average 165 mph

7 hours = average 141 mph

8 hours = average 123 mph

9 hours = average 110 mph

10 hours = average 99 mph

Eurostar between Paris and London initially averaged 106 mph, although since moving to St Pancras Station the average speed has climbed to over 120 mph. So we're looking at 8 hours minimum with HSR trains between Dallas and Chicago, and more likely 10 hours or so. 

 

Passengers paying almost airline fare prices to ride HSR trains expect much less elapse time than that, more akin to the total time of driving from their initial point of departure to the airport, flying between airports, and driving from the airport to their final destination. AA flys from DFW to O'Hare in less than 2.5 hours. 

 

If the HSR will not attract higher market share between these two cities than the slow train, a HSR line should not be built between them, imho. There will always be passengers who will ride the train for days at a time, but just a few will. These passengers are not paying the higher HSR fares, they are paying closer to what a Greyhound bus would charge. 

[Austin55]

A flurry of articles on the possibility of a Heartland Flyer extension

 

https://www.publicra...kansas#stream/0

 

https://www.nbcdfw.c...quency/2652283/

 

https://www.ksn.com/...-meeting-today/

[rriojas71]

I would love the line if it would extend all the way to Kansas City

[renamerusk]

But it will by connecting to the SWC (Chicago-KC-ABQ-LA).

[rriojas71]

without having to switch trains is what I meant

[renamerusk]

In other words, an air-train.

[Electricron]

Interesting last line quote from the NBC-DFW link, 

"No representatives from Fort Worth or Dallas were in attendance, but several local leaders from Newton, Kansas and Oklahoma as well as Kansas and Oklahoman state senators did join the call."

 

The population of the entire state of Oklahoma is 3.9 million, Kansas is 2.9 million, a total of 6.8 million, while just the DFW metroplex is 6.8 million. When politicians for half the population being served by a new passenger train extension does not even care to show up for the press event launch seeking political support, that project just had a still born birth. 

 

Let's assume Oklahoma and Kansas can pull this extension off without any help from Texas, what would the train service look like? The Heartland Flyer averages 51 mph the 206 rail miles between OKC and FW taking 4 hours to travel that far. It is an additional 186 miles between OKC and Newton Kansas along I-35, at least an additional 3.65 hours averaging 51 mph. 

 

That means for the Heartland Flyer to reach Fort Worth when the Flyer present schedule arrives in Fort Worth around 12:25 pm, the Flyer would have to depart Newton around 4:30 am, with around 7 hours and 40 minutes trip time.  Since the Flyer is serviced during daylight hours in Fort Worth to save on labor costs, the train should arrive and depart Fort Worth with the present schedule. Therefore it will depart Fort Worth around 5:25 pm and arrive in Newton around 2 am.  We should take note when the Southwest Chief visits Newton as well, between 3 and 3:30 am as scheduled.

 

So it should work timing wise for making transfers to other trains in Newton and Fort Worth - if the trains ran on time. A gigantic big if.

 

Another slap in the face was Amtrak suggesting returning a day train between Dallas and Houston via Bryan-College Station on UP rails. A service Amtrak has initiated and cancelled at least twice in its' 50 years. Really? Do you expect Texas to fund this loosing train for you when private enterprise is about to build a true HSR train service because you failed in the past twice? The fact that no one showed up from the DFW area for this press launch shows how much DFW politicians believe Amtrak's word.

 

Past actions speak more than present day promises. Every time Amtrak kills a service somewhere else, it also looks at killing services in Texas. Before Senator KB  Hutchinson in the 1990s stepped up to the plate, the Texas Eagle would have joined the Sunset Limited with thrice a week services. I highly doubt Oklahoma and Texas would be subsiding their share of the Heartland Flyer to Fort Worth if the Texas Eagle had thrice a week services. Presently, while Amtrak is teasing Texans with a new Dallas to Houston service, they have cut both the Sightseer Lounge and full Dining cars from the Texas Eagle, substituting a single Cross Country Cafe (or Diner Lite) car in their places. Again, while they talk increasing rail services, their actions have been cutting services. And some wonder why no Texas politician attended their launch for these new services?

[Stadtplan]

Amtrak might add more than 50 new routes. But they still won't be faster than a car
By Matt McFarland, CNN Business
Updated 11:23 AM ET, Wed September 1, 2021

https://www.cnn.com/...ains/index.html

[Stadtplan]

For $399, Amtrak Will Let You Travel All Around the Country for a Month. Amtrak's USA Rail Pass gets you 10 rides within a 30-day period, and it's $100 off right now. Good through Tuesday 3/29.

https://www.thrillis...-pass-deal-2022

[redblock]

Amtrak is backing applications by TxDOT and other states for planning grants from the FRA Corridor program.

Fort Worth would be directly involved with most of the new services.

https://www.texasrai...corridor-trains

[Stadtplan]

Amtrak is backing applications by TAROT and other states for planning grants from the FRA Corridor program.

Fort Worth would be directly involved with most of the new services.

https://www.texasrai...corridor-trains

This is interesting:

[elpingüino]

Amtrak is seeking federal funding for a project that would extend the DFW-East Texas line to Atlanta. https://www.news-jou...4a35e8aab8.html

[RD Milhollin]

Amtrak is seeking federal funding for a project that would extend the DFW-East Texas line to Atlanta. https://www.news-jou...4a35e8aab8.html

That route should be the mainline running E-W along the Gulf south of the US. Passenger Rail, and Potential high capacity/high speed trains should be considered critical infrastructure as defined by DHS Federal Emergency Management Criteria (and therefore subject to additional funding). The existing/temporarily abandoned coastal route is highly vulnerable to seasonal storm closures, and occasionally is completely taken out of service by major storms, as has been the case for 5+ years... Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, Pensacola, etc. are best served by spurs running off a more secured and strengthened high-speed route running from Fort Worth to Atlanta, with spurs running off from each hub to other geographical destinations. The Fort Worth end should have H-S connections to Houston via Dallas and Waco-Austin-San Antonio-Monterrey, and traditional (for now) AMTRAK service through Abilene to either or both El Paso and Albuquerque, and then on to Tucson-Phoenix-LA or DSAN, and Flagstaff-Vegas-LA. Try to picture the number of short-haul flights between city pairs within the "sweet spot" distance for H-S rail and you can pretty easily see where inefficient air routes could be economically replaced by High-Speed rail. The Fort Worth to Atlanta corridor proposed is really a no-brainer.

[Austin55]

The Federal Corridor ID program has awarded funding to a few projects with direct impact on Fort Worth/DFW:

 

 

https://railroads.do...mmaries-Map.pdf

 

 

Fort Worth to Houston High-Speed Rail Corridor (Up to $500,000)  North Central Texas Council of Governments  The proposed corridor would connect Fort Worth, Dallas, and Houston, TX, with a new high- speed passenger rail service. The proposed corridor would provide new service on a new alignment, with station stops in Fort Worth, Arlington, Dallas, Brazos Valley, and Houston. The corridor sponsor would enter Step 1 of the program to develop a scope, schedule, and cost estimate for preparing, completing, or documenting its service development plan. 

 

 

Amtrak Texas High-Speed Rail Corridor (Up to $500,000)  Amtrak  The proposed corridor would connect Dallas and Houston, TX, with a new, dedicated and gradeseparated high-speed passenger rail service. The proposed corridor would provide new service on a new alignment, with station stops in Dallas, Brazos Valley, and Houston. The corridor sponsor would enter Step 1 of the program to develop a scope, schedule, and cost estimate for preparing, completing, or documenting its service development plan.

 

 

New Conventional Rail

Texas Triangle: Dallas-Fort Worth-Houston Intercity Passenger Rail Corridor (Up to $500,000)  Texas Department of Transportation The proposed corridor would connect Fort Worth, Dallas, and Houston, TX, with a new conventional intercity passenger rail service over an existing alignment over which Amtrak discontinued service (between Dallas and Houston) in 1995. The proposed corridor would have additional station stops in Corsicana, Hearne, College Station, and Navasota, TX. The corridor sponsor would enter Step 1 of the program to develop a scope, schedule, and cost estimate for preparing, completing, or documenting its service development plan. 

 

Additionally, there was also funds awarded to study a Heartland Flyer Extension to Newton Kansas, which could enhance connections to the midwest via the existing Southwest Chief.

 

 

Heartland Flyer Extension (Up to $500,000)  Kansas Department of Transportation  The proposed corridor would connect the existing Heartland Flyer intercity passenger rail service between Fort Worth, TX, and Oklahoma City, OK, with an extension north to Wichita and then Newton, KS. The proposed corridor would include new station stops in Edmond, Perry, and Ponca City, OK, and Arkansas City, Wichita, and Newton, KS. The corridor sponsor would enter Step 1 of the program to develop a scope, schedule, and cost estimate for preparing, completing, or documenting its service development plan.

[Stadtplan]

Hi speed rail with stops in Fort Worth, Arlington, Dallas.

I wonder what the estimated travel time from Fort Worth to Dallas would be?

[JBB]

I bet the travel time will be within a couple of minutes of the TRE.  With a stop in Arlington, there's no way they'll gain that much of a speed advantage.  I don't understand why there's an Oprah approach to high speed rail stations in this area.  " You all get a station!"

[roverone]

It always seems ridiculous to propose "High-Speed Rail" with so many stops -- this is surely just a game to get support from a broader area of politicians.

 

At best we end up with very expensive "tram" to take us to and from the point of actual high speed travel that has the advantage of not requiring us to transfer.

 

I'm sure all of this is very expensive, but I don't have an idea of the ratio of expense between the trains themselves that are high-speed capable, and the track of high enough quality to allow high-speed travel.  Perhaps some money could be saved on the track part between Dallas and Fort Worth recognizing it will never have the chance to comfortably actually get up to speed and back down on that leg.

 

As much as I might dream of some innovative solution that could have passenger cabin capsules that could be preloaded with people, loaded on to a normal speed carrier for the trip to Dallas with quick turnaround because the passengers have already strolled in and gotten situated with the capsule in a loading dock like a cargo container or the trailer of an 18-wheeler, and then in Dallas a transfer that to a high-speed carrier for the trip to Houston, I know the complexity and weight / energy efficiency make something like this little more than something that a kid would come up with playing with legos.

 

So many times projects like this seem to come from a place of someone wanting to build something, and then trying to be creative about how there would be enough demand to make it something financially viable and genuinely competitive in time and money with flying and renting a car or just driving.  I guess the hope is like building extra highway lanes and relies on induced demand.

[txbornviking]

a HSR line between Dallas and Fort Worth isn't designed to link Dallas and Fort Worth but rather to ensure Fort Worth is included in a larger (and hopefully eventually growing) network rather than being left behind.

 

Just as the 25mile (18min) Tokyo to Yokohama link line isn't designed to connect these two destinations but rather ensure more total feeder connections are available.

 

Even if Fort Worth to Dallas is 30-45min on the HSR link (and I'm guessing it'd come in at 20-30min), it still makes Fort Worth to Houston an ~2hr, one seat ride, which would be quite attractive to many.

 

Including Arlington/Stadium/Entertainment district too, would create a much larger potential draw area for games, events, concerts, etc.

[Electricron]

For $399, Amtrak Will Let You Travel All Around the Country for a Month. Amtrak's USA Rail Pass gets you 10 rides within a 30-day period, and it's $100 off right now. Good through Tuesday 3/29.

https://www.thrillis...-pass-deal-2022

30 days in a "coach seat" is not my ideal way to travel. 

10 rides in 30 days....

That's one ride every 3 days (72 hours). 

Let's propose a round trip around the western half of the USA

Ride 1 Dallas to San Antonio, spend two nights in a San Antonio hotel

Ride 2 San Antonio to Tucson,  one nights on the train in a coach seat and two nights in a Tucson hotel

Ride 3 Tucson to Los Angeles, one night on the train and two nights in Los Angeles

Ride 4 Los Angles to Emeryville, spend two nights in a San Francisco Bay hotel

Ride 5 Emeryville to Portland or Seattle, one night on the train, two nights in a hotel(*)

Ride 6 Portland or Seattle to St.Paul, two nights on the train, one night in a Minneapolis-St.Paul hotel

Ride 7 St. Paul to Chicago, three nights in a Chicago hotel

Ride 8 Chicago to St. Louis, three nights in St. Louis hotel

Ride 9 St. Louis to Dallas, one night on the train, you are home

Ride 10 (*) A- You have optional chocies, you could add a day train between Portland and Seattle and add another 2-3 night hotel 

B, You could add another stop along the way like Little Rock or El Paso or Fargo, and add another 2-3 night hotel. 

 

But realize every night on the train you will be trying to sleep in a reclining coach chair with 60 other passengers.

I picked cities spaced one night on the train, except on the Empire Builder between the west coast city (Portland or Seattle) and St. Paul,

Additionally, the Sunset Limited has thrice a week service, any stop you make on that train to visit a city and with a hotel stay, your next train west is two to three days away. On all the other trains, you could lengthen any station stop with a prolong hotel stay, or shorten the station stop and catch the train the very next day. You might even be able to transfer to the next train on the day of arrival. I used three night per train in my itinerary to make the three day or nights between rides average (10 rides over 30 days).

[Doohickie]

60 other passengers.

Doubtful.  Very doubtful.  When was the last time you saw a train, any train, in the US full to capacity?

[JBB]

But realize every night on the train you will be trying to sleep in a reclining coach chair with 60 other passengers.

Sharing a chair with 60 other passengers is Spirit airlines level of travel.

[Austin55]

FRA is doing a new long distance service survey. A number of the routes in the study go through DFW.

 

PDF Warning: https://fralongdista...3_Optimized.pdf

 

 

Routes that include DFW,

 

San Antonio to Minneapolis via DFW, with shortened/new connections to Tulsa and Kansas City

Houston to Denver via DFW, with new connections to Amarillo and Trinidad CO

DFW to Miami via Marshal and New Orleans

DFW to Atlanta via Jacok and Birmingham

DFW to New York via OKC, Tulsa and St. Louis

DFW to San Francisco via Midland, El Paso and Phoenix. 

[rriojas71]

That is really cool.  Looks like a potential opportunity to travel to some different areas of the US via rail.  Would love to see this happen.

[Electricron]

FRA is doing a new long distance service survey. A number of the routes in the study go through DFW.

Routes that include DFW,

 

San Antonio to Minneapolis via DFW, with shortened/new connections to Tulsa and Kansas City

Houston to Denver via DFW, with new connections to Amarillo and Trinidad CO

DFW to Miami via Marshal and New Orleans

DFW to Atlanta via Jacok and Birmingham

DFW to New York via OKC, Tulsa and St. Louis

DFW to San Francisco via Midland, El Paso and Phoenix. 

Note, this was Amtrak's initial report of a 2021 law passed by Congress and signed by Amtrak Joe  for "restoration" of past Amtrak long distance trains. 

Amtrak killed all of them in the past for either poor ridership or lack of equipment to run these trains. Unless Congress provides more funding every year in the future to Amtrak, these trains are just as dead as they are today.

[steave]

To be fair, there's been lots of population growth, and probably also changes to freight traffic flows, since the 1970s and 1980s when some of those routes were cut. Also a precipitous decline in intercity bus services too.

[Electricron]

To be fair, there's been lots of population growth, and probably also changes to freight traffic flows, since the 1970s and 1980s when some of those routes were cut. Also a precipitous decline in intercity bus services too.

Yes, there have been changes the last few decades. Still, the major problem was, and probably will still be, more funding.